Soat Posted August 23, 2013 Posted August 23, 2013 This thread helped inspire me to finally take the final plunge and delete my ex from all social media. Thank you, OP. hooray! Well done! 1
Msnatural25 Posted August 23, 2013 Posted August 23, 2013 RonaldS Thank you for the link to the song. I really enjoyed it. Thank you for your story. I am happy for your new found happiness and freedom. I have yet to take that step. It is out of my comfort zone. Its kind of like i have gotten accustomed to the hell I created for myself.
Author RonaldS Posted August 23, 2013 Author Posted August 23, 2013 RonaldS Thank you for the link to the song. I really enjoyed it. Thank you for your story. I am happy for your new found happiness and freedom. I have yet to take that step. It is out of my comfort zone. Its kind of like i have gotten accustomed to the hell I created for myself. It will all work out for you. At some point, you'll take him off the pedestal and realize he's just a guy and there are a million out there as good or better than he is. If you don't mind me asking, how old are you?
Msnatural25 Posted August 23, 2013 Posted August 23, 2013 I am 33 years old. Sorry there is a minimum of ten characters in order to reply.
Author RonaldS Posted August 23, 2013 Author Posted August 23, 2013 Just to add some perspective.... My now XW and I started dating in 1999. 14 years ago. That is 14 years of my life that was spent doing the following: - constantly having to pass idiotic relationship tests - constantly having to make a person happy who did know how to make herself happy - constantly, and I mean CONSTANTLY, being accused of cheating - constantly having a person snooping through my email, phone, FB, etc - constantly meeting expectation on top of expectation - providing for a person who did not take advantage of the freedom we had to put herself in the best possible professional position - providing for a person who didn't put herself in the best possible professional position (or any professional position, for that matter) as a means of bettering OUR overall financial position - providing for a person who didn't do any of that stuff but still complained non-stop about our financial situation (as an aside, here was her daily life....she lived in a great neighborhood in the city, nannied part-time, spent her days with our kids, drove a Land Rover, had a posh gym membership, got to have coffee/lunch with her friends all the time, take the kids to the beach, zoo, park, whatever. Tough life) - rarely receiving any sort of support myself...when times got tough, she was driving the blame train full speed ahead - rarely receiving any sort of emotional support - rarely receiving any sort of affection, unless she wanted, and even then, I was supposed to pick up on infinitesimally subtle and vague cues that she wanted something and initiate everything myself - asking something simple such as 'can you rub my head a little...it hurts' and having her have a huffy mini tantrum And the list goes on and on....and on....and on....and on. Hey, I was hardly perfect in our relationship, but I was always putting effort into it. Supporting her and anything she ever wanted to do, giving her a life that seemed pretty nice to me, helping all the time with the kids and cleaning and running errands and giving her 'her time'. Always, always being there for her emotionally and nursing her through every little crisis. So, you guys, I slaved away at this thing for essentially 14 years, minus the last 8 months when I finally let go and stopped giving a crap about her. And most of that time was after I was done with her and the relationship. Hell, we were together for 3 years after that before we got married! And it was TOTALLY one-sided. I vaguely felt it all the time, and vaguely felt like I didn't want to be there, and vaguely felt like it would never work out....but I forged ahead anyway because, well...I love her. But wow...14 years, to end up with this. One of the rural colloquialisms I've always loved is 'You can't make chicken soup out of chicken ****'. It's true. People rarely change. Things rarely get better. Fairy tales and movies are not real life. If you're holding onto somebody because of guilt or fear of loss and loneliness, or because you feel like it's what you're 'supposed to do', or if all of your friends are getting married and you don't want to be left behind....let go. You're probably already gone. And if somebody has broken up with you, same thing. There's a 95%+ chance that even if you get back together, the break-up has already happened. Maybe you managed to delay it. But it's queued up, and it's just a matter of time. One of the conversations my XW and I had when we separated is something you all need to think about, regardless of which side of the coin you're on. She asked if we should just try to stay together until our kids were out if the house (mind you, our youngest had just recently been born). I said 'I don't know. Do you want to start your life over when you're 33, or when you're 53?'. It's a question you all need to ask yourselves. It's almost never a matter of if, but when. Do you want to say goodbye to 3 years when you're 26 or 27, not yet married, no kids, your whole life ahead of you, or do you want to say goodbye to a decade plus and then waste another three years on top of that being in limbo, going through a whole legal process, splitting custody of kids, never having an opportunity to move past that person because they're always in your life and you're always aware of what they're doing and who they're with? Pain, loss, lonliness, sadness...those are temporary and fairly easily remedied. The alternative is costly in ways that almost can't even be quantified and you will be paying for it for life. 3
