Need insight-in most pivotal point in my life

[rumbleseat]

You don't have a chance to be with Michelle. Your sense of duty, your belief in God, it will all crumble and result into taking crazycanuck's path of being reformed. You'll be so easily brainwashed - the midlife crisis you've just turned 50!, the greener grass, blah blah. In that path you'll destroy Michelle, and have terrible guilt toward your wife and kids. You have the chance now to cut your losses. Leave the OW alone, and figure out your life. Very probably you'll stay. Too risky to leave. After all you can live this numb life.

 

I doubt your wife is severely disabled, as you've had kids with her and she can run your life. I suggest you leave the OW alone and see then if you feel like getting a divorce after seeing how the discussion of getting divorced will go with your W and with the kids. You know you don't have it in you even to have that discussion, right?

 

I'm really sorry, but from the outside your story is one destined to failed. You will stay married, and will want to drag Michelle along while thinking you are at a pivotal point in your life for years.

 

She's no more being dragged along than a person who willing boards a bus headed for the wrong side of town is being dragged along.

 

She's gotten involved with a man she knows is married. That decision was her own. She has the power to chnange that. She can get off the bus at any time. She is choosing not to do so.

[alkush]

YOU are suffering from Grass is Greener Syndrome....over there with that intellectual OW who enjoys your intellect...and that other significant body part..places no demands on you and treats you like a GOD...because she can, because there are no expectations on you, no reality intruding...

 

And you end it one dAy with your BS...that simpleton who was good enough to bear children with...and she is SCOOPED UP immediately by a man who realizes her grace and charm and selfless devotion...and treAts her like a QUEEN, because women like her extremely rare...loving, devoted and uncomplicated.

 

And you THEN pull out all the stops trying to regain what you so took for granted, what another man realized was precious and rare....

 

I've read it here a million times....

 

And it is too late for you. Your relationship with your OW starts to deteriorate as she wants MUCH, maybe TOO MUCH from you, more than you can give her, more than Hasmonean ever been expected from you, and you begin to argue, argue, argue.,...

 

And your wife and your kids are happy, maybe happier with another man.

 

ball in your court.

 

This is good. I thank you. I actually have suspected the concept that the OW will eventually place demands. That the current situation with her is not reality long term. I have been trying to get it to reality so I can make an informed decision. Such as seeing what life will be like with her child, etc. Trying to get there asap before things go south fast at home. I think this is becoming too high a mountain to climb. The OW has nothing to loose. I, everything, and those around me too.

[alkush]

Many extremely bright women create a LOT of drama, demands and have extreme expectations of what they require a man provide her - and MANY, if they don't get what they expect from the man around - they move on and find another one who may provide MORE than what you offer.

 

Don't fool yourself - when you are ordered by the court to pay a tone of your income and assets to your wife - there may not be a money "comfort zone" enough to offer another woman much of a cushy lifestyle.

 

We're did you meet the OW?

 

How long has she been divorced?

 

Excellent point. Well,I met her at work. She started there over 2 years ago. I liked her from day 1. I hid my feelings for about a year and a half. Was afraid she would see through me. Then last November an opportunity came up and I orchestrated what seemed like an innocent meet and things went very fast from there. As of January I don't work there anymore. That has nothing to do with me and her.

[alkush]

You don't have a chance to be with Michelle. Your sense of duty, your belief in God, it will all crumble and result into taking crazycanuck's path of being reformed. You'll be so easily brainwashed - the midlife crisis you've just turned 50!, the greener grass, blah blah. In that path you'll destroy Michelle, and have terrible guilt toward your wife and kids. You have the chance now to cut your losses. Leave the OW alone, and figure out your life. Very probably you'll stay. Too risky to leave. After all you can live this numb life.

 

I doubt your wife is severely disabled, as you've had kids with her and she can run your life. I suggest you leave the OW alone and see then if you feel like getting a divorce after seeing how the discussion of getting divorced will go with your W and with the kids. You know you don't have it in you even to have that discussion, right?

 

I'm really sorry, but from the outside your story is one destined to failed. You will stay married, and will want to drag Michelle along while thinking you are at a pivotal point in your life for years.

