Is OLD the way to find a GF for a guy w. a crazy schedule?

[Atem]

Hi everyone,

 

So here's a question to you - should I go for OLD to find a girlfriend?

 

Background: I'm a consultant and have what you'd call a ****ed up schedule. Now, this has messed with my dating life quite a bit and while I didnt use to mind since I wasnt out for anything serious, ay 28, I do find myself longing for a partner much more than for a good ****....

 

So, again, any suggestions for me re: how to find a girlfriend?

 

I'm not looking to rush it and I'm not looking to fall for the first woman that comes around. I am pretty damn picky, so this won't be an issue.

However, actually finding the time to meet girls is and I kinda doubt that the girls who hang out in DC bars/night clubs on weekends would make good girlfriend material...

 

I know this is a bit of an odd question but I'd love to get some input.

 

thx!

[dasein]

If you are handsome, 6' or taller, in excellent shape, have a high income, OLD will be a slam dunk for you, even in one of the most materialistic dating pools in the country.

 

If you don't meet all those criteria, and I mean all of them, you will have to work at it, learn the ropes, but it is still very doable.

 

If you are an average guy, 5'10" or shorter, not above average in looks, moderate income, it will be difficult, very frustrating, but still doable. You will have to put some real work into it, but hey, less than going out til all hours several nights a week.

 

If you are 5'8" or shorter, or not in best shape, a 6 or below in looks, you are likely better off meeting women out through cultivating a social network of couples who have parties with single women.

 

Good luck.

[turt]

You'll end up spending much more time with online dating than meeting people in real life unless you're really lucky! If you want to spend time talking to people/meeting people without much of an outcome... try it out.

[Atem]

If you are handsome, 6' or taller, in excellent shape, have a high income, OLD will be a slam dunk for you, even in one of the most materialistic dating pools in the country.

 

If you don't meet all those criteria, and I mean all of them, you will have to work at it, learn the ropes, but it is still very doable.

 

If you are an average guy, 5'10" or shorter, not above average in looks, moderate income, it will be difficult, very frustrating, but still doable. You will have to put some real work into it, but hey, less than going out til all hours several nights a week.

 

If you are 5'8" or shorter, or not in best shape, a 6 or below in looks, you are likely better off meeting women out through cultivating a social network of couples who have parties with single women.

 

Good luck.

 

Thx for the response.

 

So, here are my stats:

 

age: 28

height: 6'2

body type: athletic (visible six pack & muscle striations)

income: 6 figures

ethnicity: caucasian, originally from Western Europe

location: DC

 

So, based on that, I should be ok, right?

 

I mean, I've tried OLD in the past and while I've gotten quite a few dates out of it, not even one was GF material...

 

Any advice on how to tweak my profile/pics/anything else in order to attract GF-material women?

 

I'm really, really not looking just for hookups. I can get those by RLD easily enough.

 

thx again

[Atem]

You'll end up spending much more time with online dating than meeting people in real life unless you're really lucky! If you want to spend time talking to people/meeting people without much of an outcome... try it out.

 

Hm - so what else would you suggest?

 

I'm planning to return to grad school fairly soon, so should I just put the GF thing on the backburner until then?

 

Obviously I dont want to waste my time with OLD (Ive tried it before and the girls I met through there were not GF material) but then again it does seem like the most direct time-effective way to meet girls.

[Ninjainpajamas]

With your stats you are pretty much "ideal" for OLD, all you need is good/above average looks and you'll almost do just as well as an average looking woman.

 

Otherwise women will be looking for you being "intelligent" or artistic, those are the two hot flavors in OLD dating, if you can show you're well-traveled and cultured, even better.

 

As far as relationship material that'll be your job to determine, since you'll have the luxury of options just read through profiles you feel you connect with, and because of your stats you'll have a shot...so it's really up to you to pursue the women you are interested in and looking for, you're not going to have to go out there like the average job and articulate your profile well and send these crafty messages, it'll be pretty straight-forward for you.

 

As far as relationship material, my question is why are you not finding women that are relationship material? what is it that they don't have in common with you or what you are looking for?

 

That is what those women are going to want to know, and you need to know so that you know what to look for, otherwise you shouldn't have that hard of a time finding a woman that is "relationship material"...that's going to come down to a level of picky that you have created, so you're going to have include that in your profile and do the hunting yourself as well.