Msnatural25 Posted August 23, 2013 Posted August 23, 2013 "Pain, loss, lonliness, sadness...those are temporary and fairly easily remedied. The alternative is costly in ways that almost can't even be quantified and you will be paying for it for life. " Arent those things all inevitable in all relationship dynamics. I am tired of starting over. I dont want to get to know someone else ALL over again. But you are right. I have been playing your words in my head since yesterday and they make allot of sense. There are just so few men of substance where I live. And I am at a point that when I get over this, I will just take a mental health break for a minute. And I forget to mention to you. I saw your comment about the website where you are cyber breaking women's hearts. Either way like i mentioned before. We work together and if we didnt i feel that this process would be much easier. I literally stay closed up in my office to I wont bump into him in the hallway. I hate seeing his name pop up on emails. just give me the knife
Soat Posted August 23, 2013 Posted August 23, 2013 Just to add some perspective.... My now XW and I started dating in 1999. 14 years ago. That is 14 years of my life that was spent doing the following: - constantly having to pass idiotic relationship tests - constantly having to make a person happy who did know how to make herself happy - constantly, and I mean CONSTANTLY, being accused of cheating - constantly having a person snooping through my email, phone, FB, etc - constantly meeting expectation on top of expectation - providing for a person who did not take advantage of the freedom we had to put herself in the best possible professional position - providing for a person who didn't put herself in the best possible professional position (or any professional position, for that matter) as a means of bettering OUR overall financial position - providing for a person who didn't do any of that stuff but still complained non-stop about our financial situation (as an aside, here was her daily life....she lived in a great neighborhood in the city, nannied part-time, spent her days with our kids, drove a Land Rover, had a posh gym membership, got to have coffee/lunch with her friends all the time, take the kids to the beach, zoo, park, whatever. Tough life) - rarely receiving any sort of support myself...when times got tough, she was driving the blame train full speed ahead - rarely receiving any sort of emotional support - rarely receiving any sort of affection, unless she wanted, and even then, I was supposed to pick up on infinitesimally subtle and vague cues that she wanted something and initiate everything myself - asking something simple such as 'can you rub my head a little...it hurts' and having her have a huffy mini tantrum And the list goes on and on....and on....and on....and on. Hey, I was hardly perfect in our relationship, but I was always putting effort into it. Supporting her and anything she ever wanted to do, giving her a life that seemed pretty nice to me, helping all the time with the kids and cleaning and running errands and giving her 'her time'. Always, always being there for her emotionally and nursing her through every little crisis. So, you guys, I slaved away at this thing for essentially 14 years, minus the last 8 months when I finally let go and stopped giving a crap about her. And most of that time was after I was done with her and the relationship. Hell, we were together for 3 years after that before we got married! And it was TOTALLY one-sided. I vaguely felt it all the time, and vaguely felt like I didn't want to be there, and vaguely felt like it would never work out....but I forged ahead anyway because, well...I love her. But wow...14 years, to end up with this. One of the rural colloquialisms I've always loved is 'You can't make chicken soup out of chicken ****'. It's true. People rarely change. Things rarely get better. Fairy tales and movies are not real life. If you're holding onto somebody because of guilt or fear of loss and loneliness, or because you feel like it's what you're 'supposed to do', or if all of your friends are getting married and you don't want to be left behind....let go. You're probably already gone. And if somebody has broken up with you, same thing. There's a 95%+ chance that even if you get back together, the break-up has already happened. Maybe you managed to delay it. But it's queued up, and it's just a matter of time. One of the conversations my XW and I had when we separated is something you all need to think about, regardless of which side of the coin you're on. She asked if we should just try to stay together until our kids were out if the house (mind you, our youngest had just recently been born). I said 'I don't know. Do you want to start your life over when you're 33, or when you're 53?'