Trying friends first..it seems to be working, though now what?

[Babolat]

This is more of a what's working for me with a little bit of "what now" when it comes to dating.

 

I broke up with a wonderful woman over 4 months ago. Since then I have decided "friends first or friends only", and I have told the 5 woman I have hung out with since the break up this.

 

One pushed it and tried to kiss me the 2nd time we hung out, no longer friends. She i sback with her ex now.

 

One has become one of my best friends. We do a lot together and talk a lot.

 

One pushed it, told me all she could think about was sleeping with me (after she announced she had a bf) when we were together. I jokingly said "then lets have sex and get it over with so we can be friends". We still text from time to time though we do not hang out after I told her I could not be "the other man".

 

One I see every couple of weeks for dinner, go to a bar/club to dance/see a band play, been to a baseball game, etc. She has recently started to ask me some dating types of questions so I am not sure with her yet.

 

I am learning sooooo much about myself doing this. What I have found is I am not rushing into a romantic dating relationship, discovering a red flag or an issue for me and then trying to figure it out or resolve it in my head. I don't have to since we are not dating. And I am growing, learnign what I like in a woman, don't like, where I can compromise, etc. And I am having a blast! Hanging out with women is fun!

 

Now, to the "what now". I find two of them very attractive and I am thinking "Hmmmmm". Though, I really value the friendships and I enjoy their company. I am also wondering should I start looking to date now, as in allow myself to date someone, as I feel healthier than ever, though I really like these friendships. And if I do, should I look "outside" these woman...like OLD or other means?

 

Just some thoughts......

[BluEyeL]

Curious why did you break up with a woman who you call "wonderful"? Other than that, yes, 4 months after your break up and after learning about yourself and other women through these interactions, and if you feel ready, go ahead and date. You can use both OLD and live events. I prefer the latter, which was significantly more productive for me, but don't discount OLD either.

[Babolat]

Curious why did you break up with a woman who you call "wonderful"?

 

Good question, and I thought about the use of that word after I posted this. She was, and is, a wonderful woman, we simply had lifestyle differences.

[Babolat]

So for the women here; if in a case like mine where I stated "friends only", yet you were attracted to the man, would you accept the friends only invitation?

 

And, if you did, thinking there could be more, how would you show that? I am getting signs from some of these women (touching for example) that could be interpreted as "that's just how woman are" or "they are interested in more". Keeping in mind for me it's always been a romantic intertest first. The friends first is new to me. So maybe women behave this way when they are friends with a man?

 

I hear "you are an attractive good looking man", I do not tell them they are attractive, even though they are, as it feels inappropriate. In two cases when dancing they led me out to the dance floor holding hands and did some mild grinding and touching...is this just a woman having fun with a male friend? Is it OK to touch back?

[MrTurk]

You show interest…then withdraw…of course that's going to cause a spark in some women.

 

And some of those women will interpret the friends only as another term for FWB.

[BluEyeL]

So for the women here; if in a case like mine where I stated "friends only", yet you were attracted to the man, would you accept the friends only invitation?

 

And, if you did, thinking there could be more, how would you show that? I am getting signs from some of these women (touching for example) that could be interpreted as "that's just how woman are" or "they are interested in more". Keeping in mind for me it's always been a romantic intertest first. The friends first is new to me. So maybe women behave this way when they are friends with a man?

 

I hear "you are an attractive good looking man", I do not tell them they are attractive, even though they are, as it feels inappropriate. In two cases when dancing they led me out to the dance floor holding hands and did some mild grinding and touching...is this just a woman having fun with a male friend? Is it OK to touch back?

I guess every woman is different and it's hard to say unless one is in the exact situation. But in general, I might still accept friends only even if I'm mildly attracted to the guy. For me attraction grows if the guy shows interest in me, otherwise it just dies because I'll move my (romantic) attention to others that I perceive as more interested. But not everyone is like me a lot of women set their sights on a guy even if he doesn't show too much interest. If they touch you and all that you described, I think it's a sign of interest. Saying that you are an attractive man doesn't necessarily mean interest. I'd say that to a male friend because I'd feel safe to say it to him, being clear that we do not have any romantic feelings for each other. Normally if interested, and if the woman touches and gives some green light with body language, I'd expect the man to follow up with a move, touching is OK, but I'd expect then more, like asking me out on a "date" as more than "friends". In which case, probably the "only friendship" will end (good or bad). So I'd say, why complicate all this? If you are interested in one of those women, go ahead and let her know.

