So where did we go wrong with marriage in our generation?

[Clockwork]

Okay here me out. We have turned a once-sacred institution into something no one takes seriously anymore. But the thing is, just a couple generations ago the attitude towards marriage was so much different. Here is my synopsis:

 

Our grandparents' generation more or less stayed together until death. Hey, maybe your grandparents are STILL together. Mine aren't. But neither side divorced, they just died and that's how the marriage ended. The generation I am talking about are the WWII generation more or less and into the 1950s. If you were married in the 1940s for the most part you stayed together "till death do us part." My wife's grandparents have been married 65 years, for example. Yes, it is true that there were some women (especially) who were in toxic relationships couldn't leave that SHOULD have. However, the same thing happens today, there are plenty of either men or women that are in a toxic marriage. But our grandparents generation stuck it out. There are many Golden (50th) anniversaries from that era. They all went through hard times, their marriages went through different eras for the world. Yet for the most part these couples stayed together and their kids were our parents.

 

Our parents' generation (alright at least mine) grew up, almost always had their parents still married and then got hitched themselves in the 1970s. There were still "shotgun" weddings where the bride was pregnant because even up until the 1970s the idea was that it was the "right" thing to do. "Shotgun" weddings happened in the 1940s and '50s too and those couples stayed together. The world was different in the 1970s, there were different roles for women, different jobs, etc. My parents are still together. My wife's aren't. In fact, when I was in school in the 1980s and 1990s it was starting to be more common to see a child of divorce in your class. It happened often. Not everyone's parents stayed together. I don't know the stats from marriages in the 1970s of the couples that stayed together but the bottom line is there are going to be many Golden anniversaries from this generation. Of course there was still lots of divorce and my generation was victim to much of that.

 

Enter my generation. Kids born in the 1980s. We grew up in the 1990s. Many of us felt the affect of divorce. I think our generation is split up into three or four different groups.

Group #1 - people that may live common law but don't want to marry because it is "just a piece of paper", they may even chime out some kids

Group #2 - they'll never marry because it is a 50/50 shot to begin with

Group #3 - they get married, and it doesn't go beyond 5 years

Group #4 - they get married, want to marry and work to stay together and ignore the "grass is greener" theory

 

In my opinion, Group #4 is our grandparents for the most part. They worked things out. But my generation I think has a scarce amount of people in Group #4. Our society entices couples to split. Heck, movies always justify breaking up marriages because you are in love with someone else.

 

All of our generation felt the affect of divorce or had a close friend or family member who did. We all saw it. Some of us just washed our hands with the whole idea and won't bother with it. Others may have a long term girlfriend but have no intentions to put a ring on her finger. There are going to be very few Golden anniversaries for the people who have been married in the last decade. I already have two friends who were in my wedding party that didn't make 5 years of marriage. This is my generation in a nutshell.

 

So here is the question. Where did we go wrong? Our grandparents took their vows seriously and fought through thick and thin to be together (even if you didn't see it, it happened behind closed doors). In two generations we went from marriage being a sacred union where you would fight and sacrifice for each other to practically being an afterthought and now being something that I think it far, far higher than a 50% failure rate. I think it may be closer to 80% from our generation.

[HokeyReligions]

Ill spout an intellectual old adage but I think it is still relevant. Why buy the cow when you get milk for free.

 

Women have changed. A lot. The expectations and perceptions of men for these woman have changed also. There has been a major cultural shift in this country. Much of this is fallout from the civil rights movement of the 1960s.

 

Many of our freedoms are destroying us. We are more segregated racially and more conflicted politically and far less respectful of the two parent family.

[Betterthanthis13]

I think we are asking the wrong question. In my opinion, The right question is:

 

If the world has changed and we no longer fit into the 1950's model of marriage that everyone idealizes, how can we change the model so that it fits our changed world?

 

We can't go back in time. We can make progress.

[Betterthanthis13]

Ill spout an intellectual old adage but I think it is still relevant. Why buy the cow when you get milk for free.

 

Women have changed. A lot. The expectations and perceptions of men for these woman have changed also. There has been a major cultural shift in this country. Much of this is fallout from the civil rights movement of the 1960s.

