his shame Posted November 1, 2004 Posted November 1, 2004 need some help and perspective on what's finally ended a very meaningful relationship. i was engaged to marry a man whom i've dated for almost a year now. i recently broke it off, not being able to handle his obsession with my past. i worked as an exotic dancer over 20 years ago, for only a few months, as my husband was dying, i had 3 babies to raise, and was unable to keep my children without a way to raise money quickly. it came down to losing my children, as i could not support them, save our home, and pay his medical bills, even working multiple jobs. i told my fiance' about my past within the first month of our relationship. he was fine with it for the first several months. the last few weeks, however, he truly became obsessed with my past, calling me "immoral", and said, and wrote terrible things about that time so long ago. i am an accomplished, intelligent woman, and have overcome many obstacles in my life, and went on to create a wonderfu career for myself as a professional. i am a very moral person, more than most, and although i regret things having had to come to that as a way to survive and keep my babies, as my husband was dying, i am not ashamed of what i did. it is a part of who i am, and although i don't agree with the objectification of women, i don't feel it was morally wrong, under the circumstances i was in. as time passed, my fiance's obsession with this worsened, and he felt the need to continually remind me of how immoral i was, and although i tried my best to answer his questions, it was slowly killing my spirit. i began to take on his shame, and that time in my life, so long ago, that is something i made peace with many, many years prior. after begging, pleading and asking him to stop obsessing, and most importantly, stop bereating me about my past, he said he was unable to and said he could not control it, and i needed to help him work through it. we broke up several times during this all, and although i continued to say that if his hurtful comments didn't stop, i would have to permanently end things to save my spirit. it was literally killing me, and i was internalizing his shame about that time in my life. he said he "couldn't help it", and the comments, questions, and accusations of how immoral it was continued. recently, i felt myself losing my "light" or spirit, as i couldn't function in the present constantly being reminded and judged to be "immoral" by the person who was supposed to love me. i finally did end it, and the break-up happend only a few days ago. this hurt, has been the most painful thing i've ever experienced. it's taken me back to a time that i had peace about, within myself. throughout the whole thing, he said i "needed to help him work through it", although nothing i said or did seemed to help, and the topic was always brought up. for him, even though i explained over an over the circumstances, it was unacceptable to him, and to me, i felt "unacceptable". i've led a very moral life, and this is the first man i've been with in 7 years, as i was saving myself for the "one". none of that seemed to matter, and everything i am, have accomplished, was overshadowed by his need to share his torment over my past. now that i have finally ended it, he is saying i ended it, when honestly, i felt i had no choice to survive. it was literally taking away all my self-esteem, slowly, but surely. he seems to think that if i really loved him, i would continue to "help him understand". after trying so long, i finally realized that the obsession would never really go away, and i found myself feeling his shame. to me, this is not love. i am proud of who i am, where i've come from and the person i am. the break-up happened just a few days ago, and we have maintained contact, that's making it all harder. he still maintains i was "immoral", and he could not control his thoughts, actions and words. within those few days, he has made no attempt to make this whole thing easier to get through, as he is sure to bring up how many women have hit on him, how many have offered him sex, and how desirable he is. he is already searching for someone else, and i can't help but feel i meant little to him. getting through something like this is hard enough, but being told about his hopes for his next love so quickly, is all too much to handle. i am at a weakened state of mind now, and it's all brought up shame i didn't carry before about that time in my life. i'm totally devastated, angry and hurt, that he truly feels it was my job to help him understand, and that he feels the need to remind me that he's already looking for someone else. why was he able to handle my past for so long, and then suddenly, not able to? why didn't he tell me in the beginning that it bothered him that much? how do i regain my spirit when i feel it has been so badly battered? has anyone ever gone through something like this, and if so, how did you handle it? i honestly felt that if i continued to be tormented and ridiculed, that i would eventually lose my core "self". he does not seem to understand this, only that i "gave up". how is he able to so quickly move on to the next person, while the hurt i feel will take much longer to process? at this point, i feel much resentment torward this man, and feel that no one has the right to judge someone so unfairly, without looking at his own past. he did many things i found to be "immoral", but to me, it is the past, and no one is perfect except God. since all of this has escalated, i know i need counseling to rid myself of his shame. how can someone say they love you in one breath, and then tell you you are "unacceptable" in another. to me, this is not love. i cannot change the past, and prior to this relationship, was proud of the person i am, and the person i've become through perserverance and my love of God. now, i feel raped, in a sense....raped of the peace i had about this brief time in my live, over 20 years ago. has anyone experienced anything like this? if so, any suggestions would be appreciated. i'm just trying to pick up the pieces of my broken heart, and my beaten down spirit at this point. add to that, his ability to "replace" me so quickly, makes all the pain i endured in trying to help this man understand my unique situation all those years ago. i'm left feeling i have to justify myself to be worthy of love...that's not a good place to be in. i can't help but feel when he tells me about his search for his next love, that i went through all this hell for nothing. to me, this is not love. help! i'm hurting deeply, and wish i could think about a future relationship so quickly, but i can't. the damage that's been done runs deep. at times i feel like he is saying these things to hurt me further for "leaving him", as he puts it. to me, i had no choice....for if i continued to accept the emotional abuse for his obsessive thoughts, i could not survive and function as a healthy person, both mentally, emotinally, and spiritually. i just couldn't be with someone ashamed of me.
