If you would be/were "outed"

[bentleychic]

You obviously don't have much idea what it's like to be a BW. There was no way I was voluntarily "playing any game"; that was what she and my H were doing.

 

I was unable to work immediately after d-day due to the trauma. I considered that she (the OW) had definitely gone after my livelihood, my life in fact, so it was only fair that I went after hers (to use your words). At that stage we were "even", so for her to go after my H's livelihood would be to continue the cycle. As it happens his employer wouldn't have cared.

 

However I accepted that it was entirely up to her whether she did or didn't approach my H's employers. I don't really know if she did as nobody ever said anything to him about it.

 

Some OW are disgusting in my view. They go all out to destroy the BW's life and livelihood, then when the BW reacts to this, they behave like you just said you would, and continue the abuse.

 

I am saying your WH and the OW were the players. Not you. So he should suffer just as much as she. Yes, if my MM sat back and allowed and/or enabled his BS to contact my job and thereby lose my job (which it wouldn't in my current job, but I can imagine it probably did with her religious job), I would want the same justice done to him. Period. B/c he and I are both equally at fault and what's good for the goose...

[bentleychic]

Agree here no doubt- I am not a fan of outing because it seems like it could be a tit for tat situation-however, when you involve yourself in someone elses marriage you have no idea how their spouse will react and truly you just have to be prepared to take whats coming to you-we are all responsible for the consequences of our actions-I would never out anyone beyond those involved but I still can not understand how an OW/OM can be angry with a BS that does-you put yourself in their wheelhouse without their consent, if they out you, thats their choice-

 

Oh, I agree with you. However, the same goes for the WS.

 

As I've said, I'll never be the one to tell BS. That's not me and I wouldn't want to hurt her (I know that sounds stupid) or him by doing so. I have no ill will towards her at all.

 

I could not imagine a time that I would be tempted to become vindictive towards him when I thought about it in the past due to discussions here. However, after reading this, I can say that if he ended it and they ganged up on me together, I'd say he deserves the same consequences that they would attempt to put on me. He's certainly not an innocent. As I said, I don't give a fig. She can do whatever she wants to me, really. That's her right, but it goes both ways (ie. MM/MW and OW/OM).

 

I'm suddenly grateful that my job is pretty much untouchable. LOL

[SidLyon]

I am saying your WH and the OW were the players. Not you. So he should suffer just as much as she. Yes, if my MM sat back and allowed and/or enabled his BS to contact my job and thereby lose my job (which it wouldn't in my current job, but I can imagine it probably did with her religious job), I would want the same justice done to him. Period. B/c he and I are both equally at fault and what's good for the goose...

 

Just who would it be that should mete out the "justice/suffering" (your words) to him though? Certainly it wouldn't be me (the BW) in this scenario. This leaves you (the OW). You would then be outing him to his employer in revenge for me (his BW) outing you to your employer. The fact is, his employer couldn't have cared less. But hopefully hers did.

 

How do you propose that a MM be made to suffer the same as the OW for being outed by the BW? You and he have already cause enormous suffering to the BW and children (in this hypothetical scenario) and here you are proposing more suffering to the MM/BW family. Using your reasoning, it is appropriate that some of this suffering also be directed at the OW, and in my situation outing her to her religious employer and in-laws seemed like a good idea at the time.

 

No, the MM (my WH) did not just sit back and allow/enable me to contact her employer. Once d-day occurred he had completely lost control as had the OW. I reacted how I wanted to react, not how he or she wanted me to. Her own BH had just died, while saving her life, so I also outed her to her in-laws. I can only imagine how awful it must have been for them to find out that their son died while saving their daughter-in-law's worthless arse. (This is an Americanism I've picked up from being here - so I've probably got it wrong- we say arse here not ass).

Edited August 18, 2013 by SidLyon

[JustJoe]

Rev Road,

I've heard talk of this Harley author Nd an Emily as well but never read anything by them so I can neither refute nod support your objective or subjective opinion of the work/s.