 

Many of our freedoms are destroying us. We are more segregated racially and more conflicted politically and far less respectful of the two parent family.

 

If you really feel this way, you could protest by giving up the freedom of posting your opinion on the Internet, because the Internet was not invented in the time in which you think people had better morals.

[hoping2heal]

 

So here is the question. Where did we go wrong?

 

In my opinion alot of it has to do with the self-absorbed mindset so many people have these days. It's a "me, me, me" world. People seem to be consuming and disposing of one another like products. What can you do for me? You can make me feel good? Well, then do it. Ok thank you for that, next. That pattern can apply to sex or just relationships, friendships, etc. in general.

 

People don't think about what's good for one another, they think about what's good for themselves. They don't want to endure hard times and/or dry spells. They want to toss that person so they can get the honeymoon phase started anew.

 

People have seemed to stop recognizing other people as human beings and us people have become "things".

[Woggle]

We learned from baby boomers and the me generation that relationships are disposable. I think the damage is done and there is no repairing it. Maybe in a few generations there can be a rebirth but for now marriage is pretty much a joke. If any other institution had the odds that modern marriage has most people would want nothing to do with it. It is a seriously risky and unstable investment in life.

[hoping2heal]

Ill spout an intellectual old adage but I think it is still relevant. Why buy the cow when you get milk for free.

 

Women have changed. A lot. The expectations and perceptions of men for these woman have changed also. There has been a major cultural shift in this country. Much of this is fallout from the civil rights movement of the 1960s.

 

Many of our freedoms are destroying us. We are more segregated racially and more conflicted politically and far less respectful of the two parent family.

 

Women have changed alot. So have men. We've all "changed alot".

[Woggle]

Alot of people here accuse me of being anti-marriage and I am not but I don't believe in half assing it. If you do it then be serious about the commitment and making it work. I am not saying stay in a miserable marriage with no hope of it getting better or where you are being mistreated but people these days see that marriage is not some Disney fantasy and they get mad and want to bail. No mere mortal can live up to the expectations people these days set for each other.

 

My view is that if most people are not built to make a marriage work these days why not just scrap it all together? If we can't live up to what marriage is really about why do it at all? Why not just sleep around with whoever or at least be a serial monogamist if we are not truly serious about having strong and lasting marriages?

 

Either crap or get off the pot.

[sweetjasmine]

Where did we go wrong?

 

I don't think it's a matter of "going wrong." Life is different now than it was in the 1940s.

 

Our grandparents took their vows seriously and fought through thick and thin to be together (even if you didn't see it, it happened behind closed doors). In two generations we went from marriage being a sacred union where you would fight and sacrifice for each other to practically being an afterthought and now being something that I think it far, far higher than a 50% failure rate. I think it may be closer to 80% from our generation.

 

Two generations ago, marriage was pretty much necessary, especially for women, who, for the large part, weren't able to have their own careers and support themselves. Even men who didn't marry were less likely to be taken seriously in their careers than men who did. So they weren't just fighting for the marriage itself -- they were fighting for their own self-interest. If the marriage broke up, both people's living situation and standard of living were put into jeopardy. A marriage dissolving was a much more serious and dangerous proposition than it is now.

 

Think about it from the perspective of women in the 1950s, even though this applied to a lesser extent for men. What would happen to a 1950s housewife who went through a divorce? What would she do? Where would she go? Would she ever be able to remarry? Would she be able to support herself? If she couldn't support herself and couldn't find someone who would marry someone who had divorced, what would she have done?

 

I think it's good for society that people are able to leave bad marriages and suffer lesser consequences than they would have in the 1950s. Marriage itself, where both parties are in it because they want to be, isn't for everyone. Not everyone is cut out for it. And if the situation changes, it's best for people to leave than to hang on for the sake of a vague notion of sacredness of marriage when they're actually miserable on a daily basis.

[carhill]

Most of our grandparents (and my parents, given my age) experienced horrors of life hopefully few of us will ever experience. Many received life lessons at a young age which some of us will never receive. Lessons change and mold a person. In addition, societal, religious and legal constructs encouraged lifelong marriages and families. Mobility and communication was far less available than in even my generation.

