Interesting how delicate things can be

[AbeNormal]

My wife raised something today – a major trigger for me. And she didn’t recognize that – at all. I sucked it up.

 

This evening, she brought it up again (why?). I winced. And then I explained why it was a trigger. She seemed not to hear. I explained again.

 

Then she went into the “why are you doing this to ME?!!”

 

Another trigger. This is what she exclaimed (in the same way) whey I said it only made sense that she had sex with the OM. The same “Why are you doing this to ME – what is wrong with you?!!”.

 

Seems to me that the “progress” I perceived is only a pipe dream.

 

She has stormed off and is sleeping in another bedroom tonight. I suspect she wants me to come and “apologize” to her – for feeling the way I do. (And no, I didn't raise my voice or any such thing. I did early on, months ago, but not at all tonight.)

 

Damn me for expressing my feelings. Really, that was all I was trying to do at this time. I was hoping for something soothing/comforting…

 

So now I look around and think – who cares if she takes half of what we own? I would be fine anyway. And she would have to get a job.

 

And if I had/have another sleepless night, at least it wouldn’t be because “what is wrong with you!”

 

As proclaims my cheating, lying gas-lighting wife.

 

Sorry for the vent. Just getting closer to throwing in the towel.

 

Maybe just a phase. But I’ve about had enough of the phases…

Edited August 10, 2013 by AbeNormal

[Realist3]

I wish I could hug you. I'm so sorry you are feeling like this.

[AbeNormal]

Realist3 -

 

That is very kind. Thank you.

[Journee]

I'm there with you.

 

I'm sorry you are hurting. I have been feeling very ' throw in the towelish' myself here lately.

 

I don't know if anyone really knows what to expect when it comes to reconciling. Everyone seems to have an opinion but that's where the similarities end in my estimation. I'm not one that thinks all affairs are the same. All marriages are not the same either. They come with their own set of resentments ,barriers , hurt and pain right along with the good. Your trigger may not match another BS's idea of a trigger and it may be even harder for your W to grasp. I often wonder if the wayward's really 'get it' anyhow. It's very difficult when the wayward starts acting exasperated in moments when really all that is need is some comfort.

 

I can empathize and relate.

 

Just wanted to offer some understanding.

[AbeNormal]

Journee,

 

Thank you very, very much. Yes, all I wanted/needed was some comfort. Just a little bit...

 

I wish you the best.

Edited August 10, 2013 by AbeNormal

[2sunny]

The meaning you've assigned to her words hurts. Does she know that?

 

Either way, she was very insensitive - and isn't doing her part to give you comfort and peace of mind.

 

Is it always about her? That perspective doesn't leave room to grow love in any marriage.

 

Are you normally not "heard"?

 

I'm sorry she's so insensitive to your feelings and discounts you having a voice - and being heard - having a say.

 

Stifling your feelings to make others happy - when it makes you sad - is stifling... And can make you physically sick.

 

I hope you can be heard.

[Betterthanthis13]

I'm so sorry, getting your hopes up in R from seeing "progress" and then hearing something like that must be brutal to the verge of intolerable.

 

I'm not an R person but am still within earshot of the cheater, and I'm the only one in my support group not in R. I am familiar with the post A selfish thinking cycle. I don't know what your wife is like, but for really stubborn, pathological cheaters like the one I am dealing with, it seems like (from what I have observed) the internal justification system is still active in full force well after the cheating behavior has stopped. It stays at their own comfort level inside their head, and is initially broken only when acted upon by an outside source (therapy, etc) until over time, it either starts decreasing to the point where they have a breakthrough and some sort of shift in thinking that allows them to see the whole reality and not just their own, and begin to process the BS's pain and side of the story without provocation.

