jmich Posted August 22, 2013 Posted August 22, 2013 The situation is really confusing (even for me), so I'll try to explain... I've been engaged for about a year, and a few months back met a guy (online) that I was initially friends with, but we quickly developed feelings for each other. I decided to meet him, hoping that he'd be different in person, and I wouldn't like him as much, but I still did. He was pretty much exactly the same as he seemed before. We didn't have sex, or even kiss, but we did sleep together (I know, I know). Shortly after this, I started IC, because I thought I had a choice to make, when in reality, I think I was just feeling guilty. Around that time, I started couples counseling with my fiance (he hadn't wanted to at first, but agreed, once I started pulling away). Basically, I kind of regarded my friend as a boyfriend. I never told him that I would leave my fiance, but I told him that I might. When it all got too overwhelming, I broke up with him, and told him the relationship needed to fail or fly on its own, without his influence. It lasted about half a week, and we were almost back where we were before. Since then, the guilt's been eating me up, and we've been gradually pulling away from each other. Now, we talk about half as much, have canned the "one day" and romantic stuff, and we're focusing on being friends. I told him that we'll never get together, since I'm trying to fix my relationship. I have told him that once I've told my fiance, we probably can't talk anymore. I'm planning on discussing this - how and when to confess - with my counselor during my next session, in 2 weeks. I'll hate not being his friend anymore, but I guess that's how it started. I meant to ask whether there's any way we can remain friends, but I guess there isn't. I think it means something that losing him as a friend hurts so much (and it's really not about keeping him on the line, waiting for me). I'll miss being able to tell him things (things I don't feel comfortable telling my fiance or family members, even), and our conversations, since we have a lot of mutual interests. I'll also miss our rich emotional life, as weird as that sounds. My fiance isn't the best communicator and sometimes blindsides me with big announcements, so it's nice to experience someone that is in touch with their emotions and isn't afraid of them, and lets me know how he's feeling. It feels easy, and it's not scary at all. I guess I just wanted to get that off my chest. There's no chance we could be friends again, right? I feel like I'm just trying to savor the last days of being able to talk to him...
freestyle Posted August 22, 2013 Posted August 22, 2013 Sounds like you're not really ready to get married. Especially if you don't feel like you can confide in your fiance, then you're marrying the wrong man. Please think long and hard, and set your mind on fast-forward. And no, you can't unring that bell with your EA partner. It just doesn't work. I'd like to recommend reading "Not Just Friends" by Dr. Shirley Glass--it's very insightful, regarding emotional affairs. 3
GorillaTheater Posted August 22, 2013 Posted August 22, 2013 I have told him that once I've told my fiance, we probably can't talk anymore. That's a pretty likely scenario. Another one that's likely, and that I like better, is that your fiance dumps you, leaving you free to talk to whoever you want. 2
Author jmich Posted August 22, 2013 Author Posted August 22, 2013 I'd like to recommend reading "Not Just Friends" by Dr. Shirley Glass--it's very insightful, regarding emotional affairs. Thanks, I'll look into it. You're probably right. I know I'm not ready to get married, which is why we postponed. We're positive we're not going to do it until we're ready, and we're sure. That's a pretty likely scenario. Another one that's likely, and that I like better, is that your fiance dumps you, leaving you free to talk to whoever you want. I don't see why it matters so much to you. Just because you're a miserable prick doesn't mean you have to pile on. I already know what I did was wrong, and feel guilty. I can't control my emotions, only my actions, and that's what I'm doing now. Whether my fiance leaves me or not is up to him, NOT YOU, but I will be honest with him. All I can do now is tell him the truth and be the best I can be, for him.