 

To be honest, you don't sound like the guy you are describing and I question the quality of your character/personality...which I can see turning off women who you might pursue that have options themselves and may be a lot more pickier than the average girl just chasing off mr good-on-paper.

[Atem]

With your stats you are pretty much "ideal" for OLD, all you need is good/above average looks and you'll almost do just as well as an average looking woman.

 

Otherwise women will be looking for you being "intelligent" or artistic, those are the two hot flavors in OLD dating, if you can show you're well-traveled and cultured, even better.

 

As far as relationship material that'll be your job to determine, since you'll have the luxury of options just read through profiles you feel you connect with, and because of your stats you'll have a shot...so it's really up to you to pursue the women you are interested in and looking for, you're not going to have to go out there like the average job and articulate your profile well and send these crafty messages, it'll be pretty straight-forward for you.

 

As far as relationship material, my question is why are you not finding women that are relationship material? what is it that they don't have in common with you or what you are looking for?

 

That is what those women are going to want to know, and you need to know so that you know what to look for, otherwise you shouldn't have that hard of a time finding a woman that is "relationship material"...that's going to come down to a level of picky that you have created, so you're going to have include that in your profile and do the hunting yourself as well.

 

To be honest, you don't sound like the guy you are describing and I question the quality of your character/personality...which I can see turning off women who you might pursue that have options themselves and may be a lot more pickier than the average girl just chasing off mr good-on-paper.

 

That last paragraph is interesting to me - how do I sound like (honestly)?

 

I guess that you can call what I'm looking for "seriousness". Let me describe this - obviously I don't expect any big commitments super quickly but, after a couple of dates, I want to see initiation from the girl's end as well. Obviously a guy has to lead at first but after 2-3 dates - esp. if they go well - I'd like the mutual interest to kick in. Usually the girls I meet fall into 2 buckets - way too much into me (almost to a stalker level) or just too flaky for me.

 

Then I look for someone I can talk to about serious topics. And no, I dont mean about the economy or politics but about fundamental things in life - i.e. what do you want to do (not just career-wise), what drives you, what's your key goal...etc. As a goal-oriented person, I always have to "chase" something - I cant just sit around, be content and just "live" life. Unfortunately, most girl that I meet do. All they give a damn about is hanging out w friends, going to beaches, eating in nice restaurants, etc.

I want someone with whom I can pursue a goal - can be as trivial as prepping for a marathon or smth like that...

 

A just opened another thread a few days ago talking about a girl I went out with on 4 dates. all of them went very very well and she was totally into me - texted often, researched stuff we talked about,...etc.

Then, she went on a 1-week vacation and turned all cold afterwards. Not sure why but it happened and was a major turnoff for me.

 

Anyway - would be interested to know what I sounds like in your opinion because maybe Im communicating the wrong things without knowing it.

[dasein]

I mean, I've tried OLD in the past and while I've gotten quite a few dates out of it, not even one was GF material...

 

Your stats are good enough such that you should be able to find quality relatively easily. You will need to be proactive and carefully read profiles, lots of them, to screen some bad bets out. At your age I would look at only 25 and older to get rid of the party girls.

 

You can find pretty much anything you want, and it takes little time compared to going out all the time. The way I do it is to use match, scan 500 or so profiles within 50 miles, and add to favorites list til I have 30 or so. Then mail the top ten. Sounds time consuming, but if you are fast on the keys, doesn't take that long. You can set up enough prospects to process in a half weekend day or one weekday evening. Short three point personalised emails, ask for # second mail and give yours "if you aren't comfortable giving out your number yet." Try to meet asap and put a sentence in your profile about not wanting penpals but to meet, should get the ball rolling faster. Don't do coffee dates, at least go to a fashionable bar for a drink and appetizers. Sit next to each other at the bar. Keep first dates to 3 hours max, preferably shorter. Look for a GF, not just to get laid, or you will end up diluting your efforts and getting bogged down.

 

One thing, because of affirmative action, there are scores of idiots out there who are employed way beyond their actual intelligence and competence, particularly in govt, so don't be automatically snowed by a fancy diploma and high profile job. Dig a bit deeper. I found more resume' and diploma liars, generally overemployed, overcompensated dingbats, than weight liars. The smart ones stick out after awhile.

 

Enough for one post, maybe others can add more.

