Balzac Posted August 10, 2013 Posted August 10, 2013 In the USA 50% of pregnancies are unplanned. It is what it is.
Maleficent Posted August 10, 2013 Posted August 10, 2013 Maybe but I can at least show some empathy for a woman that has trust issues. Many women in these threads refuse to even consider why many men feel the way they do about this. Even if you don't agree at least try to understand where it is coming from. Is that too much to ask? Also somebody that many men never talk about this stuff in person and I agree. Many men have trust issues but never discuss it with women offline. I can understand a man having trust issues. However, what you men need to understand is that, when you're in a happy relationship, there should be no trust issues. If you can't at least trust your partner why are you even together? If your partner gives you reasons to have trust issues, why would you even stay together? I don't have to accept being accused of cheating because some people put everyone in the same boat. If my partner asked for a paternity test, I would certainly do it, but I would be hurt. It's a direct attack to my integrity. Deal with your issues before being so involved with someone. 2
fortyninethousand322 Posted August 10, 2013 Posted August 10, 2013 If a guy decides to try for a baby with his wife and then balks at the idea of putting down money to raise the child, then there's something wrong with his head. If the cost of raising a child, whether through being a father or simply paying out child support from a distance, is a concern, why on earth would a man want to try to have a baby with his wife? Again, planned versus unplanned pregnancies, long-term relationships versus newer ones. It makes a difference. A huge one. Not every case is one in which you've only known the person for 5 months and aren't quite sure, so it's absurd to treat every situation like that. I'm saying if his wife cheated, and the child wasn't his, why would he want to help raise the child (financially or otherwise)? Doesn't matter if he thought the child was his for 10 years or 10 days, it would still be wrong for him to have to support the child if the child wasn't biologically his. Fact. Do you think it's right for someone to have to pay for a child that wasn't biologically theirs? Note: I'm not talking about a situation in which someone chooses to take on that responsibility, I'm talking about forcing them to. Sometimes you think you're in a normal, happy, wonderful marriage and then out of the blue it turns out your spouse cheated, is secretly a mob hit man, is a serial killer, whatever. Sometimes the child you think is yours isn't. So, I can understand why some men would want to know for sure. Would I ask my (hypothetical) wife for a paternity test? No, because I'd be afraid that it would upset her and she'd dump me and I'd never be able to find another girl to date/marry me ever again. Don't rock the boat sort of thing. But, I can imagine a guy without that fear might want to protect himself. 1
Woggle Posted August 10, 2013 Posted August 10, 2013 I can understand a man having trust issues. However, what you men need to understand is that, when you're in a happy relationship, there should be no trust issues. If you can't at least trust your partner why are you even together? If your partner gives you reasons to have trust issues, why would you even stay together? I don't have to accept being accused of cheating because some people put everyone in the same boat. If my partner asked for a paternity test, I would certainly do it, but I would be hurt. It's a direct attack to my integrity. Deal with your issues before being so involved with someone. There are plenty of men who thought they had a happy relationship and it blew up in their face. If you want to get mad at anybody get mad at the women who betray men's trust. Men get mad at other men all the time for making it bad for all men so why can't women direct that anger towards the women who do betray men's trust. The women who cheat, lie and have kids by their affair partner are why a lot of men have trust issues. Blame them instead of the men who just want to protect themselves.
Maleficent Posted August 10, 2013 Posted August 10, 2013 In the USA 50% of pregnancies are unplanned. It is what it is. Then they can get their own test and leave the rest of us who know how to use contraception properly alone. I refuse to believe every single one of the 'unplanned parents' were being as safe as they should have been...
sweetjasmine Posted August 10, 2013 Posted August 10, 2013 I'm saying if his wife cheated, and the child wasn't his, why would he want to help raise the child (financially or otherwise)? Doesn't matter if he thought the child was his for 10 years or 10 days, it would still be wrong for him to have to support the child if the child wasn't biologically his. Fact. Well, you might be surprised. My MIL's new boyfriend voluntarily supported the child his wife had with someone else. But, yes, it's wrong to deceive someone into supporting and/or raising a child that's not theirs. Sometimes you think you're in a normal, happy, wonderful marriage and then out of the blue it turns out your spouse cheated, is secretly a mob hit man, is a serial killer, whatever. So do you hire a PI to follow you around at all times just in case your spouse is a mob hit man or serial killer?