Realist3 Posted August 22, 2013 Posted August 22, 2013 Just my 2 cents, I think your fiance is probably not the man for you. In terms of your EA partner it can be whatever you want it to be. The question is if you want it to be just friends can you keep it there? Many people that will respond are absolutists, and they will tell you that you can't possibly be friends with him. Like you said you can't control your emotions, but you can control your actions. Keep that in mind. 1
miguelcervantes Posted August 22, 2013 Posted August 22, 2013 Thanks, I'll look into it. You're probably right. I know I'm not ready to get married, which is why we postponed. We're positive we're not going to do it until we're ready, and we're sure. I don't see why it matters so much to you. Just because you're a miserable prick doesn't mean you have to pile on. I already know what I did was wrong, and feel guilty. I can't control my emotions, only my actions, and that's what I'm doing now. Whether my fiance leaves me or not is up to him, NOT YOU, but I will be honest with him. All I can do now is tell him the truth and be the best I can be, for him. Wow! Pretty aggressive. Let's see - you are engaged, got in touch with somebody you had the hots for, slept with him (albeit without kissing him or having sex), cannot stay away from him, dragged your fiancé into counselling, want to remain in contact with somebody that you have feelings for (just in case things don't work out with your fiancé) and you are upset when somebody says its best that you guys do not get married (and probably the way you arrive at that decision is you telling your fiancé the truth and him dumping you). For this you tell somebody who has probably gone through the pain of infidelity from somebody like you that HE is a prick ? Amazing! 2
dichotomy Posted August 22, 2013 Posted August 22, 2013 (edited) Just my 2 cents, I think your fiance is probably not the man for you. Yes - this. If your fiancé were the man for you and this time in your life - you would not even have considered gonig this far with OM. Unless of course exclusivity is not for you right now (maybe your to young, not ready, or not interested, or prefer someting different in relationships which is ok)- in which case forget the marriage thing for now. Edited August 22, 2013 by dichotomy 1
Spark1111 Posted August 22, 2013 Posted August 22, 2013 Thanks, I'll look into it. You're probably right. I know I'm not ready to get married, which is why we postponed. We're positive we're not going to do it until we're ready, and we're sure. I don't see why it matters so much to you. Just because you're a miserable prick doesn't mean you have to pile on. I already know what I did was wrong, and feel guilty. I can't control my emotions, only my actions, and that's what I'm doing now. Whether my fiance leaves me or not is up to him, NOT YOU, but I will be honest with him. All I can do now is tell him the truth and be the best I can be, for him. Oh my! is this how you react when challenged or presented with another scenario that could happen? The answer to your question is no, you cannot be friends with anyone you have romantic feelings for while you are engaged to marry another. how would YOU feel if you bf/fiancée did this to you? Would you be ok with it? You marry him and keeps in constant touch with a woman he has a connection with? They talk all about their feelings, hopes and dreams with one another, but he marries you anyhow cause your a good gal. As long as there is another person to share, connect, dream, with, your spouse cannot be your best friend, closest confidante, intimate partner. You won't invest in him 100 percent. 1
Author jmich Posted August 22, 2013 Author Posted August 22, 2013 (edited) Wow! Pretty aggressive. Let's see - you are engaged, got in touch with somebody you had the hots for, slept with him (albeit without kissing him or having sex), cannot stay away from him, dragged your fiancé into counselling, want to remain in contact with somebody that you have feelings for (just in case things don't work out with your fiancé) and you are upset when somebody says its best that you guys do not get married (and probably the way you arrive at that decision is you telling your fiancé the truth and him dumping you). For this you tell somebody who has probably gone through the pain of infidelity from somebody like you that HE is a prick ? Amazing! Yes, quite aggressive, actually. And yeah, he was a prick. Of course you can give any input you like... I was just trying to give the full situation, so people could answer my question with the most information possible. I did not ask what my fiance should do, or whether he should dump me, or what that man's opinion of my character is. Obviously, I already feel bad. Way to kick someone while she's down. I don't need to feel worse about myself. I need to figure out a way out of this, to move on. Also, we were in counseling for pre-existing issues. I brought it up before the other guy, but it didn't seem urgent (to me) until after I met him, and to my fiance until I started pulling away (which he says he noticed months ago, before I first spoke to the online guy). Oh my! is this how you react when challenged or presented with another scenario that could happen? The answer to your question is no, you cannot be friends with anyone you have romantic feelings for while you are engaged to marry another. how would YOU feel if you bf/fiancée did this to you? Would you be ok with