Realist3 Posted August 19, 2013 Posted August 19, 2013 Just as important she would not want to tell the world she was a revengeful biatch. She would do just as much damage to herself, if not more, than she would to me.
MissBee Posted August 19, 2013 Posted August 19, 2013 That is somewhat humorous reading it on a message board. Ha ha! Anyone that tries to ruin me like that is dead to me. Well I'm sure she wouldn't care by then is all I'm saying. It wouldn't be some great loss at that point, if your cheating spouse doesn't want to forgive you for telling. 2
HopingAgain Posted August 19, 2013 Posted August 19, 2013 That is somewhat humorous reading it on a message board. Ha ha! Anyone that tries to ruin me like that is dead to me. Don't you think she might feel you tried to "ruin her" if she ever finds out you're cheating? What if your betrayal makes you dead to her upon finding out? I just really wonder at the ability to completely dismiss the feelings of another person one claims to love or at least once loved.
MissBee Posted August 19, 2013 Posted August 19, 2013 "Look, I know I cheated on you, lied to you, and slept with other people while married to you; but I can NEVER forgive you for telling people that I cheated on you, lied to you and and slept with other people while married to you! It's over, over, over! You're dead to me!! Even though I was the one who cheated on you, lied to you and slept with other people while married to you!" Smh. I wish my cheating spouse would be indignant and tell me that...I don't know what reaction they'd expect me to have? Cry? Beg them not to be over with me? Ahhh...by then I would be so angry and upset and then even more angry at their unearned indignation, I'd figure he was completely insane and would laugh his butt to the divorce attorney. But my serial cheating dad is this way...he can do every transgression on earth but feels he has a right to be indignant at my mom's response. I have no clue how she tolerates him. That kind of hubris is mind-boggling to me... I wouldn't go tell it on the mountain personally, but if I did, it's because I'm sure I'm done anyway, so he would be very arrogant to believe that him being mad or me being dead to him would matter to me...yea I'm so sad my cheating husband no longer wants to be a part of my life because I told....what a great loss. My life is over...I lost such a GREAT man. :lmao: Funny. 1
Realist3 Posted August 19, 2013 Posted August 19, 2013 Don't you think she might feel you tried to "ruin her" if she ever finds out you're cheating? What if your betrayal makes you dead to her upon finding out? I just really wonder at the ability to completely dismiss the feelings of another person one claims to love or at least once loved. Uh... she already knows. What I am saying is that if she tried to do damage to me publically, it would be something she would very much regret.
JustJoe Posted August 19, 2013 Posted August 19, 2013 This is what always bothers me about your posts. You are very quick and happy to make low and unpleasant comments about WS, especially WW. However your wife was WW too. Do you have a similarly low opinion of her too? Do your friends who know of your history have such low opinions? How do you reconcile the idea of staying with someone when according to many of your posts on here, you do not respect her? Or is she the exception? And if you see her differently and all your friends do too then why not me too?I have never made any "low and unpleasant" comments towards those WS's (WW or WH) who are trying to do the right thing and be honest with their BS's. For their own sakes, as well as for the sakes of the other participants in the affair situation. But I cannot and will not advocate further deception and dishonesty under the guise of "sparing" the BS's Feelings. As a former OM, I know that the main motivation for deceit is so that the cheater can avoid the consequences of their actions. This newfound concern for the BS is touching but late in the game. Where was it DURING or BEFORE the affair? Speaking of my wife, she was a golddigger and trophy wife back then, she is far , far more than that now. She is a well respected mental health professional, and wonderful wife and mother. I love and respect her before all other women. I didn't , during the affair. I forced D-day to show her that she was so much better than she was. Deceit and secrecy are never, ever good, and rationalizing cannot make them so.
JustJoe Posted August 19, 2013 Posted August 19, 2013 Just Joe is a guy who managed to pull off an A (4.5 years of deception) that was such a complete relationship and annihilation of a marriage, that he ended up marrying the AP. So that makes him sumkindofa hero. I'm probably the only OW on here who slept only once with my MM, (after a 3 year friendship and subsequent EA,) and managed to end the A because it was the right thing to do. How's that for gross I oversimplification, Joe? Joe's like the ex-smoker who loves to smack cigarettes out of people's hands because it makes him feel special.We are in danger of T/J ing this thread and getting it closed, so I'll only say that you are wrong, and if you want to talk about it, PM me and I'll discuss it with you.
