Author KissMyTiara Posted November 9, 2004 Author Posted November 9, 2004 Originally posted by Karlise13 You said you were "100% clean" and I just couldn't get why you needed to tell the wife. Now you're getting a biopsy? Very confusing. After I went to the doc for the usual girly checkup, they gave me a card on it with date and number to call to get all my results. Standard procedure. Last week, the time came to make the call, so I did. I was relieved to hear the automated message from my doc saying the results of my bloodwork came in, and everything was within normal limits. I called the docs office and asked what my blood was actually tested for (I didn't know if it was just STDs or if it also included other things, like hormone levels, cholestoral, etc...and I was curious.) She told me it covered Gonnarhea (I can't spell), Clamydia, Syphillis, and because I had apparently requested it, HIV. All were negative. To me, this meant I was 100% clean. That's when I made my post re: telling the wife out of my own desire just to have her know. Obviously, I was wrong about my "clean" status. Yesterday morning, my doc calls with the results of my LAB work (the pap, as opposed to the BLOOD work) which came back with precancerous cells resulting from high risk HPV exposure. Apparently there are like 40-60 types of HPV, one causes genital warts, one causes cold sores, and one causes cervical lesions (the others do only God knows what). Based on the cellular changes found in the lab work up, she indicated that she believes I was recently (6 weeks to 3 months) infected with the high risk cancer-causing form of HPV. It may or may not go away on it's own... I need to have a biopsy to determine whether or not it is in fact cancer. If it isn't, I have to go pap-crazy and have a pap every 3 months until I have 3 clear and perfect ones before I know that the infection is "gone," and even then, it's just "gone" from my cervix. Wife probably DOES have it in her body, because (as I have found in my internet research on this for the past 24 hours) practically 90% of women who have ever had sex have had an HPV infection sometime during their sexual history and most don't know it because they either don't have a pap, or they are lucky enough to have it occur and go away without causing any cancerous growth. HPV shows up and goes away, like mono or chicken pocks, but it forever remains in your body. Most of YOU reading this have likely had it and not known, because you can't SEE your cervix... Make sense?
Author KissMyTiara Posted November 9, 2004 Author Posted November 9, 2004 And here's the thing - this is NOT true, I just need you to get all the angles of this dilemma - assuming, arguendo, that I didn't get it from him (that's what he's thinking, anyway, even though he's the ONLY person it could have been!!)...chances are that she at least has it NOW, because he and I have been having sex, sex, sex, and I can only assume that he is still - at least on occasion - sleeping with her, so if I have it, he has it, and then she has it. Right?? OR, could it be that SHE has it, she gave it to him, and he gave it to me?! Whichever way the chain begins, she still should know because of the possibility, right? My question - logically speaking - is that she's in danger, right? I don't want to have a doc call and make this announcement to her and then have her be fine...because if that's the case, then there's no reason in her knowing about any of it...right? Oh, my head hurts.
savethedrama4allama Posted November 9, 2004 Posted November 9, 2004 I am really sorry for what you're going through. HPV is scary and so widespread- 80-90% of the population has it at any given time, but only certain strains are dangerous or annoying (genital warts). If you were to have good results from your biopsy, would that change your stance on telling his wife? The thought I'm trying to provoke is this- don't let your fear motivate you to tell the wife. You may have rational concerns about her health, and in that case its probably a good idea. But if you are lashing out in anger, hurt, guilt or resentment for contracting HPV from her husband, don't do it. Only you know what the case is.
hotgurl Posted November 9, 2004 Posted November 9, 2004 hey kmt I was going to give you all these nifty fact about hpv but I already see you know. I would get tested for hepatits you didn't mention it nad hiv in another 6 mos. The thing that sucks about hpv is it makes you more sesitible to HIV so be careful no more unprotected sex. If you do have pre-cancerous cells. It is an easy laser outpatient surgery no sex 6 weks or if it is more sevre it is an impatient surgery with like well basivcally they burn the cells off. The bad thing is you can get gential woarts and sores. I would tell her and soon because if she doesn't go infor an annual and some women if a monogomous relationship don't go in every year it could be bad. Cervical cancer is very treatable if caught early if not it is very fast spreading. don't wait until the holidays. Maybe a letter. I don't know if a doctor would call. As to whom gave it to whom well the man is a carrier and usually no symptoms but he could havce got it from another affiar and gave it to her and you. Why no condoms? He's not faithful. Tell her spare her from future stds
Mr Spock Posted November 9, 2004 Posted November 9, 2004 Originally posted by KissMyTiara I haven't asked nor will I ever ask him to make a choice. Even if he did, it would be moot, because I have already made mine. Ok, then you most definetly do not get to wreck her world by informing her yourself. What you have here is a case of making your bed-now you have to lay in it. If he indeed passed HPV on to you, you should do what someone said above and inform your public health nurse or doctor of all your sexual partners since your last check up, if you're concerned about protecting her. Let them know he is married. But you don't get to tell her.