. It's a question you all need to ask yourselves. It's almost never a matter of if, but when. Do you want to say goodbye to 3 years when you're 26 or 27, not yet married, no kids, your whole life ahead of you, or do you want to say goodbye to a decade plus and then waste another three years on top of that being in limbo, going through a whole legal process, splitting custody of kids, never having an opportunity to move past that person because they're always in your life and you're always aware of what they're doing and who they're with? Pain, loss, lonliness, sadness...those are temporary and fairly easily remedied. The alternative is costly in ways that almost can't even be quantified and you will be paying for it for life. Thank you so much for sharing. Makes me feel better for not having married as never met the right person (hoping one day though!). Better to be alone than with the wrong person!
Soat Posted August 23, 2013 Posted August 23, 2013 "Pain, loss, lonliness, sadness...those are temporary and fairly easily remedied. The alternative is costly in ways that almost can't even be quantified and you will be paying for it for life. " Arent those things all inevitable in all relationship dynamics. I am tired of starting over. I dont want to get to know someone else ALL over again. But you are right. I have been playing your words in my head since yesterday and they make allot of sense. There are just so few men of substance where I live. And I am at a point that when I get over this, I will just take a mental health break for a minute. And I forget to mention to you. I saw your comment about the website where you are cyber breaking women's hearts. Either way like i mentioned before. We work together and if we didnt i feel that this process would be much easier. I literally stay closed up in my office to I wont bump into him in the hallway. I hate seeing his name pop up on emails. just give me the knife This is the same complaint I hear no matter where people live (Big cities, little cities, suburbs, rural areas). It's hard to meet people everywhere!
handyguy Posted August 23, 2013 Posted August 23, 2013 Hey everybody. Just sort of a precautionary tale to share. A lot of you find yourselves in bad places in bad relationships and stuck in a weird sort of love-limbo where you keep feeling like you need to try to make it work. Now, I'm not here to tell anybody what to do, but I can share my experience and maybe somebody can glean something useful from it. Many years ago, I met the most amazing and beautiful girl. We ended up together, and we just sort of fit. We were in our mid-20s, and were enjoying the carefree existence one is often afforded at that age. Our chemistry together was incredible, and I, who had never even considered being in a relationship, had found the girl of my dreams. There were definitely numerous red flags early on, but I/we were so 'in love' that they were ignored. We always figured that we could overcome anything because we loved each other so much. We always looked toward the future and the attitude was always, 'Once we get past this, we will be fine. We'll be stronger and better than ever'. After a couple of years, we ended up going on a break. I'm not going to go into why, because it was such a stupid, overblown situation that it's not even worth trying to explain. But she needed 'space to figure things out' and 'to figure out if (she) could continue on' with me. So, we went on a break. Naturally, she immediately started dating some other guy. Even though I was letting her use my brand new car (while I drove her junker), she wanted nothing to do with me. I would occassionally try to call and talk to her, but she always had stuff going on and never wanted to talk. Her friend told me that she had moved on and that I needed to as well, but the problem was that she never ended it. This went on for a little over a month. Finally, I was done. I snooped around and realized he was spending the night at her place. After a sleepless night, I drove over there at about 6:30 am. I still had her apartment key, she still had my car, so I thought nothing of going in. I found her curled up in bed with her guy. I gently woke her up, and when she came to, I said 'Goodbye. I'm done. I don't want this anymore'. And that was it. I was done with her. That was in July of 2001. I know...cool story, bro. So what's my point? Well, in exactly two weeks, we are finalizing our divorce. Through it all, we ended up working everything out, moving forward together, getting married, having kids (we have 3). Built a life together, planned our entire