[wildtrac77]

So for the women here; if in a case like mine where I stated "friends only", yet you were attracted to the man, would you accept the friends only invitation?

 

And, if you did, thinking there could be more, how would you show that? I am getting signs from some of these women (touching for example) that could be interpreted as "that's just how woman are" or "they are interested in more". Keeping in mind for me it's always been a romantic intertest first. The friends first is new to me. So maybe women behave this way when they are friends with a man?

 

I hear "you are an attractive good looking man", I do not tell them they are attractive, even though they are, as it feels inappropriate. In two cases when dancing they led me out to the dance floor holding hands and did some mild grinding and touching...is this just a woman having fun with a male friend? Is it OK to touch back?

 

Because in a women's eye your playing hard to get it will spark an intrest in them.. ( same as if a guy goes in a bar with a ring on his wedding finger and he will have some women giving him the eye but if he had gone in without the ring she wouldn't be intrested!!

 

Basically this friends first means you are a challenge to these women and they want to see if they can get you..and when they get you they will lose intrest!!

 

Best thing you can do is start off as friends... if you like one then start flirting/ take more of an intrest in her and go from there.... if she responds great if not then move on..

 

Prob you got is don't be like a friend for too long if your intrested in dating a girl as if you stay friends and don't ramp up the flirting/ make your feelings clear within the first few date's you will end up friendzoned by her for sure!!

[Babolat]

I guess every woman is different and it's hard to say unless one is in the exact situation. But in general, I might still accept friends only even if I'm mildly attracted to the guy. For me attraction grows if the guy shows interest in me, otherwise it just dies because I'll move my (romantic) attention to others that I perceive as more interested. But not everyone is like me a lot of women set their sights on a guy even if he doesn't show too much interest. If they touch you and all that you described, I think it's a sign of interest. Saying that you are an attractive man doesn't necessarily mean interest. I'd say that to a male friend because I'd feel safe to say it to him, being clear that we do not have any romantic feelings for each other. Normally if interested, and if the woman touches and gives some green light with body language, I'd expect the man to follow up with a move, touching is OK, but I'd expect then more, like asking me out on a "date" as more than "friends". In which case, probably the "only friendship" will end (good or bad). So I'd say, why complicate all this? If you are interested in one of those women, go ahead and let her know.

 

Makes sense, though....

 

I am the one who said friends first, they agreed, that's what they wanted too. In one case the women told me she was taking a dating break, which to me is "friends only".

 

So when there is touching or closeness I do not respond. I want to, it's natural, I am attracted to them, but I don't. I even went so far as to tell one of the girls I will behave myself on the dance floor when she invited me to go dancing. She said something like "let your hands do what they want to do". The next day she texted me and said "you were well behaved".

 

I guess in a way I am a little confused as I am finding myself attracted to two of these women, I want to keep the friendship as I enjoy our friendship. It's very cool to have female friends; something new to me. If I was not seeing signs from them I would probably not be thinking about this.

[Babolat]

Because in a women's eye your playing hard to get it will spark an intrest in them.. ( same as if a guy goes in a bar with a ring on his wedding finger and he will have some women giving him the eye but if he had gone in without the ring she wouldn't be intrested!!

 

Basically this friends first means you are a challenge to these women and they want to see if they can get you..and when they get you they will lose intrest!!

 

Best thing you can do is start off as friends... if you like one then start flirting/ take more of an intrest in her and go from there.... if she responds great if not then move on..

 

Prob you got is don't be like a friend for too long if your intrested in dating a girl as if you stay friends and don't ramp up the flirting/ make your feelings clear within the first few date's you will end up friendzoned by her for sure!!

I am OK with friendzone. I can start to look in other areas for someone to date.

 

I am curous though to see if there could be more with either of them.

[New User]

I am OK with friendzone. I can start to look in other areas for someone to date.

 

I am curous though to see if there could be more with either of them.

 

The only thing that I'd say is that if you do try for more than friendship it is unlikely IME that you'll be able to go back to just being friends if it doesn't work out.

