Deep in the Friendzone

[NailBiter]

Hello,

 

I'm not sure what kind of advice I'm looking for here. I'm so deep in the friend zone at this point that there is nothing that can be done except to limit contact and hope that my love and invading alien thoughts about her go away. How deep is the friendzone am I do you ask? Let me tell you, gentle reader. I spent yesterday with a girl who was texting another guy in front of me while we were drunk on her couch in an empty house watching a movie. A girl who straight up told me to my face that she thinks of me as a girl. A girl who wants to see 'The Notebook' with me in a park so we can have "girls night". Yes, it's that bad. Now you may be thinking, "who is this girl and how the hell did this guy end up in such a pathetic predicament?" I'm really not a push over. It didn't start out like this. As a matter of fact I believe I was the first one to put up the friendzone wall. Allow me to start from the beginning. Feel free to laugh at me during the particularity pathetic beta male forever alone parts.

 

I met this girl at work 4 months ago. We got to talking whenever we saw each other around the office and we got along great. I loved her sense of humour and talking to her became the highlight of my work days. This is high praise from me, I'm not the type of guy to throw around cheap compliments. It's rare for me to find a girl that can keep up with my wit. It also helped that she is good looking and sweet as can be. I hadn't been this intrigued by a girl since I broke up with my ex 3 years ago. Alas our mutual co worker mentioned that she had a bf so I kept a friendly distance.

 

We both joined the company softball when spring came around and it gave us an excuse to hang outside of work for the first time. Over the next month we had half a dozen quasi dates. Looking back there were two or three wide open shots in the beginning for me to make a move that I completely missed. While walking her home on our first night out she mentioned that her "boyfriend was actually made up so guys at work would stop asking (her) out". She was underhanding the ball to me and all I had to do was swing the bat. I'm a very on/off type of guy and there were two red flags that prevented me from taking what was right in front of me.

 

1. Situation: If she didn't reciprocate my move then I would have to deal with the awkwardness at work. I liked my job and didn't want to risk making my job any more stressful than it had to be. To be honest this is a pretty weak excuse in my personal situation but it's still something I considered.

 

2. Timing: If she did reciprocate ...She didn't know if she would even be in the country past October due to work visa renewal issues. We talked about this on our 1st time out and it was a major red flag for me. I've been in a long distance relationship before and I can't do it again. AND I don't want to be in a relationship with a countdown timer. Now it turns out her visa is expiring for sure and it will take up to a year to get a new one. If she even comes back at all.

 

At that point I had no real romantic feelings for her and thought I could keep her compartmentalized in MY friendzone. So I didn't make a move. I remember the look on her face when I dropped her off from our first "date". Her face said "make a move, why arent you making a move? ok i guess an awkward hug will do :(". I walked away while telling myself that the timing and situation wasn't what I wanted, even though the girl was a diamond in the rough. I planned on taking it slow with her and making a move if she was going to stay in the country. Over the next few quasi dates I could feel that my chance to make a move was slipping away. I let it happen without a fight.

 

We hung out a lot over the ensuing months. Our friendship grew. She slowly became one of my best friends even though I refused to admit it. We had a lot of intimate conversations about our families, past relationships, work, depression, anxieties, childhood, loneliness, etc etc. I could tell I was fully in the friendzone even though people kept asking me if we were dating since we gave off that type of vibe. The friendzone had been mutually applied, albeit I was still on the fence pending on her visa situation. I knew I had some feelings for her but they were so minor that I just chalked them up to loneliness. Until last month my feelings started to grow stronger. I didn't realize I had them until one Friday night I asked her to go out and she said she couldn't because she had a date. When she told me I felt a pang of jealously in my chest that is reserved only for someone you love. She looked really embarrassed (reddest face I've ever seen her have) when she told me and said "I feel really bad because I've never said no to you before". I played it cool, swallowed my disappointment with a smile, wished her good luck, and turned my back on her for a few days.

 

The next week she sweet talks me into taking her out on a picnic I'd promised to take her on prior to her dating this new guy. I'm a man of my word and I thought I could still handle the friendzone so I went along with it. Big mistake. We had a great night from an outsiders perspective but on the inside I wasn't happy about it at all. It didn't help that we happened to go on this picnic in the same area my ex used to live. Between the friendzone and the memories of my ex being mixed up in my head I was being tortured by my own thoughts. I drank myself into an oblivion of whiskey when I got home to deal with my torment. I hadn't felt a despair like that in years. When she saw me at work she asked what was wrong. I blamed a hangover. She was persistent, saying that I can "tell her anything that is bothering me and that she's always there for me if I need someone to talk to about relationship problems, family problems, etc". I was a wreck, barely holding it together, much less able to explain myself to her so I told her to leave it alone for a while because I wasn't in the mood to reveal my embarrassing/pathetic reason for drinking a bottle of whiskey until 2am on a work night.