[Ninjainpajamas]

That last paragraph is interesting to me - how do I sound like (honestly)?

 

My impression is you remind me of the type of women who expects to basically reel in the ideal "type of man" or quality of man they are looking for. They feel like a pretty good package with a lot to offer, but when you date them or go out, there's some critical part that's missing in their personality/sensitivity/communication...on paper they sound great (personally I could care less), but in person the chemistry and connection may be a bit shaky or unappealing, especially if there's a sense of entitlement and lack of self-awareness that actually shows them to be rather selfish and incompetent in their own little self-made bubble.

 

When they talk they can be critical and observant about everyone else, but when they talk about themselves, they see themselves as pretty much perfect as whole, with a few minor tweaks here and there.

 

Also, communication is on the back-burner and everything else takes precedence...It's a long-list wish list that doesn't appear to offer a lot in return from an outside view in relationship/romantic terms, but in their own eyes they choose to twist the perspective that is convenient to their views and unaware of what another person may need.

I guess that you can call what I'm looking for "seriousness". Let me describe this - obviously I don't expect any big commitments super quickly but, after a couple of dates, I want to see initiation from the girl's end as well. Obviously a guy has to lead at first but after 2-3 dates - esp. if they go well - I'd like the mutual interest to kick in. Usually the girls I meet fall into 2 buckets - way too much into me (almost to a stalker level) or just too flaky for me.

 

It seems above all else you're looking for convenience and compliance to what you are ultimately seeking, which with your unavailable schedule..how do you expect a woman to build a relationship and view you as a potential partner? Women need more than stats, they also need you to be there and available, especially in the beginning to develop something first with you.

 

As far as initiating on the woman's part, it depends on what chemistry or interest is there...way too much into you is typically going to be infatuation/obsessiveness over your superficial stats/qualities (you have a lot of "potential"), the ones that are too flaky for you might just be unreliable or moderately interested, they may also be multi-dating or keeping their options open as many women do.

Then I look for someone I can talk to about serious topics. And no, I dont mean about the economy or politics but about fundamental things in life - i.e. what do you want to do (not just career-wise), what drives you, what's your key goal...etc. As a goal-oriented person, I always have to "chase" something - I cant just sit around, be content and just "live" life. Unfortunately, most girl that I meet do. All they give a damn about is hanging out w friends, going to beaches, eating in nice restaurants, etc.

I want someone with whom I can pursue a goal - can be as trivial as prepping for a marathon or smth like that...

 

Plenty of women fall into your criteria, they should typically be more educated, driven and passionate about their goals in their profiles...there are a lot of women in OLD that are very articulate, conversational and have a wide variety of goals to achieve.

 

With your stats it is achievable however you may be very likely lacking in other departments, you might not have built those other qualities within yourself very well...maybe because in the past or to get laid you never had to think much about it.

A just opened another thread a few days ago talking about a girl I went out with on 4 dates. all of them went very very well and she was totally into me - texted often, researched stuff we talked about,...etc.

Then, she went on a 1-week vacation and turned all cold afterwards. Not sure why but it happened and was a major turnoff for me.

 

Anyway - would be interested to know what I sounds like in your opinion because maybe Im communicating the wrong things without knowing it.

 

I don't know what kind of dates you are having and what level of interaction you are experiencing, as well as chemistry and reciprocation towards your romantic interest but that girl doesn't sound like she was very interested and she could have been "having her fun" on vacation and met someone else in the process or started dating someone else.

 

I suspect that communication is not one of your strong suits, and your ability to gauge a woman's interest in the dating world is lacking...you should definitely do more to express yourself and communicate your thoughts and feelings so women can get on the same page, otherwise they're just not feeling that spark.

 

If you're having this level of difficulty with "relationship material" however able to sleep with women regularly or easily, there is likely something severely lacking in what you bring to the table because you should have the option for a relationship or at least good candidates from the women you are romantically involved with.

Edited August 8, 2013 by Ninjainpajamas

[sillyanswer]

So here's a question to you - should I go for OLD to find a girlfriend?

 

I see that you are tall... that helps!

 

It seems that this is about your crazy schedule...

 

Don't mistake OLD for a time-saving method of getting a date (or a gf). But, if you have time and just that it's in a funny schedule then it might work... you can be browsing profiles and sending messages in your free time whenever that is.