 

I'd like to interject though on your writing that the M cannot be R'd. I am an R'd BW w/fWH. There were cracks in the waterford crystal (that is our marriage). My H broke it when he cheated. The love we had was still there just now it was in pieces. He desired to fix the crystal (our M) & after a period of time that I needed, I agreed. There are scars now, in our marriage, much like the flaws in a repaired waterford crystal piece. But unlike before when the cracks weakened the crystal form making it fragile and hard to handle out of fear of damaging it further, our Marriage is stronger than it ever was and for now has no leaks.

My H & I care for our M more and are always on the lookout for the breaks reopening or new cracks forming, and the cool thing is, the more we use our m, just like the more we use our crystal the stronger if becomes.

I understand from your comment that you are STRONGLY against "outing" any A to Anyone. I will not contest your feelings are wrong. For the sake of both perspectives, I'd like you to consider that aside from Vengeance, outing the A CAN obtain the desired affect foe either the BS or the AP.

Outing can sometimes shake the WS out of this "dense A fog" putting and end to the excitement and fantasy OR it can shake the WS into realizing he is not where he wants to be with & in his M, by therefore ending it to be w/OW outside the context of the A (which is what I believe most OW's would like)

 

Rev.Road, I sense this is a sore spot for you. I surmise You are a WS??

If so, please understand, I too have sensitive areas. One being the WS getting their panties in a bunch about the unfairness or ludacy (sp?) of the BS doing what she feels she needs to do after such a betrayal as an A.

all my best!

CIH*

Rev.Road is always looking for excuses for the WS and is almost always against the BS. I think it's a gender thing, IMO.

[JustJoe]

We've all read many times that part of the procedure after DDay is outing the affair. I've advised it myself, although I didn't do it in the case of my now XH.

 

Its definitely something that has to be considered on a case by case basis. And for a BS that doesn't want to follow the procedure there are very real and good reasons why they choose not to. For those that do out the affair , there are also very good reasons other than "punishment" and spite.

 

Because my own and my WS careers were intertwined, it was not in MY best interest to out him. He was a serial cheater, without emotional ties to OW, had a problem he definitely needed and probably still needs help with. I wanted and tried to help him before leaving. A huge thing would have been for HIM to have direct consequences from his behavior. His image was very important to him personally and professionally ...I think if anything was going to make him stop, it would have to be having personal consequences.

 

So, it IS an effective tool. Just because a BS does this, doesn't mean it's for spite.

 

I also was very very angry about his basically inviting strangers into what I thought was my private life, my personal safe place. It actually felt physically violating. For anyone who hasn't dealt with being A BS, it honestly is one of those things that's hard to Imagine. It felt like an assault. So, I certainly did feel completely comfortable about some bad behavior I exhibited. It happens, it's the risk taken. As it happens, I did out one of his OW to her employer , and she did have consequences. But I didn't do it because she banged my husband, he was banging lots of OW. She played the crazy card and I picked it up and gave it back.

 

Also, im pretty private other than here! I was humiliated by husbands behavior, I didn't want my pain exposed. So that prevented me as well. On the other hand, I can absolutely know from my experiences with others that outing the affair takes the secret away, takes the power of the secret away. Its a tool that works for some.

 

I think telling the other BS, is a humane but very difficult thing to do. I did it with a few I was able to tell, it's one of the things I don't regret. And again on the other hand! Years ago I was OW and to this day I don't think I would ever have told his wife under any circumstances. Of course, I didn't know then what I know now.

2sure, I agree with you. There is no hard and fast rule for or against exposing the affair. The dynamics in each case are different and so are the responses. "outing", can be a very useful tool for getting rid of the OM/OW, if the BS wants to R or as a "proof" exacted from the WS that the affair is over, if the WS is a remorseful one. In the cases where there will be no R, it may be used as a punishment, but also as a self-esteem re-builder, to show that the BS is no "doormat". The thing is, it is the choice of the BS and the WS or OW/OM shouldn't complain, if BOTH the affair partners didn't want to face the music, they shouldn't have called the tune.

[JustJoe]

Good job then that your low, highly judgemental and wrong opinion of me does not matter to me. I answer to my husband not you.