futures together, yada yada yada. But guess what. Our relationship ended in July of 2001. That was when I left her, and I never really came back. I let things like guilt and fear of loss keep us together. Now I have 3 kids who live in another state, child support payments, constant travel back and forth to see them, and all of the feelings of failure and loss that you could expect to feel when you have three young kids who have been so hurt through this. I'm not pissing and moaning about my responsibilities....just illustrating a point. I am stuck for the next 15 years...and really for the rest of my life...with having a person in my life who, lets face it, shouldn't even be there. Why? I ignored all of the obvious red flags, I tried so hard and gave everything I had to make it work, and in the end, all that happened was that a relationship sat there and rotted away on life support when it should have been taken out behind the shed and shot a long time ago. I didn't have the strength or courage to follow through with ending something I didn't want. Too 'in love' to be even remotely objective. And the collateral damage? Forget me. How about my three kids? If you're finding yourself at that point where the train is leaving, just let it go. Don't try to chase it down and stop it. All you're going to end up doing is tripping over yourself and falling under the wheels and being decapitated. Just let it go. Life will move on, and there's a good chance it will end up being much better than the one you're using all of your breath trying to resuscitate. And if you're on the dumped end, same thing. Just let it go. Life is short and precious. Don't squander it on lost causes. If he or she says they're done, they're done. Maybe not this minute or this week or this year, but eventually. If you do get back with them, you're probably on borrowed time. Remember that. There are very slim odds that a fairy tale ending will ensue. Just let it go and move on. Don't be me. Hi Ronald Your story rings true and applies to my situation. I like the train analogy. Best to say farewell as hard as that is. Dan
Author RonaldS Posted August 23, 2013 Author Posted August 23, 2013 (edited) "Pain, loss, lonliness, sadness...those are temporary and fairly easily remedied. The alternative is costly in ways that almost can't even be quantified and you will be paying for it for life. " Arent those things all inevitable in all relationship dynamics. I am tired of starting over. I dont want to get to know someone else ALL over again. But you are right. I have been playing your words in my head since yesterday and they make allot of sense. There are just so few men of substance where I live. And I am at a point that when I get over this, I will just take a mental health break for a minute. And I forget to mention to you. I saw your comment about the website where you are cyber breaking women's hearts. Either way like i mentioned before. We work together and if we didnt i feel that this process would be much easier. I literally stay closed up in my office to I wont bump into him in the hallway. I hate seeing his name pop up on emails. just give me the knife Re: the first part.... It's like this. Once you get married and have kids, you are bound together for life, no matter what. That person NEVER truly goes away. So, not only are they a daily presence in your life, you have to constantly work together, communicate, see each other, attend events for the kids together, work out finances revolving around the kids together, and so on. It's much more profound than ending a relationship and bumping into that person periodically or even frequently. The difference is that if you want to, you CAN totally remove him from your life on every level. I will never be able to remove my XW from my life. She's a fixture. It will be easy for her moving forward, because there is no way in hell I will ever get married again. That's not me being jaded. That's me being accutely aware of my relationship potential. I'm not cut out for it. So, there will never be another woman in my life that my XW will ever have to deal with. But I'm pretty sure my XW has started another relationship, and where she lives, men are in short, short supply, so given how dependent she is, I'm sure she will lock him up. From what I know about him, he's a totally nice and decent guy, but not a guy I can identify with. Who cares, you say? Well, I don't really care, other than in all likelihood, he will be the guy that my kids live with a majority of the time, and it's inevitable that I will have to hang out with him for various reasons. To me, I don't know....it's just a 'WTF?' situation. Again, it's not something she will have to deal with. I'm not bringing some chick around my kids. I'm not going to give myself to another person. For better or worse, I took my shot. I had my girl that I loved. Despite everything that was wrong, I still truly loved her. I'm not going to give that to anybody else. And I'm not trying to be a tragic character...I just don't want to do that again. But she will/is, and now I have some chumpy guy helping to raise my kids. That's the stuff that, when you have a regular relationship end, you just don't have to deal with. You can totally start over, and maybe it's not a bad idea if you do. Maybe look at moving somewhere new, doing something new, giving yourself the opportunity to be whoever you want to be. You really have nothing tying you down. You can go where you want, do what you want and be who you want to be without having to think about anybody else. There are times when I would KILL to have that freedom. But I don't. I have a small yard to play in, and not many toys to play with. Edited August 23, 2013 by RonaldS 3