 

I love the way your saying it. "You can live this numb life" That is very accurate, descriptive. It is numb, no pain, but no life. Like being alive but with no senses. I've been calling it "Pleasant".

I never said she was severely disabled. The casual observer would not see anything wrong with her. They would think she is just a nice person.

 

One thing is for sure. I won't drag this out. The guilt has been too immense. My current lifestyle or life disposition, or whatever you want to call it, is completely and absolutely not acceptable to me.

[alkush]

Still at it, huh?

In the meantime, OP has banged his OW, spent time with her, neglected his wife and is still fence-sitting and pretending he is so worried, concerned, anxious about his poor long-suffering wife.

 

I can see how torn up you are about it, because you're mentally masturbating about what to do with regard to your marriage - but you have no qualms about continuing your hypocritical liaison with a woman whose sexual past you have expressed a concern about!

 

Yah.

Right.

 

Jeesh, either schytt or get off the pot, cake-eater!!

 

Tara, your slipping. You only got it half right this time. Yes, I am still doing the same old same old, including banging the OW. Did Friday and Sunday

 

I don't believe I questioned the OW sexual past. Just in her choice of a BF 9 years her junior when she was 29.

 

I'll schytt or get off the pot soon enough, when I am ready. I like cake! And just like cake, I feel guilty eating it.

[alkush]

Since you don't know what you want divorce your W since you already dropped that bomb on her world and certainly aren't acting like a loving husband.

 

Be on your own. Get professional help - to see what's missing deep inside you. While you do that - stay away from any women until you fix what's broken about yourself.

 

The only thing you have to offer a woman is your selfishness - and that never makes for a good, loving partner.

 

No, your wrong. I'm a great catch. I have faults but I'm a great catch. For all but 9 months of the last 23 years I have been a great catch. All there is too it. You guys can rip into that if you want. Everyone gets lost in different ways during life. Thats what life is. Im not going to divorce her till it I know if that is what I want. I don't have to be on my own to learn whats missing in me. Divorce her to go find myself. THAT sounds pretty selfish. If I cannot figure it out while I'm married then maybe it doesn't get figured out. Too bad for me. I will continue to shelter and protect my wife and kids. I seem to want to fix everything. Always was like that. I want everything to be ok except for my wife simply not having me anymore. But everything else goes on. Too unrealistic.

[alkush]

Alkush, ake this story and pay close attention.

 

You are so wrapped up in defending yourself and being right that you are ignoring the act that people are trying to help you. They are not trying to be mean or hurt you. They have seen your situation over and over again and want to keep you from falling into the same trap. You just don't wnat to hear it.

 

Everyone wants to feel like their situation is special or unique. Most often, they are not.

 

I hear you! I hear you! OK everyone, I hear you!. I appreciate it. It has helped more than all the counseling. I'm working through it.

[alkush]

She's no more being dragged along than a person who willing boards a bus headed for the wrong side of town is being dragged along.

 

She's gotten involved with a man she knows is married. That decision was her own. She has the power to chnange that. She can get off the bus at any time. She is choosing not to do so.

 

I agree. Michelle knows she is with a married man. She seems to have reconciled this much much easier than I have been able to. I see absolutes, she sees, it depends, or gray areas. Somethings wrong with both of us. Only one ok is my less than normal intelligence wife!! Who are the dummies!

[alkush]

OK here comes the rest of the story that I have not told. I know what your all going to say.

 

High level chronology:

 

Married for 22 years (come October 20)

15 plus years feeling not in love

Michelle started where I worked 2-1/2 years ago as of last Feb

I noticed her day -1

Feelings grew stronger as the months went by.

"What am I going to do with this? I like her so much. Can't stop thinking about her" "what if she sees it in me?"

 

Here is the new info- I, at the age of 49, had a mild heart attack, August 19 2012. While in the middle of nowhere, cornfields, driving my son back to college between Chicago and Iowa.

Stent inserted, home in a few days.

Doctors "Your a lucky man"

 

November- 10, 2012. Things begin with Michelle. (yes Michelle knows about the heart attack)

 

August-2013, On the forum looking for help and insight!!

 

I don't know, Michelle gives me hope. I feel alive.

Edited August 13, 2013 by alkush

[Mint Sauce]

why did your wife marry you? what drew her to you? besides your knight-like properties, that is?

