Jonah Posted August 22, 2013 Posted August 22, 2013 oh my... I've read quite a few threads but this one is the creepiest by far. I'm thinking doubly bad Karma. Something worse than testicular cancer and all that goes with it.
Betterthanthis13 Posted August 22, 2013 Posted August 22, 2013 I appreciate the concern, but our children are just fine. This is not in their face. I can't un-ring the bell. They will be just fine. They are probably awesome kids and you are really proud of them, with good reason. But "fine" isn't really a useful descriptive term. "Fine" could = not happy but sucking it up and faking happiness to make parents happy. Or a million other things. What advice would you give your own daughter 15 years from now if she confessed she was in your exact situation, and asked for advice? This can be considered a rhetorical question if you want. You've said there are extenuating circumstances which prohibit any real change in your situation. The only feasible thing that comes to mind is some sort of political involvement, where the greater good is at stake. Aside from that- maybe its time to go back to the drawing board?
soccerrprp Posted August 22, 2013 Posted August 22, 2013 Actually, in the justice system, snitches and informants are not respected by prosecutors and judges at all. They use them, but they are disparaged at every turn. i have known of several cases where the informant's identity was purposefully leaked. This is true if they were already sleazy individuals in the first place. But many, many people who inform for the right, honorable reasons are respected and praised. 3
Realist3 Posted August 23, 2013 Posted August 23, 2013 They are probably awesome kids and you are really proud of them, with good reason. But "fine" isn't really a useful descriptive term. "Fine" could = not happy but sucking it up and faking happiness to make parents happy. Or a million other things. What advice would you give your own daughter 15 years from now if she confessed she was in your exact situation, and asked for advice? This can be considered a rhetorical question if you want. You've said there are extenuating circumstances which prohibit any real change in your situation. The only feasible thing that comes to mind is some sort of political involvement, where the greater good is at stake. Aside from that- maybe its time to go back to the drawing board? By fine I mean they are extremely happy living childhoods most kids could only dream about. Same goes for AP's kids. The interactions in our house are just like you would see in any other household. To be in my exact situation it would be about 30 years from now. I would tell her to do what she feels is best for her situation. In my opinion is is much harder on a MOW than it is for a MOM in this situation. I certainly would not advise her to do what is happening with me right now. But my advise to her in 15 years would be don't settle. I have always been of the mindset that in the vast majority of relationships on of the two partners is settling. And over time that position leads to a bit of angst. I'm not sure new drawing boards are in my future.
Realist3 Posted August 23, 2013 Posted August 23, 2013 This is true if they were already sleazy individuals in the first place. But many, many people who inform for the right, honorable reasons are respected and praised. That may be the case, but let's be frank here, people turn because they are in over their head, or they want a very reduced charge.
soccerrprp Posted August 23, 2013 Posted August 23, 2013 That may be the case, but let's be frank here, people turn because they are in over their head, or they want a very reduced charge. I see where you're coming from. I was being more general and also including conscientious informants who are themselves not subject to legal proceedings or action against them.
Realist3 Posted August 23, 2013 Posted August 23, 2013 I see where you're coming from. I was being more general and also including conscientious informants who are themselves not subject to legal proceedings or action against them. Those are few and far between. Anyone with any real useful information is "in". They aren't just observers.
Realist3 Posted August 23, 2013 Posted August 23, 2013 That analogy is actually a lot closer than any others offered up so far.
Journee Posted August 23, 2013 Posted August 23, 2013 I always kind of have to shrug at analogy dismissals. So much of this is completely subjective that telling someone that the analogy they use to describe their pain as being wrong... well falls as flat as said bad analogy. If someone feels like they have been robbed ,stabbed or tickled to death it isn't wrong. It's their own description. I think it sucks because so many on all sides are constantly being told they are wrong about themselves , the people they love , their wording choices. etc. OP's AP ( now that's a mouthful) at the very least has a from scratch starting point. Okay , it's all out on the table. Where do we go from here? She has what a lot of people will never have. OP didn't secure her demise with his confession to the BH. We don't know what will come of this. Is it possible that everyone will be forever doomed? Sure. It's also possible that all four of these people will be more free and honest than they have ever been. 5
Realist3 Posted August 23, 2013 Posted August 23, 2013 Analogies are based on logic; either it fits or it doesn't. That is why people should be very careful in making them. They can easily lead to the logical fallacy of slippery slope.
