"So you've been having sex with my wife?"

[ian1966]

OK, sure STD's in general are a risk with all affairs of course...

I didn't mean to discount their significance one iota..

I'm sure they could be raised as an issue in regard to most if not all threads regarding affairs.

 

I thought you did the right thing because of this fact specifically.

 

Thanks, I must confess though that that was obviously not my motivation.

 

But ranting on about HIV rates, horror stories about being pregnant and getting one,

etc... doesn't seem relevant just to THIS thread is what I am saying..

.. I don't mean "ranting" in a negative sense..

 

Its very important but almost certainly wasteful to have these distributed across a multitude of threads and retyped endlessly whenever the subject is raised (or thread jacked)...

 

Perhaps their should be a pinned post with all these stories combined that could be referred to in almost every thread?

 

No disrespect intended :-)

[sadwithouthim]

From your AP's perspective, obviously you didn't do the right thing. She didn't want you to tell her husband but you told against her wishes.

 

 

 

Typically when you read about these things it's a bunny-boiler female OW who wants to cause trouble for her Affair Partner. Genders reversed from the normal but otherwise it's the same. Most male AP partners don't seek a confrontation with their MW's betrayed spouses as it doesn't really accomplish anything except perhaps unnecessary drama. If that's what you wanted, it sounds like you got it.

 

 

 

 

Selfish, spiteful, infantile, narcissistic, dishonest....shall I go on?

 

 

 

 

 

Basic reaction is that you sound like a male bunny boiler. Typical married male cheating with a married woman is to take the sex for as long as it's there and then when it dries up to move on to the next one.

 

Absolutely no reason whatsoever for you to do this since you were getting back with your wife in any event. It was pure spite on your part. Don't say you wanted to do the right thing since if that were the case you wouldn't have had the affair in the first place. So doing the right thing is not even in your tool box.

 

 

 

 

I'm sure you will spin the responses whatever way you believe suits your purpose.

 

 

 

 

So any criticism of your actions equates to someone else being "jealous" of you?

 

"Narcissistic" I think is apt.

 

I was also thinking he sounds a bit narcissistic. Mostly because he seemed to put all the blame on MOW, like he was mostly an innocent victim of "that kind of woman" that BH married.

 

In my A, I have put most of the accountability on myself. Neither of us planned on having an affair.

[Betterthanthis13]

Quote:

If my neighbor's house is on fire in the middle of the night I will definitely make sure they know instead of saying, "oh that's their business...I don't want to disturb their peaceful slumber."

 

Very poor analogy, but it did make me chuckle by the gargantuan leap of logic.

 

Nobody is under immediate threat of great bodily injury or death from not being told about an affair..

 

Ok new analogy- You help get some stuff out of your neighbor's attic and notice a live wire that has the potential to spark a fire. Or it could not. The live wire has most likely been there for years and it has not sparked a fire yet. It will be very expensive and cause the neighbor a lot of grief to get that part of the house rewired.

 

Tell the neighbor or mind your own business? I'd tell but it seems like the people who advise "don't tell" would prefer to spare the neighbor the pain of having to make the choice to get the attic rewired than advise the neighbor of the risk that the house has the potential to catch on fire. Also- most people who's house catches on fire do not die or get burned in the fire. Their house just catches on fire. Sometime the fire department gets there in time to save the house. Sometimes they don't and the whole house burns down.

 

Tell or don't tell?

[Realist3]

Quote:

If my neighbor's house is on fire in the middle of the night I will definitely make sure they know instead of saying, "oh that's their business...I don't want to disturb their peaceful slumber."

 

Very poor analogy, but it did make me chuckle by the gargantuan leap of logic.

 

Nobody is under immediate threat of great bodily injury or death from not being told about an affair..

 

Ok new analogy- You help get some stuff out of your neighbor's attic and notice a live wire that has the potential to spark a fire. Or it could not. The live wire has most likely been there for years and it has not sparked a fire yet. It will be very expensive and cause the neighbor a lot of grief to get that part of the house rewired.

 

Tell the neighbor or mind your own business? I'd tell but it seems like the people who advise "don't tell" would prefer to spare the neighbor the pain of having to make the choice to get the attic rewired than advise the neighbor of the risk that the house has the potential to catch on fire. Also- most people who's house catches on fire do not die or get burned in the fire. Their house just catches on fire. Sometime the fire department gets there in time to save the house. Sometimes they don't and the whole house burns down.

 

Tell or don't tell?

 

Nice try, but still doesn't work.

 

You can go to the breaker box shut that circuit down and easily tape off the live wire.

 

The point is there really is no compelling case to be made of some sort of impending danger that requires disclosure of an affair, especially from the AP. Even the whole "truth" argument doesn't hold much water. It is nothing more than a rationalization. In its purest sense it is a second betrayal.