 

Does she appreciate you for what you really have to offer? Are you really so confident that you're a great catch, if you take your high level of responsibility out of the equation?

Edited August 13, 2013 by Mint Sauce
typo

[alkush]

I don't know, Michelle gives me hope. I feel alive. My deal to me, the admittedly, extremely biased person in the thick of it, is that I have had these feelings for such a long time and the interest in Michelle and the heart attack just threw it undeniably in my face. To finally deal with.

[campfire]

I don't know, Michelle gives me hope. I feel alive. My deal to me, the admittedly, extremely biased person in the thick of it, is that I have had these feelings for such a long time and the interest in Michelle and the heart attack just threw it undeniably in my face. To finally deal with.

 

I've been following the thread and it's an interesting read.

 

Did you have this "urge" to get out of the marriage with your wife before the heart attack? Do you think maybe the heart attack made you realize that life is short and you need to live a little before you die?

 

I honestly don't think you will feel happy with a divorce unless you manage to free yourself of guilt and the need for justification. You seem like a person who really cares for the ones around you. The bigger issue for you might not be wether or not your wife will manage, but wether or not you will free yourself of guilt if you decide to leave the marriage.

 

Plus I think its a good idea to leave Michelle out of the equation on this one. It doesn't seem to matter if she's in your life or not - you will still feel unhappy in your marriage.

[73Fras]

Recent Heart Attack - ok that probably scared you and woke you up and realized wow, I have been on auto pilot for so many years.

So you have been unhappy for 15 out of 22 years, what changed after the 1st HAPPY 7 years. Your wife got busy taking care of YOU and YOUR KIDS and YOUR HOUSE and you took it all for granted and now you want more. You aren't happy with yourself, you will never be happy with anymore...

 

 

In the end, if you were to have another heart attack - or worse on your death bed, who would you want to be the person next to you. Your wife and kids or this new lady and HER son? Remember you can only have one...

[alkush]

why did your wife marry you? what drew her to you? besides your knight-like properties, that is?

 

Does she appreciate you for what you really have to offer? Are you really so confident that you're a great catch, if you take your high level of responsibility out of the equation?

 

Why did she marry me? Hmmm, probably same reason I did. To make a long story short, we found "Keeper" type people. People you can go through life with and build a future. Decent,honest, treat you right. She seems to have always loved me and still does. I just wanted a nice girl, no drama, no craziness, no risk. That's what I got.

 

I think she does appreciate me for most and discounts the bad. BUT she does not understand or appreciate how I take care of the family financially. Never a worry there. And most importantly, an appreciation that I NEVER HAVE TAKEN ADVANTAGE OF HER CONDITION. I NEVER used any advantage I have against her. She has a HUGE exposed underbelly. I NEVER did that to her. And I mean never.

Except for my huge sense of responsibility am I a good catch? I get what that insinuates. That's a great point your making. I have to think about that one. It doesn't really need an answer, but is more for me to ponder actually. Thanks

[alkush]

I've been following the thread and it's an interesting read.

 

Did you have this "urge" to get out of the marriage with your wife before the heart attack? Do you think maybe the heart attack made you realize that life is short and you need to live a little before you die?

 

I honestly don't think you will feel happy with a divorce unless you manage to free yourself of guilt and the need for justification. You seem like a person who really cares for the ones around you. The bigger issue for you might not be wether or not your wife will manage, but wether or not you will free yourself of guilt if you decide to leave the marriage.

 

Plus I think its a good idea to leave Michelle out of the equation on this one. It doesn't seem to matter if she's in your life or not - you will still feel unhappy in your marriage.

 

Thanks for saying I care. I do. I really do. I know everyone says I don't, citing the recent evidence. But look at the whole picture and I do care.

 

Yes, for years I felt a continuous slow slide into the numbness.

Yes I think the heart attack made me feel I need to enjoy more of life. Be happy. Find someone I can connect to more than just have duty to.

 

So is it that the heart attack made me actually start thinking clearly now?

Or is it that the heart attack made my mind skewed and I ran out and got a GF?

Is Michelle's thinking skewed, dating a married man and all, because she fears being alone, financially barely making it, and wanting a good role model for her son? Or is she just not what I think she is?