 

As to the flirting/dancing/grinding thing..... I'd just key off of her and react accordingly. It doesn't really mean much. I have some female friends that I dance with and I don't think too much of grinding or slapping their a$$ on the dance floor- but I'm a pretty physical guy by nature. If it feels natural do it. If she feels uncomfortable at any point she'll let you know.

[wildtrac77]

I am OK with friendzone. I can start to look in other areas for someone to date.

 

I am curous though to see if there could be more with either of them.

 

Above is just why this being friends first thing so damn complicated... you need to do something like a meal out / a drink with these women and also watch them around other male friends before you make your move... if she flirts with all her male friends like you then she see's you as a friend but the key will be if she flirts with you or not at the meal/ a drink... if she starts flirting then flirt back..

[Lansing]

I told a girl I just wanted to be friends with her when I got her number,.

 

First time we went out it became really flirty... I was like "f-this" and we ended up making out at her house after our date. Dated for a little over a month but realized she wasn't the type of person I wanted to date (she was really negative about her life at that point/etc). I could have been friends with her after but she didn't want to.

 

I have had girls confess their interest in me 2 years after meeting them. (I wasn't interested either time). They turned really bitter when I rejected them.

 

My best situation for "friends" to "lovers" was when it just happened. We started to cuddle on the sofa (like, not traditional cuddling but legs intertwined/etc) and eventually we kissed and it lead to dating.. That was after knowing her for like 2 years.

[RedRobin]

Interestingly... when a guy tells me he just wants to be friends, I figure that's that.

 

Even if I were attracted to him, I'd be able to put it out of my mind pretty quick. Probably comes with working around all men. I've had my share of little crushes that I got over.

 

Shoot, even the dancing thing wouldn't make me budge after a guy told me he wanted to be just friends. Probably because I dance a lot. You get used to being touched, and in a non-sexual way. At that point, you'd have to hit me over the head with a brick to convince me you had more than friends feelings for me.

 

It's when a guy tells me he has feelings for me (especially if he doesn't know me that well), that I have a hard time believing him and feel the need to test it... not the other way around.

 

Not sure what to tell you about your lady friends. If you want to try your hand at OLD, it is generally a place where you can be anonymous and experimental... if you leaned that way... or were thinking of leaning that way...

 

On the other hand, it is a bit more risky. You might have more luck doing Meetups or something like that. How did you meet the women you mention above?

Edited August 7, 2013 by RedRobin

[New User]

Interestingly... when a guy tells me he just wants to be friends, I figure that's that.

 

Even if I were attracted to him, I'd be able to put it out of my mind pretty quick. Probably comes with working around all men. I've had my share of little crushes that I got over.

 

Shoot, even the dancing thing wouldn't make me budge after a guy told me he wanted to be just friends. Probably because I dance a lot. You get used to being touched, and in a non-sexual way. At that point, you'd have to hit me over the head with a brick to convince me you had more than friends feelings for me.

 

It's when a guy tells me he has feelings for me (especially if he doesn't know me that well), that I have a hard time believing him and feel the need to test it... not the other way around.

 

Not sure what to tell you about your lady friends. If you want to try your hand at OLD, it is generally a place where you can be anonymous and experimental... if you leaned that way... or were thinking of leaning that way...

 

On the other hand, it is a bit more risky. You might have more luck doing Meetups or something like that. How did you meet the women you mention above?

 

 

I don't think that most people are wired that way- not saying that there's anything wrong with it, just that I don't think most people have the ability to simply turn off amorous feelings and replace them with friendly ones. I've had female friends that crushed on me for years- the opposite doesn't hold true simply because if a gal I'm interested in romantically doesn't feel the same way, I don't see any point in continuing the relationship on a different level than I really want. I've had two exceptions where I stayed very casual friends with them because they were in the same social circle. Oddly, in both of those cases at some point in the future they expressed interest- me being kinda thick headed about these things I went along with it. It didn't end well in either case and I'm no longer friends with either of them.

[Phoe]

So for the women here; if in a case like mine where I stated "friends only", yet you were attracted to the man, would you accept the friends only invitation?

 

I probably would not.

 

 

I would be pretty hesitant, because I would know at that point it would be nothing but pain for me.

