Depressed about bf not wanting marriage

[sweetcakexo]

Hi all,

 

I will really try to keep this brief as I am known to be verbose.. please bear with me. I really need help with this as I feel like I cannot talk to anyone about this, not my parents, I hardly have any friends bc I'm not a partier anymore and it is hard to make trustworthy friends, and of course my bf and I are at odds over this.. Please be easy on me too as I am in a very vulnerable place about this issue.

 

So my bf and I have been together for 3 wonderful years, like any couple, we have had our ups and many downs.. MANY downs. But anyway, when we had first gotten together, we had discussed that we do not ever want to get married as we felt marriage complicated things. I was an independant party-girl (very out of control) and he, was a very level-headed, very responsible and reasonable/laid back type of guy.

 

Fast forward to 3 years later to the present, and I desperately want to get married because, well, now that we have become more involved in our Christian faith, I believe that is the right thing to do. He brought up having kids soon and I told him I felt the right thing to do was to get married first as I want all of us to be a family that shares the same last name, I want us to be one big COHESIVE unit and to be united in that way. He didn't agree and said that we don't need to be married to be happy. I agreed BUT.. I told him that I would love to be married to him because I didn't think I would've ever met someone to have changed my mind to WANT to get married. I felt he was the one for me.

 

The reason I felt marriage didn't matter so much in the beginning was because I was a self-admitted "commitment-phobe" and honestly had the mentality of "well, how would I know this decision I'm making in my early 20's is something that I will be at peace with when I'm in my 50s? Things change and I might change my mind".

 

But..

 

Now that I absolutely KNOW he is THE ONE that I love and want to spend the rest of my life with, I would love to get married.

 

Why, you ask? Well, for many reasons. I want to eventually have children with him (I'm 28 he is 29), and I would like for us to be ONE big COHESIVE unit, (no one in his family has gotten married, he is former military so in his words, he has not EVER seen a successful marriage (but many many MANY divorces, and MANY horror stories), AND, he had gotten married before deploying FOR MONEY ONLY (admitted it to me.. unbeknownst to me, he said this is so very common in the military.. (marrying for money.. happens WAY more often than you think or even know), and said that getting out of that marriage was a pain in the ass, amongst otherthings ..

 

You can imagine HOW that makes ME feel like "Wow.. SO... The guy I love... got married to some b he doesn't even love (or even know really, or like, who he tried to make it work with, BUT he only knew her for a couple of months before deploying.. again, he only got married for MONEY), and then doesn't even want to get married to me, the one who he has been with for 3 years, the one he moves heaven and earth for, sacrified SO MUCH FOR, and the one he supposedly LOVES?!?".. That makes me feel absolutely horrible and heartbroken.. like a piece of crap that doesn't even matter..

 

I also have to tell you that through his actions, I KNOW he absolutely loves me with all his heart, and I must also disclose that.. one of the main reasons why I know he is very turned off to marrying me, is because I have an estranged sister who has made our life nothing but HELL and has had it out for him ever since we got together.. She used to tell my parents untrue crap about him and about me, and so my parents would be biased and just listen and . inevitably become biased in some ways which of course is a very helpless feeling for him and for me. She has also tried breaking us up numerous times because she has always hated me my entire life.. SO, he said that SHE is one of the main reasons why he doesn't want to get married to me, because "I may want to invite her to our wedding (we have been estranged for a year.. and NO that is NOT the case, I told him I do not want any further contact with her) and he said that "my parents may try to get me to invite her to our wedding". I told him I would not allow that to happen!! I told him using her as an excuse may have SOME validity.. BUT.. I have told him numerous times I Would not invite her and I know he is afraid of the influence she has, but still.. I told him I wouldn't invite her. I think he is afraid cause when I did let her in my life periodically, she has always tried to be manipulative and tried to break us up for no reason (she just doesn't like seeing me happy that's how she always was).

