2 things that sunk the ship before it left the harbor.

[Ruby Slippers]

But usually women dont blurt certain things out early on, in order to keep things light and fun.

"Light and fun" is your agenda - not the agenda of a woman who recognizes she wants a family more than a career. You're lucky she was totally up front right away. Now you can move on to someone else "light and fun".

[TB Rhine]

He also says that the issue "came up," not necessarily that the woman blurted it out. We don't know how it came up, who brought it up, etc. Perhaps it would be politic not to bring up such a thing, from either side, but it does come up, are you supposed to lie? Or soft-pedal your answers?

 

I also can't help but wonder where feminism comes into all this - specifically, the line between the type of feminism that says "Stay at home motherhood is a symbol of patriarchal oppression," vs. the one that says "Women should be free to do as they please, including being a stay at home mom, if they so choose."

[BluEyeL]

Another problem with the I want kids soon, and I want to marry and quit my job to be a sahm, said early in dating is that it gives the impression that the person making these statements is focused on finding SOMEBODY to fill those open positions, quick. How selective does that sound? If on the other hand, they take some time to get to know you, it all becomes more special and romantic. I want them to want those things with ME, after learning how amazing I am, not say "meh, I'm in a hurry so you'll do as a baby daddy or provider". In my case, meh, I really want to marry now, so meh you seem ok, you are here so youll doo. How can you know? Take your time, be responsible. On the other hand, for the op is better to know earlier there are incompatibilities. Of course there are exceptions, but I understand the turn off. Especially men don't want to rush to be taken advantage of, they want to be wanted for who they are. That is, most of them. Even the older ones.

[runningfar]

If I was in my 30s of course Id say many guys want kids. And if I was from your generation Id say many guys want a SAHM as a wife. However the younger generation is much different.There are just certain things you dont say to a guy youre getting to know...especially a man my age. .

 

Nah, I know lots and lots of guys in their 20's who want children fairly soon and many who hope that the mother can stay at home.

There's many who feel it's a good choice. What you want doesn't mean it's the norm. Maybe it's location based, but I don't think you match most my friends in the slightest.

 

And, one should always share how they feel about big, important things like this pretty early. When should they share it, when they've invested two years and are about to get married? The pain of losing a relationship because of incompatible goals/principles verse not developing one?

[PogoStick]

With the cost of daycare it can actually save money to have the mom at home. Especially if she can do something a little productive or watch after another kid or two.

[Divasu]

Well, it's good you got out of there quickly and didn't stick your ship in their harbors...

[kaylan]

"Light and fun" is your agenda - not the agenda of a woman who recognizes she wants a family more than a career. You're lucky she was totally up front right away. Now you can move on to someone else "light and fun".

Early stages of dating should always be light and fun. Not a mad dash to a house and kids. Even if I was ready to settle down, that stuff is a turn off to hear from someone you dont know too well.

With the cost of daycare it can actually save money to have the mom at home. Especially if she can do something a little productive or watch after another kid or two.

Daycare? As if.

 

Thats what gram-gram is for.

You didn't go out with Imperfectionisbeauty did you?

????

 

Never that lolz

Well, it's good you got out of there quickly and didn't stick your ship in their harbors...

I see what you did there

 

I wont lie though...Im very tempted to still have a little fun with the first girl. Because its weird, she says some things that make her seem like she wants to settle down soon, but then she says other stuff that makes her seem like she just wants to have fun still. But I guess its better not to do anything.

Edited August 14, 2013 by kaylan

[sweetjasmine]

I expect a mid 20s woman to be mature and sensible. Not just saying how she has baby fever and wants them very soon.

 

So I can't possibly be mature and sensible because I'm in my mid-20s and I find myself really wanting to have a baby within the next few years? That's basically what you're suggesting. That anyone under 35 who really wants to have a child soon is immature and not sensible. That's absurd.

 

I'd just like to point out that you're missing something. You can't possibly understand what it's like to be legitimately "baby crazy." It's beyond just having emotions. It's an impulse like I've never felt before. Again, that doesn't mean you need to date this woman. She's obviously not right for you, and that's fine. But I think a little empathy and understanding would help, since you're likely to run in to more mid-20s women who feel the same way. Some may keep quieter about it, but I guarantee you that this particular woman wasn't a total anomaly.

 

Sorry but thats a turn off. I like a practical woman who can keep her emotions in check.

 

If she couldn't keep her emotions in check, she'd probably be pregnant right now. Talking about it doesn't mean she can't keep her emotions in check.

 

Yes rugrats can be cute little bugger who tug on the heart strings, but its a heavy commitment...and I want to be emotionally and financially prepared for that.

 

Very true. That's the smart way to go about it.