[Realist3]

Yeah I'm not going to talk about this anymore. I showed you how someone actually died because of infidelity. YOu think having raising other people's children is no big deal. And you still hold. I just shouldn't engage adulterers at all. You have too much pride at stake.

 

That is probably a wise choice. You seem to be a little on edge. I can give you thousands of examples of people dying because of all sorts of things. To pretend that disclosing infidelity is somehow some noble act of saving someone's life is ludicrous at best.

[janedoe67]

I am not sure the choice to tell the truth would save someone's life....

 

People's choices about honesty DO, however, reveal pretty clear things about a person's character.

 

But then character is not always a person's priority.

[Betterthanthis13]

Nice try, but still doesn't work.

 

You can go to the breaker box shut that circuit down and easily tape off the live wire.

 

The point is there really is no compelling case to be made of some sort of impending danger that requires disclosure of an affair, especially from the AP. Even the whole "truth" argument doesn't hold much water. It is nothing more than a rationalization. In its purest sense it is a second betrayal.

 

No I can not. It's not my house, and I am not an electrician and I don't even really know what a breaker box is. The thing with all the switches?

 

Maybe my neighbor could tape the wire. But I would have to tell him it was there in order for him to do something about it.

[Turtles]

I was also thinking he sounds a bit narcissistic. Mostly because he seemed to put all the blame on MOW, like he was mostly an innocent victim of "that kind of woman" that BH married.

 

In my A, I have put most of the accountability on myself. Neither of us planned on having an affair.

 

Even though the motives were questionable I believe that was the right thing to do, and though he acted wrong by cheating in the first place, "better late than never". The husband certainly deserved to know the truth, and it's going to suck for the AP but she has noone but herself to blame for it. Maybe that helped her get out of a failed marriage so who is to say that he "ruined her life".

[Betterthanthis13]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Realist3

Nice try, but still doesn't work.

 

You can go to the breaker box shut that circuit down and easily tape off the live wire.

 

The point is there really is no compelling case to be made of some sort of impending danger that requires disclosure of an affair, especially from the AP. Even the whole "truth" argument doesn't hold much water. It is nothing more than a rationalization. In its purest sense it is a second betrayal.

 

No I can not. It's not my house, and I am not an electrician and I don't even really know what a breaker box is. The thing with all the switches?

 

Maybe my neighbor could tape the wire. But I would have to tell him it was there in order for him to do something about it.

 

 

My choices in this analogy are:

 

1. I decide the live wire is no big deal and tell him about it

2. I decide the live wire is a threat and I tell him about it

3. I decide the live wire is no big deal and I don't tell him about it

4. I decide the live wire is a threat and I don't tell him about it

 

Maybe he can fix the live wire with some tape in 5 minutes. Maybe the live wire is only one problem and once he looks into it he finds out his whole house is wired wrong.

 

I can't predict the future, I can't predict how much of a big deal the live wire is. Maybe its a big deal. Maybe not.

 

Shouldn't he be the one to figure that out?

 

Maybe I secretly hate my neighbor. Maybe I secretly hate the last electrician who worked on his house. Those facts are irrelevant- my choices to tell him or not tell him remain the same 4 choices no matter what I think about the people involved. It's his problem, not mine. I can choose to inform him of the problem or I can choose not to.

 

Maybe I don't tell him, the wire stays there undiscovered forever and nothing bad happens to his house.

 

I'd still tell him.

[Realist3]

No I can not. It's not my house, and I am not an electrician and I don't even really know what a breaker box is. The thing with all the switches?

 

Maybe my neighbor could tape the wire. But I would have to tell him it was there in order for him to do something about it.

 

If betrayal is wrong; then it is wrong each and every time it occurs. Two wrongs don't make a right.

[Realist3]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Realist3

Nice try, but still doesn't work.

 

You can go to the breaker box shut that circuit down and easily tape off the live wire.

 

The point is there really is no compelling case to be made of some sort of impending danger that requires disclosure of an affair, especially from the AP. Even the whole "truth" argument doesn't hold much water. It is nothing more than a rationalization. In its purest sense it is a second betrayal.

 

No I can not. It's not my house, and I am not an electrician and I don't even really know what a breaker box is. The thing with all the switches?

 

Maybe my neighbor could tape the wire. But I would have to tell him it was there in order for him to do something about it.

 

 

My choices in this analogy are:

 

1. I decide the live wire is no big deal and tell him about it

2. I decide the live wire is a threat and I tell him about it

3. I decide the live wire is no big deal and I don't tell him about it

4. I decide the live wire is a threat and I don't tell him about it

 

Maybe he can fix the live wire with some tape in 5 minutes. Maybe the live wire is only one problem and once he looks into it he finds out his whole house is wired wrong.