JustJoe Posted August 19, 2013 Posted August 19, 2013 Let's not get too sanctimonious here like you were this noble individual. You were fine with an affair for over 4 years. It wasn't like you went 4 days and "did the right thing". You were ready for the relationship to move the next level so you changed the playing rules to get what you wanted. This is like Wiener claiming he didn't cheat as bad as the next guy because it was only sexting. Ditto with you, Got it. I would be happy to talk about it.
anne1707 Posted August 19, 2013 Posted August 19, 2013 I have never made any "low and unpleasant" comments towards those WS's (WW or WH) who are trying to do the right thing and be honest with their BS's. Strange. I seem to remember you making several comments that have been critical of me in the past yet I have been honest and done the "right thing" by my husband. I have even raised this with you before in the past via PM and have never been satisfied with your answers. So I am inclined to disagree with your statement above plus you chose to ignore my questions about yours and friends attitudes to your wife. Sorry Joe but you do sometimes come across as hypocritical IMO and others seem to agree with me. Did your wife disclose your affair to her ex-husband?
JustJoe Posted August 19, 2013 Posted August 19, 2013 (edited) Strange. I seem to remember you making several comments that have been critical of me in the past yet I have been honest and done the "right thing" by my husband. I have even raised this with you before in the past via PM and have never been satisfied with your answers. So I am inclined to disagree with your statement above plus you chose to ignore my questions about yours and friends attitudes to your wife. Sorry Joe but you do sometimes come across as hypocritical IMO and others seem to agree with me. Did your wife disclose your affair to her ex-husband?Sorry but the only one doing any name-calling is you. And suffice it to say that satisfying you isn't very high on my priority list, and to the opinions of these nebulous "others" I am completely indifferent. Now if you want, I will be glad to talk to you via PM anytime you wish, but I do not want to be the reason that this thread closes. About my family and friends, they universally love my wife, pretty much down to the ground. To be frank, She informed her EXH that she was in love with me at my insistence, but before I really had made up my mind about her and our relationship. I was more interested in her self improvement than I was in any continuing relationship with her, AT THAT TIME. Of course, that obviously changed. I know this is a T/J so I'll only say that outing our affair was a very good thing in our particular situation. I'm sure that it isn't in other situations, but I still feel that is the prerogative of the BS. In our case, her H had political aspirations, so he wanted it kept quiet. I told my Commanding Officer and some family members and friends, and she told her family and some friends too. I think her EX only told his Lawyer and Campaign manager. Edited August 19, 2013 by JustJoe
Got it Posted August 19, 2013 Posted August 19, 2013 I have never made any "low and unpleasant" comments towards those WS's (WW or WH) who are trying to do the right thing and be honest with their BS's. For their own sakes, as well as for the sakes of the other participants in the affair situation. But I cannot and will not advocate further deception and dishonesty under the guise of "sparing" the BS's Feelings. As a former OM, I know that the main motivation for deceit is so that the cheater can avoid the consequences of their actions. This newfound concern for the BS is touching but late in the game. Where was it DURING or BEFORE the affair? Speaking of my wife, she was a golddigger and trophy wife back then, she is far , far more than that now. She is a well respected mental health professional, and wonderful wife and mother. I love and respect her before all other women. I didn't , during the affair. I forced D-day to show her that she was so much better than she was. Deceit and secrecy are never, ever good, and rationalizing cannot make them so. Joe, if you don't see the issues and red flags in this post no amount of discussion is going to help.