[kaylan]

So I can't possibly be mature and sensible because I'm in my mid-20s and I find myself really wanting to have a baby within the next few years? That's basically what you're suggesting. That anyone under 35 who really wants to have a child soon is immature and not sensible. That's absurd.

 

I'd just like to point out that you're missing something. You can't possibly understand what it's like to be legitimately "baby crazy." It's beyond just having emotions. It's an impulse like I've never felt before. Again, that doesn't mean you need to date this woman. She's obviously not right for you, and that's fine. But I think a little empathy and understanding would help, since you're likely to run in to more mid-20s women who feel the same way. Some may keep quieter about it, but I guarantee you that this particular woman wasn't a total anomaly.

Blurting out "ugh I just want babies" during a mature discussion about the emotional and financial readiness needed to raise kids is NOT mature.

If she couldn't keep her emotions in check, she'd probably be pregnant right now. Talking about it doesn't mean she can't keep her emotions in check.

All Im saying is Ive known a girl or two to say they want babies and then get knocked up young before being able to really take care of them. At my old job I even had one of my 21 year old employees saying how she just wants kids right now. And when I said "well you should finish school and get along in your career first"...she goes "yeah maybe...but I wanna stay home anyways".

 

And shes saying this to me and a coworker whos in her early 20s with a toddler, struggling to get by. I mean...it boggles the mind. I guess Im too practical. If I was a woman I wouldnt have kids until my paycheck said I could, and until I was in a relationship that would def end in marriage if I wasnt already there.

[ChessPieceFace]

Got stats to back this up?

 

I would bet they exist, feel free to look for them, I don't care enough to bother. I do have the fact that it is inherent in the female nature to desire a man that provides more / has more income than they do, conflicting with the feminist BS that women should make as much as men. Those two things are in logical conflict. That often extends to marital conflict. Heck, my friend is successful in a business which is not glamorous, and part of the reason his wife kicked him out is that she didn't consider it a "real job." She's a successful professional woman whose career is perceived as better than his. After almost 20 years she is still looking for that "perfect man."

 

The other career-oriented women I know are always bouncing from man to man, never finding any of them to be "good enough." That's the road you are likely in for.

 

You know what will increase my chances of divorce? Marrying a woman who desires a different family structure than I.

 

This is true, but my point wasn't for you to marry someone who you know goes against what you're currently looking for. My point was to reassess what you're looking for. You rejected a woman just for being family-oriented and embracing innate gender roles. Blows my mind, but whatever. Good luck dude.

[kaylan]

Also sweetjasmine...let me add,

 

My main sticking point is that baby fever doesnt make much sense to me if a girl is in her early or mid 20s, not gainfully employed, and without a foothold in her career path yet. Ive seen my friends who had kids young struggle. And Im sure girls who think like the first chick have friends with kids too....so I cant understand the rush.

I would bet they exist, feel free to look for them, I don't care enough to bother. I do have the fact that it is inherent in the female nature to desire a man that provides more / has more income than they do, conflicting with the feminist BS that women should make as much as men. Those two things are in logical conflict. That often extends to marital conflict.

Um...income desire is not inherent in female nature. Its very societal. Thats why so many women today date and marry guys who earn less than them. Its not feminist BS that women should get equal pay...its the right thing to do. Lets not start with the evo psych stuff. Because the way men and women behave is as much nurture as it is nature.

Heck, my friend is successful in a business which is not glamorous, and part of the reason his wife kicked him out is that she didn't consider it a "real job." She's a successful professional woman whose career is perceived as better than his. After almost 20 years she is still looking for that "perfect man."

Anecdotal evidence about 1 shallow woman doesnt mean much here. Ive known girls who stuck by some dudes who werent "business successful". Be they musicians, artists, writers, or just your average 9to5 white collar guy whos not trying to take over the world and get rich.

The other career-oriented women I know are always bouncing from man to man, never finding any of them to be "good enough." That's the road you are likely in for.

Considering who Ive seen some women in my live fall in love with, I can tell you that there are professional women out there who arent looking for a guy to be so much more "successful" than she is.

This is true, but my point wasn't for you to marry someone who you know goes against what you're currently looking for. My point was to reassess what you're looking for. You rejected a woman just for being family-oriented and embracing innate gender roles. Blows my mind, but whatever. Good luck dude.

Why should I reassess what I want? I know what I want, and Im not gonna settle. Why settle and end up with someone whos not compatible to me? No thanks. I live close to a big metropolis, and there are plenty of independent working gals to go around.

 

PS - Gender roles arent necessarily innate. They vary depending on culture, and the US is definitely going through a cultural shift.

Edited August 14, 2013 by kaylan

[rainfall]

 

You rejected a woman just for being family-oriented and embracing innate gender roles. Blows my mind, but whatever. Good luck dude.

