Has anyone NEVER seen OW?

[HopingAgain]

No worries about the T/J. Most of the threads here seem to go off on all manner of tangents anyway. I do actually wonder how much more investigative I could get with this based off of what info I already have and could get. The other obvious sources of info are my husband's coworker and the cousin whose house they were frequenting, and I could ask my husband to question them about it so I could get more info but then at the same time I don't want to do anything that could possibly encourage them resuming contact somehow. If he asks for the info there is the possibility that they (his friends) could volunteer more than what he asked like her current number and whereabouts, etc. Of course that is all possible even without me asking or knowing about it, but its the thought of it, you know?

[Journee]

OP, I hope you can find some answers that will get you to a good place. That you will not feel like you are walking in the dark where you live. It seems sometimes like the AP gets an almost voyeuristic look into our lives but the moment we show curiosity faced in the AP direction we are looked at sideways. I totally understand your reasoning and is really at the forefront of my reconciliation too.

 

Good luck. It's a big bag of crap we are handed and then we keep holding it. I guess some BS's figure out how to set it down but not until they work through what's needed in sure.

[HopingAgain]

OP, I hope you can find some answers that will get you to a good place. That you will not feel like you are walking in the dark where you live. It seems sometimes like the AP gets an almost voyeuristic look into our lives but the moment we show curiosity faced in the AP direction we are looked at sideways. I totally understand your reasoning and is really at the forefront of my reconciliation too.

 

Good luck. It's a big bag of crap we are handed and then we keep holding it. I guess some BS's figure out how to set it down but not until they work through what's needed in sure.

 

Thank you, Journee. It's so true about walking in the dark, I really don't trust anything I hear anymore and half of what I see! I do know I need to do more to find this out but not sure what all lengths I want to go to in order to do it. If she hadn't of been so cowardly I could have talked to her and/or met with her in person and my mind would have at least been at ease on that. It's not something I think about every day, as I really have no means of controlling it either way.

 

Even if I did see her in passing and was unaware, her and my husband are no longer in contact and that I am 100% sure of in that the affair is over, so that at this point is most important. And we are moving on from it day by day but this is the one big question that is unanswered and comes to stare me in the face from time to time.

[compulsivedancer]

No worries about the T/J. Most of the threads here seem to go off on all manner of tangents anyway. I do actually wonder how much more investigative I could get with this based off of what info I already have and could get. The other obvious sources of info are my husband's coworker and the cousin whose house they were frequenting, and I could ask my husband to question them about it so I could get more info but then at the same time I don't want to do anything that could possibly encourage them resuming contact somehow. If he asks for the info there is the possibility that they (his friends) could volunteer more than what he asked like her current number and whereabouts, etc. Of course that is all possible even without me asking or knowing about it, but its the thought of it, you know?

 

I definitely wouldn't have him do this. This would be a violation of NC and might set him back R-wise. Maybe not, since he sounds like he wasn't super-attached yet. But still. A few weeks ago, a mutual friend mentioned my AP and a vacation he and his GF just took and it sent me down another spiral of thought about AP. I would rather not have known.

 

If YOU were able to question these guys (if there's any likelihood they would give you any answers, that might be different. But don't have him do it.

[MissBee]

First of all, we aren't talking about if an OW was saying these things... we're talking about the BS. Completely different.

Second, in most cases, the OW already KNOWS who the BS is, where they live, what they look like, where they work (as exhibited by the threads on the OW "side." They already have "one up" on the BS by knowing about the affair, so once again, it's completely different than the BS wanting to know who has been in an affair with their SO, since they didn't already.

 

Thirdly, I don't know that it'd be considered stalking unless it was repetitive.

 

Right.

 

I don't really understand the constant OW/BS comparison as though being an OW is exactly the same as being a BS and what makes sense for a BS to do or what a BS has a right to do are the exact same things for the OW. They aren't and never will be. This is common sense. A BS is already married to someone openly and has an open life with them which the affair and OW infringe upon secretly, how on earth can an OW expect that the situations are the same and that what a BS subsequently needs to do is also her right?

 

I understood what being an OW meant...and God forbid my spouse have an affair, but if they had to, I would hope they would be smart enough to choose an OW wh knows her place and what it means instead of one who thinks being someone's wife and their OW are exactly the same and thus everything the BS gets to do is fair game for her as well.

[HopingAgain]

I definitely wouldn't have him do this. This would be a violation of NC and might set him back R-wise. Maybe not, since he sounds like he wasn't super-attached yet. But still. A few weeks ago, a mutual friend mentioned my AP and a vacation he and his GF just took and it sent me down another spiral of thought about AP. I would rather not have known.