 

With the advent of the sexual revolution, reproductive rights, civil rights and the mainstream women's movement, amongst other social/religious/political evolution, people and society changed. The construct of marriage struggled to keep up. People struggled to make sense of all the changes happening in an increasingly fast-paced, connected world. All along, the old call of reproduction remained. How we approached it evolved within the construct of the changes we were/are experiencing. For some, marriage mirrors that of past generations. For others, it has evolved to fill the needs and wants of the now. For still others, it is a thing of the past; irrelevant in their lives today.

 

What's old is new again. Perhaps a trite saying, but maybe, just maybe, marriage can begin anew and become the widely respected and practiced form of relationship it once was, respecting who we are today, and tomorrow. We can do it, one marriage at a time.

[Woggle]

Most of our grandparents (and my parents, given my age) experienced horrors of life hopefully few of us will ever experience. Many received life lessons at a young age which some of us will never receive. Lessons change and mold a person. In addition, societal, religious and legal constructs encouraged lifelong marriages and families. Mobility and communication was far less available than in even my generation.

 

 

What's old is new again. Perhaps a trite saying, but maybe, just maybe, marriage can begin anew and become the widely respected and practiced form of relationship it once was, respecting who we are today, and tomorrow. We can do it, one marriage at a time.

 

I agree with the first part. I remember an older guy saying to me that the biggest mistake our grandparents generation made was trying to make life so easy for the baby boomers and spare them from the horrors they faced. This was a generation that faced a war and a great depression and they came out of it stronger. They didn't want their kids to go through those things but instead they created spoiled brats who rejected everything their parents stood for.

 

I don't see the second part happening anytime soon. Not for a few generations at least.

[Woggle]

Before anybody gets mad at me be aware I am not the one spouting misogynistic stuff in this thread. Though I do believe that a certain kind of feminism has played a part pretty much everybody has some guilt in how things got to the point they are today.

[2sunny]

I decided I didn't have to stay in an abusive M with a man who also cheated. I decided not to buy into the "marriage is forever" mindset - any longer. That was a hellish existence.

 

And lets not forget that modern world has way to much technology now. People hide behind text and computers instead of getting face to face with people they intend to date.

 

Generations ago - no cars - little communication opportunities - made it almost mandatory to date someone close to home base.

[Betterthanthis13]

Ill spout an intellectual old adage but I think it is still relevant. Why buy the cow when you get milk for free.

 

Women have changed. A lot. The expectations and perceptions of men for these woman have changed also. There has been a major cultural shift in this country. Much of this is fallout from the civil rights movement of the 1960s.

 

Many of our freedoms are destroying us. We are more segregated racially and more conflicted politically and far less respectful of the two parent family.

 

Gee is progress where today's women choose as their avatars a picture of a bondage slut?

 

That just seems like immature sexual acting-out to me. Not progress.

 

Now don't get me wrong--I'm very very pleased as a man that many woman today are expressing their inner bondage sluts in an open and obvious manner, I just don't think that equates to progress for women kind in general though.

 

It's supposed to be a roller derby girl but whatever, really it's a pencil drawing- infer from it what you wish.

[Betterthanthis13]

I think I'm going to have to blame women for this one since as everyone knows women have the exclusive right to control what they do with their bodies.

 

Everyone knows that? I did not know that.

 

Wait. Men do not have control over what they do with their bodies?

[Betterthanthis13]

Well said.

 

In the 1950's women would have had to stay in an abusive relationship with no place else to go. Now they can split.

 

Of course they can and do also split when there is no claim of abuse against the man, or never get married to the man in the first place.

 

It's entirely the woman's choice.

 

Only women can choose? what are you saying? Men can't choose to remain unmarried? Men can't choose to leave a relationship? What country do you live in? I don't think we live in the same country. I'm in the U.S.A.

[coffeebean201]

Well said.

 

In the 1950's women would have had to stay in an abusive relationship with no place else to go. Now they can split.

 

Of course they can and do also split when there is no claim of abuse against the man, or never get married to the man in the first place.

 

It's entirely the woman's choice.

 

 

Sounds pretty simplistic in the face of some complex dynamics.