Knoxpwns Posted August 23, 2013 Posted August 23, 2013 You can't make chicken soup out of chicken **** HA! Love it. Never heard it before, but I'll be saving that one to bust out on a rainy day. Do you want to start your life over when you're 33, or when you're 53?'. ****. that's pretty deep, and I never really thought about it like that. valid point, and I would definitely agree its something a lot of us here never really think about. I think its because a lot of the people here are dumpees in "fix it! fix it! fix it!" mode. I lost 6 years of my life. Although I learned a lot, to me, it was still lost. That could have turned into 16 or 26 without much hassle.
Knoxpwns Posted August 23, 2013 Posted August 23, 2013 Re: the first part.... It's like this. Once you get married and have kids, you are bound together for life, no matter what. That person NEVER truly goes away. So, not only are they a daily presence in your life, you have to constantly work together, communicate, see each other, attend events for the kids together, work out finances revolving around the kids together, and so on. It's much more profound than ending a relationship and bumping into that person periodically or even frequently. The difference is that if you want to, you CAN totally remove him from your life on every level. I will never be able to remove my XW from my life. She's a fixture. It will be easy for her moving forward, because there is no way in hell I will ever get married again. That's not me being jaded. That's me being accutely aware of my relationship potential. I'm not cut out for it. So, there will never be another woman in my life that my XW will ever have to deal with. But I'm pretty sure my XW has started another relationship, and where she lives, men are in short, short supply, so given how dependent she is, I'm sure she will lock him up. From what I know about him, he's a totally nice and decent guy, but not a guy I can identify with. Who cares, you say? Well, I don't really care, other than in all likelihood, he will be the guy that my kids live with a majority of the time, and it's inevitable that I will have to hang out with him for various reasons. To me, I don't know....it's just a 'WTF?' situation. Again, it's not something she will have to deal with. I'm not bringing some chick around my kids. I'm not going to give myself to another person. For better or worse, I took my shot. I had my girl that I loved. Despite everything that was wrong, I still truly loved her. I'm not going to give that to anybody else. And I'm not trying to be a tragic character...I just don't want to do that again. But she will/is, and now I have some chumpy guy helping to raise my kids. That's the stuff that, when you have a regular relationship end, you just don't have to deal with. You can totally start over, and maybe it's not a bad idea if you do. Maybe look at moving somewhere new, doing something new, giving yourself the opportunity to be whoever you want to be. You really have nothing tying you down. You can go where you want, do what you want and be who you want to be without having to think about anybody else. There are times when I would KILL to have that freedom. But I don't. I have a small yard to play in, and not many toys to play with. Think about it hard. If you think relationships aren't for you, it's definitely understandable given the **** you've been through. Doesn't even have to be another marriage though, just someone you love and loves you. My dad never really went back to anyone, he has been single for decades. It makes me feel really bad, really sad... As his son, and watching him grow older, I want him to have someone to spend the back end of his life with. Anyone deserves that. I don't know, maybe I am more of an emotional guy, but I feel like he deserves to have someone, anyone. He gave me and my brother so much, he really deserves that. I feel the same for you, even though you're MUCH much younger than my dad. Sorry, but for some reason I really relate you to my dad. You seem a lot alike. A good guy who got caught up in some really crappy ****. But you have kids you love more than anything, and as easy as it would be for you to bail, you don't. If you haven't figured out by my posts in this thread so far, I have a great deal of respect for you in that regard. 1