Author KissMyTiara Posted November 9, 2004 Author Posted November 9, 2004 Originally posted by savethedrama4yrmama If you were to have good results from your biopsy, would that change your stance on telling his wife? Probably. I would think "ok, this isn't so bad/scary, she'll survive like I did, etc., etc.," - which is all the more reason for me to wait until after I have the results. My biopsy is on December 10, and I don't know how long it will take for the lab to come back with results... Hopefully it's good news, otherwise I'm gonna have a ****tay Christmas.
Pocky Posted November 9, 2004 Posted November 9, 2004 On a side note.. I'm assuming you're having a colposcopy (I've had a few). Wear panties that you don't want to keep because the vinegar they use to show the "white" cells stains your panties! Ruined the pair I had on. And you may not want to go back to work after having it done. You'll smell like you've been coloring Easter eggs.
Author KissMyTiara Posted November 10, 2004 Author Posted November 10, 2004 Wow, thanks for the advice. I'm even more creeped out now than ever. Yes, I'm having a colposcopy, but the doc says she intends to biopsy as well, so it's a diagnostic test/procedure all rolled into one. Is it as uncomfy as she made it sound?
Pocky Posted November 10, 2004 Posted November 10, 2004 Wow, thanks for the advice. I'm even more creeped out now than ever. Yes, I'm having a colposcopy, but the doc says she intends to biopsy as well, so it's a diagnostic test/procedure all rolled into one. Is it as uncomfy as she made it sound? I've always had a biopsy done with the colposcopy so that's pretty standard. I'd ask her to use a topical anesthetic (same stuff they use at the dentist to numb the surface before they give a shot) on the area first where she is going to take a biopsy to numb some of the pain. It's not THAT bad, but it hurts a bit. You'll feel a little bit of pain for a few days after which feels like the skin is pinched.
meanon Posted November 10, 2004 Posted November 10, 2004 That's awful, Kmt. I hope your tests are clear. In many countries clinics alert people who may be infected, without disclosing where the information came from. It's worth asking when you go for your tests.
Author KissMyTiara Posted November 10, 2004 Author Posted November 10, 2004 Originally posted by Pocky I've always had a biopsy done with the colposcopy so that's pretty standard. I'd ask her to use a topical anesthetic (same stuff they use at the dentist to numb the surface before they give a shot) on the area first where she is going to take a biopsy to numb some of the pain. It's not THAT bad, but it hurts a bit. You'll feel a little bit of pain for a few days after which feels like the skin is pinched. Oh jeez, that just sounds horrible. Can I bring a friend in there with me, ya think? I'm not too good with this kind of thing...
Nocturnalkitee Posted November 10, 2004 Posted November 10, 2004 I read some of your earlier post. I understand that you did not know your MM was married when this relationship started. I'm just curious how long have the two of you been dating?
Pocky Posted November 10, 2004 Posted November 10, 2004 Oh jeez, that just sounds horrible. Can I bring a friend in there with me, ya think? I'm not too good with this kind of thing... HEH! It's a weird position to be in with a friend by your side. Ask the doctor - it's your body.
sami Posted November 10, 2004 Posted November 10, 2004 You need to dig deep into your inners to find out why you really want to tell her.
Author KissMyTiara Posted November 10, 2004 Author Posted November 10, 2004 Originally posted by Nocturnalkitee I read some of your earlier post. I understand that you did not know your MM was married when this relationship started. I'm just curious how long have the two of you been dating? Started in May, found out in July, it's been going ever since.
