VivianLee Posted November 11, 2004 Posted November 11, 2004 Originally posted by KissMyTiara I honestly think that being involved in this affair in the first place has opened my eyes to a lot of things, especially as to why men stray. I know that I cannot prevent my future husband from cheating, but I do know that there are things a W can do to "affair proof" her marriage as best as possible. The MM will stray to an OW when the OW is better at other things than just sex, darling: 1. Providing attention. My MM was starved for simple attention, admiration, compliments, etc. 2. Having someone to talk to. My MM was also starved for honest, open, adult conversation. We talk a gazillion times a day, and even when we see each other, 75% of that time is spent deep in conversation, laughing, sharing, etc. 3. Yes, great sex. Not just that we have it, but we're great at it. 4. Stroking the ego. A man needs this - when did the wives forget? 5. Letting him be who he is, no questions or complaints. Wife says "WHY do you have to play golf instead of picking out the new floors with me?!?!" while the OW says, "Enjoy your 18, come over when you're done." 6. The OW makes the MM feel truly loved and appreciated. The W makes MM feel unappreciated, like nothing he ever does is good enough. By denying him sex, the W is telilng the H that he means nothing to her, that nothing he does is good enough, that he doesn't have the ability to make her happy. MEN WANT TO FEEL LIKE THE HERO, and to the OW, he is - he gives her everything she outwardly asks for, and she is greatful and happily and heartily satisfied. She can't wait to see him. To W, MM is lucky if he can even get a kiss on the cheek hello. I could go on, but I am tired... Perhaps the W provides security and comfort, a nice home cooked meal, but as my MM told me many, many times - I gave him all the above things that he needs as a man. So that gives him a reason to cheat?? Oh my dear KMT...the irony is...one day YOU will be "A/The Wife!!
izzybelle Posted November 11, 2004 Posted November 11, 2004 tiki- Usually the only thing the OW is great at is sex. That's why she's the OW. The wife is the keeper in these situations. hmmmm.... so if an OW becomes a wife she automatically becomes a lousy lover? and boy are you wrong....for those of us who have had heavy duty emotional affairs the sex is the smallest part of the relationship. i was with my MM for about 5/6 months. in that time, because it was LDR, we were only together 3 times but talked and emailed constantly. obviously he wasn't in it just for the sex. and aside from the fact that i do believe that i am a dam* good lover there was so, so much more involved. it was more of what KMT described. while there may be some that are just for sex, there are many where the connection is more. you can still argue that either way it's wrong, but it's more than just sex!! generalizations are always somewhat dangerous!
Author KissMyTiara Posted November 11, 2004 Author Posted November 11, 2004 Originally posted by tiki It's kinda like having an extra car. You only use it when you need it. You'll always be second best, always be the second choice. Your comment applies just as equally to the W, now doesn't it? She serves HER purpose as well as I serve mine. I'm the first person he calls with good or bad news. I am the first person he thinks of in the morning, and the one he thinks about as he lays his head on his Frette pillow. Don't get me wrong, I am not condoning or justifying my behavior or that of MM...I'm just saying that there are reasons why the affair happens in the first place. Frankly, I think all 3 people involved in the equation are at fault. VIVIAN - NO that does not give him a justification or an excuse, but I do think that provides some insight into what may eventually lead a man to stray. That said, a good man, with those issues in his marriage, will seek to fix them with his wife instead of going to someone else. I never claimed my MM was a "good man," for in reality, I don't think he is. That's why I am done with him. And...frankly, I don't know that I will ever legally bind myself to a man. But even if I do, I have learned sooooo much, not only from my situation but by reading on LS all about everyone else's stories, to enable me to see the signs and stop the damage before it occurs. We all have needs. If we meet each other's needs, we should all be ok.
Author KissMyTiara Posted November 11, 2004 Author Posted November 11, 2004 Originally posted by izzybelle tiki- hmmmm.... so if an OW becomes a wife she automatically becomes a lousy lover? and boy are you wrong....for those of us who have had heavy duty emotional affairs the sex is the smallest part of the relationship. i was with my MM for about 5/6 months. in that time, because it was LDR, we were only together 3 times but talked and emailed constantly. obviously he wasn't in it just for the sex. and aside from the fact that i do believe that i am a dam* good lover there was so, so much more involved. it was more of what KMT described. while there may be some that are just for sex, there are many where the connection is more. you can still argue that either way it's wrong, but it's more than just sex!! generalizations are always somewhat dangerous! I completely agree. And Sinner/Immoralist has described how affairs can differ... Some affairs, like mine and that of IzzyBelle, are "heavy duty" and involve much, much, MUCH more than just sex. (Haven't you read about all the online affairs where they never even met, or affairs that were emotionally intimate but never sexual?? These affairs are just as real, and demonstrate just as much what is lacking in the marriage!!) These men had separate lives with us OW. They LOVED us, cared for us, held us when we cried over losses/fears, supported us emotionally, and we did the same for them when they felt the person they returned home to everynight wouldn't. The FANTASTIC sex was just a bonus!! (And I have to admit, I am pretty good in that department!!)
