fortyninethousand322 Posted August 9, 2013 Posted August 9, 2013 I have a question, has it ever occurred to anyone to ask their wife or girlfriend if the baby wasn't her's? That would always be my first suspicion...
New User Posted August 9, 2013 Posted August 9, 2013 I have an idea. Once you get your gf or wife pregnant, ask for a paternity test and come back here and tell us how it went. Emotional meltdown. Accusation of lack of trust. Disbelief that anyone dare suggest there was any possibility of another man being the father. Threats to end the relationship unless request was dropped. Oh, and negative results. Not me, but one of the other Soldiers in my unit. She counted on him not noticing that the math was off for him to be the father.
somedude81 Posted August 9, 2013 Posted August 9, 2013 How on Earth could you pretend it's not about trust? It's completely about trust. Whether you are wrong not to trust the mother of your baby, or want reassurance, that's a different question (and a mildly interesting one). But don't pretend it's not about trust.... That denial kills your argument. A lot more than you think. A quality paternity test--one that will hold up in court--easily costs a few hundred dollars. The drug store versions aren't properly certified and are considered too unreliable; no hospital would use a non-certified lab to run their genetic tests. So who exactly is paying for all those tests? Cost of birth is already astronomical. You want to add another $500 to each patient's medical bill?!? On a personal note, if my husband asked for a paternity test, I would be hurt and concerned. In the same manner I would be if he asked to see my cell phone or read my private emails. Or he would be, if I decided to follow him out to a "guy's night out" just to "make sure" he wasn't being unfaithful. Bottom line: I would agree to it, sure, but I would take it as an indication that there is a deep lack of trust in our relationship. Something that would be way more fun would be to run a 23andMe (or similar) DNA microarray on all three of us. Seeing how our different genetic variants were passed on to our child--and having a chance to talk about what that might mean for our baby's future--would be seriously neat. And, I suppose, you could notice pretty easily if many of the variants weren't following a Mendelian pattern of inheritance (i.e., the baby probably isn't ours/his). If you gave birth at a hospital that told you it performed mandatory routine paternity tests, would you protest and complain?
sweetjasmine Posted August 9, 2013 Posted August 9, 2013 And how many more resources do you think it would take for a hospital to perform a paternity test? For a real DNA test (and not one of the unreliable ones you can get at WalMart for $20)? Probably around $200-500. And, yes, that's a waste of resources. And, again, it's bad medicine to add on unnecessary procedures that have no personal health or public health benefit. If it were mandatory, it would also be done on cases where you have rape victims, IVF patients, women who used anonymous sperm donors, women with partners who had died before the baby was born, etc. How is that in any way related to a hospital performing a routine paternity test? It's not. It's related to people thinking that it's a good idea to demand a paternity test for ABSOLUTELY EVERY pregnancy and that anyone who is hurt by the demand is crazy or guilty of something. 2
somedude81 Posted August 9, 2013 Posted August 9, 2013 I guess I shouldn't be surprised that the women against a routine paternity test are arguing based on emotional states. It's almost as if a hospital told the couple that it will perform a routine paternity and then the woman will start screaming about how her partner doesn't trust her and is accusing her of sleeping around. 1
sweetjasmine Posted August 9, 2013 Posted August 9, 2013 If you gave birth at a hospital that told you it performed mandatory routine paternity tests, would you protest and complain? It's basic medical ethics: patients have the right to refuse any tests or treatments, with a few exceptions (worker's comp, disability, certain mental health cases). In my state, not even HIV testing is mandatory. Health care providers (including primary care physicians) are required to provide you with a form where you indicate whether you accept or decline testing, but they cannot force you to do it. So, yes, I'd decline to have the tests done. I'd also decline to have my baby tested for exposure to crack cocaine for the same reasons. It'd be a waste of time and money. 2
sweetjasmine Posted August 9, 2013 Posted August 9, 2013 I guess I shouldn't be surprised that the women against a routine paternity test are arguing based on emotional states. That's because it's an emotional topic. But I find it cute that you think my argument about it having NO PERSONAL OR PUBLIC HEALTH BENEFIT and it being a WASTE OF RESOURCES is one based on emotion. Are you sure you understand what the word "emotion" means? It's almost as if a hospital told the couple that it will perform a routine paternity and then the woman will start screaming about how her partner doesn't trust her and is accusing her of sleeping around. No, I would say it wasn't necessary and ask to opt-out.