Author RonaldS Posted August 23, 2013 Author Posted August 23, 2013 Think about it hard. If you think relationships aren't for you, it's definitely understandable given the **** you've been through. Doesn't even have to be another marriage though, just someone you love and loves you. My dad never really went back to anyone, he has been single for decades. It makes me feel really bad, really sad... As his son, and watching him grow older, I want him to have someone to spend the back end of his life with. Anyone deserves that. I don't know, maybe I am more of an emotional guy, but I feel like he deserves to have someone, anyone. He gave me and my brother so much, he really deserves that. I feel the same for you, even though you're MUCH much younger than my dad. Sorry, but for some reason I really relate you to my dad. You seem a lot alike. A good guy who got caught up in some really crappy ****. But you have kids you love more than anything, and as easy as it would be for you to bail, you don't. If you haven't figured out by my posts in this thread so far, I have a great deal of respect for you in that regard. Thanks, dude. I truly appreciate your perspective, especially regarding your dad. Here's the thing, though, and maybe this is something your dad realized a long time ago. There's a very profound difference between being lonely and being alone. I'm for the most part alone, but hardly lonely. Companionship is great and not difficult to find, and for me it's even better when I'm not locked into it. It's like being a grandparent...you have all of the benefits of having kids, and then at the end of the day when you're tired and fed up with them, you hand them off to mom or dad and resume going about your life. Again, it's not as tragic of a position to be in as it sounds.
Knoxpwns Posted August 23, 2013 Posted August 23, 2013 Thanks, dude. I truly appreciate your perspective, especially regarding your dad. Fair enough on the relationship part. Also, if you ever worry that your kids might like the other guy more, I got a hell of a story regarding the nicest stepdad I ever had turned mental and physically abusive to the point he beat the ****ing snot out of my brother. It never effected my brother and I mentally in the least, luckily. We grew up some hella great guys. But that common enemy not only made my brother and I best friends, but that mutual enemy made my dad and I even closer as well. sometimes great gifts can be hidden in ****ty packages, hehe.
Babolat Posted August 23, 2013 Posted August 23, 2013 (edited) That's the thing I've realized over time. There is rarely a happy ending. Life isn't Cinderella or Snow White or any of those other fairy tales. I think we can be very good at subjectively constructing our own realities when we either want something or fear something badly enough. Look, I'm far from miserable. I have a good life, in a good place (we've been separated for 3 years), and have gotten through a TON. My head finally broke the surface of the water, and life is overall pretty good. So I hope my post did not come off as sulking. The bottom line is this: how much better could my life have ended up being had I chosen differently 12, or even 14 years ago? It's a stupid question for me to ask, because I can't change the past and good things, even some great things (my kids) did come out of it. No point in me wasting any time wondering how things could be different. I made the choices I made, ipso facto I have the life that I have. However....it's a great question for those of you who are where I was 12 years ago, or where my XW was 12 years ago, to ask. Instead of looking at their own situations, which they may be too close to to view realistically, just look at mine all those years ago, and ask 'What could that guy's life be like if he had just let go?' As my now ex father-in-law always says, 'Nobody is totally worthless. You can always be used as a bad example'. This is a great post, thanks. I would put a different spin on this though. You made a choice, you invested 15 years of your life in this person, and you now have 3 wonderful kids. You grew, you learned, you "found" yourself as a result of this experience. And now you are in a better place. Personally, I believe things happen for a reason, and, maybe this had to happen to you to get you where you are today. Folks ask me why I spent 12 months with my last gf..and I don't have a definiitive answer other than hope, and I was crazy about her. They ask me why I am still meeting up with her every few weeks now, 5+ months since I broke up with her. I don't really know. I am ok with it though for now. When I am not, I will make a change. Folks ask me why I spent 9+ years in a bad marriage. Because I was comitted to making it work. I don't regret the time or look at it as "damn I was 35 when I got married, 44 when I got divorced, I wasted 9 years". I look at it as I now know myself better and I am in a better place. Both relationships were part of my journey..... Edited August 23, 2013 by Babolat