Journee Posted August 23, 2013 Posted August 23, 2013 Analogies are based on logic; either it fits or it doesn't. That is why people should be very careful in making them. They can easily lead to the logical fallacy of slippery slope. The problem with that is people can be quite emotional. Some are better than others when it comes to managing their emotions. Maybe it's maturity , defense mechanisms , projecion even. If I feel pain , whether it's physical or emotional I can describe it in lots of ways. Doctor's often ask on a scale from 1-10. My 3 could be your (general) 8. Logic has little to do with it. Either it hurts like an 8 or a 3. I have said a couple of times that H's A's for me are not the worst pain I have been in emotionally. It's still up there in the top 3. For anther BS ,I have seen comparisons to some pretty awful things. I just personality believe that much of this is subjective. Just like the discussion of whether the BS believes the A relationship is real or not. It doesn't make the R any less real for the AP's. Feelings and emotion don't have to make sense or be logical IMO. Just my nickel's worth. If someone I love betrays me in a terrible way chances are my description still won't convey the agony. blah blah lol back to topic my second hijack. Sorry OP. 2
Betterthanthis13 Posted August 23, 2013 Posted August 23, 2013 Analogies are based on logic; either it fits or it doesn't. That is why people should be very careful in making them. They can easily lead to the logical fallacy of slippery slope. That's why discussion in analogy is important- true understanding can begin with agreement in analogy. If the analogy is "wrong", or logically fallacious, there is a misunderstanding. Either party could be wrong (or simply misunderstand), and it isn't neccessarily personal or judgemental. Fix the analogy, or suggest a new one... so we all learn. (It sucks when it's me that learns- it happens more than I would like.) Dismissal of a possible analogy existing is probably denial. There is no situation so special that an analogy is nonexistent. Just takes thought, time, and an open mind 2
Betterthanthis13 Posted August 23, 2013 Posted August 23, 2013 The problem with that is people can be quite emotional. Some are better than others when it comes to managing their emotions. Maybe it's maturity , defense mechanisms , projecion even. If I feel pain , whether it's physical or emotional I can describe it in lots of ways. Doctor's often ask on a scale from 1-10. My 3 could be your (general) 8. Logic has little to do with it. Either it hurts like an 8 or a 3. I have said a couple of times that H's A's for me are not the worst pain I have been in emotionally. It's still up there in the top 3. For anther BS ,I have seen comparisons to some pretty awful things. I just personality believe that much of this is subjective. Just like the discussion of whether the BS believes the A relationship is real or not. It doesn't make the R any less real for the AP's. Feelings and emotion don't have to make sense or be logical IMO. Just my nickel's worth. If someone I love betrays me in a terrible way chances are my description still won't convey the agony. blah blah lol back to topic my second hijack. Sorry OP. Well I'm going to continue the hijack- sorry Ian. (Really) And it's with an analogy/story, too- so...sorry to everyone else. Ok here is T/J: Pain levels---- Journey you mentioned one persons 3 being an 8. That brings me to physical pain. I have a tattoo on my leg. It's not huge but definitely not small. Most people- according to the person that did my tat- would have been crying after a couple hours. I sat through the whole thing and didnt flinch. 3 sessions probably 11 hours total. cant remember-Didn't even see what the big deal was. So to me- a 3. I've been informed more than once it should have deserved at least an 8. Tattoo guy was joking with me about big Marines who had much less tattoo done who cried like babies. It was kind of annoying me because I didn't know why he was telling me that. Did he want me to sit in the chair longer? Did he want referrals? Was he just trying to blow up my ego? It just didnt really hurt. Why was he being so annoying? Just shut up and do the tattoo. The emotional pain of being cheated on- when I am legitimately, objectively in much less actual pain than someone who has been married for years or has kids and house to deal with-mine is less. But---I react as though my life is over. I am hard as hell and stubborn when it comes to all these LS "right vs wrong" topics. I cry for injustice. This crap really bothers me. But I'm "fine" with a needle repeatedly stabbing me in my leg. Makes me question everything even more (not that I already wasnt) Ugh! I feel like I am missing something huge that I am unable to understand. Then I hate myself for doubting myself and feeling that way. Then I just wish I didn't feel, period. But **** that's not good either... I don't even have a point to make right now. Just laying out the crazy in plain sight. Maybe I should go to bed... I can be all melodramatic again tomorrow. 3