somedude81 Posted August 9, 2013 Posted August 9, 2013 It's basic medical ethics: patients have the right to refuse any tests or treatments, with a few exceptions (worker's comp, disability, certain mental health cases). In my state, not even HIV testing is mandatory. Health care providers (including primary care physicians) are required to provide you with a form where you indicate whether you accept or decline testing, but they cannot force you to do it. So, yes, I'd decline to have the tests done. I'd also decline to have my baby tested for exposure to crack cocaine for the same reasons. It'd be a waste of time and money. And if your husband did want those tests you would accuse him of not trusting you and so on?
somedude81 Posted August 9, 2013 Posted August 9, 2013 Right. Because you are clearly the expert on women. Didn't you also claim that women who like big cocks have something wrong with them? Your hatred of women due to your lack of success with them seethes out in every post and it's actually pretty sad to watch. I don't think paternity is something you'll have to concern yourself with any time soon, SD. ROFL! I make an argument on why there should be routine paternity tests and now I'm being accused of being a misogynist. BTW I had sex with my GF three times yesterday and I'll probably have sex with her again in a few hours
sweetjasmine Posted August 9, 2013 Posted August 9, 2013 And if your husband did want those tests you would accuse him of not trusting you and so on? Yes. Because it would come from a place of lack of trust. He knows me. He knows my history. He knows how I feel about cheating. He knows I'm honest even when lying would personally benefit me. He knows how I feel about children. He has absolutely no reason to suspect cheating. He wants children just as much as I do. If we were to make an effort to get pregnant and succeed, I'd be deeply hurt if he questioned the paternity of the child that HE WANTED. I don't expect you to actually understand any of this. Not until you've felt what it's like to want to have children with somebody you'd trust with your life.
dichotomy Posted August 9, 2013 Posted August 9, 2013 I will put a different twist on this. Let for get "The dad" side of it. I am in the United States. From my readings, in many countries, like England, the use of assisted reproduction using anonymous sperm donors is now illegal. It is still legal in the US, but there is a push to change this. Many folks come to the US these days for a little assisted conception holiday to get around these kinds of things. In those countries the donor MUST be known. Why? Because in those countries they believe it the right of child to know who his DNA father is – what his heritage (cultural, medical, what have you). The donor name has to go on the birth certificate. One result of this new law was that donors…dried up. We can same the same about donor eggs I don't agree with this of course, but okay I get why the whole child's rights thing position. However I think it is a trickey position to take, because then your back with the issue raised here in this long thread - with affairs - then all kids should be tested because they have the right to asbolute knowledge of their origins.
Keenly Posted August 9, 2013 Posted August 9, 2013 The idea that women are so untrustworthy as a whole that paternity tests should be mandatory IS misogynistic. It has nothing to do with whether or not you trust the person. Let me make the analogy of STD tests. When you first start dating some one, and you are getting serious, is it not well within your rights to ask for a test on both of you? Now if you believe it is okay to ask for that, you should just trust him when he tells you he doesn't have anything right? So , the question is, do you want to roll the dice, whether with STDs or paternity, when you can believe what some one is saying , yet still want accurate, objective, third part, scientific proof of one outcome or the other, the yes or the no.
AMusing Posted August 9, 2013 Posted August 9, 2013 If you gave birth at a hospital that told you it performed mandatory routine paternity tests, would you protest and complain? Yeah, of course I would... $500 buys a lot of diapers. I guess I shouldn't be surprised that the women against a routine paternity test are arguing based on emotional states. Uh, my argument against mandatory/routine paternity tests weren't emotional. They were financial and practical. My reaction to MY partner demanding a paternity test would be, admittedly, emotional. But then, as Sweetjasmine said, it's an emotional topic to be told your husband doubts your fidelity. We all react emotionally when confronted with that accusation. Need I remind you that your reaction--to expect your partner to "prove" her fidelity--is equally emotional (i.e. fear driven). 1
Keenly Posted August 9, 2013 Posted August 9, 2013 This is definitely a man / woman thing. A woman has no idea what not knowing if its your kid feels like, because its ALWAYS her kid. Its 100% certainty. We men have to protect ourselves.TThis includes from those we love the most. I'm sorry if you can not understand that, but its how it is.
fortyninethousand322 Posted August 9, 2013 Posted August 9, 2013 This is definitely a man / woman thing. A woman has no idea what not knowing if its your kid feels like, because its ALWAYS her kid. Its 100% certainty. We men have to protect ourselves.TThis includes from those we love the most. I'm sorry if you can not understand that, but its how it is. You never know. Her husband could, without her consent, give her someone else's eggs. Now, that would be an awkward conversation to have. And I'm sure it has happened before...