innocntlisy1981 Posted November 1, 2004 Posted November 1, 2004 hmmm firstly he isnt seeing other women he is just saying that to get you jealous so you come running back!!and its working!!my fiancee passed away i was with him for quite sum time after a whiol i got into a relationship and like ur man mine was very under standing at first but then after a while he started to throw thiing in my face about tha man i loved so dearly that passed away.i think he was jealour of a person who wasnt even living anymore!!he constantly chucked my old relationship im ny face amde me feel bad about arguments me and tha decaesed had(my new boyfriend knew the deceased they were friends)said i was **** when he met me ai was such a mess and if it wasnt for him id bee in a loony bin he also sais im a nut case and need help!!hello hes tha jerk that needed help how could he treat me like this after what i had been through.anyway honey i dont know what to say in my case all i ever did was cry and cry for tha hurt i was feeling now but mostly for the hurt always asking myself what did i do to deserve this jerk i want my life back again.dont feel bad about tha past how dare he make u feel like this after what u have been through and its not like u had a choice!!one thing io hjave leart is it never changes he will keep conbstantly putting u down and make u feel ****.u deserve so much better than this jerk will ever offer you let him go he aint worth it u deserve sum1 who will stick by u thick or thin.man this is making me so angry reminds me exactly of what i went through!!i to left my man and now hes doing exactly tha same ringin me up and saying he can have this and he can have that blah blah blah.he using reverse physcology cos he wants me to cum running bak well i got news for him stik it!u are not immoral you are a decent human bein trying to make tha best out of a f*****d situation and i think u did alrite until u met this piece of cr**p.take care of urself huney u deserve better
overseas2004 Posted November 1, 2004 Posted November 1, 2004 I had a similar situation once where I guy I was dating read my diary. He found out that I had had many more partners than he was ready to believe. We started to fight and he startet to insult me and say similar things about needing help to get past it. I reacted a little bit differently. I did not let it go into some long saga of break up and patch up. Instead I told him "this is who I was, its not who I am anymore, the only thing that matters is us, if you cant accept that ... walk away.." And then the clincher I said "if you bring up my past one more time in a hurtful and unconstructive way, you will be out of my life". Later we had a discussion about that bad period of my life, which I had also laid to rest. I tried to help him see the reasons about it. We stayed together for many years afterwards and he never brought it up again. We broke up for other reasons, my reasons. And so the bottom line is that I honestly think that men arent ready to hear about their women being loose immorally. I do not bring up my past with me, because its none of their business and I dont feel morally obligated to do so. However, if you have to, then you should not allow them to berate you for it. You did the right thing. Now I only think you need to end this line of conversation with him and for that matter end all other forms of communication. As long as you are talking to him, you are prolonging the rather naturally thinking process that he needs go through. You can not help him get over it. Only he can help himself. And I think there is a good chance that he will. He knows who you are and he knows the reasons he asked you to marry him in the first place. Those reasons will come back to his mind once you are gone for good. And there is a good chance he will patch it up. But you got to leave him alone. Also, I would not be so concerned about his boasting about other women. He is displaying an obvious flaw in his charachter here. He feels like he needs to prove to you that he is desireable. I dont think he really is going to go to bed with any of those women offering him all this right now. It is rather transparent dont you think?