anne1707 Posted August 19, 2013 Posted August 19, 2013 Joe Stronger Now said this: Oh dear, I am sure you are liked and possibly respected for your work, but you know how it is...we think, she is a nice person but she yells at her kids, or he is a good worker but he has no sense of humor- and right there at the top of this list, sadly especially for women- she is a good worker, but she had an affair with X -you are damaged, less than and in the eyes of the men easy-its just the way it is, we all judge, we all have things we are judged upon -sadly for women, being in an affair is among the worst things you can do-other women scorn you, men think you are easy- Which you agreed with: Quit being defensive, Anne. The poster was giving their opinion generally. I don't think he/she was dissing you personally. Although , I tend to agree with the basics. To your face they will be friendly, but I've never seen any work setting that did not have a rumor mill. And an affair is usually tops on the list of subjects. Which means this: Sorry but the only one doing any name-calling is you. And suffice it to say that satisfying you isn't very high on my priority list, and to the opinions of these nebulous "others" I am completely indifferent. is plainly incorrect. You have agreed with a poster that I am "damaged" and "easy" in the opinion of men yet you say I am doing the name calling. Not quite sure how that works out. The nebulous others being the ones you have already responded to in this thread so indifferent does not quite ring true either. About my family and friends, they universally love my wife, pretty much down to the ground. So how come your wife can be universally loved by friends (which I have not disputed) yet I am someone who is perceived by people who know me as damaged? Why is my situation so different to hers? That is what I don't understand. And yes, you have PMd me to say that you don't like the fact that I still work with the exOM. Well that is not your problem and I absolutely fail to see how that has any bearing on this thread. Joe - you look down on me because I was a WS. Simple as that. I just don't understand why you have this opinion of me (and other fWSs) yet not your wife. Surely you can see that people learn and change? Stronger - sorry to pull your post back up. This is not meant to stir things up between you and me. 2
ComingInHot Posted August 19, 2013 Posted August 19, 2013 Good Morning Just Joe* Two things: 1. It may help if you explain (as best you can on a public forum) what the consequences were for your OW now Wife when the A came "Out". I only have my experiences w/what happened w/my H's A and the few experiences learning of other people's A's that were "outed". 2. PLEASE Change your avatar wording to "NORTHERN MICHIGAN". It creeps me out everytime as NOBODY calls it "upstate Michigan" !!! It just isn't spoken or written that way!* You sound like a Fudgey... lol* 1
Got it Posted August 19, 2013 Posted August 19, 2013 Anne- no worries and you are both correct, although my response was to you it was a generalization of what happens to women when their affairs are outed at work-the double standard that is still in play in society- I get that you are offended but thats how it is-women are judged differently than men in anything sexual-yet another reason I am not a fan of outing-outing brings a whole new dimension to reconciliation that clouds the issue- we all know of people outed at work and we all know their reputation suffers from it-heck, I am a teacher and we know all about the parents affairs-the rumor mill never stops and its the women that are always the ones people judge- Except in the work space and in regards to employment decisions this is not legal and legal action can be taken. This may be a demographic issue or simple rumor mill but actually impacting employment practices is a whole other issue. But I don't agree "this is how it is". It isn't across the board and it shouldn't be.
velvette Posted August 19, 2013 Posted August 19, 2013 Except in the work space and in regards to employment decisions this is not legal and legal action can be taken. This may be a demographic issue or simple rumor mill but actually impacting employment practices is a whole other issue. But I don't agree "this is how it is". It isn't across the board and it shouldn't be. It may not be this way where you work, but it is naïve to think that your reputation and employment cannot be damaged by an affair coming to light in lots of companies/organizations. If an A comes to the attention of the people in charge, there is usually more than just the A they are made aware of..........using company equipment for personal use, long lunch/breaks, other people complaining, inappropriate relationships with subordinates, unprofessional conduct, possible exposure of the company to sexual harassment charges, etc, etc, ad nauseum......seen and heard and had to deal with it all. Those are all things people can be fired for, demoted for or not promoted because of. The rep issue is a whole other thing. Dealt with in private conversations ....she/he is a troublemaker, drama queen/king, has too many personal issues to be effective, too high maintenance, etc. etc. You will never hear it or know it was said. If you ask why you didn't get the job, you will be given some bs thing you need to improve or do better at or simply told someone else had more quals or a better skill set. Happens all the time at lots of companies.
anne1707 Posted August 19, 2013 Posted August 19, 2013 As I said earlier in this thread, I do not think nobody ever suspected my affair. I am sure some probably did and if so then there would have been some gossip. However I actually think long term, people have better things to do than to still be talking about it five years later. I am quite sure I am respected, I am liked and that I am not seen as "damaged" or "easy" by anybody I work with. I can also categorically say that my work performance was not affected (apart from in the immediate aftermath of dday) and that I never took advantage of my employer (long lunch breaks, using company equipment, etc) as has been suggested usually happens. I have always been professional in the work place and my integrity (yes, my integrity) is very important to me. Maybe its because I am not into gossip and cheap talk as some here may be but to me I am work to work, not talk about other people's personal lives.