 

My life can be so less complicated and I don't need these answers if I just shut up and return to my numb life. Is that being a coward, or is moving forward with Michelle being a coward shirking my responsibilities?

 

Or does it not matter because it's too late now. I cannot upset her life this late in the game.

 

I mus admit that I have been acting like"Oh i'm 50 and had a heart attack, i'm in the twilight of my life" The doctor told me to live my life and there is no reason It cant be full and long. People tell me to stop talking like your an old man. You always acted like just the opposite before. Full of life and of a young spirit.

[alkush]

Recent Heart Attack - ok that probably scared you and woke you up and realized wow, I have been on auto pilot for so many years.

So you have been unhappy for 15 out of 22 years, what changed after the 1st HAPPY 7 years. Your wife got busy taking care of YOU and YOUR KIDS and YOUR HOUSE and you took it all for granted and now you want more. You aren't happy with yourself, you will never be happy with anymore...

 

 

In the end, if you were to have another heart attack - or worse on your death bed, who would you want to be the person next to you. Your wife and kids or this new lady and HER son? Remember you can only have one...

 

Yes auto pilot! Good way to say it.

 

Im tired of everyone putting the wife on a pedestal and kicking me. She could take care of me and the kids and the house because I brought home money unwavering. I provided the financial resources and proper attitude as a dad and husband so a functional home, not house, home, can exist and fluorish. every day, every year, every decade. I filled my role so she can do EXACTLY WHAT SHE WANTED, ALWAYS DREAMED OF DOING, ALWAYS FELT HER LOT IN LIFE WAS. WE, not JUST her, WE did what we were supposed to do. She worked if she wanted to, didn't if she didn't want to. I never batted an either way.

I CAME HOME TO THE DINNER TABLE EVERY DAY. Until recently she knew where I was every moment of those 22 years. I HAVE BEEN A GREAT HUSBAND AND FATHER. I GAVE HER AN IDYLLIC LIFESTYLE. I gave her everything that was important to her. I'm not saying it is all altruistic on my part, I wanted it too and respected the fact that if I gave her the resources, conditions, and atmosphere that she would create it. She did. I am forever indebted to her for the way my kids turned out so far. So bottom line it was, is a great partnership. Everyone did what was expected or needed from the other person.

 

My wife and kids at my death bed if I had to choose and if it happened now. But your analogy is skewed actually. They could all be there if I did this correctly. Especially if that death bed was 20 years from now.

[rumbleseat]

I once knew a man really well who was married and loved his wife. They were always happy together, and he would often say how lucky he was to have her.

 

One day, he met a woman and developed a crush on her. They started a relationship, and all of a sudden, he had never been happy in his marriage, had never really loved her, wanted a divorce, etc.

 

He told his wife about the affair, and she told him to get out and go stay with his other woman, if that is what he really wanted.

 

For some reason, he suddenly wanted nothing more than his marriage.

 

I don't claim to know or understand how any of that happened, but I do know that in counseling, he was forced to face some truth about himself and how he had treated his wife that he really didn't like.

 

they are still together and very happy again.

[2sunny]

I too, think you're rewriting you history - either way, what you continue to criticize you for for isn't nice... And it says a lot about you.

 

Let's play a game... How about you list 50 of the qualities about yourself? After all, this really is about you - and your fence sitting.

 

 

I wish your wife had the balls to throw you out today. That way - you'd be thinking real quick about what to do next.

[alkush]

alkush - I'm going to guess that nearly everyone writing you on this thread has never cheated themselves. I cheated big time on my wife. Quick background: married 11 years, 3 kids, I'd never been with anyone other than my wife for my entire life but ended up having an affair with the woman who competed for my attention w/ my wife back when we were teens and young adults. The physical cheating happened 3 years ago this month...the emotional cheating long, long before.

 

So, in essence I was going to leave my wife and kids and move in with the OW and her two kids. Only problem was she lived on the other side of the continent and was married as well. So, without getting into any more details, I basically imploded my life completely. It blew up beyond anything I thought was possible when it all came out and I declared I was going to leave my wife for the OW. A deep hell beyond anything I can even begin to describe began and it didn't end until I finally resolved to end all contact w/ the OW the following March.