Quit being defensive, Anne. The poster was giving their opinion generally. I don't think he/she was dissing you personally. Although , I tend to agree with the basics. To your face they will be friendly, but I've never seen any work setting that did not have a rumor mill. And an affair is usually tops on the list of subjects.

[JustJoe]

BTW, as some of you who are familiar with me and my situation already know. I was the OM in a 4 1/2 year affair and basically outed myself and the WS. Who, also, BTW, is now my wife and the Momma of my kid and kid to be.

[AlwaysGrowing]

Not trying to hurt by lying?

 

Hmmmm...liars=good, gotcha ya.

 

Not a character trait I promote in myself.

 

And as far as what the ap are trying to build is just positivity and bs just need to get over being rejected. Kinda how Hitler felt about his love of Germany.

 

Make no mistake about it....ap's both work at making the bs a non-entity. Nice way to treat others aint it.

 

I am sadden to hear that you have experienced so much betrayal in your life.

[SidLyon]

It just seems strange to me that some OW in particular are so very vocal in their objections to being outed by the BW. They loudly protest how unfair it is and how if it happened to them they would make sure that some dire consequences were suffered by either the BW or the MM.

 

I think some OW do accept it as a consequence of their own reprehensible behaviour especially towards the BW, but others...?

 

Well all I can say is if you don't want people to know you are happy to screw MM, then don't do it. If people find out because a BW told them then it's hardly the BW's fault. Just as when you read of friend's death in the newspaper, it's not the fault of the newspaper for informing you.

 

As for hiding behind the argument that the lies were designed to protect the BW from the unpleasant truth - that's just rubbish.

[anne1707]

Quit being defensive, Anne. The poster was giving their opinion generally. I don't think he/she was dissing you personally. Although , I tend to agree with the basics. To your face they will be friendly, but I've never seen any work setting that did not have a rumor mill. And an affair is usually tops on the list of subjects.

 

BTW, as some of you who are familiar with me and my situation already know. I was the OM in a 4 1/2 year affair and basically outed myself and the WS. Who, also, BTW, is now my wife and the Momma of my kid and kid to be.

 

This is what always bothers me about your posts. You are very quick and happy to make low and unpleasant comments about WS, especially WW. However your wife was WW too. Do you have a similarly low opinion of her too? Do your friends who know of your history have such low opinions? How do you reconcile the idea of staying with someone when according to many of your posts on here, you do not respect her? Or is she the exception? And if you see her differently and all your friends do too then why not me too?

[Silly_Girl]

 

Well all I can say is if you don't want people to know you are happy to screw MM, then don't do it.

 

I agree with this, in this context and in respect of anything we do in life.

[Got it]

Got it, you actually made a good point. "Don't risk more than your willing to lose" Safe to say that goes for all A parties.

 

Consider this all, wouldn't there be or aren't there moments during an A and After when all three parties feel tbey have nothing left to lose?

WS risks it All by his cheating lying and gaslighting. Or he risks it all by "outing" A himself.

OW/OM risks everything during or after A by outing, then continuing to "out" to those informed of A in "self defense".

BS risks it all by outing the A to "All who will listen" or even to those close to her/him. Word of A's travel fast...

 

CIH - Absolutely. I think that happens a lot or how someone feels at the moment. They feel they have nothing to lose so that can be the catalyst for the affair or for doing whatever.

 

I understand why one would do the scorched earth tactic, I don't see it as an inconceivable idea, I just advise people thinking two steps ahead to make sure that it works best for them. Just like the person(s) in the affair should think two steps ahead. If the affair coming out will blow your world up and that the collateral damage is greater than you wanted then that should have been thought through.

[Got it]

Got it, question (w/disclaimer*):

Have you thought about what You would do if your exMM now H were to cheat on you?

 

disclaimer- I HOPE this NEVER EVER happens!! I sincerely wish you & your H have found love everlasting and work through the "dry/stale"periods and weather all storms Together!!

 

Yet, if he did... Would you stay silent? Tell just a few for support? Scream it from the mega-phone because after all, he should KNOW better and "pay" for it this time around?