 

At some point you still need time to go on dates... so you'll still need some 'traditional' date time in your crazy schedule. You'll need some evenings and/or weekends free at some point.

[Atem]

Your stats are good enough such that you should be able to find quality relatively easily. You will need to be proactive and carefully read profiles, lots of them, to screen some bad bets out. At your age I would look at only 25 and older to get rid of the party girls.

 

You can find pretty much anything you want, and it takes little time compared to going out all the time. The way I do it is to use match, scan 500 or so profiles within 50 miles, and add to favorites list til I have 30 or so. Then mail the top ten. Sounds time consuming, but if you are fast on the keys, doesn't take that long. You can set up enough prospects to process in a half weekend day or one weekday evening. Short three point personalised emails, ask for # second mail and give yours "if you aren't comfortable giving out your number yet." Try to meet asap and put a sentence in your profile about not wanting penpals but to meet, should get the ball rolling faster. Don't do coffee dates, at least go to a fashionable bar for a drink and appetizers. Sit next to each other at the bar. Keep first dates to 3 hours max, preferably shorter. Look for a GF, not just to get laid, or you will end up diluting your efforts and getting bogged down.

 

One thing, because of affirmative action, there are scores of idiots out there who are employed way beyond their actual intelligence and competence, particularly in govt, so don't be automatically snowed by a fancy diploma and high profile job. Dig a bit deeper. I found more resume' and diploma liars, generally overemployed, overcompensated dingbats, than weight liars. The smart ones stick out after awhile.

 

Enough for one post, maybe others can add more.

 

Appreciate the input - I'll re-open my profile today and will make it clear that I'm not looking for a fling.

 

If past experience is any gauge for this, I should be able to get enough dates out of this. The question is whether they'll be relationship material (I'll elaborate more in my response to ninja).

 

One question though - why not coffee dates as first line? There's this great European café in DC that serves real Austrian coffee. It is an upscale place, so it raises eyebrows, yet it is not even that expensive. I usually take my first dates there for a typical Austrian "Wiener Melange" coffee. It is not quite next to the metro, so the walk to the place, the stay there, and the walk back usually take 2-3 hours, which fits the ideal first date timeframe (like you, I've discovered that too much time spent on the first date doesn't seem to work).

 

thx

[Atem]

That last paragraph is interesting to me - how do I sound like (honestly)?

 

My impression is you remind me of the type of women who expects to basically reel in the ideal "type of man" or quality of man they are looking for. They feel like a pretty good package with a lot to offer, but when you date them or go out, there's some critical part that's missing in their personality/sensitivity/communication...on paper they sound great (personally I could care less), but in person the chemistry and connection may be a bit shaky or unappealing, especially if there's a sense of entitlement and lack of self-awareness that actually shows them to be rather selfish and incompetent in their own little self-made bubble.

 

When they talk they can be critical and observant about everyone else, but when they talk about themselves, they see themselves as pretty much perfect as whole, with a few minor tweaks here and there.

 

Also, communication is on the back-burner and everything else takes precedence...It's a long-list wish list that doesn't appear to offer a lot in return from an outside view in relationship/romantic terms, but in their own eyes they choose to twist the perspective that is convenient to their views and unaware of what another person may need.

 

I guess that you can call what I'm looking for "seriousness". Let me describe this - obviously I don't expect any big commitments super quickly but, after a couple of dates, I want to see initiation from the girl's end as well. Obviously a guy has to lead at first but after 2-3 dates - esp. if they go well - I'd like the mutual interest to kick in. Usually the girls I meet fall into 2 buckets - way too much into me (almost to a stalker level) or just too flaky for me.

 

It seems above all else you're looking for convenience and compliance to what you are ultimately seeking, which with your unavailable schedule..how do you expect a woman to build a relationship and view you as a potential partner? Women need more than stats, they also need you to be there and available, especially in the beginning to develop something first with you.

 

As far as initiating on the woman's part, it depends on what chemistry or interest is there...way too much into you is typically going to be infatuation/obsessiveness over your superficial stats/qualities (you have a lot of "potential"), the ones that are too flaky for you might just be unreliable or moderately interested, they may also be multi-dating or keeping their options open as many women do.

