"So you've been having sex with my wife?"

[AlwaysGrowing]

And all this bull **** about keeping someone elses dirty secrets.

 

I owe no one, not one person any loyalty when I witness or have knowledge of them hurting another...not one.

 

The loyalty I have is to myself. What is the right thing to do. The right thing is the truth. Its me that I have to live with. Silence is condoning. Lies of omission are still lies.

[BetrayedH]

I disagree with the percentage theory completely.

 

Each is 100% responsible for their actions. Period. 100%

 

A good way to look at it.

[So happy together]

And all this bull **** about keeping someone elses dirty secrets.

 

I owe no one, not one person any loyalty when I witness or have knowledge of them hurting another...not one.

 

The loyalty I have is to myself. What is the right thing to do. The right thing is the truth. Its me that I have to live with. Silence is condoning. Lies of omission are still lies.

 

And you know, that would be fine if he hadn't been part of the deception to begin with. But since he was part of the problem, he needs to step away. He is doing it for selfish reasons.

 

Besides his general attitude of "(pant pant) I'm a good boy now, huh? I'm such a good boy! Let's tell on everyone else that is pissing on the neighbor's lawn because suddenly I'm reformed!!" No thanks. Just distasteful.

 

I'd feel better if it was a stranger, or a friend who told... but this guy? He has NO RIGHT. If the BS wants to tell, she can. But HE should not be in the middle.

[BetrayedH]

And you know, that would be fine if he hadn't been part of the deception to begin with. But since he was part of the problem, he needs to step away. He is doing it for selfish reasons.

 

Besides his general attitude of "(pant pant) I'm a good boy now, huh? I'm such a good boy! Let's tell on everyone else that is pissing on the neighbor's lawn because suddenly I'm reformed!!" No thanks. Just distasteful.

 

I'd feel better if it was a stranger, or a friend who told... but this guy? He has NO RIGHT. If the BS wants to tell, she can. But HE should not be in the middle.

 

What if NO ONE is going to tell? I mean, we can't realistically expect that the wayward is going to tell on themselves. So do we just leave the BS to he deceived for life? There is an actual real person being hurt.

 

In Ian's case, it's apparent that he had no choice. He's not going to be knighted for exposing.

[AlwaysGrowing]

I agree that the other BS would be the better choice.

 

What if the ap is single, and actually feels remorse. Wants to take responsibility and the consequences? Should they not inform the bs?

 

I do believe that some ap would not do it for spite, their motivation would be to start behaving like a decent person and start living self respect. They would take their lumps so to speak, because they know they earned it.

 

It aint easy to face the person who you abused/hurt.

 

Remember, the first person you betrayed was yourself, when you decided it was okay to harm another.

[AlwaysGrowing]

Personally I do not find it distasteful when someone has learned from their choices.

 

Why do you think that the most powerful anti drunk driving speakers are those that did it and harmed/killed another?

 

Why are drug addiction counsellors often former addicts? Because they can spot the bull shiz a mile away.

[So happy together]

Personally I do not find it distasteful when someone has learned from their choices.

 

Why do you think that the most powerful anti drunk driving speakers are those that did it and harmed/killed another?

 

Why are drug addiction counsellors often former addicts? Because they can spot the bull shiz a mile away.

 

He's not counseling anyone. He's ratting someone out. He doesn't know where they are in their M. Or where she is in her life. Maybe she as on the mend. Maybe they would have been fine. He's blown it up. Sorry. I'm not ever going to think it is okay to disclose. Clearly, his marriage is none of the AP's business. Therefore, neither then is her marriage any of his business.

 

Maybe they should all get together and have a meeting, the four of them? At least then she would have been prepared.

[road]

Yes but he owed no loyalty to this guy. If two people conspire to hurt you, one is some random bloke, the other is your wife who took vows of loyalty to you, 99% of your anger should rightfully be directed at your wife, not the random guy. The random guy didn't betray you. He's a stranger or maybe an acquaintance to you. Your wife betrayed you.

 

So according to you, if my son and his friend break into my house and trash the place, I should only have anger at my son, very little towards the other **** that destroyed my house? That is not how life works, my anger would be at both of them. For the little **** that I didnt even know...more so.