guest Posted November 10, 2004 Posted November 10, 2004 Originally posted by KissMyTiara This "thing" he gave me is believed to be what causes cervical cancer, and yesterday I found out my most recent trip to the gyno resulted in an abnormal pap. He doesn't know THAT part, I'm keeping my medical condition private until I know whether or not my precancerous cells are in fact cancer. NO, I will not be relying on him for support through this...I am crying on the shoulder of close, real friends instead, who are trying to convince me that cervical cancer does not strike and kill 27 year old women, but given my luck of late, I'm not so convinced. What kills me is that she has 3 children who depend on her for love, support, comfort, etc. I cannot just let her go about life possibly growing cervical cancer, now can I?? http://www.ashastd.org/hpvccrc/women.html If I test positive for HPV, how did I get it? HPV is usually acquired by direct skin-to-skin contact during intimate sexual contact with someone who is infected. Most men and women are not aware that they have the virus. Condoms do not offer complete protection from HPV. Increasing numbers of partners increases the risk of getting HPV, but the virus is so common that having only a single lifetime partner does not assure protection. It is usually impossible to determine when, and from whom, HPV was caught. HPV may be detected fairly soon after exposure, or may not be found until many years later. For all these reasons, it is not helpful, nor fair to blame your partner. kmt, I'm not sure what your doctor told you or which type of hpv you have, but apparently it is not usually possible to tell definitively who you contracted it from and when. Assuming you have had other partners than this mm, and since condoms also do not offer protection, whether you used protection with them or not you could have contracted it from someone else. As with all stds, the ethical thing to do is to tell everyone you have had sex/sexual contact with and tell them to get tested. You could give your doctor a list of all partners including him and his wife and leave it at that. Although it's scary to go through this, remember that cervical cancer is usually very slowly progressing, and one irregular pap smear is not something to get overly worried about. Hpv alone does not usually cause cervical cancer, there are often other factors involved. The coloposcopy will show if you need any further treatment. A friend had one done and said it was painful but not overly so, ask them to use a topical anesthetic. She showed no signs of abnormality after several abnormal pap smears over a two year or so period. Treatments for cervical cancer are very effective when it is detected early. As far as telling his wife, I do understand that you feel she should know that he is doing this, (exposing her to disease), but maybe she already knows? If she has yearly pap smears, which most women do now, she will find out if she has been exposed to or has hpv and it has caused any problems. Unfortunately, she probably doesn't test for other stds. I think she should know that her husband is a serial cheater who has unprotected sex and exposes her to disease, but I don't think you should be the one to tell her this. It might not even make any difference. One of my friends became involved for six months with someone married. She didn't know until the end that he was married, he tried to have unprotected sex with her, she called his wife and told her, not for revenge etc. she wasn't involved with him at all other than dating him occasionally and had no desire to hurt his wife etc. She wanted to warn his wife that he was one cheating on her and not using protection. They are still together, so I guess his wife didn't mind him doing this? Who knows. At least she will know now to get tested for stds anyway. I would tell him and ask him to tell her. If he is a serial cheater and has unprotected sex with multiple partners you should be protecting yourself. These are good enough reasons alone for you to stop seeing him yourself.
fanou22 Posted November 10, 2004 Posted November 10, 2004 Originally posted by guest If I test positive for HPV, how did I get it? HPV is usually acquired by direct skin-to-skin contact during intimate sexual contact with someone who is infected. Most men and women are not aware that they have the virus. Condoms do not offer complete protection from HPV. Increasing numbers of partners increases the risk of getting HPV, but the virus is so common that having only a single lifetime partner does not assure protection. It is usually impossible to determine when, and from whom, HPV was caught. HPV may be detected fairly soon after exposure, or may not be found until many years later. For all these reasons, it is not helpful, nor fair to blame your partner. Doctors in the US are reluctant to point the finger because of the legal implications. The literature that you read on the internet is not the same as what you hear from your doctor. Most of it is true but it takes it to extremes. IMO it is fair to blame the current partner. The best course of action is to get him to get tested in order to make sure it was him. On the other hand, if it was not him, he is going to be a carrier by now.