 

I distanced myself from her at that point. One day I walked past her desk and she asked me if we were still friends. I didn't have the heart to hurt her so I said yes and I had been ignoring her because I have to spread the love around a little bit more. The next time we hung out a week later she asked what the pathetic reason was and I blamed the ex girlfriend memories from the picnic. She stopped coming to the weekly softball games with me, I stopped messaging her first for anything, only ever responding in a friendly manner like I would with anyone else. I put the ball fully in her court instead of ending the game.

 

A few more notable events took place in the last 3 weeks:

 

1. She asked to meet more of my friends since hers suck so I invited her to a beer festival that I was going to with a few friends. She agreed and claimed to be excited to get the chance to meet some good people. Sunday morning rolls around and I wake up to a text asking me if she can bring the guy she is kinda not really dating. I told her if she wanted to go have a date she could just ditch me. She strongly defended that it wasn't anything like that and it wouldn't be awkward at all. Did I mention that she met this guy on our softball team? It's kinda funny since we were getting a drive home after a game one night and I made the two of them squish together in the back seat so I could ride shotgun. Looking back from a comedic stand point it's ****ing hilarious. He's a good guy so I can't be mad. Anyway, being the idiot I am, I told her sure I'll see you two there. She calls me when I get there and I meet up with the two of them and introduce them to my friends. She was wrong, it was awkward. My friend asked me "who is that guy? her brother? ....what?" I never got any real alone time with her and the two of them ditched me a few times to walk around and get food/drinks. Eventually I told them I wasn't having a good time and left by myself. The outing was a failure.

 

2. A couple weeks ago she invited me out on a Friday night. It turned into a drinks-dinner-movie night. She explained her thought process was "my friends are doing stupid **** tonight so i thought 'who can i go out with and not have to put an effort in with'". I'm not sure if I should have been insulted or complimented by that. Anyway, we ended up getting pretty drunk and leaning up against each other on a nice couch in a fancy pub while exchanging laughs and playing word association games. In the movie we got comfortable again and I stopped myself from kissing her when we were laughing our asses off at something nobody else in the theater had caught. All I could think of was that if the timing was different we could maybe have something special. Overall I had a great time. The outing was a success. A lot of it had to do with the fact that she didn't have a working phone that night. Which leads into my final and most recent event...

 

3. Yesterday. I had the memories of phone free Friday night fresh in my memory so I invited her to a baseball game with me and 2 of my closest friends. The game was good, we all had a great time, we had drinks and laughs afterwards. Evening comes and our group breaks up. I decide to go back to her place to drink and watch a movie instead having a poker night. As we're walking back to her place the phone usage really starts exploding. I give her her privacy and only throw a few playful shots at her. I suspect softball date guy is messaging the **** out of her due to insecurity. I sneak one single quick glance at her phone as we're walking and see his name at the top of the list. Confirmed. She doesn't say anything, I don't ask. We get back to her place and have a few drinks. I make conversation, asked her if she had any plans for the rest of the month, if she had anything to look forward to. She says "I'm going to see 'The Notebook' with you in 2 weeks!" Now I had agreed to this before the picnic incident, before she started "dating" that guy. I explained how that I don't think going to see the god damn notebook with her is pretty horrible for my own well being. After trying to guilt trip me in to agreeing to go with her she finally gives up and says "that's ok, i have plenty of other lonely people i can go with". I should mention it felt like she was giving her phone 50% of her earthly attention for the past 30 minutes. The rest of the night was status quo. I went home, dealt with some drunken insomnia until 3am, woke up at 8am thinking about her and decided to come here and write out this long ass rant.

 

Now I don't know where to go from here. Everytime I try to cut her out of my life she sneaks back in. I figure since I'm already balls deep in the friendzone I might as well play it out on my terms for the next couple weeks until school starts and we won't be working together anymore. Once I get can go more than 2-3 days without having to see her face it should be easier to freeze her out and get her put back in to MY friendzone. Then she'll be leaving the country in a couple months and the problem will have solved itself.

 

Wow, that was a lot of typing for a Sunday morning. Feels good to get it out though. Thanks for reading (if anyone made it that far!)

[PlumPrincess]

She's trying to make you jealous and you're such dolt to not notice. Since you put her in the friendzone, she didn't know what to do except trying to make you jealous with her date and provoking the man inside you by inviting you to her "girls' night."