 

My wife and I went through INTENSE counselling that only ended 8 or 9 months ago, with a few follow-ups since. The crazy thing is that my marriage today is better than it ever was before...and i would've NEVER believed that was possible. Like your situation, my wife wasn't an intellectually curious person (I work in the a very demanding intellectual environment, meeting high-level gov't leaders on a regular basis) and I was bored of her. Plus, factor in unresolved problems, family issues...I was simply done w/ her and I actually believed to my core that I had made a mistake marrying her. In essence, I believed all the lies you're telling yourself (as I read your posts). Everything you've written here could be me 3 years ago.

 

Ultimately, one of the reasons (although certainly not the only one) I ended the affair completely and resolved to stay with my wife was because I finally realized that the problems I had with my wife, although real, weren't the core issue. The core issue was in fact me. I had to fix myself.

 

I'm just going to tell you straight out: I stood on the edge of a parking garage in downtown Toronto and was seconds away from jumping when my wife called me and talked me down. Your affair will lead to thoughts of suicide when it's discovered (and it will be, mark my words). Your life will become a living hell beyond anything you can even begin to imagine.

 

The fact you're even on here asking questions abotu who you should stay with tell me that you KNOW what the right thing is to do, but you're scared to do it.

 

Man to man: end the affair cold turkey (no contact, or it will NEVER end), admit what you did to your wife, and then look up Beyond Affairs. THose people, Anne and Brian, saved my life and my family's life. They only deal with couples who are dealing with infidelity (as they went through it themselves).

 

Anyway, just don't go for the OW...you will be sorry long-term and frankly she'll likely be worse for you than your current wife. The grass isn't greener...just different.

 

Trust me...i know. End it and own up to it and then work your ass off to fix yourself and your family.

 

This was gret and I appreciate it. Somehow In my heart of hearts I know it is right. But I don't know if I will choose it. How did you find that love again with her? I don't understand how that can be rekindled, something that even the embers have been out for years. I don't want to just respect her and appreciate her. Im a passionate person, I need to feel those feelings we all crave. The responses to this thread I have started only makes me greatly question what I'm doing with Michelle. It takes away my hope but doesn't give me anything good to replace it with.

[alkush]

Alkush, ake this story and pay close attention.

 

You are so wrapped up in defending yourself and being right that you are ignoring the act that people are trying to help you. They are not trying to be mean or hurt you. They have seen your situation over and over again and want to keep you from falling into the same trap. You just don't wnat to hear it.

 

Everyone wants to feel like their situation is special or unique. Most often, they are not.

 

I guess I agree. I think if anything I have learned is that my situation is not unique and that I don not truly have a special situation that legitimizes what I am doing. That is problematic because now it is so much harder to do.

[alkush]

I once knew a man really well who was married and loved his wife. They were always happy together, and he would often say how lucky he was to have her.

 

One day, he met a woman and developed a crush on her. They started a relationship, and all of a sudden, he had never been happy in his marriage, had never really loved her, wanted a divorce, etc.

 

He told his wife about the affair, and she told him to get out and go stay with his other woman, if that is what he really wanted.

 

For some reason, he suddenly wanted nothing more than his marriage.

 

I don't claim to know or understand how any of that happened, but I do know that in counseling, he was forced to face some truth about himself and how he had treated his wife that he really didn't like.

 

they are still together and very happy again.

 

OMG, you have no idea how this strikes me. I am that exact person who always touts my wife and kids and says how lucky I am. People know me as a devoted family man.

[Sooverhim]

I guess I agree. I think if anything I have learned is that my situation is not unique and that I don not truly have a special situation that legitimizes what I am doing. That is problematic because now it is so much harder to do.

 

 

It's great that you have come here to post your story and share your thoughts Alkush, you are thinking things through and are (hopefully) going to make the best decision about what's best for you and your wife in the future. It's great that you realise your situation is not unique, that is massively important. I too came to the realisation that my situation was not unique, that my A was not special and that what me and my XMM had was not special either, that it was just a bog-standard typical A the same as everyone else's whilst I was still in my A, and that was a huge motivator for me getting out of the A, and for staying out.