Author ian1966 Posted August 23, 2013 Author Posted August 23, 2013 Well I'm going to continue the hijack- sorry Ian. (Really) And it's with an analogy/story, too- so...sorry to everyone else. Ok here is T/J: Pain levels---- Journey you mentioned one persons 3 being an 8. That brings me to physical pain. I have a tattoo on my leg. It's not huge but definitely not small. Most people- according to the person that did my tat- would have been crying after a couple hours. I sat through the whole thing and didnt flinch. 3 sessions probably 11 hours total. cant remember-Didn't even see what the big deal was. So to me- a 3. I've been informed more than once it should have deserved at least an 8. Tattoo guy was joking with me about big Marines who had much less tattoo done who cried like babies. It was kind of annoying me because I didn't know why he was telling me that. Did he want me to sit in the chair longer? Did he want referrals? Was he just trying to blow up my ego? It just didnt really hurt. Why was he being so annoying? Just shut up and do the tattoo. The emotional pain of being cheated on- when I am legitimately, objectively in much less actual pain than someone who has been married for years or has kids and house to deal with-mine is less. But---I react as though my life is over. I am hard as hell and stubborn when it comes to all these LS "right vs wrong" topics. I cry for injustice. This crap really bothers me. But I'm "fine" with a needle repeatedly stabbing me in my leg. Makes me question everything even more (not that I already wasnt) Ugh! I feel like I am missing something huge that I am unable to understand. Then I hate myself for doubting myself and feeling that way. Then I just wish I didn't feel, period. But **** that's not good either... I don't even have a point to make right now. Just laying out the crazy in plain sight. Maybe I should go to bed... I can be all melodramatic again tomorrow. No worries 'bout the T/J, interests me too. A funny thing I noticed about pain (physical) is that I WAS very sensitive to it, hated needles and dental surgery, but underwent a major op a while back and had tons of needles, canulas, a catheter (ouch!) .. since then any pain now is felt much less intensely, guess I compare it to the memories and delimit it to a great degree... Emotional pain, now that's MUCH harder to handle for me, and my W. We both feel extremes of emotion, both good and bad. I think it has helped in reconciliation process... HOW? well, the bottom line is we have found that we love each other so intensely SINCE the A, knowing we want no one else to ever come between us again, that it "shields" us from even thinking any negative thoughts about the past. We truly look only to the present and the future. We truly have put it behind us a "dark period" with a fantastically bright light at the other end that we are basking in the glow of. BTW since nearly everyone disagrees that true, full blown reconciliation can take place within 3 months after A's ended (mine PA, hers EA) all saying it takes 2 to 5 years, was thinking of starting a thread asking how long it has taken others, but guess this has probably already been done before, yes?
rumbleseat Posted August 23, 2013 Posted August 23, 2013 Very poor analogy, but it did make me chuckle by the gargantuan leap of logic. Nobody is under immediate threat of great bodily injury or death from not being told about an affair. This is a blatant lie told by a man who desperately wants to keep us affair a secret (though he protests to the contrary, they ring very hollow). There was a man and woman who lived up the road from us, but we had just moved in and didn't know him. One day, he committed suicide. Turns out, he had found out about his wife's affair, and that everyone knew but no one had the decency to tell him about it. He was ashamed, and felt that everyone had let him down. It wasn't the act of finding out about the affair that caused this. It was the affair, coupled with the knowledge that everyone else knew but him. Funny how the cheater and the I'm/ow are usually the ones to tout the benefit of secrecy. Gee, I wonder why that is? Could it be that they have the most to lose if it comes out? Then they have the nerve to blat on about how the bs shouldn't be told? Funny that, is it not?
rumbleseat Posted August 23, 2013 Posted August 23, 2013 Ah, the irony of the ow getting her feathers ruffled when someone interferes in her relationship.