it? You marry him and keeps in constant touch with a woman he has a connection with? They talk all about their feelings, hopes and dreams with one another, but he marries you anyhow cause your a good gal. As long as there is another person to share, connect, dream, with, your spouse cannot be your best friend, closest confidante, intimate partner. You won't invest in him 100 percent. This is what I keep thinking. How I would feel if the situation were reversed, and I know it would feel terrible, which is why that relationship has ended. It's up to my fiance how he'll take it. I find it kind of rich that on this website people with kids cheat on their spouses, multiple times or for several years, and are urged to come clean, end it, and reconcile, meanwhile I'm the scum of the earth for ending it and trying to move on as responsibly and considerately as I can. I'm just not trying to rush into anything. My mistakes are in the past, and not ongoing. This other guy IS a good friend, and it will hurt to lose him, but if my fiance and I decide to stay together and work it out, then that's the reality. But I'll still feel bad about it and miss him. And in case anyone's confused, I quite liked and appreciated freestyle's advice, and took exception only to the non-advice from gorillatheater. Edited August 22, 2013 by jmich
GorillaTheater Posted August 22, 2013 Posted August 22, 2013 (edited) Nevermind. It's not worth the bandwidth. Edited August 22, 2013 by GorillaTheater 3
Spark1111 Posted August 22, 2013 Posted August 22, 2013 Yes, quite aggressive, actually. And yeah, he was a prick. Of course you can give any input you like... I was just trying to give the full situation, so people could answer my question with the most information possible. I did not ask what my fiance should do, or whether he should dump me, or what that man's opinion of my character is. Obviously, I already feel bad. Way to kick someone while she's down. I don't need to feel worse about myself. I need to figure out a way out of this, to move on. Also, we were in counseling for pre-existing issues. I brought it up before the other guy, but it didn't seem urgent (to me) until after I met him, and to my fiance until I started pulling away (which he says he noticed months ago, before I first spoke to the online guy). This is what I keep thinking. How I would feel if the situation were reversed, and I know it would feel terrible, which is why that relationship has ended. It's up to my fiance how he'll take it. I find it kind of rich that on this website people with kids cheat on their spouses, multiple times or for several years, and are urged to come clean, end it, and reconcile, meanwhile I'm the scum of the earth for ending it and trying to move on as responsibly and considerately as I can. I'm just not trying to rush into anything. My mistakes are in the past, and not ongoing. This other guy IS a good friend, and it will hurt to lose him, but if my fiance and I decide to stay together and work it out, then that's the reality. But I'll still feel bad about it and miss him. And in case anyone's confused, I quite liked and appreciated freestyle's advice, and took exception only to the non-advice from gorillatheater. Ok, so please stop with your preconceived notions of what you like to hear and what you do not like to hear, ok? that's the surest way to drive off a lot of good posters who may have something to impart to you. most of the posters here have survived infidelity too. they are just giving you your bf's side of the equation. As in, he may leave you because you have not been honest with him through every call and connection made with someone else. that doesn't just hurt. That kind of secret kills relationships and breaks hearts and rocks self-esteem. it's no SMALL thing. Your tone seems to convey it is an obstacle, a nuisance, getting in the way of a friendship you will miss. Good luck in IC. 3
oldshirt Posted August 22, 2013 Posted August 22, 2013 I responded to your other post on the other forum before I saw this post. But it's not going to change my thoughts much. Let's review a few things here. - you were engaged but were fishing for other men online. - you found a guy who caught your eye and told you what you wanted to hear. - you took it from the realm of online fantasy to meeting in real life. - you're implying that you told him you are engaged but he still wants to have sex with you anyway. - you have told OM that you can't become involved with him due to engagement but he still sleeps with you. - You keep trying to justify your relationship with OM as "just friends" but you already have regular friends that you don't sleep with and who do not cause you to postpone your engagement and question your feelings and your commitment for your fiancé. (and just for clarification and for definitions sake, that is not a friend, that is now classified as the 'OTHER MAN.') - Other man seems perfectly ok with seeing you and watching your torment over your engagement which means he's just in it for the poontang. You realize this deep down but You are just trying to rationalize it and twist it into your "friendship" being so strong so you don't feel so slutty and are trying to make it so you don't look so slutty to us. Am I missing anything? Cont... 2
