Those Who Knew

[findingnemo]

I don't know why no one is talking about messengers getting shot. The fact is some people keep quiet if they think you are a tough person. The more together you are, the less likely that people will come to you gossiping about your spouse. If you are a softie, then it is likely people will tell you stuff...including lies.

 

I was like this. I am the worst person to tell something bad about a person I love. My first thought would be "Why is she telling me this?" I would obviously verify to make sure what the person said isn't true. Affairs can be very difficult to prove. Ask any Judge about adultery and they will tell you that it is mostly circumstantial evidence. Who ever manages to get a photo of their WS in flagrante?

 

So imagine someone tells me my SO is fooling around. He/she has no means of ensuring I check properly. If I confront SO, he will deny and come up with a story. Most likely claim my female friend is a gossip who is jealous of me because she wanted him and he said no. This actually came out of my xH's foul mouth once. Do you know how many women have completely rejected information like that? So many that conventional wisdom tells us to shut up unless we have proof.

 

Yes, it is very annoying to know that close people knew or suspected and didn't tell you. but that is usually a reaction that comes after the fact. No one is sure how you would react before you are sure of an A. So sad really.

[JustAReformedGirl]

I don't know why no one is talking about messengers getting shot. The fact is some people keep quiet if they think you are a tough person. The more together you are, the less likely that people will come to you gossiping about your spouse. If you are a softie, then it is likely people will tell you stuff...including lies.

 

Actually, some people have brought that up-at least in part. If the messenger happens to be wrong, or even if the messenger says they merely suspect, and their suspicions were taken on as gospel-only to be proven wrong-yes, the messenger stands to be attacked by either party in the relationship.

 

But yes, I agree with the point you're making.

[MissBee]

I don't know why no one is talking about messengers getting shot. The fact is some people keep quiet if they think you are a tough person. The more together you are, the less likely that people will come to you gossiping about your spouse. If you are a softie, then it is likely people will tell you stuff...including lies.

 

I was like this. I am the worst person to tell something bad about a person I love. My first thought would be "Why is she telling me this?" I would obviously verify to make sure what the person said isn't true. Affairs can be very difficult to prove. Ask any Judge about adultery and they will tell you that it is mostly circumstantial evidence. Who ever manages to get a photo of their WS in flagrante?

 

So imagine someone tells me my SO is fooling around. He/she has no means of ensuring I check properly. If I confront SO, he will deny and come up with a story. Most likely claim my female friend is a gossip who is jealous of me because she wanted him and he said no. This actually came out of my xH's foul mouth once. Do you know how many women have completely rejected information like that? So many that conventional wisdom tells us to shut up unless we have proof.

 

Yes, it is very annoying to know that close people knew or suspected and didn't tell you. but that is usually a reaction that comes after the fact. No one is sure how you would react before you are sure of an A. So sad really.

 

I brought it up...not in so many words though. But said that they may be afraid of how you'll take it and that you'll instead be upset with them, particularly if it's a case of "suspicion."

 

People tend to want to defend the ones they love as you said. I realize telling a friend something negative about their SO often turns into a big mess. It happened to me once...we stopped talking for a while but became friends again and she apologized when she realized the truth about him for herself. But yes, people's fears of seeming meddlesome or that they'll get shot as the messenger etc. do play into their decision to tell or not.

 

One thing I wouldn't do if I was told, is tell who told me. I think that may be awkward too, as if you decide to reconcile or even if not, the WS may hold some resentment for the messenger or it can just be this weird environment for both the WS and the messenger and may cause bad blood between them...wonder if there are cases where the bestfriend found out, told the BS, BS told WS bff told her, they reconciled, but WS and bff can no longer get along...which also tries into the who to disclose the A to as the BS thread, as sometimes even though the BS forgives, others may still look at the WS differently.

 

Ughh!!!! As I said...affairs potentially put EVERYONE in an awkward position who finds out about it.