 

Lastly.. another thing that he said was that for his bachelor party (if he were to have one).. he wanted to go to Thailand. This was a huge NO for me as many parts of Thailand are known for cheap sex and other sexual stuff. From what he told me (and I had no idea of this BEFORE he had "educated" me on this).. Bachelor parties are supposed to be like the "last horrah" for the guy, so technically, the guy is free to do whatever he wants.. Now before you think he's a woman-izer, let me tell you that he is one of the most HONEST people I have ever met, and he is NOT the cheating type.. He even tells me stuff even when I KNOW he could lie about it (I've tested him several times and he has passed lol). The fact that he told me is honest in itself as it is "guys code". He said growing up watching movies like "The Bachelor Party" and movies like "The Hang Over" exemplify what the Bachelor parties are "really" about, it is just an unspoken thing and the guys usually cover for the bachelor. Again, let me tell you that this is a guy who had voluntarily given up drinking/partying/his douche military friends for me 3 years ago, without any resentment or asking of this, and did this because he loves me, so I want you all to know that, I know it is VERY easy to see his mentality as douche-bag mentality, but I want you to know that he is a VERY great guy, just SORELY MISGUIDED and is making me heartbroken over this stupid backwards freakin mentality about 1) the Bachelor party (which he said he doesn't want to do bc it is something I don't approve of.. BUT it is something that he grew up believing like it's a rite of passage even though it is considered 'wrong', it's like a tradition. (ugh). I even told him he could do it just cause it's his stupid rite of passage, just be safe about it, even though I really really don't want that, but that's how bad I want to be married), 2) his stupid stance on my sister and how I told him "you are letting her win if you don't get married to me BC of her and he said she does have a lot of power and he doesn't want her to possibly ruin our relationship (even though I KNOW it won't happen cause I don't talk to her), and 3) He got married solely for the money to the girl (that is VERY common in the military) and he said that he doesn't want to get married again as he is just turned off to marriage after that incident and the fact that he has not ever seen a "successful marriage".

 

Might I also add somethin else to the mix.. He got me a promise ring from Tiffany's (it said I love you on it, no diamond though), but I had lost it then over the course of a couple of years (I can't remember the time line), but he got me 3 other promise rings from Tiffany's (yes, so remember I said we had some downs in our relationship? Yeah well one of these times he intentionally got rid of it the other times I lost it cause I would wash my hands at the restroom then accidentally leave it).. Most recently like in the last year, he got me an engagement ring from Zales and said that it was a promise ring. I said 'promise ring, for what? Promise that we're going to be together forever? Promise that you're going to marry me? I'd have to wait forever then".

 

He said all of these were promise rings and that the Zales one that I picked out, even though was a diamond and it is called the Signature Princess cut engagement ring, I was the one that wanted it, and he didn't say it was an engagement ring. I also got him an engagement type ring. I guess you could say that I was/am desperate and sad that he doesn't want to get married to me. I want to mention that when I gave him his engagement type ring, he was always proud to wear that around other people and would wear it daily, so it's not a matter of him not wanting people thinking that we are married cause he doesn't care if people think we're married and was actually quite proud of it, and would go back in the house to get it (without tellin me what he was going to do, he would just go back in the house to run and get it and put it on then I'd see he did that).

 

I keep telling him it's not fair how he got married to that girl and how he doesn't want to get married to me..it's just not fair.. I told him that things change and I really love him and want to get married to him and he said that he just doesn't want to get married because of the above reasons. He said I'm coming from a very sweet place but for the above reasons, he just can't.

 

I really don't want to break up with him and I don't know what to do. He said that marriage just complicates things and that a piece of paper shouldn't matter this much and that we could move to a state with common law marriage. I told him that if something were to happen to him, as his gf, I have no legal authority to make any decisions and that as a married person, there are a lot of benefits, financially, socially and otherwise.

 

Sorry... I know I said I would keep this brief but I feel like I cannot talk to anyone about this.. It's also hard too as we have just moved to a different state and I feel alone and I don't want to tell my parents about this cause they do not have a close relationship (they're cordial, and I do not want them thinking badly of him as they are already not super close), and I don't have many friends since I have found it hard to find friends that don't just party as I used to.. :-(

 

What should I do? I would be okay with staying with him I guess, but I don't want to just "settle" and we have been through HELL on earth and then some together.. Am I being too harsh on him to not be grateful for what we already have? We have a wonderful relationship and just "get" each other, other than this.. I do, however, know that this type of topic is a deal breaker for many.. I just don't know if I should just live with this decision OR if I should.. (gulp) move on.. ...What would you do?..

 

If you made it this far into my post or have at least skimmed it, thank you and I appreciate it. I really hope to hear from you soon.

Edited August 15, 2013 by sweetcakexo

[TigerCub]

I read most of your post and these things stood out:

 

1) you say he's so honest - yet he's a person that got married solely for money

 

2) he's using your sister as an excuse. Look, my sister hates her husband's brother, but that didn't stop the wedding from happening, and because he is her husband's only sibling, he was at the wedding - without incident,because they acted like adults. I really think your guy is making up excuses.

