Is falling in love a choice?

[thefooloftheyear]

When someone finds out what real love is, drop me a pm and let me know..

 

The only real love I know is that which I have for my daughter and my immediate family...The rest, I am not sure I know..(shrug)...

 

TFY

[Pierre]

When someone finds out what real love is, drop me a pm and let me know..

 

The only real love I know is that which I have for my daughter and my immediate family...The rest, I am not sure I know..(shrug)...

 

TFY

 

The love for your daughter and family is full of commitment. That is why is real love.

 

Being horny and full of romantic enchantment as well as addicted to an AP is not true love unless there is commitment.

[2sure]

When someone finds out what real love is, drop me a pm and let me know..

 

The only real love I know is that which I have for my daughter and my immediate family...The rest, I am not sure I know..(shrug)...

 

TFY

 

Ditto. If you get that PM, copy me!

[gregmurphyblue]

I learned from my marriage that what we might think is falling in love might not really be love.

 

She wanted to take me into a marriage, she knew how to get me to fall for her, or what I thought it was love.

[Owl]

Certainly acting on that emotion IS a choice, but is having the emotion a choice? If a married person falls for someone at work but never acts on it, did he/she make a choice to allow those feelings in the first place? And if a single person falls for a charismatic married colleague, did he/she make a "choice" to have those feelings? Are feelings wrong, or just actions?

 

I blame married people (and I'm married) for falling for other people when their hearts are supposedly Unavailable. I blame them far more than I blame single people because their hearts are not already taken; their hearts are open wide, so the love dart may hit the wrong target.

 

Here's my thought...without having read any of the responses throughout this thread.

 

Falling in love is ALWAYS, ALWAYS, ALWAYS a choice.

 

I do not believe in love at first sight. I believe in attraction at first sight, or lust at first sight. But not love at first sight.

 

When you first meet someone, you can be instantly and strongly attracted to them. That is not love. That's attraction. It means you want to get to know them, to spend time around them, to learn more about them.

 

DOING that...spending the time with them, learning more about them, feeding that attraction...is a conscious, intentional act. It's a choice. It's a decision to explore and possibly expand that attraction into something more.

 

And when you feed that attraction...it can grow into love.

 

Here's the thing. I've been married over 25 years now. I've worked with many healthy, attractive women throughout that time. I have, from time to time, found myself attracted to them.

 

I pay attention to when I feel that happening.

 

When I recognize that...I then have a choice.

 

My choice is always to prevent myself from feeding that attraction. I spend less time around them if possible. I don't allow any kind of non-work related conversation. NO FLIRTING. NO discussions of anything on any kind of personal level whatsoever. Nothing at all ever, but shop talk.

 

I don't feed the attraction. It never gets the chance to grow into anything more.

 

And that too is a conscious choice, a deliberate decision on my part.

 

I can be attracted to someone I don't know. I can lust after someone I don't know. But I can't possibly fall in love with someone I don't know. As long as I prevent interactions that can lead to that attraction expanding into more...which is a choice...it can never lead to love.

 

Simple. Even easy.

 

It starts with understanding how relationships work, what good boundaries are, and knowing yourself and your own personal limits.

[ladydesigner]

 

Yep absolutely! As soon as I went NC with my xAP I made the choice to focus on the M. My feelings have come back for my WH and still are there after his last A. I do believe love is a choice.

[JourneyLady]

By the way...I COMPLETELY agree with your assessment of the allocation of "blame". I know it is an unpopular opinion on this site...but shouldn't happily married people have their hearts filled for the one to whom they are committed?

 

I agree with you. Sometimes it's not that the heart isn't filled, but that the person it is filled with is emotionally unavailable for some reason. Sometimes a lack of attention builds up poor self-esteem which then cries out to be filled somehow. There's always people willing to step in and build up another person's self-esteem with attention, if you're halfway attractive. Even if they don't want you long term and sometimes, they do.

