tbf Posted August 5, 2013 Posted August 5, 2013 By the time most women are 35 or so, there really aren't really any "good men" left. "Good" meaning not just men who aren't serial killers, but who are also good lovers, and good relationships partners. Most "good men" are married. Some might be divorced or widows, but overall most men who are left by that age (35) are either serial cheats, players, immature, or inexperienced losers who don't know how to get or keep a date to save their life. So yes, there truly aren't any good men left by the time many women complain about the lack of good men. Just being single and not a horrible person doesn't make you a "good man"...I couldn't disagree more about the lack of good men from 35 and onwards. After my divorce, in my early thirties, I met quite a number of good men in my target age group which was up to 10 years older. The difference might be social and work networks, where there was a never-ending supply of single or divorced men. Also, the minute people step out their front door, real life opportunities abound. But based on what's been observed on LS about cyber dating and meet up sites, I'm unbelievably grateful to never having needed to rely on them, to meet eligible males. There appear to be a substantial number of online wannabe players and commitment phobes. So maybe that's where the perception of "No good men left" comes from.
white Posted August 5, 2013 Posted August 5, 2013 There's slow, and then there's too slow. A guy who does not initiate any affection, show any romance or create any chemistry will not be attractive to most women. What does this mean to you? I mean I see it said so much around here yet the boundaries, the definition, are so unclear. And I've seen enough in my life to suggest, there are no boundaries, there is no definition; it is entirely subjective and based on whether the woman likes the guy already or not. Which makes it a roll of the dice, and one which can get a man in a lot of trouble, either personally when he faces a terrible rejection, or much worse. Which explains perhaps why so many men have problems with it.
Weezy1973 Posted August 5, 2013 Posted August 5, 2013 I don't think the world is either jerk or nice guy. Rather, being a jerk gives you more options to work with. Dating is a marketplace, and you want to have the product that has the widest appeal. As far as how to be an attractive man, well, most men who aren't that way naturally are going to have a very hard time becoming that man. It might even be impossible... There's a very small percentage of men that aren't attractive enough to attract some women. Whether these women are attractive to the men is another story. The vast majority of men are nice, and the vast majority of men are in relationships. In this case I'm defining nice as having characteristics that make one good at being in relationships (honesty, openness, trustworthy, etc.). There are likely a few women that aren't attracted to those qualities and prefer other qualities, and those women are likely to remain single - and perhaps lament that there are "no good men."' But just like the large majority of men are in relationships, so are the majority of women (kind of easy to do the math there). Therefore, it's pretty clear that most women are attracted to, and develop relationships with, nice men. 1
fortyninethousand322 Posted August 5, 2013 Posted August 5, 2013 I couldn't disagree more about the lack of good men from 35 and onwards. After my divorce, in my early thirties, I met quite a number of good men in my target age group which was up to 10 years older. The difference might be social and work networks, where there was a never-ending supply of single or divorced men. Also, the minute people step out their front door, real life opportunities abound. But based on what's been observed on LS about cyber dating and meet up sites, I'm unbelievably grateful to never having needed to rely on them, to meet eligible males. There appear to be a substantial number of online wannabe players and commitment phobes. So maybe that's where the perception of "No good men left" comes from. Well, perhaps it's a product of sample selection. I live in a pretty suburban/urban area. And I look around at the number of single people I know (i.e. not in a relationship or married) and I have to say almost all of them fall into the categories that I mentioned. It just seems to me that the bulk of men who are single in their 30s are not people who are good catches. If they were, they'd have been caught by now. Exceptions of course are possible, but in general.