 

If YOU were able to question these guys (if there's any likelihood they would give you any answers, that might be different. But don't have him do it.

 

Thank you for this. You confirmed what I was already thinking and don't want to go down that road and definitely don't want to fuel any paranoia on my own part. If

[HopingAgain]

Right.

 

I don't really understand the constant OW/BS comparison as though being an OW is exactly the same as being a BS and what makes sense for a BS to do or what a BS has a right to do are the exact same things for the OW. They aren't and never will be. This is common sense. A BS is already married to someone openly and has an open life with them which the affair and OW infringe upon secretly, how on earth can an OW expect that the situations are the same and that what a BS subsequently needs to do is also her right?

 

I understood what being an OW meant...and God forbid my spouse have an affair, but if they had to, I would hope they would be smart enough to choose an OW wh knows her place and what it means instead of one who thinks being someone's wife and their OW are exactly the same and thus everything the BS gets to do is fair game for her as well.

 

Amen to all of this! The constant comparisons do get old!

[findingnemo]

Hoping,

 

Something is bothering me. I wonder if I missed the whole storyline another thread or something. I will check after posting this. But I don't understand some things in your WH's story.

 

You said your H saw the OW three times and can't remember her name because he was drunk. Does he usually get so drunk and/or high he forgets where he is, what he is doing, where he needs to go? If he does then you have a much bigger problem than this OW. How does he even know he did something with a OW? How was he able to? If one is drunk enough to forget then one can't do much in terms of physical intimacy. If he doesn't, then it is all a lie and an effort to minimize what happened. In any case, three times...drunk all three times... Improbable. If it is not true, why lie?

 

Yes, he gave you a first name and a number. Hoping, if there is anyone in this world who understands how you think it is your H. Is he thinking that by telling you he doesn't really know her (he didn't even get her last name), by giving you a name and number, knowing she lives/lived with her mother, you may decide that since it wasn't that big a deal, you will drop it?

 

Let me disagree about this breaking NC issue... Normally a couple goes through R having both decided to. The WS obviously is trying to save his/her M. The BS is usually satisfied that he/she knows almost everything about the A and feels able to proceed with working on the A. How do you decide to R without knowing who this woman is? IMO, do what you have to do. At this point, you have no way of knowing whether or not he has maintained NC. Why? Because you don't know anything about this woman. Talk to his friends and ask them who she is. They know and will tell you if you don't back down. And if it turns out that it is actually someone you know or have heard of, you may need to find her to get the truth about how long they were seeing each other.

 

I'm not saying that the situation is definitely worse than you think it is. I'm saying that cheaters lie. That is their forte. They lie so they can see other people, they lie to those other people they are seeing and they lie most especially to their BS' when they are caught. Your H may have trickle - truthed you with the whole first name thing and the number and address. Better you find out sooner than later what happened. Obviously he is the last person to be a reliable source.

[HopingAgain]

Thank you for your thoughts, FindingNemo!

 

Yes, the whole story makes sense when you read my past threads.The abridged version is that I got "lucky" if you can call it that, and overheard a conversation between them on Dday with details confirming that they'd seen eachother 3 times, and a lot of other details that spelled out they were just getting to know eachother. After Dday, I put a VAR in his vehicle unbeknownst to him and confirmed more details from his conversations with friends, including that they'd never had sex (which I knew that anyway from the overheard convo anyway) and that after he got busted the details he'd told me were true. He also talked about the OW trying to continue contact and that he ignored her texts and calls. Long story short...for the first few months after Dday I did a LOT of diligent surveillance and they did cut contact and I confirmed the truth of the events leading up to and after Dday.

 

He's not a big time drinker although hev does try to keep up with his friends when they're out. He's a social drinker and can't manage more than a few drinks whereas his friends are big time drinkers so of course that in itself was a recipe for trouble and it did not help matters at all. My husband said his drunken debauchery over there didn't cause him to start things up with OW but it did help contribute to it . We've talked about ways in therapy to avoid those types of scenarios going forward. As well as exploring what led up to it in the first place.

 

He sure as hell knew that I was gonna dig when he gave me the info he did. I tend to analyze situations to death and he knows that about me and was nervous about me callingv her. But I did. Soon as he gave me her # next morning after Dday after we had been up all night arguing. She dodged me but tried to keep contacting him for weeks afterwards. So through what I overheard on Dday, details WH gave which I laterv confirmed through good old fashioned snooping over a 3-4 month period, and piecing some stuff together in my mind I know OF her and the situation even though I never got got a chance to meet her or ask questions.