VivianLee Posted November 11, 2004 Posted November 11, 2004 VIVIAN - NO that does not give him a justification or an excuse, but I do think that provides some insight into what may eventually lead a man to stray. No it's called lack of self control. The man that strays lacks it, I lacked it when I cheated. Marriages aren't affairs....they can't begin to compete with those standards BUT marriages can be fulfilling and exciting, every day life just isn't. I'm tired of hearing why I cheated or others cheated because of this, this and this....I'm to the point of now saying...get over yourself (myself included) and have some self-control. We all have been given it we just need to use it!
Barby Posted November 11, 2004 Posted November 11, 2004 In some ways both the wife and the "OW" serve a purpose to the cheater obviously or else he wouldn't keep them around, I think it's sad that women find it okay to justify being an "OW" but it's their perogative. No matter how much one argues about the immorality, wrongness, or reasoning why it is or isn't okay to be an "ow" or have an affair, no one will ever know the true reason why one cheats. I don't even think the man/woman knows why they really cheat, I think it goes beyond sex into a deeper problem within the self of the cheater. Obviously if one was truly happy they'd be able to express their unhappiness to their S/O and work on or end that relationship before beginning a relationship of any kind be it emotional or physical/sexual with someone else. They are lacking or struggling most likely with something that has nothing to do with an external reason or person so until they figure these issues out the cheating will probably never stop no matter what the wife or "OW" does or doesn't do. If you're okay being the one who gets him on the side then so be it, your thread was about how to tell her, just do it already. Stop waiting around IF it really is about HER health you're concerned. DON'T WAIT, however if it's a "power or control" thing for you then just move on and let them keep their "relationship" no matter what is going on between you and the MM.
Author KissMyTiara Posted November 11, 2004 Author Posted November 11, 2004 Originally posted by Barby In some ways both the wife and the "OW" serve a purpose to the cheater obviously or else he wouldn't keep them around, I think it's sad that women find it okay to justify being an "OW" but it's their perogative. No matter how much one argues about the immorality, wrongness, or reasoning why it is or isn't okay to be an "ow" or have an affair, no one will ever know the true reason why one cheats. I don't even think the man/woman knows why they really cheat, I think it goes beyond sex into a deeper problem within the self of the cheater. Obviously if one was truly happy they'd be able to express their unhappiness to their S/O and work on or end that relationship before beginning a relationship of any kind be it emotional or physical/sexual with someone else. They are lacking or struggling most likely with something that has nothing to do with an external reason or person so until they figure these issues out the cheating will probably never stop no matter what the wife or "OW" does or doesn't do. If you're okay being the one who gets him on the side then so be it, your thread was about how to tell her, just do it already. Stop waiting around IF it really is about HER health you're concerned. DON'T WAIT, however if it's a "power or control" thing for you then just move on and let them keep their "relationship" no matter what is going on between you and the MM. You're probably right - the real reason why one cheats will probably never really be known to anyone. I gave a list of my partners to my doc. I had already contacted everyone on the list except for his wife. Doc said she'd call. Whatever happens happens!
Barby Posted November 11, 2004 Posted November 11, 2004 I am glad to know that you did make an effort to contact or at least have someone contact her. I think you did the right thing. I hope you realize that you do in fact deserve someone who wouldn't put you in the situation, I'm sure if you're careful in your selection of future partners that you'll find him in the near future... but in any event I'm glad that you took steps to let her know. But I have to ask, why did you decide against calling her or contacting her to tell her yourself?
Author KissMyTiara Posted November 11, 2004 Author Posted November 11, 2004 Originally posted by Barby I am glad to know that you did make an effort to contact or at least have someone contact her. I think you did the right thing. I hope you realize that you do in fact deserve someone who wouldn't put you in the situation, I'm sure if you're careful in your selection of future partners that you'll find him in the near future... but in any event I'm glad that you took steps to let her know. But I have to ask, why did you decide against calling her or contacting her to tell her yourself? Because I am a coward and I didn't want to take any direct responsibility for causing her pain. I mean that. I just couldn't do it myself. I am not strong enough.