tbf Posted August 5, 2013 Posted August 5, 2013 Well, perhaps it's a product of sample selection.That may well be, in that the industry that I work in, selects by credentials of social connections, top tier educations, intelligence, charm and good looks. Also, my social network is comprised of good people. The men met through them, are also good people. So these guys have been pre-vetted. There's also luck involved, where I've been lucky to have some pretty good neighbors or neighbors of friends. But then, there's the element of experience, where experience has taught me who to avoid and who to allow close. This doesn't mean that everyone not allowed close aren't good people. What it does mean is that they're incompatible, where some aren't good people. I like to believe that my gut instincts are pretty good. So far, it's been bang on with first assessments. Where it's failed wasn't a failure of it, it was a failure of my conscious mind to rationalize away the warnings. There are also individuals who are very good at masking so it also takes some time to lift the hood. 3
Phoe Posted August 5, 2013 Posted August 5, 2013 Just a good man, with a good heart, who is kind and a good companion, and who can be a gem to me although maybe was discarded by others. So I guess my point is, people are different and standards can be lowered objectively after 40, there are less "needs" to be met. What I find odd is that these are considered "lowered" standards. These are great standards! I'm only 24 and those are my only standards. 1
Phoe Posted August 5, 2013 Posted August 5, 2013 If women are preferring philanderers then in turn doesn't that mean there are no good women left... Indeed! haha I sometimes get a bit annoyed with guys who say ""Women always date the same kind of jerk and then complain that there are no good women left. Blah Blah women are dumb they don't go for the nice guy." Well couldn't I turn that right back around and say "blah blah men are so dumb they only notice the girls who chase the players and don't even acknowledge the existence of the girls who ALL they have ever wanted is a nice guy to be her companion. Then the guy says "no there are no girls like that they all are attracted to the jerks just some will lie and say they aren't" Cool. Continue being close minded ya silly men.
BluEyeL Posted August 5, 2013 Posted August 5, 2013 What I find odd is that these are considered "lowered" standards. These are great standards! I'm only 24 and those are my only standards. If I were 24 and wise, I'd better choose a driven man, who is likely to drive the family train and help me raise a family. And I'd put more emphasis on sex too probably. Other than that, everything else applies. I can take a more artistic, less driven guy now, actually even prefer it. Not lowered standards, just modified based on modified life goals.
Drseussgrrl Posted August 5, 2013 Posted August 5, 2013 Don't any of you men take into account that there have been SEVERAL women chime in on this thread and say they prefer nice men? Or are we ALL the exception and not the rule?
Southern Cal Dude Posted August 5, 2013 Posted August 5, 2013 No good men means no good men I'm attracted to. I've made the effort to call out women who make these claims. They usually shut up pretty quickly. Bottom line...approach the guys you like instead of waiting and you'll likely date less players. 1
New User Posted August 5, 2013 Posted August 5, 2013 My argument is that the ability to make someone want to be with you romantically/sexually implies the value of you as a person. That you are so awesome that someone else wants to share in that awesomeness in an intimate way. And since you've always had women around who were interested in you, you have no ability to understand the other point of view. You're right- I don't have an ability to understand that point of view. All that I can say is that my sense of worth as a man is much more tied to things I've built, physicality (which at my age is fading and will only continue to do so), and the belief that I've in some small way helped a few people along the way. Regardless- I sincerely hope that you are able to find what you're looking for. It honestly pains me somewhat to see men invest such a large amount of their perception of their own worth on finding and attracting a mate. I hope that this doesn't come across as condescending or insulting in any way. That isn't my intent.
fortyninethousand322 Posted August 5, 2013 Posted August 5, 2013 Don't any of you men take into account that there have been SEVERAL women chime in on this thread and say they prefer nice men? Or are we ALL the exception and not the rule? Well, to be fair, your definition of "nice men" does not include "dateless losers". So there's that. Plus, revealed preference. The number of threads on LS about men who are clearly not "nice" proves to be a nice counterexample...
Phoe Posted August 5, 2013 Posted August 5, 2013 Don't any of you men take into account that there have been SEVERAL women chime in on this thread and say they prefer nice men? Or are we ALL the exception and not the rule? We're not even exceptions, we're just liars. Clearly 1
BluEyeL Posted August 5, 2013 Posted August 5, 2013 we do but it is self selecting? i've seen nice backfire so many times. my own experiences too. If you are truly nice and it backfires, it means you didn't choose a kind woman. So not a nice woman. What, women are always nice? So not true!