fortyninethousand322 Posted August 9, 2013 Posted August 9, 2013 Well I guess I should get in the habit of asking my bf when he leaves my house in the morning if he's REALLY going to work, or if there's another woman involved. I mean it's a possibility, right? Do you remember that time when I said if I won the lottery I'd buy a warehouse somewhere and put a basketball hoop, a computer and some gym equipment in it and if I had a girlfriend I'd just tell her I was going to work everyday? That's what I'm envisioning. 1
sweetjasmine Posted August 9, 2013 Posted August 9, 2013 Let me make the analogy of STD tests. When you first start dating some one, and you are getting serious, is it not well within your rights to ask for a test on both of you? Now if you believe it is okay to ask for that, you should just trust him when he tells you he doesn't have anything right? Okay, take your analogy further. You've been married for 10 years, together for a total of, say, 15 years. When you first started dating, you both had a full STD panel. Before getting married, you had another one because the county clerk's office recommended it, and you thought it'd be best to be safe. After 10 years of marital sex without condoms, your wife comes up to you out of the blue one day and says, "Keenly, I demand you come with me to the doctor right now to get an STD panel." Would you think she was just trying to be safe? Or would you think she suspected you of cheating? Would you feel like she was putting you on the defensive, making you PROVE that you weren't cheating on her?
AMusing Posted August 9, 2013 Posted August 9, 2013 Let me make the analogy of STD tests. Someone can honestly believe he doesn't have an STD when he really is infected. A woman can't honestly believe she's been faithful, when in fact she hasn't, so your analogy is flawed from the start. But, ok, if you want to go the STD analogy route, let's make it a bit more applicable. To do so, we can't look at a new sexual partner, since the trust level and commitment is completely different with a new partner than it is with someone you've been in a loving, committed relationship with for multiple years. So, would you be offended/concerned if, out of nowhere, without you having done ANYTHING to raise suspicion, your wife demanded you get a full STD screening? You don't think you would feel at all offended in her lack of trust in you? Now, what if that test was extremely expensive? Would you be at all bothered that you have to spend so much money, just to relieve your wife's totally unfounded fears?
AMusing Posted August 9, 2013 Posted August 9, 2013 Okay, take your analogy further. Great minds think alike!
aussietigerwolf Posted August 9, 2013 Posted August 9, 2013 If my man had doubts about the paternity of our child (and I had been faithful) I would be very very sad. I would understand his position, or try to since it's an insulting accusation. But I would grant him the paternity test. I think the relationship wouldn't survive this huge breach of trust however. this would be my stance...
Woggle Posted August 9, 2013 Posted August 9, 2013 A hospital should not have the right to force a test but if the man is to pay a dime in support he should have the right to know that child is his. Who here would oppose that?
Woggle Posted August 9, 2013 Posted August 9, 2013 Also OT but do people here think it's fair what happens when my friend takes his kid to the park? One time he went to pick her up at school and the teacher was a substitute and he was accused of trying to kidnap her. Is this fair to people? Fathers have to deal with this stuff yet it is wrong for a father to want to know if a child is his?
BradJacobs Posted August 9, 2013 Posted August 9, 2013 The idea that women are so untrustworthy as a whole that paternity tests should be mandatory IS misogynistic. The idea that a man's liability for child support is determined as to whether he was married at the time the child was born is even more preposterous and sexual discrimination. If your wife got knocked up while having an affair, the baby is clearly not yours but you thought all along that it was, in some states the husband is on the hook for life unless the biological father legally takes over the responsibilities for his child. Most family courts consider ANY child to be a child of the marriage. What if the biological father can't be found? The husband at time of birth is presumed to be the father and must legally support the child for the welfare of said child, not the man who got duped into supporting a kid that wasn't his own. Try that one on for size and see how it fits. Men get f*cked in family court. It's ridiculous. 2
Woggle Posted August 9, 2013 Posted August 9, 2013 I understand why a woman who is trustworthy would feel offended if the man she loves doesn't trust her but I wish women show a little empathy for the position men find themselves in with this issue? Can't you at least understand a little bit why we feel the way we do even if you don't agree. 1
Woggle Posted August 9, 2013 Posted August 9, 2013 I understand why a man would request a paternity test if the situation was questionable, absolutely. What I can't get behind is this silly notion that it's such a rampant problem that every single baby born should automatically be tested for its DNA. I don't think it is most women but a lot of men have the attitude that most modern women are not to be trusted. Right or wrong that really is how a lot of men feel. There are many women who also feel that most men are cheating dogs so shouldn't a man do what he can to prove her wrong also?
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