Author RonaldS Posted August 23, 2013 Author Posted August 23, 2013 I have seen this same dynamic played out countless times... "Nice" Guy Syndrome. The whole "she needed a break" and OP let his then Ex drive his new car while she is off dating / screwing another man was the dead give away. Everything else and the other posts by the OP only confirm / reinforce it. "Nice" Guy thinks his lot in life is to serve and prove his worthiness to women. This is very common with men who have "daddy" issues" or where a boy grew up with a Dad but was not a very good strong male role model. Due to self-worth, self-esteem and self-respect issues "Nice" Guy neglects himself, his wants and needs in order to serve and try to accommodate / meet an ungrateful entitled woman needs / expectations. "Nice" Guy hopes that once he proves / shows his worthiness with all the work, time, effort, energy, devotion and sacrifice... he will win favor / approval with ungrateful entitled woman and by doing so she will love, respect, care and treat him the way he deserves. These ungrateful entitled woman treat these "Nice" Guys like "Mules". They whip / beat these "Mules" even when they are sweating, bleeding and giving it everything they've got as they "plow the fields". What usually happens is the ungrateful entitled woman gets bored or their is a new "Mule" who is willing / able to "plow the fields" for her far better than her current old worn out "Mule". The OP still sees / views / believes he is a "Mule" but in his case... Tired / Worn out / Sick of the being beaten / whipped while "Plowing the fields" for his master with little to nothing in return. Which is why he now "gives up" on women / marriage / etc. because to him it's a never-ending backbreaking job where you sweat and bleed and get beat / whipped and don't even get a simple thank you much less the respect, love, etc. that you want / deserve. My advice... Stop being a "Nice" Guy and go buy / read the book "No More Mr. Nice Guy" by Robert Glover. Visit his website and look through the forums. You will find COUNTLESS other "Nice" Guys who were treated like "Mules" and taken out back and shot in the head when they served no purpose or were replaced by a new "Mule" (OP, you are not alone). You will also see COUNTLESS former "Nice" Guys who put in the time, effort and energy overcoming their issues and now have a life, job, relationships, love, marriage (new one usually) that they always wanted and hoped for. I'm going to agree and disagree with you. It's actually an abandonment issue, where the child grows up fearing that (typically) mom will also leave and they end up doing whatever they can do to keep mom happy and stay in favor with her so she doesn't leave as well. It's pretty effed up, but it also doesn't really have that much to do with self-esteem. Lets do a compare/contrast: myself and my father-in-law. My MIL acts in a relationship exactly as my XW does. My FIL truly is a 'nice guy' with daddy issues who long ago resigned to a life of being beaten over the head into submission by my MIL. He gets treated like crap and just sits there and puts up with it. I, on the other hand, am not a 'nice guy', at least not like that. I did get stuck in a stage of trying to win the approval and acceptance of my 'mom', but I was only going to keep putting up with it for so long. Every time she pulled some BS, I checked out a little bit more, until ultimately getting to the point where I completely shut down to her and gave up on the relationship. We still lasted another year after that, but I was already long gone. My wife technically left me, but it was because I forced her to. She was never bored of me or looking to better deal me. She was completely dependent on me...financially, emotionally, etc. When it all went down, she was devastated. She still is, 3 years later. I don't need to read a book to figure out how to not be a nice guy. I did all of that stuff, gave and gave and gave, but it had a limit. As nice as I can be, I'm also a pretty sharp knife and rarely think anything of cutting somebody in half. I have a low BS tolerance. Always had one. To that end, relationships are not something I ever wanted or hoped for. My XW and I met when I was 25, and prior to that, I had never really wanted one. Didn't care for them, and always felt every relationship was temporary. I met her and decided that I would try it once. If it didn't work, I was done. So, my current relationship position is the same as it was before I met her, only now I'm not wondering what it would be like to have that. So, you make some good points, but my situation is a little different. I know the kind of guy you're talking about, though. I know a ton of them. I've always felt sorry for them. An interesting dynamic with my FIL....we still have a good relationship, and when we hang out, I sense a little bit of either admiration or envy. Not sure which. For as much as I hurt his daughter, he still likes me. I think in a way he respects that I put my foot down and got the hell out, because he was never brave enough to. Of course, he would never say that, although he has made tons of allusions sort of indicating that. And I can see it in his eyes.