 

I ask you because you seem pretty level headed*

 

I know it is easy to say what I "think" I would do and what reality would dictate. So here is my theoretical so I beg some leeway. But what I would hope I would do is what I said in the one thread over on Infidelity. I would hit hard and fast but telling others isn't necessarily part of it. I would probably communicate to those close to me which makes sense. But I would go straight to divorce and straight to NC. I hope to not give any wiggle room on the fence and not indulge any conflicting feelings. In my eyes, and based on my past experience, if you cheat you are done with the relationship as that is the ultimate disrespect you can do against someone, so I am going to grant the perceived wish for a divorce. If that is not the case then that was a poor way of going. I hope to hold a very hard line and put the offender on the defensive/pursuing position and gives me the power to start making the decisions. If he doesn't pursue, well in my eyes he was gone already. If he does I can take my time to evaluate if I want this person any more.

 

I know I would be devastated, but I know I have walked away from him before. I would immediately get into IC for support, I would need to watch my eating because I know my eating disorder would flare up (as it does in times of great stress). And I would go to those for support online, in real life, and journaling.

 

We have discussed this a great deal and I don't know if either of us has the energy or desire for another affair after all of this. Knowing what held us back from walking away before just isn't there any more. I have posted before but looking at our whys, what we have learned, what we have worked on in therapy, I think/hope we would just walk away. And remember I have just the same equal chance to cheat as I too was a WS. And I also recognize I had worse coping mechanisms than he did. I believe for him the big catalyst was his wife's affair. I didn't have this catalyst. I had a cake eating mentality and a lack of communication in my marriage. I also had a definite tallying mentality that became a "tic for tat" mentality. So I have worked a great deal in therapy on it but I know that I need to focus on myself. I feel I am more likely to go down the slippery slope based on my past behaviors than he would.

 

But at the end of the day I have learned you can't assume anything. If he does, he does. Bottomline I know I will be okay. That while it would be very painful my identity will never be all about him (a codependency issues I had in my marriage) and I will not allow fear of being alone to be a factor (again another issue from my past). I will grieve, I will mourn, but I know that I would be happy again. I know that I will take care of myself, allow myself what it needs to heal, and I will go out to a happy life. I also know I have a very healthy temper/self righteousness that helps motivate me forward.

 

So that is what I think and hope I would do based on past experiences. I will tell you I would definitely get the dog darn it.

 

But telling everyone, no. That just isn't my style. I would rather go out with the possibility of him looking back and remembering me with dignity and a cold anger. The scorched earth can give the other party the ability to reassure themselves the awfulness of the BS. I have little desire to give that out. Plus I don't see the point. I just don't see it as productive and I hate people knowing about my life. So town crier isn't my style.

[Got it]

I am not so stupid to think my colleagues never suspected anything. The exOM was though. As for whether people think I am a "crappy person", well I hate to let you down but I know I am respected and liked at work.

 

 

Oh dear, I am sure you are liked and possibly respected for your work, but you know how it is...we think, she is a nice person but she yells at her kids, or he is a good worker but he has no sense of humor- and right there at the top of this list, sadly especially for women- she is a good worker, but she had an affair with X -you are damaged, less than and in the eyes of the men easy-its just the way it is, we all judge, we all have things we are judged upon -sadly for women, being in an affair is among the worst things you can do-other women scorn you, men think you are easy-

 

Maybe where you are but I don't think this is everywhere. Funny if this was the case we wouldn't have half the people at our wedding that we did.

 

But the above, and someone's personal life doesn't factor in if it isn't about their professional life. At certain levels no one gives two sh%t how you spend your personal time if you are producing at work.

 

God what a sexist view point that a woman is damaged if she had an affair. I guess for the guy its a notch on the belt? Good lord where do you work/live!?! How backwards.

[fanine]

Maybe where you are but I don't think this is everywhere. Funny if this was the case we wouldn't have half the people at our wedding that we did.

 

But the above, and someone's personal life doesn't factor in if it isn't about their professional life. At certain levels no one gives two sh%t how you spend your personal time if you are producing at work.