[thecharade]

So, then it IS love or it is NOT love? There's only one type and you choose to feel it or choose not to? Hmmm.

[Cocochai]

Having an attraction and being in love aren't the same.

 

You can't control being attracted to someone and fancying them, esp if you're around them often.

 

Being in love is different, however, as it requires a deeper investment and spending time with someone and developing that emotional and romantic feeling. It's a lot more conscious or at least is a result of deliberate actions. You can't just be in love out of nowhere. Even in dating, most people know they like someone or are attracted to them the first few dates, but aren't in love until they have spent more time investing in this person. So to get to the point of being in love with someone other than your spouse means you've crossed so many boundaries already and are already in an EA and are emotionally investing more than appropriate with someone else....as you don't go to work and just fall in love with a coworker by instant magic or based on the day to day work contact. You can be attracted to them yes, but to be all the way in love means you've been interacting in an inappropriate way for a while.

 

Very true! I also think people mix lust with love as well. In all honesty, There has to be some "Love" missing for the M person to just think it's okay to cheat on their spouse. You may have love or have love for that person but I don't think your truly in love.

 

I don't think I'd be able to put myself in a situation where I'd have intimacy with someone else when I'm truly happy and in love with my spouse. I don't know... My xMM said Men and Woman are wired differently and even he couldn't really answer why he cheats on his spouse. I think it boils down to selfishness.

[thecharade]

So, is "in love" a valid feeling? Or is all "in love" devoid of value? Is there only value in committed love? And is there a difference between romantic love and other love?

 

One issue I have is this: if I can love 3 kids, 2 parents, 2 siblings, a spouse and 2 cats, can I also love 2 men? And can a man love 2 women? And why can't we agree?

[OpenBook]

No, falling in love is not a choice you make (oh how I wish it were!!). And yes it's possible to love more than one person. Through many hard knocks I have learned that I cannot control my feelings... and if I want a shot at any kind of a decent life, I cannot allow my feelings to lead me in my behavior choices.

 

It's a totally FUBAR way to live, a constant battle of heart vs. head. Maybe one day they'll align before I die. But I'm not holding my breath.

 

Speaking only for myself here.

[OpenBook]

So, is "in love" a valid feeling? Or is all "in love" devoid of value? Is there only value in committed love? And is there a difference between romantic love and other love?

 

What do you mean by "value"?

[lostsoul1989]

I really do agree with that, who knows what the married person is telling the single person, once your heart is in it that's it!!

[waterwoman]

I think that 'real love', since someone asked, has a large element of self-sacrifice in it. Hence my strongest and most passionate love is for my children for whom I would gladly lay down my life if I needed to. I cant imagine anything they could so that would stop me loving them. That love just IS.

 

Love for partners is often less self-sacrifical as it requires give and take and it takes time to grow strong, when you are first together the love you see in your lover's eyes is meat and drink and that acts as a sort of feedback cycle. I love you because you love me and make me feel good. It gets 'real' for want of a better word when it is based on hard reality and you love inspite of faults because the faults are part of the whole person. When we were in MC recently the therapist asked us to list some of the things we love about each other - one of the things that H mentioned that he found endearing was my lack of concern about my appearance. Not that I walk out look like a scarecrow- I do scrub up quite well, honest! - but that if in a hurry I might put a jumper on with a hole in it, or a patch that had got bleached when I was cleaning, and when it was pointed out to me I'd just shrug. H is very concerned about his clothes and his appearance - he enjoys them, for me they are a neccessity only. But he didn't see my scruffiness as a problem, he finds it endearing and part of me that he loves and after 30 years he knows I am not going to change.

 

But if that 'real love'? I don't know. But its the nearest I can come to it. Love and acceptance of the whole persons, warts and all. Romantic? Probably not, but it's real I think.

[thecharade]

To be honest, I now hate the word Love. Nobody can agree. Everyone chooses a definition based on the need to validate their life choices. I am trying to absorb the whole notion of "I love my spouse warts and all!" lately. What does that even mean, and how does that match any descriptions here?