 

They are able to articulate what appears to be "progress" at the appropriate times, but it isn't real progress unless they are invested in it 100% and, I don't want to say excited about it-enthusiastic, maybe? If it seems like a chore for them....it's like the difference between a kid learning the piano because he wants to be in a symphony someday, and a kid who's mom makes him take piano lessons but isn't really into it. They can both play the notes, but the first one is actually learning something, the second one is just doing it to make his mom happy.

 

Or, they resist the process altogether and just try to wear the BS out over time, manipulating them into submission so they will just accept the A as something that happened in the past, and get on with the marriage in its broken state, pretending everything is ok.

 

There's no symphony going on in my house. So, no R.

 

What does an R symphony sound like? I don't know. But I do know without a doubt that I am not hearing one.

 

You can't make anyone do anything. She sucks for saying that to you. I hope she has to wake up to go pee and stubs her toe.

Edited August 10, 2013 by Betterthanthis13

[2sunny]

Does she always treat you like you're beneath her? Diminish you? Act like you need to apologize when she did something wrong?

 

From what you describe - she's very stunted emotionally. To be unable to talk through feelings - and by storming off so you feel punished for expressing feelings - and have her never acknowledge she hurt you - is just terrible on her part!

 

SHE is the one who cheated!!! She should be kissing YOUR azz!!!

 

I doubt she respects you. Is she in counseling - are you in MC?

[compulsivedancer]

I'm sorry, Abe.

 

Talk to Confused about the 180. It sounds like you're getting closer to that point. She doesn't think you could/would leave her, so she's not really interested in what you need. If you decide to leave, or even just talk to her and let her know that's where her mind is, that might force HER to try reconciling, as opposed to making YOU do the heavy lifting. Just a thought.

[blueberry13]

I experienced something similar last night. I am not sure to what extent my husband has cheated (or if he cheated) depends on your perspective....(he has lied to me 6 times where he had been and after finding out he was at strip clubs it took three days for him to admit he was touching breasts. He does not think it is a big deal. He also had texted a young girl inappropriately having exchanged numbers on a guys trip and thats all I have. The guys he goes away with are not the best influence. However, similar to you, I had expressed my feelings last night saying I wasn't sure he has told me everything. He called my feelings nonsense and said "I don't see this working, not for another 3 years". (He is mad I am not trusting him) We have been married for 17 years and have two preteen children. I too, think I was looking for some consolation but he got angry and went to bed telling me he is mad at me. Are you married to a Narcissist too? It's so difficult.

[drifter777]

I've had similar experiences and understand how you feel and there is now way I could comfort you with a "there, there - you'll feel better in the morning" crap. You might feel better, but only because your anger and hurt feelings have dulled as your mind fills with the day-to-day grind of life. It sounds like your marriage is still in crisis and your wife either doesn't get it or doesn't care.

 

Another thing to consider is that you can't truly forgive someone who is not trying to earn that forgiveness. Are you seeing a counselor? If not you should really think about getting into therapy. You haven't healed and you probably aren't going to unless you change the way you are dealing with this.

 

Abe: can you point me to your d-day story? I think you had to alter your user name but I'm not sure.

[2sunny]

I don't think it's too much to ask - that his wife consider his feelings - by being callous and making fun of him.

 

In fact - I think SHE'S the one who needs to change - by respecting him more - and IF she won't - then she may as well still be cheating because she treating him like crap anyway - now and STILL.

 

Her level of disrespect and disregard is still present... Which sucks!

[bubbaganoosh]

Tonight, go in her bedroom and you should have a handful of her clothes and throw them on the bed and tell her to stay there. Also let her know that you were gracious enough to forgive her and that your now doubting your decision and that she can stay there until she wises up and comes to realize that who was the one that had the affair and whose the one acting like she did you a favor by staying in the house. Maybe she'll get the picture.

[BetrayedH]

It would be easy for me to jump on the "you should be pissed at her" bandwagon. And a big side of me says they're right.