[Betterthanthis13]

I guess my point from my example above was that its not my place to pass judgement or even suspect Jim is having an affair, but if it makes me suspicious, (and I am not just being a vindictive troublemaker), then I should provide my friend with the same factual information I have that made me suspicious, so that she can then get suspicious (or not) on her own, and do whatever she wants to with the information.

 

What if I am just uninformed, and it is Jim's niece who recently moved to town, and he is helping her look for a job and they have been meeting for lunch a few times a week? Wife knows all about it. No problem.

 

What if it IS an ongoing affair, Jim meets with her 2x aweek and takes her to a hotel after lunch, the woman is a Craigslist escort and is HIV positive?

 

Maybe I should have in this scenario, gone up to Jim at the restaurant and said, "Hey, how are ya? Haven't talked to your wife in awhile. Oh hi, I'm being rude, who's your friend? My name is..."

Maybe. I don't know. I think if I was suspicious, I wouldn't say hi to him, because I would think he was lying to her about where he was at lunch and by me mentioning it to the wife, at least now her eyes are open to the possibility that Jim is up to something. Because I innocently told her he was at the Cheesecake Factory with blondie at 2pm, and he told her he was at a board meeting all afternoon and would not be able to be reached on his cell. That should be enough to alert her to the fact that something is amiss. What she does with the information is her business. At that point I would think the conversation would go to, "Do you think Jim is cheating on me?" Depending on our friendship-- if we aren't very good friends, I would expect her to ask that question of someone else entirely, while saving face with me.

 

After that, it's not my responsibility unless we are really good friends and I agree for some reason to help her investigate the situation. Which I don't think I want to. This is getting stressful. Jim is a jerk!!!

 

I don't see how any "shooting the messenger" can come from telling a friend that you saw their husband eating lunch. You would certainly mention seeing him if you saw him eating lunch with a guy, right?

[Realist3]

I recently have been thinking about the fact that some people either knew about the A or had good reason to suspect something improper was going on and they said nothing to me about it. I'm not sure what to think about that. Or whether or not to discuss it with them or just put it on the pile of disgusting things that happen during an A that I have to look the other way at.

 

The people that this bothers me the most with is WS's parents.

 

Background: there was infidelity in their marriage. They did not D right away but did a few years later. As I said they knew or had good reason to suspect something was up with WS.

 

The reason it bugs me is they seem to be close to me. But I guess of course, it's their kid. So not that close. I just think a heads up would be appropriate. Maybe that is too much to expect though. What do you think?

 

Not bothering me as much is a friend of WS. We have friends that I would consider to be our mutual friends. This one is not. It is really just WS's friend. Same sex person. The person is always very nice to me and I like the person but have very little interaction with the person. So I think in this case it would be almost inappropriate for the person to have told me that something was up. I guess. Now that I say that though I wonder. Maybe I'm going to easy on this person.

 

 

There is such a thing as minding your own business.

[JustAReformedGirl]

I guess my point from my example above was that its not my place to pass judgement or even suspect Jim is having an affair, but if it makes me suspicious, (and I am not just being a vindictive troublemaker), then I should provide my friend with the same factual information I have that made me suspicious, so that she can then get suspicious (or not) on her own, and do whatever she wants to with the information.

 

What if I am just uninformed, and it is Jim's niece who recently moved to town, and he is helping her look for a job and they have been meeting for lunch a few times a week? Wife knows all about it. No problem.

 

What if it IS an ongoing affair, Jim meets with her 2x aweek and takes her to a hotel after lunch, the woman is a Craigslist escort and is HIV positive?

 

Maybe I should have in this scenario, gone up to Jim at the restaurant and said, "Hey, how are ya? Haven't talked to your wife in awhile. Oh hi, I'm being rude, who's your friend? My name is..."