 

Ask her out on a proper date already. And do it in a manly way, like next time she talks about the guy, say, "Screw that guy. He's a loser. I made a mistake when I thought we should just be friends. I want more."

[CrystalCastles]

The thing that catches my attention the most is the "kind of not really dating" part. If she didn't have feelings for you, she'd say "the guy I'm dating". There's no "kind of dating" unless she's trying to make you jealous, or hoping that you'd worry that soon she's going to be ACTUALLY dating this guy and maybe you'd hurry up already and ask her out.

 

Holy crap dude. She's not going to be available forever. She isn't going to be there forever. You might as well take that chance, tell yourself "YOLO" or whatever and go for it. She's probably really frustrated that you're doing absolutely NOTHING.

 

Just. Ask. Her. Out. Stop trying to find reasons as to why you haven't done it already.

[NailBiter]

Really? I was expecting to be told to move on. Haha... Feels like it's too late to make a move.

[carhill]

While I might agree that asking her out on an official date could bring a definitive result, my larger concern might be why you're expending so much energy and thought and emotion on someone who's leaving in a couple of months. IMO, if you're going to go with this, enjoy the now and end the over-thinking (in your words, this long-ass rant) and worrying about the outcome down the road, or look for someone who has not announced they're leaving. Good luck.

[NailBiter]

My reason for writing that whole rant was to hopefully get it out of my system. I wake up thinking about her a lot lately, i have no control over my thoughts for her at times. If I had full control over my emotions I would have said YOLO and made a move a long time ago. This girl is special though and I didn't want to get attached to someone that has a countdown timer above their head.

[Revolver]

This is all your fault for not moving on Nd wasting time with girls who don't "like you that way"

[PlumPrincess]

My reason for writing that whole rant was to hopefully get it out of my system. I wake up thinking about her a lot lately, i have no control over my thoughts for her at times. If I had full control over my emotions I would have said YOLO and made a move a long time ago. This girl is special though and I didn't want to get attached to someone that has a countdown timer above their head.

I'd ask her out, just so you get experience and get better with women. If you don't do anything, you won't improve.

[Lansing]

I am tempted to go see The Notebook now just to see if I can spot you two in the crowd.

 

Basically, you should get more options. Meet new girls and you won't worry so much about this one girl. Use her to meet her friends, meet new people. I don't recommend dating someone at your work. Especially with the uncertainty if she is going to be around still or not after 2 months. However, if she wasn't at your work I would recommend to make a move.

[MrCastle]

I don't know what some of you guys are seeing that I'm not.

 

Did you not read she calls him a girl? Invites him to girls night? Texts other men in front of him? Do you people honestly see this being turned around? Why are you giving him false hopes? He doesn't have a 0% chance, but it's as close as you can get to a 0.

 

OP do yourself a favor and please move on. Be a man. This girl isn't trying to make you jealous. She doesn't respect you as a man. She "sneaks back in" when she wants an ego boost that you continue to give her. Even if there was some sort of chance for this to work, the amount of effort you would have to make on something that is not even a guarantee is pointless.

 

When women like you romantically, you know it. You should not have to go around proving to others that you're dating material. Either they see you in a sexual frame or they don't, and this girl doesn't.

 

I would cut all ties with her immediately and never let this happen to you again.

 

And don't ever "friendzone" a chick. Our friendzones and theirs are different. We may see it as a place holder until we're ready to sleep with them but they don't see it that way. Either you take the opportunity to hook up with them when given the chance, or you don't.

Edited August 12, 2013 by MrCastle

[PlumPrincess]

I don't know what some of you guys are seeing that I'm not.

 

Did you not read she calls him a girl? Invites him to girls night? Texts other men in front of him? Do you people honestly see this being turned around? Why are you giving him false hopes? He doesn't have a 0% chance, but it's as close as you can get to a 0.

 

OP do yourself a favor and please move on. Be a man. This girl isn't trying to make you jealous. She doesn't respect you as a man. She "sneaks back in" when she wants an ego boost that you continue to give her. Even if there was some sort of chance for this to work, the amount of effort you would have to make on something that is not even a guarantee is pointless.

 

When women like you romantically, you know it. You should not have to go around proving to others that you're dating material. Either they see you in a sexual frame or they don't, and this girl doesn't.

 

I would cut all ties with her immediately and never let this happen to you again.

 

And don't ever "friendzone" a chick. Our friendzones and theirs are different. We may see it as a place holder until we're ready to sleep with them but they don't see it that way. Either you take the opportunity to hook up with them when given the chance, or you don't.

You're wrong. Women can also do weird stuff. And my own experience is that I do sometimes think guys are a bit hysterical and move on way too quick.