At the end of the day, don't have sex with a man unless you are prepared to raise a child with him.

The more people treat marriage as a status symbol, the less interest I have in it.

[Betterthanthis13]

The difference between now and the 1950's was no birth control pill and no or secret/illegal abortions. It's not divorce that was the issue back then, it was pregnancy, fear of pregnancy, and raising children resulting from pregnancy.

 

That's pretty much all gone now a la Sandra Fluke and company.

 

Women think "you can't control me just because I **** you" in reference to men. In the 1950's people got married to ****. Because if you ****ed without getting married it could lead to an unwanted pregnancy and a child. Nowadays you don't have to get married just to ****.

 

Of course since modern feminism disavows the fundamental biological role of women is to get pregnant, bear children, and raise them to adulthood, there is no reason to have a family structure any longer.

 

Are you aware that men have the choice not to **** women unless they are married?

[Betterthanthis13]

Lay the blame where it belongs--at the feet of the female gender. Women are now in full control of what they do with their bodies. As a group they have chosen to largely disavow the importance of traditional marital and family relationships. Clever and crafty men are just playing along with the sluttification of modern western woman hood. Why? Cow, milk, free, someone said it already.

 

Are you ok? Do you need to talk to someone about all this anger?

[Betterthanthis13]

Excuse me but how is "misogynistic" to point out and accept the feminist proposition that women are in 100% control of what they do with their bodies?

 

If they want to have sex without getting married and then abort the fetuses rather than have children, or simply use birth control, thus eliminating the need to actually make functional families with men playing an important role as the father, then that's the choice of women and they need to accept full responsibility for the resulting destruction of the traditional family.

 

Nobody is in 100% control of what they do with their body. Your heart beats automatically. You can't make it stop. I dare you to try.

 

Walgreens and CVS both sell condoms. Men buy those occasionally. Thus preventing unwanted pregnancies.

 

"Eliminating the need to to actually make functional families with men playing an important role as the father, then that's the choice of women and they need to accept full responsibility for the resulting destruction of the traditional family"

 

Uhhhhhhhh----- WHAT??????????????

 

Can you please put that into a coherent sentence? Thanks

[coffeebean201]

Yes, only a woman can choose if she wishes to become pregnant or terminate her pregnacy. I'm not sure what country you're from but it's the law in the USA. Maybe you come from an Islamic country or something? I don't really know what Sharia law has to say about this but in USA and I believe Western Europe it's up to the woman whether she gets pregnant or not or decides to keep or terminate it.

 

Men can choose to leave a relationship but they are legally obligated to pay child support if there is a child resulting from it. So no not really, they can't fully "leave" the relationship if there is a child since the law will hold them accountable for the baby that the woman chooses to bring to term. Of course it's fully up to the woman whether or not she chooses to use birth control or if she gets pregnant whether or not to abort. The man has no say in those decisions.

 

I don't think you could possibly live in the USA since you don't seem to be aware of any legal developments concerning this stuff over say the past 50 years.

 

I'll say it again, your writings are simplistic for what are quite complex issues.

Someone isn't Islamic just because they disagree with you.

There are very significant issues facing women these days and I don't see these issues being discussed here.

I don't think our generation has gone wrong with marriage. Just because someone else has been married for 60 years doesn't mean our generation has it wrong. Even if we plan to be married more than once.

Hope you have a good night:)

[Betterthanthis13]

Unless you're into roller derby what do wish people to infer from it? You posted it.

 

I am, in fact, on a roller derby team. I don't particularly appreciate you calling me a bondage slut or accusing me of immature sexual acting out

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by NYCCat

Gee is progress where today's women choose as their avatars a picture of a bondage slut?

 

That just seems like immature sexual acting-out to me. Not progress.

 

Now don't get me wrong--I'm very very pleased as a man that many woman today are expressing their inner bondage sluts in an open and obvious manner, I just don't think that equates to progress for women kind in general though.

[Betterthanthis13]

No anger here.

 

Do you need someone to talk to about your transparent and juvenile efforts at emotional manipulation?

 

Apparently you like to write science fiction, you have no basis for any of these claims

 

You see most women, yourself included, are prone to resort to strategies of deception and prevarication when attempting to deal with the male gender.