Betterthanthis13 Posted August 23, 2013 Posted August 23, 2013 No worries 'bout the T/J, interests me too. A funny thing I noticed about pain (physical) is that I WAS very sensitive to it, hated needles and dental surgery, but underwent a major op a while back and had tons of needles, canulas, a catheter (ouch!) .. since then any pain now is felt much less intensely, guess I compare it to the memories and delimit it to a great degree... Emotional pain, now that's MUCH harder to handle for me, and my W. We both feel extremes of emotion, both good and bad. I think it has helped in reconciliation process... HOW? well, the bottom line is we have found that we love each other so intensely SINCE the A, knowing we want no one else to ever come between us again, that it "shields" us from even thinking any negative thoughts about the past. We truly look only to the present and the future. We truly have put it behind us a "dark period" with a fantastically bright light at the other end that we are basking in the glow of. BTW since nearly everyone disagrees that true, full blown reconciliation can take place within 3 months after A's ended (mine PA, hers EA) all saying it takes 2 to 5 years, was thinking of starting a thread asking how long it has taken others, but guess this has probably already been done before, yes? Maybe it's good to be optimistic- maybe you and W can R faster than most. But it's never good to discredit experience- somehow that always comes back to haunt even if we feel we are different somehow. It's totally possible you have both reached peace towards the PA and EA. anything is possible. - but can you challenge yourself to go deeper? Maybe you have resolved your particular issues wit your wife. But if it takes the average person 2-5 years to recover from infidelity- are you better somehow if you beat that average? Why? Who cares? Isn't it better to take the full time and explore every nuance? After all- that's what you and W are gonna be doing together anyway. You can bask in the glow ad infinitum. There is no rush to get to the glow. The glow is the goal- right? 1
waterwoman Posted August 23, 2013 Posted August 23, 2013 ian, please be aware that this might just be a honeymoon period. At 3 months H and I were like that. The greatest emotion was relief - crisis passed, marriage saved! I too took some of the blame. Then doubts crept in. I became obsessed with what he felt for her, whether he still loved her, whether it only stopped because I found out and might have still been going on if I hadn't. LS helped AND hindered with that!! 14 months down the line and we are doing ok mostly. I still have flashbacks, I still get Ngry, there are still triggers, I doubt my worth regularly, I feel old, ugly, undesirable because he looked elsewhere. H comforts me when I tell him how I feel and I am working hard on my self-esteem but there is still a way to go. Please understand, I am just warning you, she may have a long way to go. Whatever the issues were in your marriage, you chose the worst way to fix them, you did something that hurt her more than you will ever fully understand. Are you committed and strong enough to deal with the aftermath? I hope you are right! But if you aren't, will you be patient and endlessly reassuring and strong for as long as it takes? Good luck x 2
Author ian1966 Posted August 23, 2013 Author Posted August 23, 2013 No, not "better" (?) just claiming that we did reconcile and trying to answer posts that say we could not have. That's all. "Explore every nuance" - not sure what you mean. You mean go over every detail, emotion, repercussion etc? Relive it and analyze the why behind it? Do you mean "glow" like "after glow", like hysterical bonding? Or the "glow" of "true and full" reconciliation? Sorry I'm a bit lost. What benefit would challenging ourselves to go deeper reap?
Zenstudent Posted August 23, 2013 Posted August 23, 2013 No, not "better" (?) just claiming that we did reconcile and trying to answer posts that say we could not have. That's all. "Explore every nuance" - not sure what you mean. You mean go over every detail, emotion, repercussion etc? Relive it and analyze the why behind it? Do you mean "glow" like "after glow", like hysterical bonding? Or the "glow" of "true and full" reconciliation? Sorry I'm a bit lost. What benefit would challenging ourselves to go deeper reap? On the reconciled-or-not-thing: I guess it depends on what you think reconciliation means to you. I notice that you speak for your wife as well when you say that you have both reconciled within these 3 months. I can't speak for you, you may very well have reconciled, but i'll let you in on my own experiences. My wife, WS, was "over" the affair within the first few months, at least that what she said and still claims. Me; I thought I was over it on the 6-months mark, again just after turning the one-year mark, a few times at 18-20 months, and then again just past the 2-year mark. Guess what? It's been almost 2½ years now, I still don't think I am totally "over" it, I'm not fully reconciled, I still question a few times each week, if she's safe to be with or if I should move on for myself. I can have really bad moments from time to time, where my new learned skill to focus and live the present moment is the only method of getting back to sanity. This infidelity s*** is a roller coaster with ups and downs, and if you don't process things to get THROUGH it instead of OVER it, it may bite you in the a$$ in years to come when your wife starts to get angry, or when she just relives the past and start to question herself and maybe you. You and your wife especially, may be different from most people, but it's your confidence in this that seems odd. 3