 

I can't predict the future, I can't predict how much of a big deal the live wire is. Maybe its a big deal. Maybe not.

 

Shouldn't he be the one to figure that out?

 

Maybe I secretly hate my neighbor. Maybe I secretly hate the last electrician who worked on his house. Those facts are irrelevant- my choices to tell him or not tell him remain the same 4 choices no matter what I think about the people involved. It's his problem, not mine. I can choose to inform him of the problem or I can choose not to.

 

Maybe I don't tell him, the wire stays there undiscovered forever and nothing bad happens to his house.

 

I'd still tell him.

 

 

I applaud your effort, but it still falls short on a logical, and even a moral level.

 

Where your analogy falls apart is that you are not including the other person that knows about the live wire, and that is the spouse of your neighbor. You have built a relationship based on leaving that live wire a secret. Those were the agreed upon conditions. To suddenly decide that the neighbor you don't have any agreement with should know about the live wire is a betrayal. It is as simple as that.

[Betterthanthis13]

If betrayal is wrong; then it is wrong each and every time it occurs. Two wrongs don't make a right.

 

I do think betrayal is always the wrong choice. But I don't think cheating is always a major crime. I have been informed of some stories where it doesn't seem like a bad thing since coming to LS. There are posters on here who are in affairs or who have been in affairs in the past that I think are very empathetic, nice people who I genuinely like. I totally understand why they made the choice they did. They are so different in motivation and behavior from my personal experience with a serial cheater that I would never even put them in the same category in my head.

 

I just don't understand why telling a BS could even be considered "wrong". Yes, I can imagine some cases where it would probably be unnecessary to tell,or cause more harm than good. But that does not make the choice to inform a BS of an affair the "wrong" thing to do by default.

 

If that idea could be explained to me-maybe I'm missing something- I might change my opinion and start thinking that it is better not to tell. I have just never heard a convincing argument as to why informing a BS is objectively the "wrong" thing to do. I feel, objectively, it is the "right" thing to do.

 

I can see why sometimes someone would make the choice not to tell a BS. I can understand why people sometimes choose to do the wrong thing when they consider it the lesser of two evils. That just doesn't make an objectively wrong action "right". Or gray.

 

It might be the right choice for that person at that time- but definitely not "the objective right choice by default".

[Betterthanthis13]

I applaud your effort, but it still falls short on a logical, and even a moral level.

 

Where your analogy falls apart is that you are not including the other person that knows about the live wire, and that is the spouse of your neighbor. You have built a relationship based on leaving that live wire a secret. Those were the agreed upon conditions. To suddenly decide that the neighbor you don't have any agreement with should know about the live wire is a betrayal. It is as simple as that.

 

Good point.

 

Interestingly, my neighbor's ex-wife is the one that put the live wire there. I helped her. She isn't telling and neither am I.

[Betterthanthis13]

Good point.

 

Interestingly, my neighbor's ex-wife is the one that put the live wire there. I helped her. She isn't telling and neither am I.

 

Oh crap now my neighbors house is on fire.... I hope he doesn't find out I was an accomplice to planting that live wire

 

Maybe it was a kitchen fire and ill never get caught. Wait- why do I care? I didn't do anything wrong in the first place. It's all his ex wife's fault. I wonder if the fire Marshall will see it that way when they do their arson investigation. Man, I wish I had just told him about the wire.

[Realist3]

You crack me up.

[Journee]

I agree.

 

Being played a fool while you waste precious years of your life should also not be underestimated. I want the 12 years of my life back that I wasted on that marriage. I also want the subsequent 12 back where I am stuck living within a 30-mile radius of that bitch so we can co-parent together. Affairs steal years away from a person's life that they will never get back. Have the balls to fess up so at least THAT can stop.

 

This point is glossed over quite a bit also. We get one shot at life and no guarantees on time frames. If I only get these 28 years I'm at least glad I have a piece of the truth and can make informed decisions. To me, this is a huge plus for telling. If one wants to waste life away in the shadows fine.. don't take me with you though.

[Realist3]

Being played a fool while you waste precious years of your life should also not be underestimated. I want the 12 years of my life back that I wasted on that marriage. I also want the subsequent 12 back where I am stuck living within a 30-mile radius of that bitch so we can co-parent together. Affairs steal years away from a person's life that they will never get back. Have the balls to fess up so at least THAT can stop.

 

I would suggest it is poor decisions initially that steal years of your life. If your wife had not cheated, it still would not have made those years any less of a sham.