 

 

There was nothing wrong with him rejecting someone who didn't share his vision of what their life would be like long-term.

 

I think he would have a higher chance of divorce if he married someone who had a different view than him on babies and being a SAHM.

[ChessPieceFace]

Considering who Ive seen some women in my live fall in love with, I can tell you that there are professional women out there who arent looking for a guy to be so much more "successful" than she is.

 

You're quoting exceptions and convincing yourself that those exceptions reflect reality. The reality is that regardless of how much a woman makes, most women want (and will only respect) a man that makes more. That's reality. Sure you can find exceptions to the rule, but it will be more difficult for you.

 

Why should I reassess what I want? I know what I want, and Im not gonna settle.

 

"Want" is a slippery thing. I can relate this - I am fundamentally attracted to strong, aggressive women. However, logically I know going after them is a mistake, and is highly likely to lead to a tumultuous and strife-filled life. I am not as attracted to less aggressive women, but it's much smarter to reassess and adjust my mindset to give other women a chance.

 

PS - Gender roles arent necessarily innate. They vary depending on culture, and the US is definitely going through a cultural shift.

 

Yeah, a "cultural shift" where marriage and family are collapsing.

[fortyninethousand322]

Sounds like you were incompatible with these girls.

 

There are costs and benefits to any decision regarding when to have kids. If you have them early they'll be grown up and gone in time for you to have a pretty good life in your 40s and 50s. If you wait, you'll be more financially secure and better able to enjoy your free and easy youth. It really depends on what's important to you I guess.

 

Personally, I wouldn't want to date someone who wanted kids any sooner than 5 years from now. But that's because I'd like a chance to date and have a relationship without a kid gumming up the works. If I had some serious relationships already I'd probably feel differently about that. And I'd also prefer one of the parents to be a stay-at-home parent. Though that's somewhat negotiable. Doesn't have to be the mother, it could certainly be me.

[Mascara]

Even if you're 39 and about to splutter out your last few ova, you don't say it on the first date.

[xxoo]

I know a couple women around that age, with the same goals. They found what they wanted in older guys who were equally eager to get started with marriage and kids. Not that they got preg immediately, but that they realized early on that they want the same thing, and aren't wasting their time with someone who won't want kids for 5+ years.

 

There is absolutely nothing wrong with wanting to start a family in one's 20s, nor being honest about that. You are just not compatible, and you were both fortunate to find that out early.

[Balzac]

You didn't go out with Imperfectionisbeauty did you?

 

ChaChing!!!!

[xxoo]

Because its weird, she says some things that make her seem like she wants to settle down soon, but then she says other stuff that makes her seem like she just wants to have fun still.

 

She's probably hoping to settle down with someone she has fun with

[BluEyeL]

The divorce rate for women with bachelor's degrees, who marry after the age 30 is 17%. The highest divorce rate is in red states, and among undereducated "family oriented", supposedly.

[kaylan]

You're quoting exceptions and convincing yourself that those exceptions reflect reality. The reality is that regardless of how much a woman makes, most women want (and will only respect) a man that makes more. That's reality. Sure you can find exceptions to the rule, but it will be more difficult for you.

Again, where is your stats that what Im saying is exceptions? Im not quoting exceptions...look at this ;

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/30/business/economy/women-as-family-breadwinner-on-the-rise-study-says.html

 

25% of married couples the woman earns more. 1 in 4 is hardly an exception. Keep trying bro.

"Want" is a slippery thing. I can relate this - I am fundamentally attracted to strong, aggressive women. However, logically I know going after them is a mistake, and is highly likely to lead to a tumultuous and strife-filled life. I am not as attracted to less aggressive women, but it's much smarter to reassess and adjust my mindset to give other women a chance.

Dude, I know what I want, and I want a woman who I click with long term. And thats a working woman. I dont have too much in common with woman who want to stay home.

 

Ive noticed a womans desire to stay home ties into her personality and beliefs regarding certain things. We would be incompatible based on her personality and beliefs. Im attracted to and fit with independent working gals. Thats how it is.

 

Stop trying to convince me that your way is better.

Yeah, a "cultural shift" where marriage and family are collapsing.

Marriage wasnt all that great back in the day either. You now, back in the times where the family stayed together...but only cus many women were forced to stay with their husbands because they had no way to take care of themselves.

 

Didnt matter if the guy hit them or cheated as was acceptable years ago....because the woman was dependent on the man.

 

Sorry, but I like the cultural shift where I can get the right kinda girl for me.

[ChessPieceFace]

25% of married couples the woman earns more. 1 in 4 is hardly an exception.

 

But 75% is the exception? Keep trying, bro.

 

Now how many of those 25% marriages are happy? How many stuck together 10+ years?

 

Thanks for quoting statistics which prove my point.