 

I absolutely do get that marital love is a huge investment and deserves a certain benefit of the doubt, but the use of the word LOVE after what has happened between the spouses is as irrational to me as affair love.

 

From all I've read and learned, there's committed love.

You take care of these people, feel responsible.

children, spouses, friends

 

And there's romantic love.

You want to hold them, caress them, touch them.

the AP

 

And there's intimacy love.

You want to chat and share with them.

friends, spouse, AP

 

Your spouse is the one person that should be all three but wasn't. (Although I think many times the romantic connection can be restored.)

 

But the word is used ALL over the place because there is lots of love in our lives! I used to feel warmth from the word Love, but now I cringe as everyone tries to minimize or maximize to justify their own choices.

 

Love.

Yuck.

Maybe we need to take it out of our vocabulary and start saying what we really mean when we use that word:

 

I appreciate you.

I value you.

I want you.

I like you.

I thank you.

I need you.

I think you are beautiful.

I think you are amazing.

 

But Love has just totally lost its meaning for me.

 

I appreciate my H, thank him for who he is, respect him, and like him.

 

But if I could hug someone or hold someone's hand or kiss someone's cheek, laugh with someone until I cried, I would choose my exAP.

Edited August 16, 2013 by thecharade

[Owl]

To be honest, I now hate the word Love. Nobody can agree. Everyone chooses a definition based on the need to validate their life choices. I am trying to absorb the whole notion of "I love my spouse warts and all!" lately. What does that even mean, and how does that match any descriptions here?

 

I absolutely do get that marital love is a huge investment and deserves a certain benefit of the doubt, but the use of the word LOVE after what has happened between the spouses is as irrational to me as affair love.

 

From all I've read and learned, there's committed love.

You take care of these people, feel responsible.

children, spouses, friends

 

And there's romantic love.

You want to hold them, caress them, touch them.

the AP

 

And there's intimacy love.

You want to chat and share with them.

friends, spouse, AP

 

Your spouse is the one person that should be all three but wasn't. (Although I think many times the romantic connection can be restored.)

 

But the word is used ALL over the place because there is lots of love in our lives! I used to feel warmth from the word Love, but now I cringe as everyone tries to minimize or maximize to justify their own choices.

 

Love.

Yuck.

Maybe we need to take it out of our vocabulary and start saying what we really mean when we use that word:

 

I appreciate you.

I value you.

I want you.

I like you.

I thank you.

I need you.

I think you are beautiful.

I think you are amazing.

 

But Love has just totally lost its meaning for me.

 

I appreciate my H, thank him for who he is, respect him, and like him.

 

But if I could hug someone or hold someone's hand or kiss someone's cheek, laugh with someone until I cried, I would choose my exAP.

 

Couple of thoughts. Other languages besides English often use multiple words to describe these different types of love/appreciation.

 

Our language and our culture just uses (or misuses) the word differently.

 

I don't recall your whole circumstance, so I apologize if I'm asking for info you've already shared, but does your H know how you feel, in reference to your last sentence in the above post?

 

He's ok with that?

 

What's your plan for the future of your marriage at this point?

[thecharade]

He doesn't know about the A. (My counselor believes he does but does not want to hear or deal.)

He does know about my lack of attraction to him. It has improved a little recently, but it has been a problem for all of our 15 year M. (long story)

We're both in IC with some overlapping MC.

We're working hard on the M.

I ended my A a year ago.

I've read everything and anything to help me/us.

 

I just keep doing the best I can do, waiting for my heart and attraction to catch up to my head.

[thecharade]

I know this is unpopular to say, but I feel that many, many former APs can relate to what I've written.

[Owl]

Your heart and attraction will never catch up to your head until you start actively INVESTING in making that happen.

 

Right now, you're just coasting along hoping it'll happen.