 

Once I was confident the affair was over and NC was sticking we started therapy and since about 5 months ago have been slowly working on untangling all of this mess.

Edited August 11, 2013 by HopingAgain

[compulsivedancer]

Actually, I do agree with Nemo, in that I think you should talk to the friends and find out, if you really want to know. Just don't have HIM do it.

[HopingAgain]

I can talk to the coworkers cousin, the guy whose house it was they were all getting together at. He would know the most info about her as she knew him before meeting my H. The coworker himself I won't bother with because he's the biggest liar aroundv and I wouldn't trust him as a reliable source at all.

[findingnemo]

Thank you for your thoughts, FindingNemo!

 

Yes, the whole story makes sense when you read my past threads.The abridged version is that I got "lucky" if you can call it that, and overheard a conversation between them on Dday with details confirming that they'd seen eachother 3 times, and a lot of other details that spelled out they were just getting to know eachother. After Dday, I put a VAR in his vehicle unbeknownst to him and confirmed more details from his conversations with friends, including that they'd never had sex (which I knew that anyway from the overheard convo anyway) and that after he got busted the details he'd told me were true. He also talked about the OW trying to continue contact and that he ignored her texts and calls. Long story short...for the first few months after Dday I did a LOT of diligent surveillance and they did cut contact and I confirmed the truth of the events leading up to and after Dday.

 

He's not a big time drinker although hev does try to keep up with his friends when they're out. He's a social drinker and can't manage more than a few drinks whereas his friends are big time drinkers so of course that in itself was a recipe for trouble and it did not help matters at all. My husband said his drunken debauchery over there didn't cause him to start things up with OW but it did help contribute to it . We've talked about ways in therapy to avoid those types of scenarios going forward. As well as exploring what led up to it in the first place.

 

He sure as hell knew that I was gonna dig when he gave me the info he did. I tend to analyze situations to death and he knows that about me and was nervous about me callingv her. But I did. Soon as he gave me her # next morning after Dday after we had been up all night arguing. She dodged me but tried to keep contacting him for weeks afterwards. So through what I overheard on Dday, details WH gave which I laterv confirmed through good old fashioned snooping over a 3-4 month period, and piecing some stuff together in my mind I know OF her and the situation even though I never got got a chance to meet her or ask questions.

 

Once I was confident the affair was over and NC was sticking we started therapy and since about 5 months ago have been slowly working on untangling all of this mess.

 

Thanks for the summary!

 

First of all, it is good your H is not a drinker. The OW seems like she was scared of you and tried to find him to what? Find out what was going on? Rekindle their acquaintance? It could be anything.

 

I really hope that MC will help and that he will open up about what may have been the cause. I do feel though that you should talk to his friends. Are they your friends too? Do you like them? They owe you the truth. If this is the last investigative work you do, do it. After all, it does bug you somewhat. Hence this thread.

 

PS. From your posts on other threads I agree that you analyze things.

[dichotomy]

May I jump in as BH.

 

I met OM once, before I new he was OM. I thought (was told) he was a friend and I tired to be very pleasant and nice to her all her "friends" back then.

 

That always has been a thorn in my side -knowing that way back then - he knew - and he knew that I did not know - and so did she. Ugh.

 

Fortunately OM lives far away in her home town.....and to give my wife credit (I don't always do this here), she gave up going back to her home town years ago to try to avoid any possible issues for me and her.

[HopingAgain]

Thanks for the summary!

 

First of all, it is good your H is not a drinker. The OW seems like she was scared of you and tried to find him to what? Find out what was going on? Rekindle their acquaintance? It could be anything.

 

I really hope that MC will help and that he will open up about what may have been the cause. I do feel though that you should talk to his friends. Are they your friends too? Do you like them? They owe you the truth. If this is the last investigative work you do, do it. After all, it does bug you somewhat. Hence this thread.

 

PS. From your posts on other threads I agree that you analyze things.

 

I saw some of her texts and she wanted to know what was going on after Dday and I assume to resume the affair. From what I overheard and her trying to keep up contact, even though they hadn't known eachother long she really liked him and was hoping for something more.