 

Its like sitting on a bus, and a complete stranger walks up to you and takes a sledge hammer to your knees. They showed you one side of themselves (their choice), and exactly how do you now think you are "wired" to respond to them in the future?

 

And lets be REAL here, everyone knows what being married means. All of society recognizes that relationship and all that it entails. For you to state that an ap owes no one vows, that is to say that a thief doesnt owe me not to steal my stuff, based on the fact that he doesnt know me. That unless I secure his "word" that he wont steal my stuff, I shouldnt expect it.

 

 

Trashing of your house is not the same a your WS trashing around all over your house with the AP.

 

Also you have no reason to forgive the son's friend or ever allow the friend back into your house or life again.

 

The son on the other hand.

[AlwaysGrowing]

I have more respect for someone who acknowledges the harm they have done to another, than a person who just walks away...and goes "oh well, at least I didn't "really" hurt them, because I never told" aka..what they dont know wont hurt them.

 

 

And if you have more respect for someone who doesnt confess their wrong doing to all that they have wronged...then fine. That is who you are.

[Betterthanthis13]

Are we still talking about infidelity, or did we switch topics to organized crime and not being a rat? This debate about loyalty is reminding me of an episode of the Sopranos when Carmella found out about Tony's indiscretions. Didn't Tony have some girl he was sleeping with whacked over something like this?

[So happy together]

Are we still talking about infidelity, or did we switch topics to organized crime and not being a rat? This debate about loyalty is reminding me of an episode of the Sopranos when Carmella found out about Tony's indiscretions. Didn't Tony have some girl he was sleeping with whacked over something like this?

 

Well, ouch.

[AlwaysGrowing]

Road, I agree.

 

That is why I don't understand why some think the ap has zero responsibility and that the bs anger/hurt with the ap is misplaced...NO IT ISNT.

 

It is perfectly placed. A stranger showed you up front, one side of themselves, and it isnt pretty. why would you have any positive/forgiving feelings about them EVER.

 

Where the ws has shown many sides of themselves. It is easier to have compassion for someone who has been loving to you in the past.

 

An ap? Has done nothing but hurt you.

[AlwaysGrowing]

Are we still talking about infidelity, or did we switch topics to organized crime and not being a rat? This debate about loyalty is reminding me of an episode of the Sopranos when Carmella found out about Tony's indiscretions. Didn't Tony have some girl he was sleeping with whacked over something like this?

 

 

LOL

 

I find it fascinating to watch the hamsters at work.

 

How one can have no ethical dilemma with lying and cheating, but their sense of "fairness" when it pertains to themselves comes thrusting to the forefront when the tables are turned.

[velvette]

And you know, that would be fine if he hadn't been part of the deception to begin with. But since he was part of the problem, he needs to step away. He is doing it for selfish reasons.

 

Besides his general attitude of "(pant pant) I'm a good boy now, huh? I'm such a good boy! Let's tell on everyone else that is pissing on the neighbor's lawn because suddenly I'm reformed!!" No thanks. Just distasteful.

 

I'd feel better if it was a stranger, or a friend who told... but this guy? He has NO RIGHT. If the BS wants to tell, she can. But HE should not be in the middle.

 

He has every right as we all do to tell his truth to whomever he wishes. Sometimes one person's truth is unpleasant to another person hearing it or impacted by it. Just a fact of life.

 

As for Ian's attitude and ideas about reconciliation, some of the thinking expressed is a bit foggy. Not unusual for someone recently out of an A. Doesn't change the fact that he's free to tell his truth to whomever he wants.

[So happy together]

He has every right as we all do to tell his truth to whomever he wishes. Sometimes one person's truth is unpleasant to another person hearing it or impacted by it. Just a fact of life.

 

As for Ian's attitude and ideas about reconciliation, some of the thinking expressed is a bit foggy. Not unusual for someone recently out of an A. Doesn't change the fact that he's free to tell his truth to whomever he wants.

 

Yes, you are correct. He has the right. But that doesn't make it the best thing to do. Gee, I hope nothing comes back on him. I hope she doesn't try to retaliate.

