Does she just want me to pursue her or does she really not love me?

[CanItWork]

My wife and I have been married for over 12 years and now have 3 kids. We got married at 18 and were each other's first and only love. Our marriage has largely been a disaster and I feel that I am mostly to blame for this. I have been immature, selfish and have not treated her right. We both also have alot of excess religious baggage which has been hard to get through.

 

We separated at the beginning of this year but I have recently moved back in. She says she does not love me now and isn't sure that she ever has. For my part, I do feel that I love her and want to work things out. I have done ALOT of growing up during the past 18 months and have resolved most of my issues but still have more work to do.

 

I do realize that I want to be in a relationship with some I love and who loves me. We never felt like we chose each other (neither of us ever dated or had a relationship with anyone else) but I feel that I would choose her now. She is willing to stay married in order to have a family for the kids and is "open" to loving me at some point but she isn't willing to stay just for us.

 

I want to be fair - I know that I have not been a good husband and want to win her back - but at the same time I wonder if I can win back someone who doesn't love me. It's one of those chicken-egg things... does she not love me because of how I've treated her? Or has she never loved me and never will? I don't want to waste time trying to fix something that isn't fixable. But I know that women can sometimes be aloof and really want to be pursued and I wonder if she is doing that.

 

She has told me that she loves our kids so much that she would be willing to spend the next 15 years in a quasi-marriage in order to not hurt them by divorce - she could love me "in a way" and "respect me" - but I still wouldn't be the one she would choose. I suspect that after the kids are raised she would leave me and go try to find her true love.

 

I don't want to be someone's second or third choice. Life's too short for that. But at the same time, I want to give our relationship time to heal and maybe she will come to believe that she does really love me. Is there anyone out there that has survived a difficult time in ther marriage and did you ever wonder whether you loved your spouse? Or did you always know deep down that if things improved you would take them back and still want to be with them? Is she being hard-to-get or do you think she really doesn't love me anymore? Can you really kill love or does a seed of it always exist deep down?

 

Any input is appreciated.

[Ladyjane14]

Can you really kill love or does a seed of it always exist deep down?

 

I think maybe it does. You could have knocked me over with a feather six months ago, when I realized that I still truly loved my husband.

[Ladyjane14]

What actions are you and your wife taking to repair the relationship? Are you going to counseling together? Reading books? Doing any homework?

 

I do think it's possible for love to be buried under past resentments and old conflicts. Sometimes, there's not alot of love left though. I don't want to blow alot of sunshine up your skirt and tell you that she still must love you, but the possibility exists that she herself may not know if she does or not.

 

You've already invested 12 years, and have 2 children to consider. I don't think either of you have anything to lose be an "all out" try.

 

Consider taking divorce off the table for one year, kind of like 'hand-fasting', where at the end of the year either person can decide to end it amicably. And working on the relationship together by resolving resentments ONE AT A TIME. (Never discuss more that one issue at a time, it leads to arguement.)

 

The idea is to be ACTIVE in the relationship. And to DO as much as you can. If at the end of a year's time, it's still a NO GO then neither one of you have anything to feel bad about.

[CanItWork]

I guess I feel I'm doing everything that I know to do at the moment - this is constantly on my mind and in my heart. And we've been fighting to stay together for years now - it's not like this is a new problem and we're just thinking about divorce now. The "D" word has been on the table for 4 or 5 years now. And I have been particularly aggressive in trying to change things for the last 18 months.

 

But I guess I feel hurt because all I really want is for her to love me - I still love her and I've always known I have feelings for her... even when they were buried under bitterness and anger. My real motivation for most of my effort is to get her to love me again. She tells me that if I am someone she could respect that she *might* love me at some point. But I don't want to feel I have to earn her LOVE (respect and trust, I understand) - I guess if I can earn it that means I can lose it, which is just too scary. I feel that I would love her no matter what - even if she was a total psycho and stole my money and cheated on me... I might not trust her, but I would still love her. I guess I don't understand why she doesn't feel the same way. I mean, she doesn't owe that to me, but she acts like I'm nuts if I ever bring it up... it's like "of course I don't love you - how could you expect anything else?"

 

Maybe the heart of my question is "what is love?" - is it something that is given freely or is it something that is earned? Is it an emotion or is it a choice - that you decide "yep, this is the person I want to give my heart to". I would say that trust and respect and things that are earned, but I guess I always felt that love is something that is more permanent. But I just don't know.

 

God, all of this is so heavy and feels so abstract... I wish we lived in the old days where I could consult with a village elder or someone who was much wiser and experienced in these things.

[CanItWork]

Also, we have read our share of books over the years but aren't reading anything now. It's almost as if she doesn't care about our relationship beyond us being able to communicate and raise the kids. Maybe we could be friends and go to the movies once in a while too... But she's made it pretty clear that she doesn't want to have a love relationship with me at this point - she wants to solve some of our communication problems and then see what happens.

 

And she isn't willing to do counseling either... she says she is afraid that I will use the counselor's advice as ammo against her. She is very much a free-spirit and doesn't want to be controlled - part of that is our religious background (we were in a pseudo-cult and that screwed both of us up pretty bad) and part of it is my problem... I have been controlling as well. But hell, I'm willing to admit that and even talk about it to a counselor. My attitude is that if she feels I'm using the counselor's advice against her, she should tell the counselor and we can talk about it openly.

[SoleMate]

I feel that I would love her no matter what - even if she was a total psycho and stole my money and cheated on me... I might not trust her, but I would still love her. I guess I don't understand why she doesn't feel the same way. I mean, she doesn't owe that to me, but she acts like I'm nuts if I ever bring it up... it's like "of course I don't love you - how could you expect anything else?"

Couple of points for you:

 

1) Your experience of feeling love, and what brings you to love someone, and what behavior you permit yourself when you love someone, are all YOUR personal idiosyncracies. It seems you are wanting your wife to have the same reactions and attitudes as you. She doesn't, so stop expecting it. Many men and many women would fall into the same thoughts that each of you has, BTW. Typically, a man says, "I know I love her deep down, so she should feel my love." (through telepathy I guess). A woman says, "I love him, so I will show him my love with kisses, attention, food, sex, etc." Then later, "If he loved me, wouldn't he be showing his love to me in the way I want?"

 

2) Love may or may not be a transcendental, metaphysical state as you imply. But for us human beings, it's easiest to focus on the ACTIONS that enhance positive feelings. Create enough positive feelings, and you will have love automatically. Check out <URL removed> for a practical explanation of this idea, and advice on how to create those feelings.

 

To summarize: Love is a feeling. To create and nurture love between two people, you need more than feelings, you need loving actions.