 

Then I look for someone I can talk to about serious topics. And no, I dont mean about the economy or politics but about fundamental things in life - i.e. what do you want to do (not just career-wise), what drives you, what's your key goal...etc. As a goal-oriented person, I always have to "chase" something - I cant just sit around, be content and just "live" life. Unfortunately, most girl that I meet do. All they give a damn about is hanging out w friends, going to beaches, eating in nice restaurants, etc.

I want someone with whom I can pursue a goal - can be as trivial as prepping for a marathon or smth like that...

 

Plenty of women fall into your criteria, they should typically be more educated, driven and passionate about their goals in their profiles...there are a lot of women in OLD that are very articulate, conversational and have a wide variety of goals to achieve.

 

With your stats it is achievable however you may be very likely lacking in other departments, you might not have built those other qualities within yourself very well...maybe because in the past or to get laid you never had to think much about it.

 

A just opened another thread a few days ago talking about a girl I went out with on 4 dates. all of them went very very well and she was totally into me - texted often, researched stuff we talked about,...etc.

Then, she went on a 1-week vacation and turned all cold afterwards. Not sure why but it happened and was a major turnoff for me.

 

Anyway - would be interested to know what I sounds like in your opinion because maybe Im communicating the wrong things without knowing it.

 

I don't know what kind of dates you are having and what level of interaction you are experiencing, as well as chemistry and reciprocation towards your romantic interest but that girl doesn't sound like she was very interested and she could have been "having her fun" on vacation and met someone else in the process or started dating someone else.

 

I suspect that communication is not one of your strong suits, and your ability to gauge a woman's interest in the dating world is lacking...you should definitely do more to express yourself and communicate your thoughts and feelings so women can get on the same page, otherwise they're just not feeling that spark.

 

If you're having this level of difficulty with "relationship material" however able to sleep with women regularly or easily, there is likely something severely lacking in what you bring to the table because you should have the option for a relationship or at least good candidates from the women you are romantically involved with.

 

So, first off, thx for the input and the long post.

 

To summarize (and correct me if I got any of your points wrong please), you think that I'm a pretty good package BUT that I seem to think that, because of that, everything should revolve around me and every girl I date should chase me and adapt to my schedule. Because of that, and also because I'm much more used to sleep around, I suck at communicating my fondness of the girl I'm dating, which results in the "relationship" to fizzle out after the first few dates. Is this about right?

 

Well, maybe there's some truth to that. I do think that I have a lot to offer and, while I don't think that I'm arrogant, I do admit that I'm looking for a top package as well - tiny things piss me off and I often end up dropping a girl because of them.

 

Also, I do not give many compliments and/or express too much affection until well into the dating game (dates 5+) because I'm still evaluating. Let me give you the girl that I mentioned as an example again, since a. it happened recently and b. I've already talked about her. I'll be specific:

 

 

So, on date 1, she seemed very shy/jittery (i.e. obviously liking me) and I played it cool. 3-hour long coffee date at the Austrian café in DC that I mentioned in my previous post. Teased her a bit from time to time but, 90%+ of the time, we just talked about common interests (I'm Austrian, she had studied abroad in Germany...etc.). She was really engaged, eyes fixated on me and I had to make the move out of the café to end the date. Now, in terms of showing affection - I usually hold that back at first - told her that her dress looks nice and, at the end of the date, I touched her back to guide her out the door of the café, to which she responded by immediately "accidentally" touching my arm. We agreed to set up a 2nd date and I let her go with a hug. On the next day, she sends me a text saying that the date was great and that she shouldn't have had so much coffee in the afternoon because she couldn't sleep to well. We joked around a bit about it and then set a second date for the next weekend.

 

Date 2 we went to a museum, then another one of my favorite cafes and then for some sushi. Again, we chatted a lot - no awkward/silent moments - laughed, had fun, etc. At the end of the date, I went in for a goodbye kiss and, again, agreed to set up another date. 1 hour after we part, she sent me a text saying that she was hoping that I was going to do that (kiss her). Again, we text a bit and then she asks me whether I can see her on Wednesday evening (i.e. she doesn't want to wait until the weekend after).

 

Date 3 - my place (since I have a gym in the basement and since I happened to be home on that Wednesday night). We work out (we're both very fit and into it), then we go up, chat, laugh and make out. Well, we make out and touch - no sex of clothes off but it got exciting. At some point she got a bit tense, so I eased off and we just chilled out on my couch and chatted. She was lying in my arms and playing with my hands so she seemed into it. Again, I ended the date and we agreed to meet the next weekend. In fact, she kept asking whether we could see each other soon.