[BetrayedH]

I would suggest it is poor decisions initially that steal years of your life. If your wife had not cheated, it still would not have made those years any less of a sham.

 

So it was my choice of a spouse that was a poor decision? Hmm.

 

We spent 5 years dating before we were engaged and another year and a half or so before we were married. It wasn't a rushed decision by most people's standards. We had pretty clear conversations about our agreement to stay faithful, communicate, and so forth. We made a commitment to each other for life and there wasn't anything unclear about the expectations.

 

The problem is that she broke her end of the bargain and worse yet, lied about it so she could keep me upholding my end of the bargain. That went on for over a year and only stopped when I discovered. That is mostly certainly a full year of my life that could have spent otherwise. If she wanted to play single, why is that year+ of my life being wasted on her? Why not release me from my end of the bargain? I would have been thankful to have ANYONE help me get out of keeping my end of a contract where my partner was betraying me. In particular, because it wasn't something so minor as money but something major (like a fuc king year of my life I'll never get back).

 

The fact is that my wife had plenty of time to make an informed decision about whether she wanted to enter into that agreement with me. She made a choice. I kept my end of the bargain. And without saying a damn thing, she broke her end of the bargain with huge consequences for me and for my kids.

 

Look Realist, if you had a partner and you mutually invested years of blood, sweat, and tears into the project only to have your partner betray you and ruin everything you had worked so hard on, you'd be freaking pissed. And you'd be grateful to anyone that told you so you could stop investing in those efforts. And you wouldn't give a damn if you found out from you partner's partner in crime. You'd just be glad you knew.

[Betterthanthis13]

if you had a partner and you mutually invested years of blood, sweat, and tears into the project only to have your partner betray you and ruin everything you had worked so hard on, you'd be freaking pissed. And you'd be grateful to anyone that told you so you could stop investing in those efforts. And you wouldn't give a damn if you found out from you partner's partner in crime. You'd just be glad you knew.

 

yes- add on that you did your due diligence prior to entering this business contract and had no reason to suspect your partner of shady business practices, until you read in the newspaper about your partner screwing you over-years into the deal

[Realist3]

So it was my choice of a spouse that was a poor decision? Hmm.

 

We spent 5 years dating before we were engaged and another year and a half or so before we were married. It wasn't a rushed decision by most people's standards. We had pretty clear conversations about our agreement to stay faithful, communicate, and so forth. We made a commitment to each other for life and there wasn't anything unclear about the expectations.

 

The problem is that she broke her end of the bargain and worse yet, lied about it so she could keep me upholding my end of the bargain. That went on for over a year and only stopped when I discovered. That is mostly certainly a full year of my life that could have spent otherwise. If she wanted to play single, why is that year+ of my life being wasted on her? Why not release me from my end of the bargain? I would have been thankful to have ANYONE help me get out of keeping my end of a contract where my partner was betraying me. In particular, because it wasn't something so minor as money but something major (like a fuc king year of my life I'll never get back).

 

The fact is that my wife had plenty of time to make an informed decision about whether she wanted to enter into that agreement with me. She made a choice. I kept my end of the bargain. And without saying a damn thing, she broke her end of the bargain with huge consequences for me and for my kids.

 

Look Realist, if you had a partner and you mutually invested years of blood, sweat, and tears into the project only to have your partner betray you and ruin everything you had worked so hard on, you'd be freaking pissed. And you'd be grateful to anyone that told you so you could stop investing in those efforts. And you wouldn't give a damn if you found out from you partner's partner in crime. You'd just be glad you knew.

 

 

Probably both of your choices. I dated my wife for 8 years before we married and look at what I have? My stepping outside didn't change the basic fundamental.

[BetrayedH]

Probably both of your choices. I dated my wife for 8 years before we married and look at what I have? My stepping outside didn't change the basic fundamental.

 

Yeah, my poor choice for not predicting that she'd become a cheating liar. Her poor choice for becoming one.

[Betterthanthis13]

To be fair I can see Realist point here but I don't think it applies to BH.

 

In my case- I had plentty of red flags and I went against my better judgement to involve myself with xbf. That is my responsibility.

[Realist3]

Yeah, my poor choice for not predicting that she'd become a cheating liar. Her poor choice for becoming one.

 

You are acting like the cheating was the source of the problem, but it was but a symptom.

[AlwaysGrowing]

You are acting like the cheating was the source of the problem, but it was but a symptom.

 

 

The choice to cheat does not say ONE thing about the betrayed.

 

The choice to cheat speaks volumes about those involved.

[BetrayedH]

You are acting like the cheating was the source of the problem, but it was but a symptom.

 

To some extent, that's true. My wife's hidden brokenness was the source of the problem; the cheating was a symptom of that.