Spotme Posted August 19, 2013 Posted August 19, 2013 It may not be this way where you work, but it is naïve to think that your reputation and employment cannot be damaged by an affair coming to light in lots of companies/organizations. If an A comes to the attention of the people in charge, there is usually more than just the A they are made aware of..........using company equipment for personal use, long lunch/breaks, other people complaining, inappropriate relationships with subordinates, unprofessional conduct, possible exposure of the company to sexual harassment charges, etc, etc, ad nauseum......seen and heard and had to deal with it all. Those are all things people can be fired for, demoted for or not promoted because of. The rep issue is a whole other thing. Dealt with in private conversations ....she/he is a troublemaker, drama queen/king, has too many personal issues to be effective, too high maintenance, etc. etc. You will never hear it or know it was said. If you ask why you didn't get the job, you will be given some bs thing you need to improve or do better at or simply told someone else had more quals or a better skill set. Happens all the time at lots of companies. All true. In addition, there can be company or industry-specific reasons a work place affair can be an actionable problem - security, for instance, can be compromised by the mere existence of an affair in some situations. In the case of H's company culture, an extremely high value is placed on transparency, as a behavior and character trait, as well as taking responsibility for one's actions (personal or professional) and on personal relationships not impacting work relationships (for example failure to call your AP out on something they did wrong because of who they are too you). A workplace affair would be seen in an extremely negative light for those reasons and could affect the company's evaluation of those involved (male and female). Knowledge of a non-workplace EMR might also have an impact, although not to the same extent. At my workplace on the other hand, the only person to have an affair with would be my male boss (Ew!) and that would end my employment there one way or another, I'm sure, because my bosses are married to each other and own the company.
Got it Posted August 19, 2013 Posted August 19, 2013 Got it, I see what you are saying, but if we can not legislate away the biases that exist in our society..women are judged more harshly than men in affairs, it's just the way it is...not being dismissive by saying that but society does not change just because something is unfair or wrong..I don't agree with it, just simply stating the way it is...if anyone believes there is no rumor mill in their place of employment or neighborhood or social circle they are being naive...I am not one to engage in gossip and the fact I know nearly every rumor there is just shows how powerful they are....again, another reason I am not a big fan of outing...I believe affairs to be a personal matter, not something to ruin someone's life or reputation over, but that does not mean I do not acknowledge that it happens...I know my husband remains fearful that his will be exposed either in our social circle or at work because our OW is a head case, but that's what he signed up for when he allowed himself to become a liar and a cheater... Actually it does. Title XII would be a prime example of that. That is exactly legislation that went against societal norms including sex discrimination.
Got it Posted August 19, 2013 Posted August 19, 2013 All true. In addition, there can be company or industry-specific reasons a work place affair can be an actionable problem - security, for instance, can be compromised by the mere existence of an affair in some situations. In the case of H's company culture, an extremely high value is placed on transparency, as a behavior and character trait, as well as taking responsibility for one's actions (personal or professional) and on personal relationships not impacting work relationships (for example failure to call your AP out on something they did wrong because of who they are too you). A workplace affair would be seen in an extremely negative light for those reasons and could affect the company's evaluation of those involved (male and female). Knowledge of a non-workplace EMR might also have an impact, although not to the same extent. At my workplace on the other hand, the only person to have an affair with would be my male boss (Ew!) and that would end my employment there one way or another, I'm sure, because my bosses are married to each other and own the company. Of course if one is in a supervisor subordinate relationship it is absolutely going to be an issue. But among peers or non connecting departments direct impact is minimal and much harder for a company to be able to stand by disciplinary practices. A company has to be very careful in how they handle these things and even policies against affairs, dating, etc is a very tricky situation as there have been lawsuits of discrimination of marital status, etc. tied to them. One policy that is iron clad is of course the supervisor subordinate. Anything outside of that a company really opens themselves up for issues especially if they are disciplinary the lower level employee and especially if said employee is female. The EEOC has ramped up in this administration and this is a ripe area where they are looking at wrongful terminations and sex discrimination. I have seen several tied to allegations of affairs that did not err in the company's favor.
velvette Posted August 19, 2013 Posted August 19, 2013 Actually it does. Title XII would be a prime example of that. That is exactly legislation that went against societal norms including sex discrimination. Did you mean Title VII which is the civil rights act? Title XII is about banking. Anywho, the only thing this is going to protect you from imo is being treated differently than your A partner with regard to an immediate disciplinary action. It doesn't give you the right to use your workplace as your personal playground with regard to your relationships whether they are considered licit or illicit. If you give the employer anything to work with which could be as little as unprofessional conduct this act is not going to help you. In my experience, most people having A give the employer a lot more to work with. And, the people making these decisions know all about the law and have HR specialists and lawyers reviewing everything they do. Still, you will not likely be able to battle with a law the subtle derailment of your career or reputation if it happens. There will be no proof.