[Realist3]

Since you have such an interest in my A I will answer those questions.

 

What, your AP told you that I suppose? Nice logic. Interesting. So what happened when your AP found out her H's affair?

 

The second time she asked me out she told me about it, and then showed me the evidence from emails. He gaslighted her so heavily that she doubted her own conclusions, and she asked me what I thought. I confirmed to her that she was indeed right. After she confronted him, before she knew me, he took everything underground.

 

Because she is f*****G you. Can you say "revenge affair"?

 

Why are you so concerned about him finding out if he is in an affair as well? Why all the secrecy?

 

I'm not stupid. I know it started as a revenge affair. I asked her point blank if she would be doing this he her H had not had an affair, and she said, "No." She was the one that pursued me.

 

He is very possessive, and the secrecy is a must. I'm not going to get into it again, but he is very controlling. Secondly, it is what we have decided is best for us.

 

Quite the contradiction... You claim you know he had an affair yet at the same time you claim not to know the reason that led his wife to stray?

You are obviously very close to your AP and yet you don't know? Come on.

 

There is no contradiction. I never said I don't know the reason she had the affair. I knew right from the start. Yes, it was a revenge affair, but also a desire for some independence.

 

You...

- defend your affair to the death

- boast of all your magical methods of keeping it going all in order to prevent AP's husband from finding out, even listing them as a "guide" to others like you... oh wait, didn't you defend that by saying it was a guide to assist other BS's in how to find out? talk about playing both sides of the game!

- know AP's H has put surveillance on AP, but not found concrete evidence (yet)

- have a W that knows of the affair and remains steadfast to you (can you say "doormat")

- go off at me for dobbing in my AP to her H... that really stung you yeah.. the thought is just so abhorrent isn't it! As you said you would never betray your AP... just as well your good wife knows about your shenanigans so you wont never be put in such a position!

 

I'm not sure what defending my affair means. I am giving a perspective from one side of this issue. I don't need to defend it to anyone.

 

This is a support site. If information I can give in terms of what methods are used to avoid detection that could help someone, great.

 

No, it didn't sting me at all, I simply expressed my opinion about what you did. In almost every thread on this board you have people expressing different opinions. Seems to me like you may be the one that feels stung.

 

If your AP split with her H, what would you do?

Leave your wife and get with her? Bring fantasy life into real world? (good luck)

 

On a cruder note, just how much of the thrill is knowing your f*****g another mans wife? (Yes I admit it was a part of mine.)

 

Just be careful you don't fall in the pool while you're admiring your own reflection, eh?

 

I think you should change your misleading username

 

Yep, you are definitely stung.

 

I don't gain a thrill from that at all.

[Realist3]

Realist "Three people besides my wife know."

 

Translates to

 

Your wife knows and is keeping quiet because of humiliation and whatever blackmail you are holding over her head...and she will keep quiet as long as it suits her motives the. She will blow it up.

 

Your preteen daughter knows, as does whine er her BFF and likely her bffs mom because she had to share her distress at being in on her fathers affair.

 

Your mow eldest daughter, her BFF, her boyfriend and her college sorority sisters and each of their boyfriends know...same reason plus drunken girl talk.

 

Your buddy, who you told and his significant other and her BFF etc.

 

The people who sense the sexual current between you two and have witnessed the deep conversations...

 

And so on...

 

I wasn't counting the daughters, so that would be 5. Like I said, time. Most of these people have known almost from the beginning. It has been years now.

[Realist3]

That is why I worry about you. That puts you, MOW, and both your BS's in the role of martyr- sacrificing personal happiness for the sake of appearances and for doing what you think is best for the family units.

 

That was the climate in my house growing up. My mom attempted to sacrifice her personal happiness in order to give her children a good life. Not because of an affair, but for different reasons.

 

The problem is- it backfires. All that good intent, and the great lengths you have to go to to keep juggling all the balls in the air takes a tremendous toll on you. It's torture. It's especially worse torture because you are so good at it.