Owl Posted November 11, 2004 Posted November 11, 2004 I hate to say it this way KMT, but you and your MM ARE the direct cause of her pain. You just didn't have the courage to be the one to face her with it.
tiki Posted November 11, 2004 Posted November 11, 2004 Originally posted by izzybelle generalizations are always somewhat dangerous! So is having an affair with a married man. So is speeding. So is eating a hamburger. And I don't feel like I generalized. I said "usually". If you don't fit into that category, so be it. I've been there. I did it for almost half a f*cking decade. I got a man that is true to our commitment and our relationship. I gave up "half ass" and found the "full monty". I like you KMT, I think you're totally clued in. I hope you continue to make the right choices. Life does go out without the MM.
hurtinheart Posted November 12, 2004 Posted November 12, 2004 I think your pissed cause you will be nothing more than the other women!!! MM rarely leave thir wife!!! they feed the ow all kinds of BS lines!!!! he is probably having great sex w/ you and his wife!!!!! Best of both worlds!!! You can be selfish and tell her but most likely she will not leave him and alone you will be again!!!! If you were that worried about an std you should have protected yourself!!!! It is not just a mans responabilty!!!! You should have done that the first time you had sex with him or any man!!!!! the only one not to blame in this is the wife!!!!! If you feel the need to cause her pain when there is no need then you go right ahead!!! as soon as you found out he was a married man you should have walked away!!!!! you control your happiness!!!!! you control the drama that goes on in your life!!!!! do what you feel you need to too!!!!
Mr Spock Posted November 12, 2004 Posted November 12, 2004 Originally posted by hurtinheart I think your pissed cause you will be nothing more than the other women!!! MM rarely leave thir wife!!! they feed the ow all kinds of BS lines!!!! he is probably having great sex w/ you and his wife!!!!! Best of both worlds!!! You can be selfish and tell her but most likely she will not leave him and alone you will be again!!!! If you were that worried about an std you should have protected yourself!!!! It is not just a mans responabilty!!!! You should have done that the first time you had sex with him or any man!!!!! the only one not to blame in this is the wife!!!!! If you feel the need to cause her pain when there is no need then you go right ahead!!! as soon as you found out he was a married man you should have walked away!!!!! you control your happiness!!!!! you control the drama that goes on in your life!!!!! do what you feel you need to too!!!! Thank you, o wise one, for illuminating those bits of information. I'm sure that no one here has said that before, and I'm sure those thoughts are completely new to KMT. Are you bringing anything new or useful to the table, or are you just recycling bits of flotsam you've picked up on other threads? OH YES, this is your "opinion". Oops. My bad. 1
Karlise13 Posted November 12, 2004 Posted November 12, 2004 too often the man is not taking care to protect any of his partners. I used to work with a man who cheated on his wife with a fair amount of regularity. He actually had a 'regular girlfriend' he saw every other weekend but also had 'girls on the side' and continued to sleep with his wife. He rarely used condoms. (How do I know this? Because I used to go to Happy Hours with my co-workers and the ones who stayed late, drank the most also confessed the most to each other) Anyway, he said he only hung out with 'well educated people' and 'never had a problem' and 'the kind of people I meet, you just know there's nothing wrong with them' It's unfortunate that even in this day and age people think they can tell by looking at someone whether or not they have herpes, HIV or other nasties. BE CAREFUL LADIES
guest Posted November 12, 2004 Posted November 12, 2004 Originally posted by KissMyTiara NO that does not give him a justification or an excuse, but I do think that provides some insight into what may eventually lead a man to stray. That said, a good man, with those issues in his marriage, will seek to fix them with his wife instead of going to someone else. I never claimed my MM was a "good man," for in reality, I don't think he is. That's why I am done with him. Serial cheaters usually cheat for different reasons than others do. I believe it is usually because of emotional problems within themselves and not as much if at all to do with their spouse or their relationship with the spouse. I'm glad you are done with him.