Southern Cal Dude Posted August 5, 2013 Posted August 5, 2013 Don't any of you men take into account that there have been SEVERAL women chime in on this thread and say they prefer nice men? Or are we ALL the exception and not the rule? Saying it doesn't mean a damn thing. I can say I'm the next coming of Christ. Doesn't make it true. Actions always speak louder than words. 3
BluEyeL Posted August 5, 2013 Posted August 5, 2013 Saying it doesn't mean a damn thing. I can say I'm the next coming of Christ. Doesn't make it true. Actions always speak louder than words. And how may we show you our respective actions?
Drseussgrrl Posted August 5, 2013 Posted August 5, 2013 the experiences to my friends and acquantances and coworkers are other counterexamples. dateless losers just don't have the abilty to evoke sexual energy. they try but it falls flat for them. its like someone with no sense of humor trying to tell jokes. painful to watch. So we're talking about dateless losers vs cheating players? Well I'm not attracted to either one. I like nice men. /endthread
Southern Cal Dude Posted August 5, 2013 Posted August 5, 2013 And how may we show you our respective actions? Only way is to meet in person. Just because you say you like nice guys doesn't make it true. I can say I hate big boobs and curves. Would you believe that?
Anela Posted August 5, 2013 Posted August 5, 2013 I was burned by a guy who read PUA crap, and complained about women wanting the fancy cars, and guys with jobs that pay a lot of money. I had liked him before I knew about this other crap - sort of shy, introverted, and I could relate to him, I thought. He drove my self-esteem into the ground, and was a "do as I say, not as I do," type of person. He wanted the hot girls who had high expectations regarding those shiny things, and bitched until he found a way to get them. He also lost the next girlfriend he had, one he claimed to be in a love with, after a year or less, and went right back to hating the world. 1
Phoe Posted August 5, 2013 Posted August 5, 2013 Saying it doesn't mean a damn thing. I can say I'm the next coming of Christ. Doesn't make it true. Actions always speak louder than words. Actions do speak louder than words, but considering you have NO idea what our actions are, and have never observed a single one of us on a day to day basis, you have no reason to make any kind of negative opinion against us. You can choose to believe us, or not. But your "action" of choosing not to believe us sure speaks volumes. 1
BluEyeL Posted August 5, 2013 Posted August 5, 2013 Only way is to meet in person. Just because you say you like nice guys doesn't make it true. I can say I hate big boobs and curves. Would you believe that? OK, so there is no way to know. Why would we say we like nice guys if we don't? I know I do because I'm dating one. Now, I can't know if it's going to last, if not, I'll post a bitter thread on LS when we break up:p 1
New User Posted August 5, 2013 Posted August 5, 2013 But you're younger than 40 aren't you? I thought as people age their sex drives decline? Not as steeply for everyone. At 40, once a month wasn't anywhere near enough for me. Nor was once a week. Even at almost 45 it isn't. 2
Phoe Posted August 5, 2013 Posted August 5, 2013 Only way is to meet in person. Just because you say you like nice guys doesn't make it true. I can say I hate big boobs and curves. Would you believe that? I realize you're just saying this to be argumentative, but if you were stating it in a normal context, why shouldn't I believe it? Every person has their preference.
Southern Cal Dude Posted August 5, 2013 Posted August 5, 2013 Actions do speak louder than words, but considering you have NO idea what our actions are, and have never observed a single one of us on a day to day basis, you have no reason to make any kind of negative opinion against us. You can choose to believe us, or not. But your "action" of choosing not to believe us sure speaks volumes. Real life experience > anonymous poster on the Internet. Bottom line is being a player does work. Being surrounded by women does work. I suggest looking up the term "preselection". It's all subconscious. Just like I'm subconsciously attracted to big boobs and curves. It shows fertility.
Phoe Posted August 5, 2013 Posted August 5, 2013 a nice man who can't evoke enough sexual energy is a dateless loser. a nice man is not a cheating player. food for thought. endthread, not a chance. there's a lot more to discuss on this topic. Most of them men I've dated were what society considered "dateless losers" - I was their first in every aspect off the word, and unfortunately for me I ended up being the "test dummy" that they learned (and failed) with. I am very understanding with these men that when they do something dumb it's usually just that they have no idea what they're doing, and not anything of malicious intent. I have never ever ever dated a player, nor have I ever even been approached by a player. Perhaps players can sense that there'd be no point with me. 1
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