[Babolat]

Above is just why this being friends first thing so damn complicated... you need to do something like a meal out / a drink with these women and also watch them around other male friends before you make your move... if she flirts with all her male friends like you then she see's you as a friend but the key will be if she flirts with you or not at the meal/ a drink... if she starts flirting then flirt back..

 

I have done meals out, dinners, dancing, bars, concerts, festivals, biking, kayaking....no flirting at all with other men around us. One of the two has a male best friend and I have done things with them together. She does seem "closer" with me then him. He even recently said in front of both us "You two should date...you spend a lot of time together". I waited for her response..she said "Too much drama with dating".

 

This past weekend she commented that all her friends think we are dating, or I am a cover and she is dating someone else.

[Babolat]

How did you meet the women you mention above?

 

She use to date a casual friend of mine 3+ years ago. I was married then. She remembers seeing me at parties with my ex, I don't remember her though.

 

When I separated from my ex everyone kept telling me you need to meet her.

 

I did about a year after my separation at a birthday party for her best friend. We know a lot of the same people and I was invited to the party. We talked, that was about it.

 

About 6 months ago, 2 weeks in a row I was out for dinner with one of my buds and saw her. The 2nd time she was with a man so I did not approach her, thinking it was a date. She approached me, said she was taking a break from dating, that the man she was with was just a friend.

 

I was dating my ex gf at the time though I was not happy and was ready to end it.

 

I mentioned wanting to learn to mountain bike, she said she rode and would ride with me. I gave her my email address. A couple of days later she emailed me to meet her and her gfs out at a club to see a band. I did. That turned into more and more mountain biking then her inviting me out more with her friends. Mountain biking days turned into dinner sometimes. We have gone to concerts together, with others, not alone. With the exception of mountain biking and kayaking once where I went to her house, it's mostly been group settings. 2-3 other folks with us. Though she stays with me, like we are a couple. She's been to my house a couple of times, I have been to hers once.

 

During the 4 weeks that I hung out with her while I was still with my ex I was honest with my ex and talked about her, told her what we were doing, etc. My ex is not the jealous type and was fine with it.

 

I talked to her a lot about my issues with my now ex. She had been thru a very similar experience with her last bf. She never told me what to do; listened and shared her story, which I liked. I truly believe she came into my life when she did as a catalyst to help me end that relationship...hearing her story, seeing qualities in her I liked in a woman and realizing I had to get out of my last relationship.

 

I truly see her as a special person in my life, a great friend. She even hosted a big dinner for me on my birthday, planned it, invited everyone, it was very nice of her.

 

I have always seen her as a very attractive woman....and recently I have been wondering "what if...."

 

I have never felt an overwhelming desire to kiss her or anything like that...more of a closeness feeling. Difficult to explain.

Edited August 8, 2013 by Babolat

[Lansing]

Well, one of the girls I mentioned above. She told me when we met that she was basically "off" of guys and wasn't interested in dating as she had just broke up with a douche bag. Anyway, she would also do nice things for me (took me out for dinner and invited other friends along for my bday), made me creative Christmas gifts, cooked me dinner, etc). I would reciprocate and people also thought we were dating or ask why we didn't date. I liked her but the more I got to know her I felt like something was missing for a relationship and I ended up liking this other girl more. Well, turns out this friend had a major crush on me and opened up and told me about it one night. I guess it was pretty clear that she liked me but she would also do things I guess out of fear like pull away and act harsh/etc from time to time and those things she was doing rubbed me the wrong way and didn't make me want to date her. Long story short I rejected her and she basically pulled away completely over time.

 

Anyway, back to your story... I think there is definitely potential that she is interested. Maybe she isn't sure if you are over your ex yet. Maybe she isn't ready to "Date" yet either. But, I think you guys can keep getting close and maybe there will be a moment where it just "happens".... Do you keep good eye contact when you are talking to her. Maybe little things like that can express your interest and things will flow in that direction.