 

My siblings and I just wanted my mom to be happy. She was always pretending to be happy but she never was. We had what looked like a good life, but it was all a sham.

 

My best friends parents were the kind of couple who were still in love with each other after years of marriage. It was obvious. It was real- not an act. The climate in her house was love. It was not stressful like my house. There was no big turmoil in my house. No yelling or anything. But the climate was all wrong.

 

If given the choice between having my mom happy, or having the appearance of a perfect home, my siblings and I would have all unanimously chosen her happiness over anything else. Were my tennis lessons really that important? No.

 

We were never given that choice, because she refused to be honest with us. She thought she was doing the right thing. We saw right through it and worried about her, but we were never given a choice. She sacrificed and kept up appearances for as long as she could. Then she had a mental breakdown. She still hasn't recovered 20 years later. She feels like a failure because she wasnt able to keep it together. She still to this day does not understand that we never wanted her to keep it together. We wanted her to be happy.

 

You are very strong and very smart and that is the worst part of it. You are clever enough to keep this whole thing going indefinitely- at your own expense.

 

I have no reason to judge you or tell you what to do- you really seem like you have it all figured out. The only thing I'd like is to see you happy.

 

Thank you for the kind words and the perspective, I really appreciate it. You bring up many issues that I think about quite a bit.

[Realist3]

The people who sense the sexual current between you two and have witnessed the deep conversations...

 

At the end of the day people can suspect whatever they want. There was only one that I would call deep that anyone could see. That was certainly not enough to make any sort of firm accusation. They have no idea what we were talking about, just that it was heated.

[It-is-what-it-is.]

At the end of the day people can suspect whatever they want. There was only one that I would call deep that anyone could see. That was certainly not enough to make any sort of firm accusation. They have no idea what we were talking about, just that it was heated.

 

Oh Realist don't be naive.

 

See the thing is this..

 

I don't really have a single issue with divorce...happens all the time...work at it and people develop a way of dealing with each other and life goes on.

 

While not a proponent of affairs as a coping mechanism, they also happen, and what I look for, hope for is some sense that someone has taken the wrong path, and working to self correct, make amends and minimize the damage to innocents (BS, CHILDREN, FRIENDS, FAMILY)

 

In your threads you come off as unrepentant, unapologetic and entitled.

 

You involve your child and your APs child in your affair, essentially using them as sounding boards to justify your affair. You explain that you know your child better than we do, so true. But is it really good parenting and in their best interests to have to keep these secrets for up you and from their other parent? How do you think your daughters feel knowing your intention is to divorce her mother (and her husband)and marry your AP, but that your wife (and her husband) do not know. Is that not terribly cruel to your daughter?

 

And yet you stay in your marriage, under the really twisted, really cruel logic that its better for your children to not come from a broken home?

 

So yeah. You get sympathy from some here, and you give advice on how to have an affair on this advice board. But you aren't listening to anyone else about the long term impact this will have on your children.

 

I asked you about this once and your reply was something about helping her learn make good decisions "later"....and that my friend is the definition of parental selfishness. You are protecting your selfish interests at the expense of your children, and your APs children.

[jlola]

And you know, that would be fine if he hadn't been part of the deception to begin with. But since he was part of the problem, he needs to step away. He is doing it for selfish reasons.

 

Besides his general attitude of "(pant pant) I'm a good boy now, huh? I'm such a good boy! Let's tell on everyone else that is pissing on the neighbor's lawn because suddenly I'm reformed!!" No thanks. Just distasteful.

 

I'd feel better if it was a stranger, or a friend who told... but this guy? He has NO RIGHT. If the BS wants to tell, she can. But HE should not be in the middle.

 

According to your theory, noone can reform? I thought you said many do?

 

As for not being a "snitch"! Wow! There are people who commit crimes, burglaries,murder whatever who do tell on their accomplice. That is the right thing to do. That is what we count on to keep the "bad" people where they belong. TOGETHER.

 

There are kids who do bad things in or hurt another. They usually do tell on their accomplice if they are smart.Most have parents ho encourage them to out their accomplice. People should have consequeces. If you did not want to do the time, you should not do the crime.