Author jmich Posted August 22, 2013 Author Posted August 22, 2013 Ok, so please stop with your preconceived notions of what you like to hear and what you do not like to hear, ok? that's the surest way to drive off a lot of good posters who may have something to impart to you. most of the posters here have survived infidelity too. they are just giving you your bf's side of the equation. As in, he may leave you because you have not been honest with him through every call and connection made with someone else. that doesn't just hurt. That kind of secret kills relationships and breaks hearts and rocks self-esteem. it's no SMALL thing. Your tone seems to convey it is an obstacle, a nuisance, getting in the way of a friendship you will miss. Good luck in IC. Lol. Yeah, I know, I know. I'm being pretty defensive, b/c I already feel bad about it. Trust me, I don't see my fiance as a nuisance to get through, but I do feel terrible, and I'm not looking to feel less terrible. I know all this is going to get more unpleasant before it gets better, but I'm also trying to avoid it in a way, even though it's not possible. I responded to your other post on the other forum before I saw this post. But it's not going to change my thoughts much. Let's review a few things here. - you were engaged but were fishing for other men online. - you found a guy who caught your eye and told you what you wanted to hear. - you took it from the realm of online fantasy to meeting in real life. - you're implying that you told him you are engaged but he still wants to have sex with you anyway. - you have told OM that you can't become involved with him due to engagement but he still sleeps with you. - You keep trying to justify your relationship with OM as "just friends" but you already have regular friends that you don't sleep with and who do not cause you to postpone your engagement and question your feelings and your commitment for your fiancé. (and just for clarification and for definitions sake, that is not a friend, that is now classified as the 'OTHER MAN.') - Other man seems perfectly ok with seeing you and watching your torment over your engagement which means he's just in it for the poontang. You realize this deep down but You are just trying to rationalize it and twist it into your "friendship" being so strong so you don't feel so slutty and are trying to make it so you don't look so slutty to us. Am I missing anything? Cont... Every point wrong, except the penultimate. Thanks for the input.
notbroken Posted August 22, 2013 Posted August 22, 2013 Please do your fiance a favor and do not marry him. Ever. 2
oldshirt Posted August 22, 2013 Posted August 22, 2013 cont.... Ok so let me give you my humble but sincere opinion. You are not ready for marriage. At least not with this current fiancé. I know you are obligated to deny it but you went looking for something when you signed on to Plenty Of Fish or Match or whatever it was when you met your OM. and you found it. and you liked it. That just doesn't bode well for marriage to current fiancé. Also the fact that you have enough underlying issues that you have to be in both IC and couples counseling just to maintain an engaged status indicates that this engagement should be put on hold indefinitely and probably should simply be terminated. If you break off the engagement now, a part of your fiancé may be hurt but realisitically another part of him will be relieved because he has to know that your heart is not in it. It will cause some disturbance and there will be some sleepless and tearful night but it will be a million times fewer sleepless nights and fewer tears than 5 years and two kids from now when one or both of you is truly cheating and you both are miserable and now you have to undo the mistake of getting married when you both knew you shouldn't have in the first place. Right now your only legal obligations are to return the ring and any marital gifts you may have received. When the time comes to divorce it is a whole other story that will involve child support, alimony/palimony, division of marital property and assets etc etc etc. Yes you were a little skanky surfing for some schlong online and falling for another man and falling out of love with your fiancé but this is all a symptom and a sign. Admit to yourself that this "friend" is not really just a friend and that you do have feelings and the hots for him. Admit to yourself that your fiancé just isn't cutting it for ya anymore. Admit to yourself that you are not ready to settle down and marry anyone even if this other man guy doesn't pan out (which it won't because a decent guy wouldn't have met and slept with an engaged woman. He is just good at telling you what you like to hear and in it for the poontang. Once he's banged you a few times and you are free and clear from your fiancé and wanting more from him, he is going to fade away like a fart in the wind) I may sound a little harsh and judgemental but I am just talking that way to make the point. In reality there really isn't that much shame or foul here. You weren't ready for marriage and this fiancé probably isn't the one for you. You got some cold feet and went fishing and found someone that made your jay-jay tingle and caused all your underlying issues with your fiancé to boil up to the surface. It happens all the time even though people don't like to hear It or experience it firsthand. The smart people see it for what it is and cancel the engagement and move on with their life. The dumb ones that ignore the red flags get married anyway and then pay the price years down the road after there are mortgages, car payments, 401ks and minor children. You've already been a little sleazy, but don't be dumb too. 3