 

3) bachelor parties aren't meant as a free pass ( go f*ck however you like). I've known guys that had parties with strippers and I've known guys that just did something like paintball and drinks after so all that crap he's giving you about how it's a free pass ritual is bull and you would be a fool to allow it just to get married.

 

You go on about how you wanted marriage after getting more involved in your christian faith but no where in your argument for marriage do you mention anything about kids born out of wedlock. Your argument is just about having the same last name. ( which is valid) I just don't see how getting more involved in christian faith made you want to get married.

 

And then you go on to say how you'd agree to his f--k fest bachelor party - is that allowed in your christian faith?

 

I think you want to get married for the sake of being married - so you're willing to put up with and justify a lot of bs to attain that goal.

 

There is nothing wrong with wanting to get married and having a family, but please be sure you're doing it for the right reasons - and honestly he seems very sketchy.

Edited August 15, 2013 by TigerCub

[sweetcakexo]

I read most of your post and these things stood out:

 

1) you say he's so honest - yet he's a person that got married solely for money

 

 

Hi TigerCub. Thank you SO much for responding to me. I'll respond to each of your points as I really feel it's important.

 

Yes, I completely understand how you would feel he is shady.. He actually told me that the first month we got together that he was married before and that he made a HUGE mistake. I'll give you a lil' bit of back story. He grew up in poverty in Brooklyn NY and so money was VERY hard to come by. I guess getting married was part of the hustle mentality. The huge amount of being married versus not being married in the military (depending on your rank) can be a difference of $1,000 - $2,000 MORE a month which is why SO many soldiers, though hugely morally corrupt in this aspect, opt to get married for the money. Quite alluring but still unacceptable and morally WRONG motivations for marriage in my opinion. I can tell you right now that that is the ONLY 'secret' that he has kept from me the entire 3 years we have been together. I know that I am defending him pretty hardcore, but I feel this is important as there are two sides to very story.

 

2) he's using your sister as an excuse. Look, my sister hates her husband's brother, but that didn't stop the wedding from happening, and because he is her husband's only sibling, he was at the wedding - without incident,because they acted like adults. I really think your guy is making up excuses.

 

 

.. I really, REALLY wish I could explain HOW severe toxic their relationship is (as well as my relationship with my own sister who is 4 years older than I, is). See, my sister is a COMPLETE LIAR, she abuses drugs and really, is a MASTER manipulator and con artist. People do not suspect her for being the cunning and ruthless manipulator she is, as she is extremely intelligent and is widely successful in her career. She continually deceives people with her lies and for seemingly no reason at all does she make up bs and deceives. I cannot tell you how many times she has lied about my bf and about myself to other people, and how she is a complete narcissist. He knows that since I have always wanted a relationship with her as she is my older sister, I would be willing to take a lot of crap from her. This went so far as us all going to therapy with my psychologist, and him saying right away that she does NOT view me as an equal, and more than likely NEVER will.. we have tried working things through but when a person like that is unprovokingly cruel for no reason (and has their own personal judgments for whatever reason) there is little that we can do to improve the situation. It was best for us to completely sever ties from her as she is 'nice to our face but COMPLETELY evil behind our backs' (An example of this would be.. going to our resident manager and telling him about our personal lives (we don't even KNOW him and why is she telling him OUR businses and/or FAKE business?! He told us that she started telling him all this crap about us. Another thing is she meant to send a text message to our mom but she sent it to me..amongst other things.. and she and I were on "good terms" at that time. I just don't understand her).

 

 

3) bachelor parties aren't meant as a free pass ( go f*ck however you like). I've known guys that had parties with strippers and I've known guys that just did something like paintball and drinks after so all that crap he's giving you about how it's a free pass ritual is bull and you would be a fool to allow it just to get married.

Oh trust me.. I fought tooth and nail about this topic, and then some.. this whole bachelor party crap was way beyond my beliefs and I told him "Just because it's some ritual, that doesn't mean that you SHOULD just go along with it.. You're an ADULT and YOU make YOUR choices don't you?".

 

You go on about how you wanted marriage after getting more involved in your christian faith but no where in your argument for marriage do you mention anything about kids born out of wedlock.

 

I actualy didn't mention this in my post, but the entire reason why this fight started today, WAS because he brought up the topic of children. He said "he wants to have children very soon, like in a year". And I came back with "I don't feel it's the right thing to do to have children WITHOUT us being married as that is NOT how I want to bring children into this world. I want to be sure we do things the RIGHT way, and to be FIRST be married and THEN have children".. Then that is how we got into this entire issue.