 

Date 4 - weekend comes along, we go see a movie. Then we go to my place and do everything but sex. At first she asked that we not have sex. Then, after some finger action, she kept telling me that she wants me to which I said "next time" ;P A couple of orgasms later, we were lying in my bed and she got all tense and awkward, started mumbling about how she usually doesn't move that fast and how she doesn't want to get too close to me. Then she packed her things and left - but before leaving, she again asked me to confirm that we'll see each other "soon". 1 hour after this she sends me a text saying that all felt ****ing good but that she doesn't want to get too close to me so quickly. I said np - we had fun, so that's that.

 

Then she went on vacation - she didn't have phone access for a week and since I didn't have her email (and she didn't have mine) we could write.

I pinged her the week after when she got back and she seemed happy. In fact, she suggested that we meet on the same day. I was at home that day, so I told her to stop by when she gets done cycling. At 7pm I get a message saying that she slept in and is too sleepy to come over.

 

Since then I asked her out 3 times over a 2-week time period (really tried to make time for her) but all 3 times she happened to have other plans. Coincidence? Maybe, but still annoying.

 

Also, when I asked her out 1 time, she didn't respond until the day off and then, after I asked again, she declined to which I told her to please let me know on time so I can make other plans. Her response to that was "I'm sure that you can fill the empty spot with another one of your girls." Not sure where that came from but ok...

 

Finally, I did try to communicate. I initiated texting quite a few times but it always fizzled out on her end (as opposed to during the first 4 dates, when it was the reverse).

 

I then told her that I wont be calling anymore after 3 rejections. I know we're both busy but I was really trying to make it happen while she didn't make any effort at all. So I told her to be fair. Her response was something like "Ok. I told you that I'm going to the beach. But I do understand since it feels like we haven't seen each other in a long time."

That was about 3 weeks after date 4. Wished her all the best & left it at that.

 

So - here is an example in very much detail. I figure that she just found someone else or didn't want to get serious. Or do you think that I screwed this up somewhere? I know that I'm pretty "cold", so maybe that was it? Or was it the fact that I refused to bang her on date 4? No idea.

 

All I know is that things were going well until she left for vaca and went downhill after.

 

So what do you think - any behavior on my end that you'd call a turn-off?

[hppr]

The short answer I can give about online dating is that most women on there either want a rich man who looks like he fell out of an underwear ad or a drugged-out party animal for a fling. Every now and then (maybe 6months) you will randomly talk to a girl who is actually normal and just wants to meet people but they are rare. For most, regardless of their age, you have to fit into one of the two above extremes.

 

So if you are 6'2, fit and make good money you probably qualify for the first, IE the tall, handsome, well-to-do boyfriend material guy.

 

The be-all, end-all of your dating profile will be the pics. If your pictures make you look like a fun, sexy guy then nothing else matters.

 

Fun, sexy guys have lots of friends, cool hobbies, and a sense of style. You need to convey that in your pics. Partying at the club with rich, well-dressed friends, riding a motorcycle, the 'James Dean' pose slouching in a chair staring off at the horizon.

 

For a description pretty much anything goes as long as your spelling and grammar are up to par and you aren't offensive or insulting. Don't say anything negative whatsoever, like 'trying this for the second time' or 'don't message me if you're ______'. Keep it upbeat - and mysterious.

 

Don't tell them where you work or what you do for a living. Say it's complicated, I work in investing, I'm a consultant so I travel a lot, anything but the truth. That will keep their interest going.

 

Finally until you meet them in real life you will have zero idea what they are really like. So don't get your hopes up, approach it casually and just figure it is a way of getting a '1st date' with someone...nothing more.

[hppr]

So - here is an example in very much detail. I figure that she just found someone else or didn't want to get serious. Or do you think that I screwed this up somewhere? I know that I'm pretty "cold", so maybe that was it? Or was it the fact that I refused to bang her on date 4? No idea.

 

How old was this girl?

[Atem]

How old was this girl?

 

She was 23, pushing 24. why?

 

Thx for the input btw.

[Atem]

Lol - brief update.

 

Just lined up 2 dates thru OKC - 1 with a girl that I messaged, 1 with a girl that messaged me.

 

Well, fwiw, let's see how it goes. They have the looks at least (according to their pics, that is) ;D