Maleficent Posted August 10, 2013 Posted August 10, 2013 OK, you would feel hurt if you don't cheat and got doubted by your partner. Makes sense. What about those who DO cheat, pretend innocence and act like they didn't cheat, and probably would fake feelings of hurt if that was beneficial to their agenda? Are there ways to distinguish fake hurt made by them from some real hurt feelings? Not my problem...I have never and will never cheat. What others decide to do to ****up their relationship is not my business.
Woggle Posted August 10, 2013 Posted August 10, 2013 Not my problem...I have never and will never cheat. What others decide to do to ****up their relationship is not my business. I have never cheated ever either but I sure had to pay the price for men who do cheat. When my ex cheated on me I was told I was just getting a taste of my own medicine as a man and that women were glad to see the tables turned. If I have to pay the price for other men's sins why should it be any different for women?
Maleficent Posted August 10, 2013 Posted August 10, 2013 OK, you would feel hurt if you don't cheat and got doubted by your partner. Makes sense. What about those who DO cheat, pretend innocence and act like they didn't cheat, and probably would fake feelings of hurt if that was beneficial to their agenda? Are there ways to distinguish fake hurt made by them from some real hurt feelings? There are plenty of men who thought they had a happy relationship and it blew up in their face. If you want to get mad at anybody get mad at the women who betray men's trust. Men get mad at other men all the time for making it bad for all men so why can't women direct that anger towards the women who do betray men's trust. The women who cheat, lie and have kids by their affair partner are why a lot of men have trust issues. Blame them instead of the men who just want to protect themselves. What people do is their business. If a man expects me to cheat because his ex cheated, he needs to deal with his ****. I shouldn't pay for someone else's ****ups. Trust issues should be dealt with. 1
fortyninethousand322 Posted August 10, 2013 Posted August 10, 2013 Well, you might be surprised. My MIL's new boyfriend voluntarily supported the child his wife had with someone else. But, yes, it's wrong to deceive someone into supporting and/or raising a child that's not theirs. I'm glad we agree. So do you hire a PI to follow you around at all times just in case your spouse is a mob hit man or serial killer? No, I'm simply saying that it does happen. So I can imagine why someone with a potential financial incentive (18 years of supporting a child) may want to have assurance. Is it distrustful? Yes. But probably about the same as making your future spouse sign a prenuptial agreement. An argument could be made that it's more distrustful, but not drastically. I'm not in favor of making these things mandatory. But sometimes it's important to take employment as the devil's defense attorney. Have a different perspective, get intrigued by strange ideas and all of that.
Maleficent Posted August 10, 2013 Posted August 10, 2013 I have never cheated ever either but I sure had to pay the price for men who do cheat. When my ex cheated on me I was told I was just getting a taste of my own medicine as a man and that women were glad to see the tables turned. If I have to pay the price for other men's sins why should it be any different for women? *facepalm* 1
Woggle Posted August 10, 2013 Posted August 10, 2013 *facepalm* It's true. I have to pay the price for other men so much that women think I deserve to get cheated on simply because I have a penis but I am wrong for not just blindly trusting anything a woman says?
Maleficent Posted August 10, 2013 Posted August 10, 2013 So you aren't willing to accept other side's perspective and only care about your own? Okaaaaaaaaay. No. I'm not concerned with what other couples 'men or women' do to ruin their relationships. Just because bsome girl cheated in her boyfriend, does NOT mean I will
Maleficent Posted August 10, 2013 Posted August 10, 2013 It's true. I have to pay the price for other men so much that women think I deserve to get cheated on simply because I have a penis but I am wrong for not just blindly trusting anything a woman says? It's a very childish way of reacting to something. I'm sorry this happened to you, but this is something you need to deal with. Not your next girlfriend who may just as well not cheat on you
Woggle Posted August 10, 2013 Posted August 10, 2013 It's a very childish way of reacting to something. I'm sorry this happened to you, but this is something you need to deal with. Not your next girlfriend who may just as well not cheat on you Would you say the same thing about men? Should men also not be paid to pay for what other men did? 1
fortyninethousand322 Posted August 10, 2013 Posted August 10, 2013 No. I'm not concerned with what other couples 'men or women' do to ruin their relationships. Just because bsome girl cheated in her boyfriend, does NOT mean I will Right, but at the same time, people who would cheat on their spouse would say the exact same thing. Unless, of course, we're advocating that we mark adulterous people with the infamous "scarlet letter". Which would be one solution to the "trust" issue for distrustful people. Not a solution I'd endorse though...