 

Our first MC (whom we later changed away from) raised a great point to my wife, who couldn't decide if she wanted to try to reconcile with me, or leave to explore a life with OM.

 

She told my wife that there was no way that our marriage was going to suddenly become wonderful again if she sat there waiting to see what was going to happen. She wouldn't hope to have a wonderful house, and then sit there and do nothing hoping that suddenly an awesome house rose up out of the ground. If she wanted a wonderful house, she'd have to choose to get one...and then do the hard work of building it.

 

Same thing with marriages/relationships.

 

You can't hope things will improve with your H if there's no change. And if he doesn't know the truth, he's got no onus to change...he doesn't know how bad things have gotten.

 

If he doesn't change, and you put no true effort into changing your side of things...how could things POSSIBLY get better????

 

Your only option towards making them better is to risk losing him. From what it sounds like, you don't feel like you're risking losing much, but stand to gain quite a bit if things improve.

[thecharade]

Also, I had no idea that so many people were opposed to the notion that you can feel a committed love for someone without a romantic bond. That is exactly what I feel for my H. And you can feel a romantic bond for someone that you cannot offer a commitment to (because it would conflict with other important commitments). I have read about this in many places and it seemed common knowledge in the world of psychology.

 

Different types of love.

All valuable and necessary.

 

Marriage (which I do appreciate) and all of its intricacies (kids, money, holidays, traditions, jealousy, houses, investments, etc.) complicate the fact that we can feel different types of love at different times and for different reasons. Maybe we shouldn't or don't want to, but humans can and do love many people in many different ways. That's just a fact.

[thecharade]

Nope, OWL, you are wrong. I am working hard and investing in my H. Absolutely.

 

I force date night every week. He often doesn't feel like going out.

I insist on a time/duration for sex. No more quickies.He needs to spend time with me.

I take time to share my day, trying to make him laugh with funny stories.

I make him buy clothes that I like, telling him he looks hot. He likes when I say that.

 

You are just wrong about how difficult things can sometimes be, assuming people aren't working hard. My H needs to work hard, too.

[Owl]

You are just wrong about how difficult things can sometimes be, assuming people aren't working hard. My H needs to work hard, too.

 

You missed my real point.

 

Why would your H work hard too, if he has no idea of the full depth of the situation?

 

You expect him to change, without explaining to him why you're insisting on change, without telling him the full truth of the situation.

 

If you were to tell him the truth, he'd be given the CHOICE to improve the situation, or to end the marriage and free you up to find someone willing to treat you the way that you're looking for.

[ladydesigner]

You missed my real point.

 

Why would your H work hard too, if he has no idea of the full depth of the situation?

 

You expect him to change, without explaining to him why you're insisting on change, without telling him the full truth of the situation.

 

If you were to tell him the truth, he'd be given the CHOICE to improve the situation, or to end the marriage and free you up to find someone willing to treat you the way that you're looking for.

 

Great post Owl!

 

I agree your BS does not know of the A therefore he is blind to knowing what could be wrong with you. I'm sure he has sensed your grieving and lack of attraction, I said those same words to my WH when I was in my A and when I asked him why he had his current A, his answer was that I was not attracted to him...and this was from 5 years ago!!!

 

I think if you were to tell your BS of your A and see the pain on his face you would quickly realize what a mess A's actually create in a M. It may even help eliminate the pining of the xAP.

[ComingInHot]

Owl, You have absolutely impressed the begeezers out of me with All Your posts today!!

Spot on, direct, the truth and still in a reapectful yet firm manner.

 

seriously OP?! Listen to Owl. (at least his posts today* lol!)

[whatatangledweb]

I think falling in love is a choice just as falling out of love. Falling in love happens as you are attracted to someone and by choice you spend more time around them, building them up in your mind. Such as he is so kind, he listens to well, etc. People do the same to fall out of love. They focus on all the negative things and pay no attention to all the positives. We choose to act on our feelings, helping them to grow or helping them to fade.