Your argument is just about having the same last name. ( which is valid) I just don't see how getting more involved in christian faith made you want to get married.

Being married under God and having the same last name definitely are key important things for me, but again, I would love ideally for my future children to have their parents to be united in the institution of marriage.

And then you go on to say how you'd agree to his f--k fest bachelor party - is that allowed in your christian faith?

No it is not allowed in our Christian faith but to say that we follow everything to a T doesn't make me a bad person. That was desperation on my part and would be the absolute LAST resort to this situation.

 

I think you want to get married for the sake of being married - so you're willing to put up with and justify a lot of bs to attain that goal.

I want to be married because I feel it is the right thing to do and I absolutely LOVE him. Ideally I want our children to be brought up with a mother and father that are married, I do NOT want to have illegitimate children although I would love them nonetheless. That is NOT ideal for me though.

 

honestly he seems very sketchy.

I see your POV and understand completely. I know that he is a wonderful person but again has some pretty messed up beliefs about the bachelor party and I am hoping to change his mind as he IS an open-minded person. I believe it is possible for him to turn things around for the better (in other words NOT want to pursue that type of bachelor party).

 

I also want to report happily, that when he came back home, he came in and said that he does want to get married, just not right now as he is still going to school and that that is something we can talk about when he is finished with school. That still does concern me as there is really no concrete time frame involved (he is going for his masters then his doctorate), but as long as I KNOW it is coming, I am not too concerned. I just hope it all comes to fruition as I would really love for it to.

 

Thank you again for your response

Edited August 15, 2013 by sweetcakexo

[TigerCub]

Thanks for adding more info sweet cake

 

You know him much better than I do obviously. But I still don't buy it.

 

Any guy that tells the girl that he wants to have children with and marry - that he wants a free f*ck pass for his bachelor party - isn't truly committed to her or in love with her. I'm sorry - but I truly don't believe that someone who is in love would do that.

 

As for the good news you got - I'm really not trying to rain on your parade, but telling you that he'd want to get married after he's done with the schooling is probably an attempt to buy time. He's in the process of getting his masters - but won't be done until he gets his PhD - so isn't that like 3 more years - assuming he's half way thru his masters?

 

Don't get me wrong - I think finishing school and getting a career started before getting married is important - but this just strikes me as an attempt by him to get you to wait and be quiet for a few more years - and who knows what will happen by then?

 

The thing is when you guys first met you were both on the same page about not wanting marriage in the future - then you changed your tune ( which is fine) but you can't expect him to change his mind about marriage just because you did.

 

I'd hate for you to get strung along.

 

Sorry if I'm coming off as a downer.

[D-Lish]

Look Sweet, it doesn't matter that you changed your mind about marriage- you don't need to justify your change of mind to anyone. It's something that has become more important to you- while your bf hasn't changed his mind regarding the subject.

 

You need to get over trying to justify why you changed your mind. If everything I was ever adamant and passionate about in my life was written in stone- I'd have a lot of stones lying on top of other stones, with a whole lot of re-etching marks.

[Mycteria]

Him telling you that he wants to wait until he's done with school is just delaying. He probably has no intention of marrying you even then. When it gets to that point, you will have been with him for 10+ years and he probably figures that you'll just give up on marriage by then.

 

Masters programs in my field take about 2 years, and doctorates average 6. His field may require a little less schooling but the timeframe will be similar regardless. That means you will be pushing your upper 30s before you would be married and having kids (assuming you are able to get pregnant immediately, which is not always the case).

 

I don't have any concrete advice for you. I'm just telling oh that the "waiting to finish school" excuse is just that - an excuse. You can pile that on top of "you'll invite your crazy sister" and "well you know what happens at bachelor parties, right?" This guy is telling you whatever he can think of in order to avoid marrying you.

 

You need to set a limit and stick to it. Don't tell him your time limit. When the time passes, break up with him. There is a chance that he could change his mind once he realizes that he really is about to lose you. If that happens, you should accept him back if he truly appears to have thought things over and changed his mind. If he doesn't, then he either did not ever care about you as much as you thought, or you two are just fundamentally incompatible.

[DaisyLeigh1967]

He doesn't want marriage. You are acting desperate.

 

Accept it and move on and find someone who does want to marry.