 

I had one situation where I expressed verbally my feelings for a girl when I was much younger and basically said "I can't keep this to myself anymore" and she totally felt the same way and it was great but the transition was a bit "weird"... I think you are better off kind of moving that way without necessarily having a "talk"

[Babolat]

Well, one of the girls I mentioned above. She told me when we met that she was basically "off" of guys and wasn't interested in dating as she had just broke up with a douche bag. Anyway, she would also do nice things for me (took me out for dinner and invited other friends along for my bday), made me creative Christmas gifts, cooked me dinner, etc). I would reciprocate and people also thought we were dating or ask why we didn't date. I liked her but the more I got to know her I felt like something was missing for a relationship and I ended up liking this other girl more. Well, turns out this friend had a major crush on me and opened up and told me about it one night. I guess it was pretty clear that she liked me but she would also do things I guess out of fear like pull away and act harsh/etc from time to time and those things she was doing rubbed me the wrong way and didn't make me want to date her. Long story short I rejected her and she basically pulled away completely over time.

 

Anyway, back to your story... I think there is definitely potential that she is interested. Maybe she isn't sure if you are over your ex yet. Maybe she isn't ready to "Date" yet either. But, I think you guys can keep getting close and maybe there will be a moment where it just "happens".... Do you keep good eye contact when you are talking to her. Maybe little things like that can express your interest and things will flow in that direction.

 

I had one situation where I expressed verbally my feelings for a girl when I was much younger and basically said "I can't keep this to myself anymore" and she totally felt the same way and it was great but the transition was a bit "weird"... I think you are better off kind of moving that way without necessarily having a "talk"

 

In the beginning she would ask me about my ex. My ex came out with me one night too in a group setting a couple of months after we broke up. I wanted her to meet more of my friends. The next day the woman I speak of sent me a text stating "It was strange seeing her there" referring to my ex.

 

There is another female friend I was hanging with for a while; she got touch feely flirty with me so I ended that. She recently asked me how that was going too and I told her.

 

This past weekend she was talking about how she feels alone sometimes and where do we meet people to date. She also asked me about another female friend of mine, who she has met, that I mentioned having dinner with recently. She asked me if she was someoen I could date.

 

On Sunday she invited me to go to a festival with her this upcoming weekend; I said yes. It's now Thursday, no word, which is not unusual for her. I don't make plans with her as in inviting her to do things. I wait for her to invite me or I toss it out there casually and wait for her reply.

 

Good feedback, we shall see. It's very different for me...becoming close to an attractive female, no romance, no sex, really enjoying our friendship.

[MidwestUSA]

I love "stuff on my rabbit", LOL!

 

Back OT.

[RedRobin]

I don't think that most people are wired that way- not saying that there's anything wrong with it, just that I don't think most people have the ability to simply turn off amorous feelings and replace them with friendly ones. I've had female friends that crushed on me for years- the opposite doesn't hold true simply because if a gal I'm interested in romantically doesn't feel the same way, I don't see any point in continuing the relationship on a different level than I really want. I've had two exceptions where I stayed very casual friends with them because they were in the same social circle. Oddly, in both of those cases at some point in the future they expressed interest- me being kinda thick headed about these things I went along with it. It didn't end well in either case and I'm no longer friends with either of them.

 

It is different if we'd legitimately dated for awhile, THEN he decided he just wanted to be friends. I'd need some time apart to heal, for sure. But if he were a decent person, I wouldn't be throwing out the baby with the bathwater.

 

Like I said, I guess working around all men I've had my share of crushes... then getting to know him better later and seeing, yea, probably wouldn't have worked out.

 

I'd appreciate the honesty rather than have him just string me along or try to squeeze me in as a FWB or placeholder. THAT is why I'd keep him as a friend.

 

I have no patience whatsoever with people who feel the need to keep a person around for convenience and sexy times (a FWB without her consent, basically).... while continuing to play the field... lots of times without telling the other person... and while stringing her along romantically/emotionally. You see that a lot here on LS.

[RedRobin]

I have always seen her as a very attractive woman....and recently I have been wondering "what if...."

 

I have never felt an overwhelming desire to kiss her or anything like that...more of a closeness feeling. Difficult to explain.

 

I guess you'll know when you know

 

I mention this a lot, that I work around all men... so I often take for granted that a lot of men really don't have the opportunity to get to know a variety of women in a non-sexual way.

 

Really wish more men would quit with their hangups about female friendships. I really do think that is the path to finding someone you are truly compatible with... and stop with the revolving door on one's heart.