Betterthanthis13 Posted August 23, 2013 Posted August 23, 2013 No, not "better" (?) just claiming that we did reconcile and trying to answer posts that say we could not have. That's all. "Explore every nuance" - not sure what you mean. You mean go over every detail, emotion, repercussion etc? Relive it and analyze the why behind it? Do you mean "glow" like "after glow", like hysterical bonding? Or the "glow" of "true and full" reconciliation? Sorry I'm a bit lost. What benefit would challenging ourselves to go deeper reap? I'm saying: maybe you are right, and you have reconciled back to where you were before, or even better than you were before, even though its only been a few months. Everybody is different. The 2-5 year thing is common but not absolute. Then take it a step further. OK- so Ian and wife are doing really good in a short amount of time. What could that mean? Could it mean they are just faster at R than other people? Errr... maybe, but unlikely. Could it be that Ian and wife have gotten things "back to normal" in such a short period of time compared to how long most people say reconciliation takes, because they have gotten back to a point that was comfortable before the A (or even a little bit better) BUT they have the potential to develop a much deeper relationship? If so.. How can they do that? Don't leave any stone unturned. I tried really hard not to put any metaphors or analogies into this particular post but I'm an analogy junkie so the stone thing slipped in there. 1
road Posted August 23, 2013 Posted August 23, 2013 I'm saying: maybe you are right, and you have reconciled back to where you were before, or even better than you were before, even though its only been a few months. Everybody is different. The 2-5 year thing is common but not absolute. Then take it a step further. OK- so Ian and wife are doing really good in a short amount of time. What could that mean? Could it mean they are just faster at R than other people? Errr... maybe, but unlikely. Could it be that Ian and wife have gotten things "back to normal" in such a short period of time compared to how long most people say reconciliation takes, because they have gotten back to a point that was comfortable before the A (or even a little bit better) BUT they have the potential to develop a much deeper relationship? If so.. How can they do that? Don't leave any stone unturned. I tried really hard not to put any metaphors or analogies into this particular post but I'm an analogy junkie so the stone thing slipped in there. Six months for the BS mind to process the WS had an affair and get the whole truth. Next six months anger phase. Start of the second year work on recovery begins and trust is being repaired. Not fixed. Being repaired. That is 2 year. Anything less then there is denial, rug sweeping, blame shifting, gas lighting, false recovery. And the goal is not to get back to the old normal but to build a new normal that will affair proof their marriage.
Betterthanthis13 Posted August 23, 2013 Posted August 23, 2013 Six months for the BS mind to process the WS had an affair and get the whole truth. Next six months anger phase. Start of the second year work on recovery begins and trust is being repaired. Not fixed. Being repaired. That is 2 year. Anything less then there is denial, rug sweeping, blame shifting, gas lighting, false recovery. And the goal is not to get back to the old normal but to build a new normal that will affair proof their marriage. I agree that those guidelines are solid, very good advice. I'm asking him to challenge himself so he can discover the true reason why *he* feels his R might be an exception. 1
harrybrown Posted September 10, 2013 Posted September 10, 2013 You should not have had the affair, but you did a good thing by telling her husband. I also hope he knows how to contact you for more information and details. I would like to get emails from my wife's affair partner so that I could know the truth. 1
Author ian1966 Posted September 10, 2013 Author Posted September 10, 2013 harrybrown You should not have had the affair, but you did a good thing by telling her husband. I also hope he knows how to contact you for more information and details. I would like to get emails from my wife's affair partner so that I could know the truth. He (xAP's H) does have contact details of both me and my wife. He hasn't tried to contact as yet. I do get hang-up calls at work a fair bit though... vellocet ian, don't worry about those that are/in your xAP's shoes telling you that you risked ruining her life. It was her affair that jeopardized her marriage, not your disclosure. Her H is no longer in the dark, and hopefully it put an end to her pursuit of contact. Thanks, yes it has put an end to her pursuit. NC stands untarnished to this day. As for the doubters who stick to the 2-5 year rule and anything less is "rug-sweeping" etc... well, maybe that's true in general, but in our case there are several perhaps unusual factors. Wife (actually GF of over 20 years with two adult children out of home) and I were in a very bad place emotionally, she has depression, me less than attentive. This A has shaken our tree so much that we have fallen deeply in love with each other (recall GF had her own EA shortly after my PA) and she has accepted my marriage proposal She has "shaken off" her depression, both of us lost a lot of weight (now healthy weight) and go out clubbing most weekends... having a ball. So we have both experienced both sides of an A as a WS / BS. Being a BS stills like hell, but NC on both sides has been perfect. She still occasionally checks my phone, but I don't mind at all. I trust her completely. The checks are getting rarer and rarer, and only when she is a little bit blue in general. You think this will flare up in the future still and turn bad? thanks for your support.
Recommended Posts