[Mr. Lucky]

Now that I absolutely KNOW he is THE ONE that I love and want to spend the rest of my life with, I would love to get married.

Let's say you were able to browbeat him into marrying you. Given everything you know about his past (the fake marriage, family history) and present (feelings about marriage, bachelor party plans), how do you think a married future with him would play out ???

 

Mr. Lucky

[Keenly]

I really have never understood women trying to force men to marry them that don't want to get married. Do you really think your relationship will get better after you make him do this? He will resent you.

 

I'm seeing a lot of pressure coming from you directed at him and that's going to push him away. Its also a little off putting that you straight up told him at the beginning that you NEVER want to get married, but then you flip flopped. He probably loved that you didn't want yo get married.

 

You basically have two choices. Accept your relationship for what it is and learn to be happy with it, or leave. Stop pressuring him to do something he doesn't want to / is not ready for .

[Emilia]

So my bf and I have been together for 3 wonderful years, like any couple, we have had our ups and many downs.. MANY downs.

I started skimming your post after this. Why get married if you struggle so much? A lot of the stuff you describe just sounds depressing. It's like both of you are all over the place and have no idea what to do with your life.

[clia]

So my bf and I have been together for 3 wonderful years, like any couple, we have had our ups and many downs.. MANY downs. But anyway, when we had first gotten together, we had discussed that we do not ever want to get married as we felt marriage complicated things. I was an independant party-girl (very out of control) and he, was a very level-headed, very responsible and reasonable/laid back type of guy.

 

It sounds to me like he's been up front with you from the very beginning. He doesn't want to get married; neither did you.

 

Okay, so you've changed your mind. That's not his problem. He doesn't want to get married to you. He told you that.

 

So...your options are to go find a guy who will marry you, or to remain in your current relationship unmarried. Those are your options. I don't think it's fair to him for you to keep pushing this since you've known since the beginning that he isn't interested in getting married.

[CarrieT]

What Clia said.

 

You have changed your mind about wanting marriage and he has not. There is nothing you can do to get him to change his mind; he will have to do that on his own when/if he ever does

 

And that point about the Thailand get-away? Red flag, red flag, red flag... He still has ideas towards "one last fling" and that spells disaster for you and your relationship.

[sweetcakexo]

Thank you all for your comments, the good, bad and the ugly lol.

 

My love and I spoke last night and he said that when we hit the four year mark then we could seriously start talking getting engaged. He said he is seriously giving marriage a second thought because he knows how much it means to me and he wants to get married. Of course I am still a lil reluctant and scared but.. for him to say that really means a lot cause this dude is STUBBORN so I'm happy he is even considering a turn-around. I really hope it works!!

 

Thank you guys again for your comments

Edited August 15, 2013 by sweetcakexo

[Pierre]

Hi all,

 

I will really try to keep this brief as I am known to be verbose..

 

When a guy is truly in love they get married.

 

He is looking ahead for something better.

 

 

Your best bet:

 

 

Dump him ASAP. This may actually be the ticket to marriage. When he finds himself alone he will crawl back to you.

 

 

BTW, are you living with this guy?

[CarrieT]

My love and I spoke last night and he said that when we hit the four year mark then we could seriously start talking getting engaged.

RED FLAG!!!!

 

You have to wait for a four-year mark to even start a serious discussion!?!?! Why not have the serious discussion NOW and have a four-year engagement?

 

What Pierre said... I fear you are going to invest four years into a relationship that will not ultimately produce a marriage.

[sweetcakexo]

When a guy is truly in love they get married.

 

He is looking ahead for something better.

 

 

Your best bet:

 

 

Dump him ASAP. This may actually be the ticket to marriage. When he finds himself alone he will crawl back to you.

 

 

BTW, are you living with this guy?

 

..Yes, I am living with him, have been for about 2 1/2 years. And I know I have heard it once and seemingly a million times now "why buy the cow when you can get the milk for free" lol. I really don't know if I should dump him as every other aspect is great of our relationship But when people have said "he doesn't FULLY want to commit himself to me".. that really hurts me and makes me think he MAY want a way out.. "IF" things don't work out..

[sweetcakexo]

RED FLAG!!!!

 

You have to wait for a four-year mark to even start a serious discussion!?!?! Why not have the serious discussion NOW and have a four-year engagement?