CptSaveAho Posted August 24, 2013 Posted August 24, 2013 Your orignal post was a great "looking in the mirror" post and was real But, you have a lot more learning and growing up to do... When I read it, I got the "nice guy" impression as well. You believe her words when her actions clearly are the opposite and you over rationalize for her and her behaviors as well. Your own behavior and actions throughout the relationship are those of a "nice guy" You didnt have to post that this was your first relationship for those of us that have been in your shoes clearly sees. Contrary to your views/beliefs, you aren't "different" You made the same mistakes as most people that post here on the forum. The only difference is you admitted/manned up to a lot of your crimes but not all of them
Author RonaldS Posted August 24, 2013 Author Posted August 24, 2013 You believe her words when her actions clearly are the opposite and you over rationalize for her and her behaviors as well. Your own behavior and actions throughout the relationship are those of a "nice guy" I guess I don't understand what you mean here. What words/actions are you talking about?
templeofmax Posted August 24, 2013 Posted August 24, 2013 So after the initial breakup what happened? How much time elapsed? did she come back or did you go back to her?
Author RonaldS Posted August 24, 2013 Author Posted August 24, 2013 (edited) So after the initial breakup what happened? How much time elapsed? did she come back or did you go back to her? We went on a break that she initiated. That lasted approximately 5 weeks. She had been hanging out with that guy most of that time...probably had him lined up before our break. We talked a bit here and there during the first couple of weeks of the break. She became increasingly distant, and I was getting to the point where I was done with it all, given that I knew she was hanging out with another guy. In the last week of the break, I called her a couple of times to tell her I thought we should talk. She just sort of blew it off. She wouldn't get together and talk, but she wouldn't end it. By the time I went into her place to confront her when I knew the guy was there, I was done and had already made plans to move out West where a couple of good friends had recently moved. So, I went in, woke her up, ended it. It's all a huge blur after that. She was a total disaster. She never saw that coming, and just got blindsided. That day, she probably called me 25 times. The first 15 or so, I didn't answer. Then I answered a couple, she was bawling, I didn't want to hear it, and stopped answering after that. Then later she was calling and leaving messages that I couldn't even understand she was bawling so hard. The next day I agreed to go to her place and talk to her. She was mess. We got back together pretty quickly. I did love her, and I did want to be with her...at the time. What I didn't realize until much later was that I left her and never truly came back. Edited August 24, 2013 by RonaldS
Author RonaldS Posted August 26, 2013 Author Posted August 26, 2013 Your orignal post was a great "looking in the mirror" post and was real But, you have a lot more learning and growing up to do... When I read it, I got the "nice guy" impression as well. You believe her words when her actions clearly are the opposite and you over rationalize for her and her behaviors as well. Your own behavior and actions throughout the relationship are those of a "nice guy" You didnt have to post that this was your first relationship for those of us that have been in your shoes clearly sees. Contrary to your views/beliefs, you aren't "different" You made the same mistakes as most people that post here on the forum. The only difference is you admitted/manned up to a lot of your crimes but not all of them I'm still sort of confused by your post, and was hoping you could clarify. First of all, I'm not sure what words of hers I believed when her actions are clearly the opposite. Also, what 'crimes' did I not own up to?
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