 

Aim yourself for whatever marital train wreck you want. Why should I care? It's your life. I've done my bit for you already.

[Leigh 87]

I think it's ridiculous of people to assume there is anything wrong about the OP's preferences?

 

I am sure he would let her stay home initially, just after the birth. I think he means long term, he is attracted to a woman that is driven in her career. As he is with his.

 

Some women like to bond with their baby for a few months after the birth, therefore those women are better of knowing the OP'S view, so they can determine that are not compatible.

 

Surely the OP has enough options to not miss out on finding suitable partners.

[kaylan]

But 75% is the exception? Keep trying, bro.

Please quote me where I said men marrying women with less income was the exception.

 

What I said ws that it is common enough in todays age for women to out-earn their men, and that number keeps growing. Hell, besides the women who out earn their men, there are just as many who make as much as their men. So gone are the days where the guy absolutely has to make more than the woman.

 

Thats why I disagreed with your earlier point about a womans innate feelings regarding income. Because nearly half of all women date men who make as much money as them or make less money than the woman.

 

Now how many of those 25% marriages are happy? How many stuck together 10+ years?

And how many of other marriages stick together? At the end of the day 50% of ALL marriages end in divorce. Whats that say about marriages with men who earn more since those marriages make up a considerable bulk of all marriages.

 

Thanks for quoting statistics which prove my point.

I did not prove your point at all. Youre making stupid assumptions that the stats dont back up. I said many women are breadwinners...the stats backed that up. You called it an exception. 25% of all marriages is not an exception, its 1 in 4.

 

And even with that said, theres another quarter to a third of marriages where the woman makes money in the same income range as her spouse. Look it up.

 

And nothing in any of these stats says anything about the success rate of the marriages. So how in the world are the stats agreeing with you? Nice try buddy.

Aim yourself for whatever marital train wreck you want. Why should I care? It's your life. I've done my bit for you already.

Youve done nothing. You do seem jaded and bitter though.

 

I mean, how in the world can you tell me that marriage to a working woman is any less successful than marrying a woman who stays at home? You have no stats to back that up. Heres something to read.

 

First-time divorce rate tied to education, race - First-time divorce rate tied to education, race - BGSU

 

What do you know, the least and most educated women have the lowest divorce rate. And considering that most professional working women are educated, this means that dating or marrying them doesnt incur any greater relationship risk.

 

At the end of the day, whats risky is dating a woman incompatible to me.

Edited August 14, 2013 by kaylan

[Leigh 87]

Just my 2 cents.

 

My ex had many friends who had kids in their early to mid 20's. Some has reasonably paid jobs; my natural reaction to them was great, they can still travel if they choose to and have a life for themselves and also afford to look after their children.

 

However, many of his younger friends who had children already will probably never travel in their ENTIRE lifetime now. Can you imagine? Never affording to leave their own country or afford much for themselves at all for that matter, because they will literally be struggling their entire lives just to afford basics?

 

Why the hell would you want to have a family young, at the expense of being financially stable enough to not have to struggle just to survive?

 

With the right person who happens to earn a lot of cash, I would consider kids if he truly wanted them and we had done a lot of travelling until our mid 30's.

 

I think the OP is just saying that it is insane to have kids when you will not be able to provide them with financial security.

 

In fact, it is damn well unfair and STUPID of parents who get knocked up knowing full well they do not earn enough to provide their kids with a stress free life.

 

No kid should have to feel the stresses of not knowing when the next meal is coming from:sick: And any parents who knowingly puts an innocent child in that situation is a truly selfish and stupid person.

[kaylan]

^Do consider the reality that many people never leave their home country. Id like to travel around the globe one day, but its expensive and I have other things that need my money.

 

Id be able to travel around the USA at least. But thats the drawback of Americas location. If I was in Europe I could easily travel around and experience different countries with the same ease us Americans drive state to state. So while I can travel my own country and experience different cultures, its still American culture that Im somewhat familiar with. Oh wells. I cant control where I was born.

 

I do plan to visit Canada sometime during the first half of next year though. I live in a border state, so its not far away. Plus Id be able to drive their with my American drivers license.

I think it's ridiculous of people to assume there is anything wrong about the OP's preferences?

 

I am sure he would let her stay home initially, just after the birth. I think he means long term, he is attracted to a woman that is driven in her career. As he is with his.

 

Some women like to bond with their baby for a few months after the birth, therefore those women are better of knowing the OP'S view, so they can determine that are not compatible.

 

Surely the OP has enough options to not miss out on finding suitable partners.

If my gal wants to do that, Im sure we could work that out and it be no issue.

 

I dont really want a woman whos super career driven and wants to be rich. I just dig a chick whos like me....a gal who enjoys working, and having the means to enjoy life

Edited August 14, 2013 by kaylan