Maybe. I don't know. I think if I was suspicious, I wouldn't say hi to him, because I would think he was lying to her about where he was at lunch and by me mentioning it to the wife, at least now her eyes are open to the possibility that Jim is up to something. Because I innocently told her he was at the Cheesecake Factory with blondie at 2pm, and he told her he was at a board meeting all afternoon and would not be able to be reached on his cell. That should be enough to alert her to the fact that something is amiss. What she does with the information is her business. At that point I would think the conversation would go to, "Do you think Jim is cheating on me?" Depending on our friendship-- if we aren't very good friends, I would expect her to ask that question of someone else entirely, while saving face with me.

 

After that, it's not my responsibility unless we are really good friends and I agree for some reason to help her investigate the situation. Which I don't think I want to. This is getting stressful. Jim is a jerk!!!

 

I don't see how any "shooting the messenger" can come from telling a friend that you saw their husband eating lunch. You would certainly mention seeing him if you saw him eating lunch with a guy, right?

 

 

This is a good post. Idealistically, the messenger shouldn't be shot in this scenario, though I am certain there have been cases as you have just described that ended that way.

 

Remember, even if you innocently mention something like that, if you turn out wrong about it, both parties may still become upset with you.

 

Not justifiably, mind you. The potential BS, if they overreact from the info you passed on to them (resulting in separation, or some other negative impact), might opt to blame you, rather than themselves for jumping the gun. Likewise, the potential WS too might become upset with you, assuming from their spouses' reaction that you said more than you actually did.

 

In short, it boils down to the people that make up the couple not taking responsibility. The blame wouldn't actual be on the messenger, in your scenario...but the messenger might find themselves being treated as such.

[Betterthanthis13]

This is a good post. Idealistically, the messenger shouldn't be shot in this scenario, though I am certain there have been cases as you have just described that ended that way.

 

Remember, even if you innocently mention something like that, if you turn out wrong about it, both parties may still become upset with you.

 

Not justifiably, mind you. The potential BS, if they overreact from the info you passed on to them (resulting in separation, or some other negative impact), might opt to blame you, rather than themselves for jumping the gun. Likewise, the potential WS too might become upset with you, assuming from their spouses' reaction that you said more than you actually did.

 

In short, it boils down to the people that make up the couple not taking responsibility. The blame wouldn't actual be on the messenger, in your scenario...but the messenger might find themselves being treated as such.

 

That's all true- but the way I see it is, what if I didn't suspect anything? Not a thing. Then I wouldn't withhold information about seeing Jim anywhere, right? If Jim is a Cheaty McCheaterface, that has no bearing on me seeing him at lunchtime and mentioning it to his wife. And if I do suspect, and he is cheating, and don't tell, now I am an accomplice. So if I would say I saw him if I didn't suspect, and the fact that I suspect is what is keeping me from telling her that I saw him, I am doing a selfish, wrong thing by simple logic.

 

So which is worse? People being irritated at me? Being wrong about something? Or being an accomplice to adultery and the possible infection of an STI to an unknowing person?

 

That's a personal choice, everyone has their own ethics and their own way of determining right and wrong, I personally don't care if people get irritated at me for illogical reasons, and I have no problem apologizing when I am wrong. I mind my own business when it comes to good things, for example if someone comes into a lot of money I don't ask them how much or expect them to pick up the tab. But if I see someone getting hurt I can't mind my own business, don't even get me started if its a child, elderly person, handicapped person or animal.... but that's me other people feel differently. Ill take the loss of friends or people hating me, fine. Whatever, I don't care, I can't just turn the other cheek and look away while someone is getting hurt. I would have to take way too much medication to be able to process that.

[JustAReformedGirl]

Betterthanthis, I agree with you. You brought up a good point. I was merely playing devil's advocate, explaining why some "messengers" might balk.

[findingnemo]

I guess my point from my example above was that its not my place to pass judgement or even suspect Jim is having an affair, but if it makes me suspicious, (and I am not just being a vindictive troublemaker), then I should provide my friend with the same factual information I have that made me suspicious, so that she can then get suspicious (or not) on her own, and do whatever she wants to with the information.

 

What if I am just uninformed, and it is Jim's niece who recently moved to town, and he is helping her look for a job and they have been meeting for lunch a few times a week? Wife knows all about it. No problem.