 

As far as rekindling your M goes, it is possible. I am doing it now. I am 17 months out of my A. At the point at which I started my A and for the whole time during it I had completely checked out of my M and was very distant from my H. When I ended my A I made the decision to see whether my M had any hope, though deep down I didn't believe it had any hope and was all geared up for being a single mum. But I have been doing the work, communicating with my H, spending quality time together, reinvesting in our M, improving our relationship, and it has worked. We are very happy again now, as happy as we were in the beginning of our M, maybe even more so.

 

It's like anything Alkush, you get out of life what you put into it. If you decide to improve your M and put the work in you will get a better M, and you will be a happier more fulfilled person, you have to give it a chance and make the effort.

 

Good luck!

[alkush]

I too, think you're rewriting you history - either way, what you continue to criticize you for for isn't nice... And it says a lot about you.

 

Let's play a game... How about you list 50 of the qualities about yourself? After all, this really is about you - and your fence sitting.

 

 

I wish your wife had the balls to throw you out today. That way - you'd be thinking real quick about what to do next.

 

List 50 qualities! I didn't know there were 50!

NOW, it is interesting that you mention my wife throwing me out today. I have thought about this before you posted it. Your right. I only have this luzury to sit on the fence because she is afraid or hasn't made such a move, or is sitting around hopeful. It is cruel to her. It shouldn't have gone on this long, but believe me a decision is coming. Yes, I need to grow some too and make a decision. I feel like I need to know more about Michelle and particularly her son and what life will be like before I make that decision. Now before everyone goes nutty on me I do NOW know that that thinking is flawed. But its like I need all the facts so I can make an informed decision. Again, I know that is flawed. I also know that hypothetically if my wife did hit me with an ultimatum today,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,I think,,,,,,,,,,,,,I would end it with Michelle. But it is probably again because I don't have the scones. Because I love Michelle. I'm hopeless. Best thing I ever did was post this thread. It has been amazingly helpful and gives me clarity. Although I don't like what I saw as the smoke cleared.

[alkush]

It's great that you have come here to post your story and share your thoughts Alkush, you are thinking things through and are (hopefully) going to make the best decision about what's best for you and your wife in the future. It's great that you realise your situation is not unique, that is massively important. I too came to the realisation that my situation was not unique, that my A was not special and that what me and my XMM had was not special either, that it was just a bog-standard typical A the same as everyone else's whilst I was still in my A, and that was a huge motivator for me getting out of the A, and for staying out.

 

As far as rekindling your M goes, it is possible. I am doing it now. I am 17 months out of my A. At the point at which I started my A and for the whole time during it I had completely checked out of my M and was very distant from my H. When I ended my A I made the decision to see whether my M had any hope, though deep down I didn't believe it had any hope and was all geared up for being a single mum. But I have been doing the work, communicating with my H, spending quality time together, reinvesting in our M, improving our relationship, and it has worked. We are very happy again now, as happy as we were in the beginning of our M, maybe even more so.

 

It's like anything Alkush, you get out of life what you put into it. If you decide to improve your M and put the work in you will get a better M, and you will be a happier more fulfilled person, you have to give it a chance and make the effort.

 

Good luck!

 

Thank you I appreciate this. I think that if I do go back to the wife that maybe it can be better. I had to have this thrown in my face for a while. That being the possibility of not being with her anymore. And what that reality would be. It is funny how things over the passing months have gone from perceived clarity to hazziness to another very different perceived clarity. I've been lucky to have had this time to do that. It has been the most incredibly humbling experience as I have been forced to knock myself off a pedestal 1000 feet high. To realize that good qualities I think I possess can and have been used in negative ways. To gain a greater respect and appreciation for the subtle unassuming qualities my wife has. So I have brought me way down and lifted the wife up. Sort of to the point of a more balanced position. Armed with that new truth I can probably do better and focus on the good in my marriage, try to work on the things I wish could be better. Even if I can't, it is probably the only path worth going down or spending time on.

But I do love Michelle! Life is crazy!

[2sunny]

You are trying to burn two fires at the same time.

 

One has burned bright for years because you paid attention to it.

 

Now you have this other fire burning - and you're trying to burn that one brighter. So you're stoking that second fire - and ignoring the first fire.

 

The second one burns brighter because you're ignoring the first fire you built. You're paying more attention to the second fire and letting the first one dissipate.