[somedude81]

I spent yesterday with a girl who was texting another guy in front of me while we were drunk on her couch in an empty house watching a movie.

Did you try to kiss her?

 

If not, then why not?

 

Frankly, your reason for not trying to kiss her matters not. That is why you're in the friendzone.

[MrCastle]

You're wrong. Women can also do weird stuff. And my own experience is that I do sometimes think guys are a bit hysterical and move on way too quick.

 

By "weird stuff" do you mean inviting a male "friend" over her house to watch The Notebook while she's dating a different man? Or show up to events with this man in front of this male "friend"? Yeah that is weird. It also shows pretty much zero romantic interest in this guy. She said she is "kind of dating" this guy because she doesn't wanna crush OP.

 

She is trying to balance dating a man she's interested in, while not hurting her male friend's feelings who she knows likes her more than friends.

 

And you're insinuating that if he grows a pair and moves on that he would be "moving on too quickly?"

 

Instead of spending sleepless nights wallowing, he could be dating (and sleeping with) women who don't want to stay at home and watch The Notebook with him.

[PlumPrincess]

By "weird stuff" do you mean inviting a male "friend" over her house to watch The Notebook while she's dating a different man? Or show up to events with this man in front of this male "friend"? Yeah that is weird. It also shows pretty much zero romantic interest in this guy. She said she is "kind of dating" this guy because she doesn't wanna crush OP.

 

She is trying to balance dating a man she's interested in, while not hurting her male friend's feelings who she knows likes her more than friends.

 

And you're insinuating that if he grows a pair and moves on that he would be "moving on too quickly?"

 

Instead of spending sleepless nights wallowing, he could be dating (and sleeping with) women who don't want to stay at home and watch The Notebook with him.

He doesn't sound like the kind of guy who ends helplessly and unwillingly in a girl's friendzone. He should make his move and be done with it. If it works - great. And if it doesn, he gained some experience.

[Lansing]

For the record, the movie is in a park as the OP said (i.e. a public event, not at her house).

 

Anyway, one of my friends told me she used to tell her ex (before they dated) that he was like a female friend (they had like 2 hour conversations on the phone all the time). They ended up dating/etc and in the end he dumped her... So, it is possible it is a sh*t test to see how it would react but regardless because of the work situation I don't think it is worth the effort either and he is better off just meeting new people.

[PlumPrincess]

Just do it and regret it when it doesn't work out. If you don't do it, you will always wonder what would would have happened.

[Simon Phoenix]

You have two options.

 

1) Just cut your losses and bail. That's probably the best way to go, because I agree with Castle -- I'm not seeing much in the way of interest on her part. It doesn't really even seem like there's much physical flirtation on her part and the "I want to go see the Notebook with you" and texting other dudes in front of you are huge, huge red flags of non-interest. This girl isn't trying to make you jealous -- she doesn't seem to care. I've had girls flirt with other guys in front of me and then be all over me later as long as I don't act like a beta weakling in front of them. This doesn't seem to be happening.

 

However, if you really need peace of mind and closure (because that's what you'll get), you can 2) just make a move. Not a love letter or a grand declaration, but get a bit frisky and go for it. It won't work, but at least you'll know for sure. And since she's leaving your company soon anyway, the work fallout will be minimal. Sometimes you have to nuke the bridge to the friendzone.

[Simon Phoenix]

He doesn't sound like the kind of guy who ends helplessly and unwillingly in a girl's friendzone. He should make his move and be done with it. If it works - great. And if it doesn, he gained some experience.

 

He might not be usually, but he did in this instance.

[PlumPrincess]

I've had girls flirt with other guys in front of me and then be all over me later as long as I don't act like a beta weakling in front of them. This doesn't seem to be happening.

I did tell him to man up. But if he is not going to do something soon, then I would also say that he is in the friendzone. Women don't like indecisive guys who hang out in internet forums and asking one stranger after another what they should do.

[Simon Phoenix]

I did tell him to man up. But if he is not going to do something soon, then I would also say that he is in the friendzone. Women don't like indecisive guys who hang out in internet forums and asking one stranger after another what they should do.

 

I think he missed his window already, as it sounds like this has been going on for months at this point. But I tend to agree he needs to do something, if just so he doesn't say "What if?" in the future. Since she's leaving his office, there won't be much fallout when he fails.

[PlumPrincess]

I think he missed his window already, as it sounds like this has been going on for months at this point. But I tend to agree he needs to do something, if just so he doesn't say "What if?" in the future. Since she's leaving his office, there won't be much fallout when he fails.

If you like someone, it can go on for months... And if the dolt just doesn't get it, you try to provoke him and stir his masculine instincts.