 

You are fortunate to be able to gain the trust of these women too. It's something more guys here could learn from you.

 

... just my humble opinion

[Babolat]

I guess you'll know when you know

 

I mention this a lot, that I work around all men... so I often take for granted that a lot of men really don't have the opportunity to get to know a variety of women in a non-sexual way.

 

Really wish more men would quit with their hangups about female friendships. I really do think that is the path to finding someone you are truly compatible with... and stop with the revolving door on one's heart.

 

You are fortunate to be able to gain the trust of these women too. It's something more guys here could learn from you.

 

... just my humble opinion

 

Agreed..I am learning a lot about myself by allowing myself to be friends with woman. Doing things with them, talking to them, listening to them. listen to myself, without the sex and romance to get in the way.

 

It started as a way to be social, get out more, and most of my guy friends are players, drink too much and/or chase woman...that is not me and I find it boring. These woman are fun and we have deep intellectual talks, whcih I love!

[RedRobin]

Agreed..I am learning a lot about myself by allowing myself to be friends with woman. Doing things with them, talking to them, listening to them. listen to myself, without the sex and romance to get in the way.

 

It started as a way to be social, get out more, and most of my guy friends are players, drink too much and/or chase woman...that is not me and I find it boring. These woman are fun and we have deep intellectual talks, whcih I love!

 

a lot of men (and some women) would argue that sex doesn't get in the way...

 

However, I've said here many times... involving sex necessarily brings other layers and the damage to do great harm into the mix. The reason I object so strongly to PUA stuff is because it comes across as stealing. They can't get what they want through legitimate means, so they have to lie and manipulate. There is no positive way to spin it in my world.

 

There are other ways to get to know people without jumping into the sack with every willing person who comes along... is all I've ever said.

 

I notice how surprised some people are to find out that people who aren't sleeping with lots of people aren't necessarily frigid, or suffering from ED, or whatever.

 

Anyway, I'll get off my soapbox. Very glad to hear you have a system that works for you.

 

As for me, I can't hardly go to Meetups or do anything online without some guy trying to hump my leg ASAP. It's annoying as hell. I'd like very much the opportunity to get to know men near me the way these women are getting to know you.

 

Who knows if it will turn out for more? Sounds like a hell of a lot more fun and emotionally safer than doing things the other way.

[Babolat]

a lot of men (and some women) would argue that sex doesn't get in the way...

 

However, I've said here many times... involving sex necessarily brings other layers and the damage to do great harm into the mix. The reason I object so strongly to PUA stuff is because it comes across as stealing. They can't get what they want through legitimate means, so they have to lie and manipulate. There is no positive way to spin it in my world.

 

There are other ways to get to know people without jumping into the sack with every willing person who comes along... is all I've ever said.

 

I notice how surprised some people are to find out that people who aren't sleeping with lots of people aren't necessarily frigid, or suffering from ED, or whatever.

 

Anyway, I'll get off my soapbox. Very glad to hear you have a system that works for you.

 

As for me, I can't hardly go to Meetups or do anything online without some guy trying to hump my leg ASAP. It's annoying as hell. I'd like very much the opportunity to get to know men near me the way these women are getting to know you.

 

Who knows if it will turn out for more? Sounds like a hell of a lot more fun and emotionally safer than doing things the other way.

 

Regarding meetups, I have the same problem. I started getting Good To Meet Yous and then emails from some of the women. And/or they are probing me for where I am with dating, etc.

 

I actually try to make friends with more of the men..trying to increase my male buddy circle. I have met two pretty cool guys from MeetUps.

 

And I stopped going to the "Bar" related ones, the "social" MeetUps...very clicky and the crowd is just weird. It's like I am walking into a competition or something. The men glare at me and make it obvious they are not there to talk to me...like I am their competition. Their loss IMHO. And most of the women, especially the younger ones, when I talk to them I see a "who do you think you are" expression in their face. I am just here to talk, be social, make new friends, not get into your pants.

 

There is one girl I have seen at 3+ of the MeetUps, not my type, but attractive and gets a lot of male attention. I have talked to her a few times. She even taught me how to keep score at darts at one event. I saw her out last Friday night, approached her to say Hi and she pretended to not know who I was, then ignored me. Man how I wanted to say F you, but I did not.