Ok.. so yeah, this is true. Can I also add which may not help his cause lol but I feel like I need to lay this out right now.. (this is going to make him look bad but I need to lay it out and be straight forward). I asked him about "when he wanted children" because he had brought it up yesterday when I was in a sad mood and he said bringing that up would cheer me up. But then that was when I brought up marriage and I didn't want illegitimate children etc, and then that started the fight.. But anyway! So, when I asked him about WHEN he wants children he said "in the future" and I said ".. no number of years or anything? When?.. obviously not today or last year, it HAS to be the future" and he said "in the future, I don't know exactly when".. And for the marriage thing, he didn't have a time frame either but, the engagement thing he said he'll discuss a year from now (when we make 4 years).

 

Another thing that I need to lay out too, was.. yesterday when I brought up the marriage thing, he said "why can't we just be engaged for the rest of our lives?".. lol freakin ridiculous and insulting to me, I know. Then he brought up living in a state that recognized common law marriage and how he'd be okay if we were married in that way, but he is concerned about 1) my sister and how he doesn't want her to be part of our weddding/our family, 2) how he is traumatized from his own sham marriage and how being former military, he has not seen ONE successful marriage (and no one in his family ever got married which is freakin crazy).. and 3) he doesn't actually want to go through with his thailand trip being that it would hurt me, but he feels that the bachelor party crap is a rite of passage so to speak. Ugh. I told him he is very immature for feeling this way about that topic.

 

What Pierre said... I fear you are going to invest four years into a relationship that will not ultimately produce a marriage.

I'm scared.. he is my one true love, he completely understands me and LOVES ME FOR ME as no one ever has, he has given up SO much for me to be in this relationship.. again, he voluntarily gave up partying/drinking for me when he found out I was having severe alcohol/drug issues, he helped me quit smoking, he is like my therapist as he gives me awesome advice yet is objective even when it doesn't agree with how I feel but is doing what is best for me, etc.. There is SO MUCH good here, and I really do NOT want to change him BUT, HE needs to realize how F'ng stupid his immature mentality is (otherwise he is VERY intelligent but obviously is lacking brain cells in this department)..

Edited August 15, 2013 by sweetcakexo

[CarrieT]

With all due respect, I believe you are stating that "all other aspects of your relationship are great?"

I really don't know if I should dump him as every other aspect is great of our relationship

 

But in your first post, you stated:

 

So my bf and I have been together for 3 wonderful years, like any couple, we have had our ups and many downs.. MANY downs.

 

So is your relationship great or are there more Downs than Ups?

 

 

But when people have said "he doesn't FULLY want to commit himself to me".. that really hurts me and makes me think he MAY want a way out.. "IF" things don't work out..

You have to ask, what "things" need to be worked out? What is going to change in the next 18 months -- assuming that marks the four-year mark (your dates together have changed from 2 1/2 years to 3 years!) -- that is going to magically make him want to get married?

 

 

Seriously - you are living together now and he is not willing to discuss an engagement? You can be engaged for two or three years before there is an actual marriage, you know... Are you supposing that at the magical four-year mark, he will be willing to discuss marriage and then you will have another year or so engagement - making a marriage five or six years away????

[sweetcakexo]

With all due respect, I believe you are stating that "all other aspects of your relationship are great?"

 

 

But in your first post, you stated:

 

 

 

So is your relationship great or are there more Downs than Ups?

 

 

 

It IS great, NOW.. in the past when I was struggling with my alcohol issues, It was HORRIBLE.. but to say that there are more downs NOW would be untrue. I meant that in the past we have had some major downs, so I'm sorry if it sounded like I was referring to right now as I was not.

 

You have to ask, what "things" need to be worked out? What is going to change in the next 18 months -- assuming that marks the four-year mark (your dates together have changed from 2 1/2 years to 3 years!) -- that is going to magically make him want to get married?

 

 

This is VERY sound advice and a great line of questioning that I should ask myself and even ask him if needed. He did say that before we were to ever get married there are things that need to be resolved so those are things we need to discuss. I feel that there will always things that couples will need to work on, but I feel he wants "Everything" to be perfect which ideally, we do NOT live in a "perfect" world and we cannot have EVERYTHING solved as life happens and life doesn't work that way.. but I AM open to working through whatever we need to.

Seriously - you are living together now and he is not willing to discuss an engagement? You can be engaged for two or three years before there is an actual marriage, you know... Are you supposing that at the magical four-year mark, he will be willing to discuss marriage and then you will have another year or so engagement - making a marriage five or six years away????