[Simon Phoenix]

If you like someone, it can go on for months... And if the dolt just doesn't get it, you try to provoke him and stir his masculine instincts.

 

Meh, I mean, the OP can shed more light, but it doesn't even sound like there's much flirting coming from her end, at least not now. But usually the stirring of the masculine instincts, at least from my experience, involves dressing nicely and flirting and being open about sexual conversation and topics, not treating him as a "girlfriend".

 

Have never seen a guy get treated like one of the girls and move out of that, at least not in the short term. After a while, talking years, of legitimate friendship (not a friendzone, but a real friendship) it can happen, but I haven't seen it work in the OP's situation. And I've been exactly where he is.

[joystickd]

By "weird stuff" do you mean inviting a male "friend" over her house to watch The Notebook while she's dating a different man? Or show up to events with this man in front of this male "friend"? Yeah that is weird. It also shows pretty much zero romantic interest in this guy. She said she is "kind of dating" this guy because she doesn't wanna crush OP.

 

She is trying to balance dating a man she's interested in, while not hurting her male friend's feelings who she knows likes her more than friends.

 

And you're insinuating that if he grows a pair and moves on that he would be "moving on too quickly?"

 

Instead of spending sleepless nights wallowing, he could be dating (and sleeping with) women who don't want to stay at home and watch The Notebook with him.

I still don't get why women think men should feel honored doing something you are describing. This is why I am so hard on women that encourage the friendzone and see it as a good thing and I bust the guys balls that go along with it.

[Simon Phoenix]

OP, I went through a similar situation several years ago. One of my female coworkers started hanging out with a group of us (two other guys and a girl) pretty regularly. One of the guys and the girl started dating and the other guy was pretty asexual, so her and I basically paired off and started getting chummy. She was flirty with me (not over the top, but noticeable), but since she was a coworker, I was hesitant and while I'd flirt back a bit, I didn't make a move.

 

Of course, several weeks of this got me thinking and we would start hanging out, at least for a little while before meeting up with the other three, one-on-one (grabbing a movie or a bite to eat before meeting the group for drinks). We'd talk about all sorts of stuff, she'd open up to me about things, even showed me some naked pictures of herself (she modeled for one of her artist friends). The group of us then took a weekend trip out of town, which I thought was going to be my invitation to seal the deal, so to speak. It didn't turn into that, as after flirting with me, she got drunk and separated from the group and found some random guy to make out and go home with at the club we were at.

 

I was obviously pissed and spent the ride home in a sullen funk. But after a few days I rationalized that she was drunk and probably trying to make me jealous (facepalm) and I got sucked back in despite everyone else saying that it was a waste of my time. Over the next few go out, we'd flirt (she'd run my hands up her legs while dancing, crap like that), but she'd pull away before I made my move. After some time, the flirting started getting less and less and she started talking to and flirting with guys in front of me. At this point I was hooked though and would basically come meet her wherever and whenever she wanted, blowing off my other two guy friends for this chick. Of course, when I'd go to see her I realized that the flirting, much less any interest, was dying and it was driving me nuts.

 

Finally, I just invited her to lunch and let it all out. I told her that I liked her and that I wanted to be more than friends (I knew it wasn't going to happen, but I just had to get it out at that point). To her credit, she told me with no wiggle room how it was. I told her not to flirt with me if she wasn't going to follow through with it, which she was disappointed in because I was "fun to flirt with". But she also told me that she probably would have slept with me had I made a move a couple months earlier, even though she really didn't see me as a long-term dating option.

 

I present this story to give you an idea of where you are at and present a cautionary tale. Basically, don't think, just throw. If you get an opening, go for it.

[PlumPrincess]

Finally, I just invited her to lunch and let it all out. I told her that I liked her and that I wanted to be more than friends (I knew it wasn't going to happen, but I just had to get it out at that point). To her credit, she told me with no wiggle room how it was. I told her not to flirt with me if she wasn't going to follow through with it, which she was disappointed in because I was "fun to flirt with". But she also told me that she probably would have slept with me had I made a move a couple months earlier, even though she really didn't see me as a long-term dating option.

You should have acted instead of discussing your feelings with her. It would have been better if you had told her that you wanted her, grabbed her and kissed her on the dance floor. Her level of interest had dropped, but very often a change of behavior is enough to re-kindle the previous interest. The problem is, when you start drilling for answers and explanations.

 

A guy I found interesting asked me a while ago why I wanted to meet him. I'm not the kind of person who likes to make confessions so early on. I prefer that we have a good time together. I told him that I was bored and that's why I wanted to meet him.