 

God what a sexist view point that a woman is damaged if she had an affair. I guess for the guy its a notch on the belt? Good lord where do you work/live!?! How backwards.

 

I know for sure in this day and age my work would not have cared if the wife of my xMM had somehow been able to contact my work. If it had been affecting my work then yes maybe they would have been concerned, but I would reckon they would think it was some crazy woman up to no good and would not have batted an eyelid....

[Got it]

I know for sure in this day and age my work would not have cared if the wife of my xMM had somehow been able to contact my work. If it had been affecting my work then yes maybe they would have been concerned, but I would reckon they would think it was some crazy woman up to no good and would not have batted an eyelid....

 

Yes it just doesn't factor in at my work. Sure do people talk, absolutely but the idea of business decisions being done based on it is ridiculous. And since progressive discipline most happen, going to HR with less than substantiated work related issues on why you are feeling negative towards this person is going to fall on deaf ears and you would be punted back into the pool to keep swimming. And if there is an affair and treating the woman differently the man, great way to walk a company right into a sexual discrimination/hostile work environment lawsuit.

[Speakingofwhich]

But telling everyone, no. That just isn't my style. I would rather go out with the possibility of him looking back and remembering me with dignity and a cold anger. The scorched earth can give the other party the ability to reassure themselves the awfulness of the BS. I have little desire to give that out. Plus I don't see the point. I just don't see it as productive and I hate people knowing about my life. So town crier isn't my style.

 

I agree with this concept of not being the town crier. It does seem to me to be undignified. And may have elements of revenge linked to it.

 

In my social circle a long time ago a couple divorced over her As, yes, plural. We were all supportive of him, a seemingly great guy with children.

 

He outed her to the world.

 

What happened was that his outing her was in revenge and he could never get enough of it or stop doing it. His children, whom he had a great relationship with at the time of the D ended up estranged from him as his bitterness toward their mother, and his inability to stop trying to destroy her, ruined his relationship with them.

 

Shortly after he D 1st W he married 2nd W, had a family with her and left her, too. There was no infidelity and I wondered if his bitterness toward 1st W helped destroy second M. He's now with 3rd W. He is still bitter toward wife #1 and still outing her!

 

His bitterness has cost him his relationship with all of his children, from 1st and 2nd M. He has no relationship at all with them because of that.

 

His first W has done very well and regained the respect of the community as she stood by her children and reared them well, through great hardship of being a single mom without the support of exH. She has a great R with her kids and grandkids and he has none at all.

 

It seems he began to enjoy revenge on her, it became addictive, and ruined his life.

[Got it]

BTW, as some of you who are familiar with me and my situation already know. I was the OM in a 4 1/2 year affair and basically outed myself and the WS. Who, also, BTW, is now my wife and the Momma of my kid and kid to be.

 

Let's not get too sanctimonious here like you were this noble individual. You were fine with an affair for over 4 years. It wasn't like you went 4 days and "did the right thing". You were ready for the relationship to move the next level so you changed the playing rules to get what you wanted.

 

This is like Wiener claiming he didn't cheat as bad as the next guy because it was only sexting.

[ComingInHot]

Got it, amazing post that gave me (and hopefully) insight!

I appreciate the time you took to explain to me and the respectful way in your presentation*

I wish you & your H the very bestestestest!! ((happy face))

CIH*

[ComingInHot]

LHF wrote, "I do agree that in most cases (I'm not saying all) for a single OW, the consequences of telling the people in her life won't have the hell and brimstone impact that some might like it to."

 

I agree (for the most part). I think my H's stitch is a pretty good example (although it may have been even a little worse for him than what OW's go might face). My Husband's family was mortified, shocked, angry, disappointed BUT NEVER for one second stopped Loving him. They immediately rallied around My H, Me & our children in loving yet firm resolution for H to acknowledge what he had done (he had already, to himself which is why he dumped exow), confront him on his issues (long time coming on the issues thing), then support him with his decision to R. The "hard line" his family drew was that NO woman would be welcome into his Large family, if she came in as a mistress through adultery. But since that isn't what my H wanted in the first place, the line was/is easy to comply with.