 

There's also another smaller side of me that remembers that my wife often took my triggers as, in some way, that I was punishing her or trying to punish her. I think that (sometimes) waywards carry a decent amount of guilt with them all the time and when we raise a trigger it feels to them as if we are just piling on. I certainly don't think that was your intent. I would hope that she thinks about it more rationally in the morning. You have an apology coming to you and I don't think you owe her one.

 

Reconciliation is incredibly difficult on both parties. You know the pain a BS suffers. I think for some waywards, it is tremendously difficult because it is plainly obvious that they're the guilty party 24/7. They can't escape it and the BS can always claim the moral high ground. And it goes on for not just weeks or months but for years. It's easy for me to see how they must eventually just reach a breaking point.

 

I don't think I have answers for you. I'm curious to see if she recants her position. If so, I suspect you can try to forgive the outburst. But if not, I'd be tempted to make sure she knows where the door is if she can't handle being sensitive to what she's done to you for the long haul. What she needs to understand is that as much as she wants you to be over it, nobody wants you to be over it more than you do.

[2sunny]

Since she's still thinking so much of herself - its hard to imagine that she's capable of how you feel - and that she's caused those hurt feelings.

 

Why are you doing this to ME? IF she was thinking of ANYONE but herself - she would know the real reason why you may have 1 million reasons to ask questions to her - to express how you feel after she blew your life and love to smithereens.

 

But no - she's too busy still being a selfish biatch.

[compulsivedancer]

It would be easy for me to jump on the "you should be pissed at her" bandwagon. And a big side of me says they're right.

 

There's also another smaller side of me that remembers that my wife often took my triggers as, in some way, that I was punishing her or trying to punish her. I think that (sometimes) waywards carry a decent amount of guilt with them all the time and when we raise a trigger it feels to them as if we are just piling on. I certainly don't think that was your intent. I would hope that she thinks about it more rationally in the morning. You have an apology coming to you and I don't think you owe her one.

 

Reconciliation is incredibly difficult on both parties. You know the pain a BS suffers. I think for some waywards, it is tremendously difficult because it is plainly obvious that they're the guilty party 24/7. They can't escape it and the BS can always claim the moral high ground. And it goes on for not just weeks or months but for years. It's easy for me to see how they must eventually just reach a breaking point.

 

This is true. While I'd like to pretend that I'm always 100% supportive and always ready to make things up to H, we had an argument earlier this week (long story relating to H wanting me to say things I don't fully believe, then angry that they didn't sound 100% truthful) that ended in me trying to leave the house then realizing I didn't have a car available and finally telling him exactly what BetrayedH just said.

 

I don't think I have answers for you. I'm curious to see if she recants her position. If so, I suspect you can try to forgive the outburst. But if not, I'd be tempted to make sure she knows where the door is if she can't handle being sensitive to what she's done to you for the long haul. What she needs to understand is that as much as she wants you to be over it, nobody wants you to be over it more than you do.

 

I think BetrayedH has a point. It sounds like this has been building up, at least on your side, for some time now, which is why I counseled you the way I did. But if this is just a one-time outburst, then he might be right.

 

I was thinking about this post today, and one thing that I thought about is that you seem to be someone who is very caring and maybe a little reticent to display negative emotions. I wonder if you are truly being heard? It's possible that you think you're communicating with her your hurt and your needs, but she is just hearing quiet suggestions, not the true pain and desperation in your heart.

 

Make sure that she is truly hearing you, and if you have difficulty getting it across, enlist the help of a good marriage counselor. It would be a shame if she truly wanted to R but just wasn't understanding what was necessary to do it.

[BetrayedH]

Since she's still thinking so much of herself - its hard to imagine that she's capable of how you feel - and that she's caused those hurt feelings.

 

Why are you doing this to ME? IF she was thinking of ANYONE but herself - she would know the real reason why you may have 1 million reasons to ask questions to her - to express how you feel after she blew your life and love to smithereens.

 

But no - she's too busy still being a selfish biatch.