 

His friends are all pretty loyal to eachother to a fault andv I'm not sure the few who knew would be receptive to talking to me about his affair. The coworker is an exception he is pretty sleazy but I don't trust that he would tell the truth either. My best bet is coworkers cousin, who I know casually and he doesn't know my H well either. So he'd be most likely to be forthcoming and notv lie or be hush hush out of loyalty to H.

[findingnemo]

Good. That's a plan!

 

I hope in his changes your H has included reducing his interaction with his sleazy friend.

[HopingAgain]

May I jump in as BH.

 

I met OM once, before I new he was OM. I thought (was told) he was a friend and I tired to be very pleasant and nice to her all her "friends" back then.

 

That always has been a thorn in my side -knowing that way back then - he knew - and he knew that I did not know - and so did she. Ugh.

 

Fortunately OM lives far away in her home town.....and to give my wife credit (I don't always do this here), she gave up going back to her home town years ago to try to avoid any possible issues for me and her.

 

Ugh, Dichotomy that does sound so infuriating! I'm sure that must have been nervewracking for all involved but especially you after finding out. It sounds like your wife is really making an effort to do her part in repairing the damage and ease your min, and that is great!

[Spark1111]

May I jump in as BH.

 

I met OM once, before I new he was OM. I thought (was told) he was a friend and I tired to be very pleasant and nice to her all her "friends" back then.

 

That always has been a thorn in my side -knowing that way back then - he knew - and he knew that I did not know - and so did she. Ugh.

 

Fortunately OM lives far away in her home town.....and to give my wife credit (I don't always do this here), she gave up going back to her home town years ago to try to avoid any possible issues for me and her.

 

 

me too! co worker introduced as work friend who accidentally on purpose showed up when we were out with friends!

 

I bought her a drink and she whispered some story about her horrible herxH was regarding their child. I commiserated with her!

 

So, yes, I've been stalked during and after the affair.

 

You BET I needed to know where this piece of work lived and looked like, again.

[HopingAgain]

Good. That's a plan!

 

I hope in his changes your H has included reducing his interaction with his sleazy friend.

 

Thanks! And yes H is not interacting with coworker now thank goodness. Not long ago he had a work assignment with him and that wracked my nerves terribly but H kept it strictly business and not long after that the coworker quit so now they're no longer even working together.

[dichotomy]

Ugh, Dichotomy that does sound so infuriating! I'm sure that must have been nervewracking for all involved but especially you after finding out. It sounds like your wife is really making an effort to do her part in repairing the damage and ease your min, and that is great!

 

 

Thanks. My wife's response to her EA and past, has been a mixed bag, as I have complained here, but her giving up going to her home town for the several years now means she has avoided OM, places they went, and other bad eggs she knew, but she also has not seen good friends that she grew up with. This has been a painful loss to her to loose connection to the good one. She has discussed going back, for her high school reunion next year, and I am of mixed emotions about it. The damage and hurt and trust issues remain.

[dichotomy]

me too! co worker introduced as work friend who accidentally on purpose showed up when we were out with friends!

 

I bought her a drink and she whispered some story about her horrible herxH was regarding their child. I commiserated with her!

 

So, yes, I've been stalked during and after the affair.

 

You BET I needed to know where this piece of work lived and looked like, again.

 

 

I think both sides of seeing OW/OM - before you knew - or after dDay- have bad sides. Before hand, you have the hidden disrespect issue and games - after Dday you have the anger and other emotions. I am glad I have not seen OM afterwards - it would be very bad and likely physical. I wonder if any of you gals ever felt like punching OW lights out? maybe just guy thing:rolleyes:

Edited August 12, 2013 by dichotomy

[findingnemo]

I did, dichotomy. And in one case I confronted her and got a bit physical. I shoved her. Fortunately for her she didn't fight back. she looked so scared it just seemed silly to continue. But I did tell her exactly what I thought and warned her of dire consequences if I ever heard she was near my xH again. I assured her that I would kill her and that I didn't care what happened afterwards as long as she was wiped off the face of the planet. At that time, I sincerely meant every word.

 

It was not a good idea in hindsight but the woman was really taking the piss. She would call his cell phone at 1 or 2 am and when he ignored it she'd call mine. I picked up the first couple of times because I didn't recognize the number. She insulted me in the most uncouth manner. She was so crass. I then saved her number as "Avoid" and ignored her. What made me search her out was confronting my xH at a wedding reception and ensuring everybody heard how he had slept with her, how I was frigid and he had sex with me only for reproduction, how he hid his income from me and how he stayed with me for status rather than love. Thank God, I wasn't there.