 

Bottom line, in a decent family, no matter the disappointment, or frustration with others in the family circle, I believe they will "be there" for the struggling person and love them no matter what. Even if they disagree with the behavior. I cannot imagine turning my back on my children or deciding Not to love them no matter what they did.

 

Don't think for one second though, I wouldn't beat the Crap out of them with a good motherly verbal assault, or even a slap across the face if they ever cheated on their spouse. I totally would!! I would also continue to love them and do whatever needed to either R or end the M.

Same goes if a BS called me with news they enabled someone to cheat on their spouse. I would take that opportunity support and love them still.

[ForeverHopeful1]

Not catty, honest.

 

And with us, it's not a concern, his divorce is nearly final. But at the time it could have been a problem.

 

I don't think an AP should reveal anything about anyone. So, please don't get the impression I want to do anything to her at all. I just want her to move on, as we have. And I don't want to hear how I ruined her marriage. She ruined it long before I came along. Have a good evening.

 

Why wasn't it over long before you came along then?

[Daisy2013]

I would lose everything if outed. H would walk with no chance of reconciliation. My kids, though almost grown, would be angry, even though my oldest has told me she wants me to be happy.

 

A has ended, it may one day come out, I don't know. I won't worry about it. I will work on me on what drove me to be so vulnerable so it doesn't happen again. This A was a fluke as I'm not really in situations for As to occur and don't look at other men. But should something like this happen again, then it is me, and I will divorce before continuing in a relationship.

[Realist3]

I'm not going to get involved in a post that's on the other board right now (especially as an xOW) but I have a question for xOW/OM of current OW/OM.

 

Your A is discovered. The BS (your BS or MM BS) tells everyone you know, friends and people you work with.

 

What would you do?? How do you think you would handle yourself? What "consequences" do you think you'd suffer??

 

This always confused me when I read where people say "tell everybody, out the AP to anyone who'll listen, tell the world"

 

After my BSO discovered my A, he told his parents then told mine. (my brother and sister already knew) I actually told all my bosses (all 4) what was going on (xMM and I used to work together). My family didn't shun me. BSO parents didn't shun me. I wasn't an outcast at family outings. My bosses didn't look at me different (I've always done my job and always did a great job, it was even commented on that if xMM were still working there he'd have been let go, not me, even though he'd had 20 years seniority on me)

 

Maybe my situation is a little different (relationship at home with BSO) that even with people knowing I didn't suffer the consequences some people feel every OW/OM should suffer.

 

What do you think about "tell, tell, tell, Tell the world about your WS and the AP"??

 

 

If my wife tried to do that crap to me it would be "over, over, over", and I would never speak to her again except through an attorney.

 

Telling all over the world is so completely childish. Whatever wrong that took place happened between the two parties involved. That's it. Airing dirty laundry is juvenile.

[MissBee]

If my wife tried to do that crap to me it would be "over, over, over", and I would never speak to her again except through an attorney.

 

Telling all over the world is so completely childish. Whatever wrong that took place happened between the two parties involved. That's it. Airing dirty laundry is juvenile.

 

Well if she did that, by then I'm sure she wouldn't really care if it was "over over over "...

 

I'm laughing because I imagine the whole scenario being juvenile, some argument about "I'm cheating on you and you told everyone, how could you transgress the sanctity of our relationship by doing that??? I was cheating, yeaa but so what? No need to tell everyone! I would've given you a chance to give me a chance but NO...it's over, over over!" LMAOO

[Realist3]

Well if she did that, by then I'm sure she wouldn't really care if it was "over over over "...

 

I'm laughing because I imagine the whole scenario being juvenile, some argument about "I'm cheating on you and you told everyone, how could you transgress the sanctity of our relationship by doing that??? I was cheating, yeaa but so what? No need to tell everyone! I would've given you a chance to give me a chance but NO...it's over, over over!" LMAOO

 

That is somewhat humorous reading it on a message board. Ha ha!

 

Anyone that tries to ruin me like that is dead to me.