Got it Posted August 19, 2013 Posted August 19, 2013 Did you mean Title VII which is the civil rights act? Title XII is about banking. Anywho, the only thing this is going to protect you from imo is being treated differently than your A partner with regard to an immediate disciplinary action. It doesn't give you the right to use your workplace as your personal playground with regard to your relationships whether they are considered licit or illicit. If you give the employer anything to work with which could be as little as unprofessional conduct this act is not going to help you. In my experience, most people having A give the employer a lot more to work with. And, the people making these decisions know all about the law and have HR specialists and lawyers reviewing everything they do. Still, you will not likely be able to battle with a law the subtle derailment of your career or reputation if it happens. There will be no proof. Really? You feel that employers do this on a common basis? You know far more proactive employers than I do. Usually it is a we did this, now what situation. I have not seen where it has impacted all that much. It might be an industry difference but affairs are not uncommon in different industries and they usually do not carry that much wait in regards to a major backslide on a person's career.
velvette Posted August 19, 2013 Posted August 19, 2013 Really? You feel that employers do this on a common basis? You know far more proactive employers than I do. Usually it is a we did this, now what situation. I have not seen where it has impacted all that much. It might be an industry difference but affairs are not uncommon in different industries and they usually do not carry that much wait in regards to a major backslide on a person's career. I can only speak directly to the company I worked for which was around 200,000 employees with offices nationwide. Disciplinary issues of all kinds were routine. There was a standard operating procedure. Managers at all levels were trained on it and before they took action they sought advice from HR and/or company lawyers. Since there is nothing new under the sun HR usually had already handled a similar case and advised accordingly. Sure sometimes new or inexperienced first line managers screwed up, but usually that was easily fixed before the final action was taken. Most of the mid and upper level managers taking the final actions had years of experience. Perhaps it is different in smaller organizations or those with more turnover.
Got it Posted August 19, 2013 Posted August 19, 2013 I can only speak directly to the company I worked for which was around 200,000 employees with offices nationwide. Disciplinary issues of all kinds were routine. There was a standard operating procedure. Managers at all levels were trained on it and before they took action they sought advice from HR and/or company lawyers. Since there is nothing new under the sun HR usually had already handled a similar case and advised accordingly. Sure sometimes new or inexperienced first line managers screwed up, but usually that was easily fixed before the final action was taken. Most of the mid and upper level managers taking the final actions had years of experience. Perhaps it is different in smaller organizations or those with more turnover. Then your company is quite unique as even with this process there are issues from HR making the wrong decisions at times. I believe that is how class action suits happen. Lawsuits happen. Even when the actions and decisions are routine.
Got it Posted August 19, 2013 Posted August 19, 2013 I think it's a situation of some people really wanting these types of things to happen. Wanting people to be ostracized and publicly shamed, but in reality it rarely happens. I think they feel injustice from that. That because they were hurt and are livid that they want everyone to feel the same way they do about the situation, and when they don't, they feel even more slighted. It's a revenge mentality and I don't do revenge, it doesn't suit me, I don't like the way it tastes (powerful but pathetic often and shameful always). I can't imagine a workplace firing someone because they were doing something legal in their personal lives. ? Money rules the workplace and if a person is making money for your company (and you as it pays your paycheck) they will stay on because you aren't working a job to make friends, you are making money. I think that some people are really irritated by this, that people can do something that they disagree with and yet still be successful and prosper. I think it's a waste of time to worry about what other people are doing or if they are getting their just desserts. It's a lot of energy on something that you just can't control. Even if you succeed in damaging their "reputation" a little bit, it is soon forgotten and usually people can understand why that person strayed in the first place. Especially if the BS is acting out, trying to hurt the AP or the former spouse, then people just kind of go, "ah, well no wonder he/she went outside of THAT relationship". In my opinion, it does nothing except make the person acting out look really bad and the harm done to their targets is minimal if at all. Is that fair? Maybe not, but it just is. I wouldn't waste my time on it (and I didn't when my exH had an affair, I just moved on, no acting out towards the AP at all as it would have just fed the rumor mill more fat to chew on - so it died down very quickly and we all moved on). Thank you, yes. Especially in large organizations, outside of the gossip of the week, no one cares. People do a lot of stupid stuff, I have heard more stories of company functions, lawyers at conferences, executives at conferences, etc that are ripe for issues. It really depends but especially affairs that only involve one employee, it is a non event. Two employees, some factors may come into play but the only time it really blows up is a direct issue with position power and/or executive and a (more often) a public company. It just doesn't matter. No one cares if so and so is screwing someone else (again outside of supervisor/subordinate). 1
Ruffian1 Posted August 19, 2013 Posted August 19, 2013 [ QUOTE] Just as important she would not want to tell the world she was a revengeful biatch. What I am saying is that if she tried to do damage to me publically, it would be something she would very much regret. Ahh . . .no, the public would think you are the revengeful cheater who is trying to get even. Ha, baseballs' Ryan Braun got caught again, so he's blaming the urine collector for being anti-semetic, . . How about accepting some personal responsibility. Most likely, if she is tell, tell, tell, she is done, done, done, anyway.
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