Author KissMyTiara Posted November 10, 2004 Author Posted November 10, 2004 Originally posted by guest http://www.ashastd.org/hpvccrc/women.html I'm not sure what your doctor told you or which type of hpv you have, but apparently it is not usually possible to tell definitively who you contracted it from and when. Assuming you have had other partners than this mm, and since condoms also do not offer protection, whether you used protection with them or not you could have contracted it from someone else. As with all stds, the ethical thing to do is to tell everyone you have had sex/sexual contact with and tell them to get tested. You could give your doctor a list of all partners including him and his wife and leave it at that. As far as telling his wife, I do understand that you feel she should know that he is doing this, (exposing her to disease), but maybe she already knows? If she has yearly pap smears, which most women do now, she will find out if she has been exposed to or has hpv and it has caused any problems. Unfortunately, she probably doesn't test for other stds. I think she should know that her husband is a serial cheater who has unprotected sex and exposes her to disease, but I don't think you should be the one to tell her this. It might not even make any difference. One of my friends became involved for six months with someone married. She didn't know until the end that he was married, he tried to have unprotected sex with her, she called his wife and told her, not for revenge etc. she wasn't involved with him at all other than dating him occasionally and had no desire to hurt his wife etc. She wanted to warn his wife that he was one cheating on her and not using protection. They are still together, so I guess his wife didn't mind him doing this? Who knows. At least she will know now to get tested for stds anyway. I would tell him and ask him to tell her. If he is a serial cheater and has unprotected sex with multiple partners you should be protecting yourself. These are good enough reasons alone for you to stop seeing him yourself. A pap itself does not find HPV, a separate swab specific for HPV has to be taken, and I have researched and found that rarely do they test married women for STDs, unless it's requested. Assuming that yes, MM's wife does get annual paps, it would only appear abnormal once she's already contracted the HPV and there is abnormal growth from it... I am nervous about allowing her to have to wait until there's abnormal cells to find out... As for knowing he gave it to me, I KNOW. I am a faithful STD tester, and he is the ONLY guy, with the exception of my first highschool boyfriend (and we were both virgins, and that was like 10 years ago) that I have had unprotected sex with. I don't have a very large sexual history, and in fact, I have contacted the few others I have been with to let them know (funny, they are all married now...my ex's tend to marry quickly after being with me...) so that they can tell their wives and both get tested, get her paps, etc. But like I said, EVEN IF he didn't GIVE it to me, he now HAS it and will give it to HER. Right? I am running all these different scenarios through my mind trying to figure out how, who, when to clue in the wife.... I just don't know what to do! I feel like I am imagining cervical pain. I know it's all in my mind, but ever since that phone call, I feel like there's an "ache" down there.
ltomlinson81 Posted November 10, 2004 Posted November 10, 2004 You are just looking for any way to squeeze your way into this man's life, that is why you are looking to create even more drama. Deal with your own health, then get out of this situation. Find yourself a man who is available and who can give you the love and attention you want, without having to play games or meddle in his business. Your torture is completely self-inflicted, and I think most people would suggest ending this drama now, instead of complicating it and making it worse. This man does not care about you the way you want him to. He will probably never be able to give ANY woman, including you and his wife, what they want. That is why he has a wife AND a girlfriend who are probably both miserable and need to create drama to get his attention.
guest Posted November 11, 2004 Posted November 11, 2004 Originally posted by KissMyTiara A pap itself does not find HPV, a separate swab specific for HPV has to be taken, and I have researched and found that rarely do they test married women for STDs, unless it's requested. Assuming that yes, MM's wife does get annual paps, it would only appear abnormal once she's already contracted the HPV and there is abnormal growth from it... I am nervous about allowing her to have to wait until there's abnormal cells to find out... As for knowing he gave it to me, I KNOW. I am a faithful STD tester, and he is the ONLY guy, with the exception of my first highschool boyfriend (and we were both virgins, and that was like 10 years ago) that I have had unprotected sex with. I don't have a very large sexual history, and in fact, I have contacted the few others I have been with to let them know (funny, they are all married now...my ex's tend to marry quickly after being with me...) so that they can tell their wives and both get tested, get her paps, etc. But like I said, EVEN IF he didn't GIVE it to me, he now HAS it and will give it to HER. Right? I am running all these different scenarios through my mind trying to figure out how, who, when to clue in the wife.... I just don't know what to do! I feel like I am imagining cervical pain. I know it's all in my mind, but ever since that phone call, I feel like there's an "ache" down there. It's true most gyn don't test for hpv unless it's requested and or indicated on a pap smear or for other reasons, since it is much more expensive to do than a pap. If he has it and gave it to you, then she probably already has it and informing her isn't going to do much, since as far as I'm aware, there isn't any treatment for hpv strains related to cervical cancer except to do pap smears to follow any changes and treat accordingly. If you had no cell changes but had hpv you would get more frequent pap probably maybe every six months instead of once a year. If someone gave it to him she probably already has it also. It's one of the most frequently transmitted stds. You're not going to prevent her from getting it. From what I can understand it may be sort of like a cold in some ways, you can get it, get over it and then be reinfected or you may develop an immunity as with many other viruses. If you are unlucky depending on which of the many strains you may have, you get warts or cervical dysplasia and a longterm infection lasting several years of more. http://www.plannedparenthood.org/sti/HPVfacts1.html "Most women recover from HPV infections with no health problems at all. It is not known why some women develop long-term HPV infection, pre-cancerous abnormal cell changes, or cervical cancer. Most HPV infections go away by themselves within six months. Many women develop immunity - a natural protection - against different types of HPV. " "Should I be tested for HPV infection? No - unless a clinician wants to know if HPV caused some cell changes. " "What is the treatment for HPV infection? Treatment is available for genital warts or abnormal cell changes caused by HPV. But there is currently no treatment to cure HPV itself. Most types of HPV infection are harmless, do not require treatment, and go away by themselves." I think you can assume that she is having yearly pap smears and will know if she needs treatment. There is a slight chance it can be transmitted during birth, so if she were to become pregnant and still had the virus then I guess that could be an issue. <<This man does not care about you the way you want him to. He will probably never be able to give ANY woman, including you and his wife, what they want. >> I agree with this. http://www.labtestsonline.org/understanding/analytes/hpv/faq.html 7. Are men screened for HPV infection? No, men are not routinely screened for HPV infection. The current commercially available tests – the Pap smear and DNA HPV tests – are not suitable for testing males. If the need arose, male samples could be tested for HPV using alternate DNA HPV testing.