cheatersrsad Posted November 23, 2004 Posted November 23, 2004 I HAD to post after reading your (kissmy's) list of "stray proofs" for men. Provide attention, give him someone to talk to, great sex, stroke his ego, let him be who he is without questions or complaints. Kiss...you have GOT to be kidding. I am a happily married woman (luckily my husband is too.) I have to assume you have never been married because if you had been you would feel a fool for posting that list. OW need to realize that taking a man from a married woman is almost like taking candy from a baby in some cases. It has little to do with your sexual prowess beyond the fact that you actually have time and energy to have sex, while his wife may not. Also, when your married and you have budgets, bills, doctor visits, "inherited" family members, debt, work, household chores...it gets more difficult to talk "a gazillion times a day" as you do with your MM. For godsakes, don't either of you work for a living? Also, I am cracking up over the statement " Letting him be who he is, no questions or complaints." Who are you kidding? You are telling me that a married woman who works full time, cleans the house, does the laundry, walks the dog, takes care of the kids, makes dinner shouldn't question her H when he chooses to golf instead of spend time with you/family? What is wrong with you? It's 2004 not 1954. Bottomline...your "list" is silly. It is clearly coming from the OW and has no basis in reality. Yes your man may tell you things about his wife and tell you that you're better, thinner, prettier, smarter, etc. However, are you truly so wrapped up in yourself to believe him or can you step outside of this and see that he lies and cheats for a living. Good luck with your MM and I hope you end up with him. Sounds like a match made in Hell. Cheerio... attention... 1. Providing attention. My MM was starved for simple attention, admiration, compliments, etc. 2. Having someone to talk to. My MM was also starved for honest, open, adult conversation. We talk a gazillion times a day, and even when we see each other, 75% of that time is spent deep in conversation, laughing, sharing, etc. When I went to Europe, the hardest part wasn't not being able to see/touch/feel him, but not being able to talk to him everyday. 3. Yes, great sex. Not just that we have it, but we're great at it, and we enjoy having it with him. MM told me that he barely ever "got it" from W, and when he did, it wasn't very pleasurable bc she acted like she didn't like it. When I perform oral sex on him, I enjoy it, and I show him how much I enjoy it, and he has told me how much better it feels to him just because of how I am acting. W needs to show MM how much she yearns for him, how much she enjoys being with him, etc. Otherwise he will look for someone he knows he has the power to get off every time. 4. Stroking the ego. A man needs this - when did the wives forget? W needs to remember to show him how proud and lucky she feels to have THIS man in her life. 5. Letting him be who he is, no questions or complaints. Wife says "WHY do you have to play golf instead of picking out the new floors with me?!?!" while the OW says, "Enjoy your 18, come over when you're done." 6. The OW makes the MM feel truly loved and appreciated. The W makes MM feel unappreciated, like nothing he ever does is good enough. By denying him sex, the W is telilng the H that he means nothing to her, that nothing he does is good enough, that he doesn't have the ability to make her happy. MEN WANT TO FEEL LIKE THE HERO, and to the OW, he is - he gives her everything she outwardly asks for, and she is greatful and happily and heartily satisfied. She can't wait to see him. To W, MM is lucky if he can even get a kiss on the cheek hello.
hotgurl Posted November 23, 2004 Posted November 23, 2004 I agree a lot of men cheat to escape responsibilities and daily life. Anyone wouldn't look so good or exciting after being together for a while and splitting bills, chores kids ect.. The guy wants new exciting no responsibilities. But I do think it is important for married couples to still cherish each other and communicate and date so it's not always day in day out crap that leaves the marriage vulnerable to infidelity
StillHurtin Posted November 24, 2004 Posted November 24, 2004 My H and I had been married almost 11 years b4 his A. He filed for a divorce, I kicked him out, and shortly after he had the A w/ the OW, his co-worker. He gave a lot of these reasons for the D and the A. But I still have to say it's HIS fault for why I didn't do the things the list mentioned. He was the one that came crawling back to me, saying he will change, made the biggest mistake, apologizing out the a$$ for everthing he said and did to me. There was verbal abuse b4 the A. It took me awhile to decide whether I really wanted the marriage to work. At first I told him there was no way in he!! I was taking him back. 1. Providing attention. My MM was starved for simple attention, admiration, compliments, etc. NO, I didn't give him the attention he starved. Why would I? After all the mean things he said to me. All the names he called me, ect. 2. Having someone to talk to. My MM was also starved for honest, open, adult conversation. We talk a gazillion times a day, and even when we see each other, 75% of that time is spent deep in conversation, laughing, sharing, etc. When I went to Europe, the hardest part wasn't not being able to see/touch/feel him, but not being able to talk to