Good point.. this is something I will need to definitely speak with him about.. I am more than likely lol going to bring this up today when he gets back home. I can't wait a year for this crap, it's now or .. well, never. I am 28 and my bio clock is ticking, so if I am going to have children with someone (being married FIRST of course), I will need to have the tough discussion now..

 

Thank you so much for bein my [semi-harsh] but awesome, reality check, I so needed this as I really don't have anyone to talk to about this..

Edited August 15, 2013 by sweetcakexo

[pteromom]

The thing that stood out most in your post is that you spend a good deal of it defending him. "I know it sounds bad, but he's a great person" type comments.

 

How many "I know it sounds bad"s add up before someone becomes not such a great person?

 

He may not be the type to cheat, but his dream for his free-for-all bachelor party combined with his reluctance to marry points to a desire to be with other women, or at least a fear of being with only one woman for the rest of his life. My guess, based only on what you wrote of course, is that is the root cause of not wanting to get married.

 

I realize you love him, but sometimes love isn't enough. Do you believe you are truly compatible, and that the way you work out disagreements together is healthy enough for a satisfying lifelong commitment? You need to put emotions aside and really analyze this from a logical viewpoint.

 

Then - you need to accept that he doesn't want to get married if you continue this relationship. My guess is he will keep stalling and coming up with new excuses and deadlines.

[Pierre]

..Yes, I am living with him, have been for about 2 1/2 years. And I know I have heard it once and seemingly a million times now "why buy the cow when you can get the milk for free" lol. I really don't know if I should dump him as every other aspect is great of our relationship But when people have said "he doesn't FULLY want to commit himself to me".. that really hurts me and makes me think he MAY want a way out.. "IF" things don't work out..

 

As long as he is not married he has a foot on the door. He has options!

 

I am always amazed at how people say marriage is just a piece of paper, but run away from it like the plague.

[sweetcakexo]

--UPDATE--

 

Okay, so, I basically gave him an ultimatum. I was nice about it at first, then it got a liittle heated. But I basically told him how getting married is very important to me, and I know that I'm the one that changed my mind later on, but I don't think that is a bad thing as I want to take our love to the next level. I said that it hurts me knowing that he doesn't want to fully commit himself to me and that I would love to get married then have children as I do not want illegitimate children.

 

He told me that he is fully committed now (I can see it by his actions), and then he told me that based on our financial situation (we are currently living temporarily with his good friend as we have moved to a different state, he is finishing up his bachelors and is looking for which grad school to attend.. I'm kind of in a very weird spot right now bc being that we do not know which city we are going to move to for his grad school, I am unable to get a job temporarily as most places will not hire you for a couple of weeks to several months (I have checked with the temp agencies and they are only looking for temp-to-hire (meaning, I will more than likely get hired on a permanent basis and not just temporarily). My temporary status will not fly with MOST companies as I have had a fantastic interview however, my moving was a HUGE issue. So the short version, is basically, we are in a really weird place financially and in our lives right now, and he said that he does love me and he DOES want to get married to me and WILL But he cannot put a time on it as we are both in debt, but he knows that he wants to get married bc that is what will make me happy. I asked him finances aside.. does he want to get married. He said YES he does but he does not know when. I told him I don't want to get married just cause I WANT to, I want him to get married cause he wants to. He said I know how he feels about marriage, but he knows that he does NOT want to lose me and knows that if that's what it takes then he will do it to keep me. He said right now he doesn't want marriage BuT things may change in the future. I told him I can't have this maybe crap, I need to know NOW and if you do NOT want to, THAT is a DEALBREAKER.

 

He got really serious about it after I said it's a deal breaker and he said that he does NOT want us to break up but he said that I need to understand how serious the financial situation is...and how, people all the time forgo getting married solely BECAUSE of financial reasons.. it's a huge deterrant. He said that my family is in Hawaii and his family is in NY and we are currently in the mid-west so finances definitely come into play..He asked if we are going to fly his family as they are all in poverty in NY still.. As mentioned, he grew up in poverty which is why the "marriage for money" as he previously did was SO alluring (yet horrible).. well, His family still lives in poverty in NY and continue to struggle, so he said financially, marriage does not make much sense.. BUT, being that he doesn't want to lose me, we WILL get married in the future. We also looked up the average marriage cost .. about $20k.. some people made it work for $5k BUT, that is NOT factoring in flight costs/hotel stays.. ETC

 

He still said that in a year we will re-assess where we are at but right now, we cannot get married based on the above-mentioned circumstances and the fact that it may be impossible to fly his poverty-stricken family out to Hawaii possibly, or even out to the mid-west where we are at.. We cannot afford to even pay for ourselves right now (or even will be able to afford to pay for their plane ticket in the next several years).. I also have about $15-$20k of student loans from my previous bachelors degree and I will need to go back to school as well cause I want to get another bachelors. (then eventualy get a Masters and Doctorate) He is going for his Masters then Doctorate as well but his schooling and living will be paid for as he is former military.. so anyway, I hope this makes you all understand financially how he is looking at things and that he is not just a douce bag.