Author KissMyTiara Posted November 11, 2004 Author Posted November 11, 2004 Originally posted by ltomlinson81 He will probably never be able to give ANY woman, including you and his wife, what they want. That is why he has a wife AND a girlfriend who are probably both miserable and need to create drama to get his attention. I have NEVER had any drama with MM - I have never had to do ANYTHING to get his attention other than just being myself.
tiki Posted November 11, 2004 Posted November 11, 2004 Usually the only thing the OW is great at is sex. That's why she's the OW. The wife is the keeper in these situations.
Barby Posted November 11, 2004 Posted November 11, 2004 Originally posted by tiki Usually the only thing the OW is great at is sex. That's why she's the OW. The wife is the keeper in these situations. Kinda seems to be the truth, the OW is usually willing to do what the wife won't that's why he seeks it somewhere else (w/ the OW) Or so it seems anyway IMHO
tiki Posted November 11, 2004 Posted November 11, 2004 It's kinda like having an extra car. You only use it when you need it. You'll always be second best, always be the second choice.
Author KissMyTiara Posted November 11, 2004 Author Posted November 11, 2004 Originally posted by Barby Kinda seems to be the truth, the OW is usually willing to do what the wife won't that's why he seeks it somewhere else (w/ the OW) Or so it seems anyway IMHO I honestly think that being involved in this affair in the first place has opened my eyes to a lot of things, especially as to why men stray. I know that I cannot prevent my future husband from cheating, but I do know that there are things a W can do to "affair proof" her marriage as best as possible. The MM will stray to an OW when the OW is better at other things than just sex, darling: 1. Providing attention. My MM was starved for simple attention, admiration, compliments, etc. 2. Having someone to talk to. My MM was also starved for honest, open, adult conversation. We talk a gazillion times a day, and even when we see each other, 75% of that time is spent deep in conversation, laughing, sharing, etc. When I went to Europe, the hardest part wasn't not being able to see/touch/feel him, but not being able to talk to him everyday. 3. Yes, great sex. Not just that we have it, but we're great at it, and we enjoy having it with him. MM told me that he barely ever "got it" from W, and when he did, it wasn't very pleasurable bc she acted like she didn't like it. When I perform oral sex on him, I enjoy it, and I show him how much I enjoy it, and he has told me how much better it feels to him just because of how I am acting. W needs to show MM how much she yearns for him, how much she enjoys being with him, etc. Otherwise he will look for someone he knows he has the power to get off every time. 4. Stroking the ego. A man needs this - when did the wives forget? W needs to remember to show him how proud and lucky she feels to have THIS man in her life. 5. Letting him be who he is, no questions or complaints. Wife says "WHY do you have to play golf instead of picking out the new floors with me?!?!" while the OW says, "Enjoy your 18, come over when you're done." 6. The OW makes the MM feel truly loved and appreciated. The W makes MM feel unappreciated, like nothing he ever does is good enough. By denying him sex, the W is telilng the H that he means nothing to her, that nothing he does is good enough, that he doesn't have the ability to make her happy. MEN WANT TO FEEL LIKE THE HERO, and to the OW, he is - he gives her everything she outwardly asks for, and she is greatful and happily and heartily satisfied. She can't wait to see him. To W, MM is lucky if he can even get a kiss on the cheek hello. I could go on, but I am tired... Perhaps the W provides security and comfort, a nice home cooked meal, but as my MM told me many, many times - I gave him all the above things that he needs as a man.
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