 

What if it IS an ongoing affair, Jim meets with her 2x aweek and takes her to a hotel after lunch, the woman is a Craigslist escort and is HIV positive?

 

Maybe I should have in this scenario, gone up to Jim at the restaurant and said, "Hey, how are ya? Haven't talked to your wife in awhile. Oh hi, I'm being rude, who's your friend? My name is..."

Maybe. I don't know. I think if I was suspicious, I wouldn't say hi to him, because I would think he was lying to her about where he was at lunch and by me mentioning it to the wife, at least now her eyes are open to the possibility that Jim is up to something. Because I innocently told her he was at the Cheesecake Factory with blondie at 2pm, and he told her he was at a board meeting all afternoon and would not be able to be reached on his cell. That should be enough to alert her to the fact that something is amiss. What she does with the information is her business. At that point I would think the conversation would go to, "Do you think Jim is cheating on me?" Depending on our friendship-- if we aren't very good friends, I would expect her to ask that question of someone else entirely, while saving face with me.

 

After that, it's not my responsibility unless we are really good friends and I agree for some reason to help her investigate the situation. Which I don't think I want to. This is getting stressful. Jim is a jerk!!!

 

I don't see how any "shooting the messenger" can come from telling a friend that you saw their husband eating lunch. You would certainly mention seeing him if you saw him eating lunch with a guy, right?

 

I see what you're saying. If it was just saying you saw X having lunch at Y place with Blondie, then there's no harm. I always tell my friends about encounters with the Hs. Isn't that the norm? Why would I not say anything? Usually it is their reaction that will alert you that something is wrong.

 

If I suspect something, that's another matter. I would investigate further if BS is close to me. If not, I'd store the info in my head and shut up. But even when I decide to tell the BS, I would do it in person so that I can comfort them and/or stop them from committing a crime of passion.

 

I struggle with knowing when telling is gossip and when it isn't. I've experienced backlash from telling the truth to help a young woman who was going nuts. The WH still HATES my guts and it all happened long time ago.

[Betterthanthis13]

Betterthanthis, I agree with you. You brought up a good point. I was merely playing devil's advocate, explaining why some "messengers" might balk.

 

I wasn't trying to be argumentative, I just went into a random rant mode for some reason I think the idea of people knowing about affairs going on left and right and not telling BS's just irks me.... All these thousands of people sleeping tonight somewhere cuddled up next to their cheating spouse thinking everything is just fine and dandy, and their friend or family member KNOWS but won't tell them? Ew.

[Betterthanthis13]

I see what you're saying. If it was just saying you saw X having lunch at Y place with Blondie, then there's no harm. I always tell my friends about encounters with the Hs. Isn't that the norm? Why would I not say anything? Usually it is their reaction that will alert you that something is wrong.

 

If I suspect something, that's another matter. I would investigate further if BS is close to me. If not, I'd store the info in my head and shut up. But even when I decide to tell the BS, I would do it in person so that I can comfort them and/or stop them from committing a crime of passion.

 

I struggle with knowing when telling is gossip and when it isn't. I've experienced backlash from telling the truth to help a young woman who was going nuts. The WH still HATES my guts and it all happened long time ago.

 

It's so amazing how that works isn't it? The cheater is pissed off, not at himself for, ummm, being a cheater, but at you for telling on him. What a great guy!

[JustAReformedGirl]

I wasn't trying to be argumentative, I just went into a random rant mode for some reason I think the idea of people knowing about affairs going on left and right and not telling BS's just irks me.... All these thousands of people sleeping tonight somewhere cuddled up next to their cheating spouse thinking everything is just fine and dandy, and their friend or family member KNOWS but won't tell them? Ew.

 

I kind of figured that was the case, so no worries. And in the case of knowing, I absolutely agree. If they know for certain, there is no reason they should keep silent-not if the person being betrayed means anything to them.

 

A lot of people's hearts will be in the right place, or they'll be torn about it, and not do what they should. Sad, but true.