oldshirt Posted August 22, 2013 Posted August 22, 2013 . Every point wrong, except the penultimate. Thanks for the input. No, every point is probably closer to reality than what any of us wants to admit. What's wrong is the denial and self-justification that taking place in your own head and your own heart. You are trying to make this a clean and neat and tidy situation with an easy and painfree fix. But that just isn't out there. The only way this is going to get resolved with the minimum amount of pain and chaos for everyone is to face your darkest fears and face up to and deal with the truth. Dancing and skirting around the issues and using little euphemisms like 'friend' and 'friendship' etc is just going to prolong the process and trying to twist reality into something that is cleaner and more palatable than what it really is, is just going to cause more pain and chaos in the long run. You say it's a complicated situation but it's really quite simple - you accepted an engagement that you probably shouldn't have, you weren't all that into your fiancé as much as you would have liked, you went searching for another dude, you found him, you like him, and now you're trying to figure out how to get out of the engagement and find someone more compatable with you without hurting anyone's feelings and being 100% assured that you are making the right decision. Sorry Hon, feelings are going to get hurt on multiple sides, there is no painless and clean solution and you are always going to have a little self-doubt and you aren't guaranteed of a perfect ending. Your best goal at this point is not the perfect ending but rather the least destructive ending. I'm not hating on you. You have presented some information from your perspective and asked for opinions. It is my humble opinion and the opinion of pretty much every other poster on both of your threads is that you should face up to your real feelings and come clean on what is taking place and end the engagement and not follow through with the marriage. 1
Author jmich Posted August 22, 2013 Author Posted August 22, 2013 cont.... I know you are obligated to deny it but you went looking for something when you signed on to Plenty Of Fish or Match or whatever it was when you met your OM. and you found it. and you liked it. I already said this was wrong. It wasn't a dating site, nor facebook. We met on a site that's specific to my hobby. Aside from the beginning and end of your post, I definitely agree, which is why the engagement is postponed. I don't feel comfortable ending it, because I do love my fiance. If people can work out more serious issues in marriage, I don't see why we can't, as long as we are honest (starting with me), and continue counseling as long as it's useful. Anyway, I had considered some of what you said, but not all of it, so thanks for the new perspective. I'll still be turning everything over in my head, and see what my counselor thinks. I haven't really gotten anywhere over the last few months of talking about it, but maybe she can help me on the timing and wording of "DDay." I already know he's going to be hurt, but I still want to do it in the least harmful way. Also, I'm not looking to hear what I already want... I'm just trying to move forward and not get bogged down in guilt. I feel it, but it's not productive at this point, and wallowing isn't going to help.
serial muse Posted August 22, 2013 Posted August 22, 2013 (edited) OP: No. I don't see a way for you to be friends with him. As others have said, you can't unring that bell. It's good that you feel guilt -- sorry, but you really should -- but I think perhaps part of the problem is your original post. You sort of seem to gloss over the part where you made a series of really relationship-damaging decisions, and then not only went to IC (good) but also wanted to bring your fiance into couples' counseling. But, why? Does he know about your emotional affair? It doesn't seem fair to insist he go to couples' with you to discuss what you think isn't OK about the relationship (his communication issues), while withholding something gigantic like that. Your rather cataclysmic way of dealing with relationship troubles really ought to be on the table too, oughtn't it? This is one of the things that betrayed spouses hate the most - it's the insult-added-to-injury aspect of it. At this point, you've got as much of a communication problem as he does (one could argue, more so), but I suspect that's not the topic of conversation so much. Anyway, as long as you remain emotionally close to this other guy (and that is what you've said you actually want), you will continue to compare your fiance to him, and will not be wholly invested in solving problems between the two of you. Your attention is divided. There isn't a way out of that one, I'm afraid, aside from making a choice. Personally, I agree with others in that it does not sound like you're ready to get married. You don't have to, you know. Perhaps your fiance isn't the man you want. Don't get married out of stubbornness. Edited August 22, 2013 by serial muse 1
aliveagain Posted August 22, 2013 Posted August 22, 2013 You are engaged, you start an emotional affair with someone you met online so that means your actively dating(but your engaged). You sleep with the guy which means you lied to your fiancé about your whereabouts. If you think this man is good friend material go tell your fiancé about him, that you slept with him and have been talking about intimate things with him. See if your fiancé still wants to be engaged to someone who's dating other men? Get some professional help before you spend thousands on a marriage that is guaranteed to fail. You in your present state are very poor wife material. 1