him everyday. Who has time to talk gazillion times a day? I worked 45-60 hours a week. When I got off work I had to cook, clean, laundry, do dishes, help our kids w/ school work, get them ready for bed, ect. While he is either out w/ friends or playing sports. The OW has it made. She doesn't live w/ the MM. She doesn't have kids to deal w/. She doesn't have the household chores to deal w/ all the time. It's like dating. You can have all the fun and sex but no responsibilties of children, being married, taking care of his home, his bills, ect. 3. Yes, great sex. Not just that we have it, but we're great at it, and we enjoy having it with him. MM told me that he barely ever "got it" from W, and when he did, it wasn't very pleasurable bc she acted like she didn't like it. When I perform oral sex on him, I enjoy it, and I show him how much I enjoy it, and he has told me how much better it feels to him just because of how I am acting. W needs to show MM how much she yearns for him, how much she enjoys being with him, etc. Otherwise he will look for someone he knows he has the power to get off every time. Who wants to have sex w/ a person who belittles and calls you names? Who wants to have sex w/ someone who puts you down and calls you "fat a$$, cow, pig" ect. Thing I couldn't understand if I was so fat (30 lbs ow) why did he want to have sex all the time? If I was so fat then shouldn't of that been a turn off for him? I don't care if a woman weighs 125 lbs, or 300 lbs, she doesn't deserve to be called names like this. 4. Stroking the ego. A man needs this - when did the wives forget? W needs to remember to show him how proud and lucky she feels to have THIS man in her life. Stroke his ego? OMG, my H doesn't need his ego stroked, he already has a big, conceited head on him as it is. As for telling him how good he looks, ect, why? He made me feel like a piece of crap all the time. Why should I make him look good when he never treated me good? 5. Letting him be who he is, no questions or complaints. Wife says "WHY do you have to play golf instead of picking out the new floors with me?!?!" while the OW says, "Enjoy your 18, come over when you're done." OMGosh!! GOLF!! I am so sick of this sport!!! I don't mind if he plays. B4 the A he was golfing twice a week and then every weekend. And then on top of it he was playing softball twice a week. He was only home maybe once or twice a week to be w/ me and the kids. He not only played golf he played pool, bowling, softball, volleyball, horse shoes, And then he wonders why I am such a b!tch to him. B/c I am raising our children alone, I need a break and he was never there to give it to me. On the night we brought our second child home after having her he went to the races!!! I had to have my cousins come over and help me w/ our other child b/c I had a c-section and couldn't lift over 10 lbs. I needed help and he was out racing!!! 6. The OW makes the MM feel truly loved and appreciated. The W makes MM feel unappreciated, like nothing he ever does is good enough. By denying him sex, the W is telilng the H that he means nothing to her, that nothing he does is good enough, that he doesn't have the ability to make her happy. MEN WANT TO FEEL LIKE THE HERO, and to the OW, he is - he gives her everything she outwardly asks for, and she is greatful and happily and heartily satisfied. She can't wait to see him. To W, MM is lucky if he can even get a kiss on the cheek hello. This just goes w/ the rest of my vent about what I went through b4 the D and A. Things have improved, a lot. He went to counseling, and he doesn't play as many sports, or as often. He does more w/ the kids and helps around the house more than what he has in the past. And I do get more time away to go out and have fun then I did b4. I am not saying my marriage is perfect, no marriage is, but it's not the way it use to be.
Stinkerbelle Posted November 29, 2004 Posted November 29, 2004 If you are away from him and see that his behavior will continue with other people, and that she is at risk for disease,etc.... then I would tell her. If you are angry, I wouldn't -- she will turn on you, his balls will be found to reside in her pocket, and you will be absolutely miserable. He'll lie to her, and he'll lie to you.
Author KissMyTiara Posted November 30, 2004 Author Posted November 30, 2004 Originally posted by Stinkerbelle If you are away from him and see that his behavior will continue with other people, and that she is at risk for disease,etc.... then I would tell her. If you are angry, I wouldn't -- she will turn on you, his balls will be found to reside in her pocket, and you will be absolutely miserable. He'll lie to her, and he'll lie to you. I've resigned myself to not give a flying rat's a$$.
Bellastella Posted December 14, 2004 Posted December 14, 2004 I told the MM's soon to be ex wife about him cheating with me last April, she chewed him out he continued on our affair til now, and is preparing to split from her. Funny huh?
Barby Posted December 14, 2004 Posted December 14, 2004 Originally posted by Bellastella I told the MM's soon to be ex wife about him cheating with me last April, she chewed him out he continued on our affair til now, and is preparing to split from her. Funny huh? What's so funny about this? Because you got your way? He continued the affair? Don't you mean you BOTH did? Well it's good it works out in the end for some "OW" maybe it'll happen for more of them.
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