 

I saw the look in his eye and really truly believed him when he said that yes, he does want to get married to me and I believe that will happen if I continue reminding him that it IS a dealbreaker if we don't. I have not said that before to him and it scared the crap out of him, I KNOW it did. Thank you all so much for your help with this.

 

You guys really helped me understand things a lot clearer. I really would not have thought of this on my own and I really do appreciate your help with my tough situation.

Edited August 16, 2013 by sweetcakexo

[Pierre]

BUT, being that he doesn't want to lose me, we WILL get married in the future. [/b] We also looked up the average marriage cost .. about $20k.. some people made it work for $5k BUT, that is NOT factoring in flight costs/hotel stays.. ETC

 

 

 

You are rationalizing the fact that he does not want to marry you. A marriage license is cheap and a trip to the court house takes only a few minutes. Once you get married at the court house you keep living together as you are now. The marriage will not trigger extra expenses unless you have a child right away.

 

This BS about the need to throw a 20K wedding and fly his entire family is a delay tactic. He is disrespecting you. He will always have an excuse to avoid marrying you.

 

You have low self esteem. A women with a healthy self esteem would walk away from this guy.

[Keenly]

I feel like you are pressuring him to do something he is not ready for by holding your relationship hostage. Am I the only one ?

 

 

It may be important to you to get married, but are you thinking about what's important to him too?

[hoping2heal]

Okay, so, wow.

 

OP, I read your original post and then your follow up post to Tiger Cub, again...okay, so, wow.

 

1. He cheated the system for money, it was a part of the hustle mentality as you say. That makes sense. It doesn't make it right but your presumption that it's part of his hustle mentality and survival probably is pretty dead on. You're offended that he would marry when he stands to benefit monetarily but he won't marry when you've devoted 3 years of loyalty and love to him, you're offended and you should be.

 

2. The sister thing just blows my mind. Reason being, okay your sister is a toxic a-hole..okay, has he stopped dating you? Has he ended the relationship with you? No, he hasn't. Your sister may be Hitler incarnate for all I know but despite her many negative attributes he is still dating you today. So, I guess what I'm trying to say is that if he can tolerate your sister and her BS for 3 years to date you then clearly she isn't that big of a road block in all actuality. I'm going to go with Tiger Cub - it's an excuse.

 

3. The bachelor party thing. Okay, it doesn't happen often because I'm not very naive at this time in my life. But, every so often a post causes my jaw to very literally drop. I can hardly believe what I'm reading, it takes some time to register that what I read is really what was said and bla bla blue blue. I have heard of guys going out to the strip club and whooping it up in the name of a Bachelor party. It is NOT a requirement, there is no weaponry to head. I've equally heard of plenty of Bachelor parties that don't involve the men doing any of that..they go get rowdy but without the use of a woman grinding on them but this thing about going to behave like a sexual hedonist? Holy hell, mind. blown. If my fiance actually thought he was going to fk some other woman there would be issues but knowing how I felt about it and insisting on it anyway? (You did say you fought tooth and nail on the issue so clearly he knows your feelings) I would NEVER marry someone like that. Forget anger, forget issues, forget arguing - there would be no marriage taking place. Maintaining a good relationship is hard enough in the best of circumstances let alone when my partner is out and out communicating to me that my feelings don't matter to him (which is what you're boyfriend is doing if he's actually insisting on this knowing how you feel).

 

You're chasing broken birds with both your sister and your boyfriend. I imagine you've been conditioned by your sister to take being treated like crap as a standard. Now, you do it with this guy you're with. I'm sure it's not all bad - very few relationships are "all" bad, but when the bad outshines the good is where the problem lies. You're not getting what you deserve out of this relationship and I knew it the moment you further explained yourself on the bachelor party issue.

 

It may seem ironic, but it's actually your saving grace that this guy doesn't want to marry you. It's like it's saving you from the self-destructive act it would to unto yourself.