Quiet Storm Posted August 10, 2013 Posted August 10, 2013 (edited) As a mother, my own personal feelings of hurt because my husband doubted me, would not be as important as ensuring that my child is loved fully & completely by their father. Men that have doubts will hold back emotionally. If proving paternity gives him peace of mind, then it would benefit our child. I wouldn't want the interaction between father & child to be tainted by thoughts of "I wonder if he's really mine". My kids need their father to thrive. Trust issues between us can be worked out. In a long marriage, there will be ups & downs. Marriages don't usually contain two 100% emotionally healthy & secure people. (shocking, I know). More commonly, they are two people that each have their own insecurities & hang-ups. Two people that have been shaped by their families of origin. Trust issues often have nothing to do with the relationship itself, but can be all about one person's insecurities. Maybe one of the man's good friends wife cheated, maybe his mother cheated on his father, maybe he grew up in a home & had his trust violated time & time again. Sure it would be great if he was unaffected by those things, but that's not realistic. I married my husband for better for worse. He is a good man, but not a perfect man. If he was insecure about our relationship, I would try my best to help him through it. I'd reassure him. If his worries could be calmed with a test, I'd be happy that we have the technology to do that. He would do the same for me. I wouldn't consider my relationship over by a long shot. It would be an issue that we would have to work through, and we'd get through it. It would be just another chapter in the book of our marriage. Edited August 10, 2013 by Quiet Storm
Maleficent Posted August 10, 2013 Posted August 10, 2013 Would you say the same thing about men? Should men also not be paid to pay for what other men did? Well, duh. I realize that the way an ex treated me doesn't mean the next will do the same. 1
Maleficent Posted August 10, 2013 Posted August 10, 2013 Would you say the same thing about men? Should men also not be paid to pay for what other men did? That's only relevant to person/people who is/are in a relationship with you. And if so, why wouldn't you state it to them directly instead of here as it is rather pointless to communicate it to people who you are not (and won't ever be in vast majority of cases) in relationship with? Because I have a right to my opinion and I have the right to voice it. Isn't it what a forum is for?
man_in_the_box Posted August 10, 2013 Posted August 10, 2013 I didn't realize what a great /popcorn thread this is. Keep it up people!
Woggle Posted August 10, 2013 Posted August 10, 2013 I would be okay with a woman asking for an STC test at the start. You can't ask for a paternity test until she is pregnant and that might be a few years into the relationship when that happens.
Quiet Storm Posted August 10, 2013 Posted August 10, 2013 There aren't too many men out there with NO insecurities that are completely unaffected & unscathed by his experiences & circumstances. Men are not robots. When you are emotionally intimate with someone, you learn each others weaknesses and insecurities. You are vulnerable together. If you love him, you'll help him, not chastise him. There are more people in this world with issues, than not. As I tell my kids, the sooner you learn that, the better off you'll be. 1
tbf Posted August 10, 2013 Posted August 10, 2013 More commonly, they are two people that each have their own insecurities & hang-ups.This presumes that all insecurities are equal. They're not. I honestly wouldn't marry a man who was insecure enough to threaten a family and marriage with his trust issues and belief that I would be willing to roll in the gutter sufficient to breed with someone else. Considering how I experienced infidelity in my first marriage, one would think that I too should be questioning my current husband at every turn. But I don't since he's trustworthy, a man with a solid code of honour who lives by them. In other words, some issues like the belief that a partner would stoop to gutter trawling, are absolute deal breakers. 2
Woggle Posted August 10, 2013 Posted August 10, 2013 This presumes that all insecurities are equal. They're not. I honestly wouldn't marry a man who was insecure enough to threaten a family and marriage with his trust issues and belief that I would be willing to roll in the gutter sufficient to breed with someone else. Considering how I experienced infidelity in my first marriage, one would think that I too should be questioning my current husband at every turn. But I don't since he's trustworthy, a man with a solid code of honour who lives by them. In other words, some issues like the belief that a partner would stoop to gutter trawling, are absolute deal breakers. You never get the slightest urge to snoop on him?
Revolver Posted August 10, 2013 Posted August 10, 2013 If you have nothing to hide I honestly don't see a problem with this. Many people who don't do drugs get drug tested at their jobs but since they dot do them they nothing to worry about 1
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