 

For me to whine, the person who helped me rob a house is a "bad guy" because he told on me is emotionally immature. I NEED to focus on the fact I was willing to rob the house and try to understand what I need to do to become a better human being.. If there are consequences, it does not matter who told. I need to look within myself to see what allowed me to have such low character in the first place.

 

The only people who think telling is the wrong thing to do are the bad folks who are either in jail or still committing misconducts themselves. I

 

But a reformed thief may eventually get respect from people. Unreformed ones or ones who refuse to name their accomplice usually get no pity from the justice system or anyone who has been privy to their actions.

[Realist3]

Oh Realist don't be naive.

 

See the thing is this..

 

I don't really have a single issue with divorce...happens all the time...work at it and people develop a way of dealing with each other and life goes on.

 

 

 

In your threads you come off as unrepentant, unapologetic and entitled.

 

That is probably accurate. I don't know about entitled, but yeah I'm not in any way sorry I am involved in this affair.

 

You involve your child and your APs child in your affair, essentially using them as sounding boards to justify your affair. You explain that you know your child better than we do, so true. But is it really good parenting and in their best interests to have to keep these secrets for up you and from their other parent? How do you think your daughters feel knowing your intention is to divorce her mother (and her husband)and marry your AP, but that your wife (and her husband) do not know. Is that not terribly cruel to your daughter?

 

First I will say that I have read and understand your concerns, but she is not really involved in my affair, she just knows about it. Heck, my wife has brought it up in front of her. It is not something that is brought up on a regular basis. In fact I can count on one hand the number of times it has been discussed in the last several years. Our most recent discussion wasn't really about my A, but the divorces some of her friend's parents have recently gone through. She had questions and I answered them. It is not like those friends won't be talking about it, so it was not a problem for me to give her a more mature perspective.

 

And yet you stay in your marriage, under the really twisted, really cruel logic that its better for your children to not come from a broken home?

 

Yes, I understand that, and believe me weigh that option on a frequent basis, but I'm just not there yet. I can't explain the whole situation and all of the ins and outs, which might give a better perspective of my decision, but right now after much thought this is the course of action that I believe is best. I don't expect people to understand it.

 

 

 

I asked you about this once and your reply was something about helping her learn make good decisions "later"....and that my friend is the definition of parental selfishness. You are protecting your selfish interests at the expense of your children, and your APs children.

 

That is your opinion and you are certainly entitled to it. But our children are well adjusted, intelligent, and happy in every possible way.

[Realist3]

But a reformed thief may eventually get respect from people. Unreformed ones or ones who refuse to name their accomplice usually get no pity from the justice system or anyone who has been privy to their actions.

 

Actually, in the justice system, snitches and informants are not respected by prosecutors and judges at all. They use them, but they are disparaged at every turn. i have known of several cases where the informant's identity was purposefully leaked.

[It-is-what-it-is.]

That is your opinion and you are certainly entitled to it. But our children are well adjusted, intelligent, and happy in every possible way.

 

For now.

 

I am assuming you have consulted with experts in the field of child psychology who have assured you that confiding in your young children issues with your marriage and your affairs will have no lasting impact on their ability to form lasting bonds with others, develop trust in committed relationships, pick for a SO someone who treats them with respect? When they do not and have not experienced these things in their formative years?

 

That this situation will not lead your children to believe they are not worthy of being treated well and with dignity, after all, you are not treating your wife, (nor her you apparently) nor your MOW or her betrayed spouse.

 

Children repeat the mistakes of their parents because that's all they know. That's the whole concept of FOO.

 

Your choices now, are negatively impacting them now and for years to come. Does the affair feel worth it? I am not saying, stay with your wife! Clearly you have no respect for her or your MOWBS, you are not staying for love or financial reasons.

 

If this is so right, which you continue to say, unapologetically. Then make the change. Stop the drama, stop the nonsense, the humiliation, the chuck holding and the negative impacts to your kids.

 

Or is it the drama, and nonsense etc. that makes this interesting and why you want it status quo?

[Realist3]

I appreciate the concern, but our children are just fine. This is not in their face. I can't un-ring the bell. They will be just fine.