 

This could also be very true. I think it's tough for us to say from here. And it's tough for Abe to be truly objective. And it's tough to figure out which wayward you're dealing with; it took me many months to realize that my wife wasn't truly remorseful and that she was really staying out of guilt, obligation and fear. It doesn't work because those motivations won't last for 2-5 years. Tough to know if she was just temporarily overwhelmed or if her heart just really isn't in it. And Abe's response should be very different depending on which scenario is really true.

[Spark1111]

time to 180 Abe!

 

You are seeing the full extent of your fWS' neediness, how damaged she is, in that she triggers you, triggers you again, gets angry at YOU, and then storms off.

 

Lot's of attention and drama and anger here.....and it is working for her....it's how she feels love...it's why she had an affair, but it is hurting you!

 

Ignore the tantrums.

 

Time to be brutally honest Abe. Time to calmly tell her that while you love her, unless she learns to compassionately help you heal through these triggers, to LISTEN to your pain and stop reacting to her pain, there is not much hope.

 

Then live it, act it in your daily life. It is TIME for old habits of reacting and avoiding conflict to end.

 

that starts with YOU being brutally honest.

[road]

My wife raised something today – a major trigger for me. And she didn’t recognize that – at all. I sucked it up.

 

This evening, she brought it up again (why?). I winced. And then I explained why it was a trigger. She seemed not to hear. I explained again.

 

Then she went into the “why are you doing this to ME?!!”

 

Another trigger. This is what she exclaimed (in the same way) whey I said it only made sense that she had sex with the OM. The same “Why are you doing this to ME – what is wrong with you?!!”.

 

Seems to me that the “progress” I perceived is only a pipe dream.

 

She has stormed off and is sleeping in another bedroom tonight. I suspect she wants me to come and “apologize” to her – for feeling the way I do. (And no, I didn't raise my voice or any such thing. I did early on, months ago, but not at all tonight.)

 

Damn me for expressing my feelings. Really, that was all I was trying to do at this time. I was hoping for something soothing/comforting…

 

So now I look around and think – who cares if she takes half of what we own? I would be fine anyway. And she would have to get a job.

 

And if I had/have another sleepless night, at least it wouldn’t be because “what is wrong with you!”

 

As proclaims my cheating, lying gas-lighting wife.

 

Sorry for the vent. Just getting closer to throwing in the towel.

 

Maybe just a phase. But I’ve about had enough of the phases…

 

 

There is nothing to like about this post.

 

It is totally one sided because the OP left out the causes of the triggers.

 

There are many ways to respond to a trigger.

[BetrayedH]

There is nothing to like about this post.

 

It is totally one sided because the OP left out the causes of the triggers.

 

There are many ways to respond to a trigger.

 

What I like is that Abe is finding his own voice. He didn't trip all over himself trying to fix her problem. In fact, he started thinking about how he didn't need half that stuff. Knowing that he will be ok with or without her is a pretty critical step. I agree with Spark that he should let her have her tantrums and be confident in himself. Doing the 180 when she has them is probably damn good advice.

Edited August 11, 2013 by BetrayedH

[road]

What I like is that Abe is finding his own voice. He didn't trip all over himself trying to fix her problem. In fact, he started thinking about how he didn't need half that stuff. Knowing that he will be ok with or without her is a pretty critical step. I agree with Spark that he should let her have her tantrums and be confident in himself. Doing the 180 when she has them is probably damn good advice.

 

 

There is a difference between finding a voice and how the conversation went down. Without better info no one can judge how good or bad a job Abe did.

[beatcuff]

sort of with ROAD on this one. what was the trigger? if she said 'lets go to the beach' i am with her --- just too common an expression.

 

and with BetrayedH that maybe you are over the top especially if this is the first time.

 

OR not that i am condoning what W did but if you look at it from her side --- if she is really trying and you are throwing roadblocks she will get frustrated. and maybe it came out.

 

let things settle down. if this was truly frustration on her part she will realize it and apologize with the goal to move forward.