Mickey_Fitzpatrick Posted August 23, 2013 Posted August 23, 2013 (edited) Your fiancé is never going to look at you exactly the same again. He will never trust you 100% again. Thirty years from now, when someone asks, did your wife ever cheat on you, he is going to remember. There is a huge difference between being engaged and being married. With no kids, and not married yet, why do you want to work so hard to stay together? I don't know anyone who went to couples counseling who was not married, or at least I don't think I do. When I was single, and even engaged, I think the predominant attitude was that if you needed some type of counseling to stay together, then the relationship was just not meant to be. What do your parents and siblings think of the idea of couples counseling? It is no crime to discover that he is not the right guy for you after getting engaged. Better to call it off now than to get divorced later. What is wrong with taking a break from each other for a few months and exploring your relationship with this other guy? Just be upfront and honest about it, don't do it behind his back, and let him do the same. Shouldn't you let him go explore a relationship with another woman, now that you've explored one with another man? Wouldn't that be fair? You are not married yet, just engaged. The engagement period is the time when you can still decide the marriage is not right and call it off. I knew some young women back in the day who were in love with the idea of getting married, it didn't matter all that much to whom. I didn't realize it back then, but looking back, it's obvious to me now. They flirted with other guys before the marriage and got divorced (or annulled) shortly afterward. Leading up to their weddings, they were super-focused on all the wedding details, all the intricate details for a four-hour party, some of them spent a full year almost full-time planning it. Meanwhile, they spent about 30 minutes over that year planning the rest of their life. Is that you? You can say you don't have feelings for the other man until you're blue in the face, but the feelings are there and they come through in your posts. Edited August 23, 2013 by Mickey_Fitzpatrick 2
Bryanp Posted August 23, 2013 Posted August 23, 2013 How would you feel if your fiance was doing to you what you have been doing to him behind your back? Do your fiance a big favor and break up with him so he can find someone in the future who can truly respect him, loves him and know what it means to be engaged to someone because clearly you do not have a clue. 1
Mr. Lucky Posted August 23, 2013 Posted August 23, 2013 I'm just trying to move forward and not get bogged down in guilt. I feel it, but it's not productive at this point, and wallowing isn't going to help. When rehabbing from an injury, my PT used to tell me "pain is there for a reason, it tells you when to stop". Have you considered that guilt serves the same purpose? I'd put both relationships on hold while you figure out what you want. Neither is obviously meeting your needs... Mr. Lucky 1
Author jmich Posted August 26, 2013 Author Posted August 26, 2013 Okay, I'll try to answer the questions from the last few posts as best I can. First, thanks from the feedback. I think there were some good points, and good questions. Mickey, mymom thinks counseling is a good idea, and that I should be sure before getting married, however she has kind of a low opinion of men in general but thinks my fiance is a "good one." She hasn't said "so you should marry him," but I think it's implied. I'm the oldest sibling, by far, so the rest are still kids, and unaware. As for a break, my fiance said in counseling that he doesn't "do" them, but he might change his mind, I'm not sure. serialmuse, I think you made a lot of good points. In counseling, we do not focus on why I'm dissatisfied with my fiance, or what he's doing wrong. We both make mistakes in our relationship, so we try to work more on how we interact and communicate with each other. I don't think it's important to list his faults / why I'm not happy, especially here, because he's not responsible for my happiness or cheating, no matter what he's done. If I'm unhappy, I know it's my responsibility to talk to him about it, and go from there. I have taken a lot of this advice to heart, and despite my initial ambivalence, I was kind of always aware that we couldn't be friends and talk, I just didn't want to. The next challenge is figuring out what / when to tell my fiance, but it'll probably be within a month, so I'll be worrying about that for a little bit. I hope my counselor can help me find the right way to go about this. There are things that I can't help now, like hurting my fiance (this is done already, he just doesn't know), so it doesn't help at all to harp on them. I want to stay with him because I love him, and for several years, including now, when I think of my future, he's there. I'm sure I could be with someone else, but I want to do everything I can to make it work before giving up (and I might not have a choice), because he's who I want. We're certainly not getting married if things aren't tip-top shape, so that isn't a problem.
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