And yet refuse to take responsibility for their actions which is the problem.

 

Again, no basis for claims. Pleas provide one bit of proof that I have done such a thing. I will wait.

 

You post a deliberately sexually provocative avatar yet claim you do not know why you posted it. Still no answer on that. Obviously it was to get attention. From men. (Assuming of course you're not a lesbian.)

 

False. Please quote where I said I did not know why I posted this avatar. I posted this avatar because I am on a roller derby team, which I have told you twice now. Who cares if I am a lesbian? Maybe I am. I'm not buy now I wish I was just so it would annoy you more.

 

Now you falsely attribute "anger" to me which doesn't exist since you don't like my opinions but have no way to refute them since they are based on undisputable fact.

False. I asked you if you were angry. I did not attribute anything to you. Also, anger does exist. I can't respond to the rest of the words you wrote because they do not constitute a sentence.

Unless and until you can prove your notion that men can get pregnant. I don't think they can, but I'll wait for your proof.

 

I have never in my life claimed that men can get pregnant. I saw a movie once with Arnold Shwartzeneger where he was pregnant but it was fiction. It was funny.

 

What would you like to see happen in the future with men and women, since we can't go back in time? (That's not my fault, by the way. And I would like to know your opinion, since you are not happy about the current state of things)

[Betterthanthis13]

Yes, only a woman can choose if she wishes to become pregnant or terminate her pregnacy. I'm not sure what country you're from but it's the law in the USA. Maybe you come from an Islamic country or something? I don't really know what Sharia law has to say about this but in USA and I believe Western Europe it's up to the woman whether she gets pregnant or not or decides to keep or terminate it.

 

Men can choose to leave a relationship but they are legally obligated to pay child support if there is a child resulting from it. So no not really, they can't fully "leave" the relationship if there is a child since the law will hold them accountable for the baby that the woman chooses to bring to term. Of course it's fully up to the woman whether or not she chooses to use birth control or if she gets pregnant whether or not to abort. The man has no say in those decisions.

 

I don't think you could possibly live in the USA since you don't seem to be aware of any legal developments concerning this stuff over say the past 50 years.

 

Abortion rights. Now you are being clear. Yes I am familiar that women can choose to terminate pregnancies once they are in their bodies. I am aso aware that men can choose to preemtively terminate pregnancies by not inserting their ****** into women's ****** and ejac******* without a cond**. Are you aware of that?

[Betterthanthis13]

LOL yeah right.

 

 

 

Well that's obviously what you desired but since I didn't call you either of those things it's clear that your interest in being truthful is not very strong is it. Also please keep your fantasies to yourself.

 

obvious to who? Anyone else want to chime in here? I think you are the one having the fantasies about a pencil drawing of a girl showing absolutely no cleavage wearing shorts and roller skates and knee pads for a sport, with a self affirming, ironic "badass" written on the (haha). I thought it was cute. Internet forums are ananamous and no, I really didn't want any of my real roller derby team pics on here. I play tennis too. In a skirt. I can't imagine what you would say if I had a pencil drawing of a tennis girl as an avatar. Good grief.

 

Then you go on to immediately contradict yourself by saying you are cool with inner bondage sluts etc.

 

Where?????????????

 

Well the roller derby girl you chose to represent yourself (since you do claim to be a roller derby girl, she represents you) is in a sexually submissive posture, those aren't really functional roller derby clothes she's wearing, she's wearing a role playing outfit, just like if you had posted a picture of a chick in a french maid's outfit, do you seriously expect anyone to believe that means you are a french maid?

 

I am not a French maid. I can speak French. I really don't know why you care about this stuff. You have a lot of energy. You would be really good at working on a solution to all the things you don't like instead of complaining about them if you would be a little more open minded

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by NYCCat

Gee is progress where today's women choose as their avatars a picture of a bondage slut?

 

That just seems like immature sexual acting-out to me. Not progress.

 

Now don't get me wrong--I'm very very pleased as a man that many woman today are expressing their inner bondage sluts in an open and obvious manner, I just don't think that equates to progress for women kind in general though.

 

Need 10 char outside quote