 

One thing I really hate is humiliation. I can stand a lot of things but not to be made to look like a fool. I had had it with all the As and I think I just took my frustration out on that particular OW. I decided to take care of things my way. I looked for that woman the whole day and found her late in the afternoon. I was determined to beat her senseless. I didn't care about police or assault charges. For the first time in my life, I realized that someone can push you into committing a crime of passion.

 

APs should really be careful and stop assuming that BS' are wimps. You can find you have stirred a hornet's nest without realizing it. When I was the AP, I stayed very very far away from the BW. Even now, I am careful. You never know what can happen. She might be a loose canon like me.

[screwedovertwenty]

I think both sides of seeing OW/OM - before you knew - or after dDay- have bad sides. Before hand, you have the hidden disrespect issue and games - after Dday you have the anger and other emotions. I am glad I have not seen OM afterwards - it would be very bad and likely physical. I wonder if any of you gals ever felt like punching OW lights out? maybe just guy thing:rolleyes:

 

I wanted to. I am a very nonviolent person. I rarely even raise my voice. I wanted to beat the living **** out of her! I know where she lives. My best friend was in town last month and told me that she would go with me and hold her while I beat her! LOL! She is the kind to beat the crap out of someone. Had she been around on DDay, my husband would have been beat up by a girl!

 

I mentioned earlier in this thread that my WS only knew her first name and then was told after DDay that that wasn't even her real name. I believe that he only knew her first name even if it went on a year. They were coworkers at a restaurant and working in this business, I rarely know my coworkers last names.

 

I have searched and searched for clues online and have found very little. Nothing about her. I know whose name her phone is in. That's about it. I want to know more.

[Speakingofwhich]

Have a close friend who walked in on H and OW in his office. OW was on the conf table and BW beat her up while H watched. Finally H called her off so OW left with her life. Was interesting to me that H let BW have at it with OW for awhile. Just stood there and watched.

[HopingAgain]

I think both sides of seeing OW/OM - before you knew - or after dDay- have bad sides. Before hand, you have the hidden disrespect issue and games - after Dday you have the anger and other emotions. I am glad I have not seen OM afterwards - it would be very bad and likely physical. I wonder if any of you gals ever felt like punching OW lights out? maybe just guy thing:rolleyes:

 

Not just a guy thing! Right after I overheard WH and OW on Dday I went out to the house where they were at with the full intentions of beating the ever lasting hell out of them both. But of course I would have gone for OW first as I knew I could get to him at anytime later. Luckily for both of them she was gone when I arrived and he was passed out drunk on the couch. The Lord was looking out for us all that day because I would have surely been either in jail or fleeing arrest for assault charges had I seen them together.

[HopingAgain]

I did, dichotomy. And in one case I confronted her and got a bit physical. I shoved her. Fortunately for her she didn't fight back. she looked so scared it just seemed silly to continue. But I did tell her exactly what I thought and warned her of dire consequences if I ever heard she was near my xH again. I assured her that I would kill her and that I didn't care what happened afterwards as long as she was wiped off the face of the planet. At that time, I sincerely meant every word.

 

It was not a good idea in hindsight but the woman was really taking the piss. She would call his cell phone at 1 or 2 am and when he ignored it she'd call mine. I picked up the first couple of times because I didn't recognize the number. She insulted me in the most uncouth manner. She was so crass. I then saved her number as "Avoid" and ignored her. What made me search her out was confronting my xH at a wedding reception and ensuring everybody heard how he had slept with her, how I was frigid and he had sex with me only for reproduction, how he hid his income from me and how he stayed with me for status rather than love. Thank God, I wasn't there.

 

One thing I really hate is humiliation. I can stand a lot of things but not to be made to look like a fool. I had had it with all the As and I think I just took my frustration out on that particular OW. I decided to take care of things my way. I looked for that woman the whole day and found her late in the afternoon. I was determined to beat her senseless. I didn't care about police or assault charges. For the first time in my life, I realized that someone can push you into committing a crime of passion.

 

APs should really be careful and stop assuming that BS' are wimps. You can find you have stirred a hornet's nest without realizing it. When I was the AP, I stayed very very far away from the BW. Even now, I am careful. You never know what can happen. She might be a loose canon like me.

 

 

You hit the nail on the head on all points, especially the humiliation factor. Yes the quickest way for a loved one to get me from 0 to 60 in 2 seconds is to humiliate me ESPECIALLY if I perceive that humiliation to be public. And its true about taking kindness for weakness, a person pushed to their limit will snap I don't care how nice they are.