Guest Posted November 1, 2004 Posted November 1, 2004 My first response would be to ask why you would even WANT someone who 1) gets really hung up over something you did briefly 20 years ago and for a VERY good reason 2) calls you names and 3) treats you like crap by telling you about all these women who want to have sex with him. HE is the immoral one, not you. HE is the insecure, really immature one. If he can't handle your past and get over it, or stop throwing things in your face, tell him to go pound sand. You can do better. I know it hurts, but it won't hurt forever, and you really deserve someone better and not so high-strung and bitchy, especially for a man.
Author his shame Posted November 2, 2004 Author Posted November 2, 2004 dear ladies, thank you so much for your replies. i badly needed some perspective on this, since it seems, i've lost mine lately. i guess it's not my peace about that time in my life that i lost, but i gained shame and guilt. it's been just awful. he said he had 3 choices in the beginning...1.leave because he couldn't accept it. 2. accept it. 3. stay, and hope he could accept it. he said he choose the latter, hoping he could learn to deal with it. he also said, then when he realized he couldn't deal with it, he should have let me go, rather than "make me help him understand, and feel his pain about it". a bad situation. the thing that's the hardest to undertand is why this became so important so late in the relationship...i guess it's because it all became an "issue" after he asked me to marry him. that caused all kinds of thoughts, of him wondering if he wanted to marry someone who could do that. i know you all don't know me. i'm not the "stripper" type, and only did this for 4 mos. my husband was in a coma, and i "talked" to him, crying, telling him what i had decided to do. they were going to put the kids in foster care as we were losing our home. he was in a ward, dirty, and forgotten, and i went on to become an rn/bsn, just after his death, and began to put myself through college with the kids all under age 5. no, you're all right. i didn't feel like i'd done something "shameful"...at least until lately. i prayed about it constantly, prayed to get through it and prayed for my husband to live. no, i don't think it's a good profession for women...i know what it does, and can do, and i've seen the "seedier side of life". i don't think it's immoral...maybe i should. i just think it's sad, because it makes women feel like they're objects, and takes away their self-esteem. the only thing that got me through it was my love of God, who was always with me. i guess that's why i have peace about it. i knew God was with me, felt it, and it's the only way i could do what i did, as shy as i am. it was short-lived, and served it's purpose. saved my home, kept my husband with medical care, and most of all, saved me from losing the most important love of all...the love i have and had for my children. i think he gets it now, but he's said that before, and truly, i don't think the obsessive thoughts would ever go away. after one session of counseling with a priest, he was "cured". then the questions, judgements, and descriptions of his obsessions started within a day or two. then a visit to a very well renowned pshychologist, with an emphasis on God, and spirituality. again, he was "cured", only to have it come up again. finally, i couldn't take it. i can't help but think that him thinking he was "cured" was only a mask...a way to get into my heart again, and again, make me feel his pain. yes, i do think he has "issues". issues of control, trust, and lack of maturity. i think being a nurse, i truly wanted to help him, but NOT at the cost of being punished for what happened so long ago. yes, i know i'm a good person. to me, i couldn't have done that...if you all only knew how hard it was...if i wasn't able to put my own needs aside out of my love for my children. somehow, that's not reason enough for him, and he tells me that to say i was "close to God" during that awful time, is contradictory. he just doesn't get it, and honestly, if he hasn't by now, knowing how badly this has hurt me, he never will. unfortunately, it didn't end there, and the questions were always about what he imagined..."i can't believe you could be in that "sex business" and not do other things...like porn, prostitution, lap dances, favors, etc. truth be told, i didn't, and i stayed in the back and was always being threatened with being fired. they'd find me hiding back there. each night, i left alone, and couldn't wait to get home and shower, and lie down next to my little miracles....my babies. he said he couldn't stand the thought of so many men seeing me naked and even went so far as to calculate how many men it may have been. no matter how much i tried to explain, the worse it got. he sent me statistics..."most men, 9 out of 10, can't be with a woman who's been in the sex industry". i tried to tell him that those numbers were most likely based on women in it longer, and for other reasons, doing other things...none of that mattered. he started saying it was making him physically ill, and swears he had 2 heart attacks or episodes directly related to his thoughts about it all. more guilt. yes, i know the fact that he's bragging about his sexual conquests, or desirability, shows lack of self-esteem, and that leads to wanting to feel better by making me feel worse. it's a cycle, and i'm ready to get off the ride. the strangest thing of all is that he's been with women who have done things i think are worse...having threesomes, and him having multiple one-night stands. none of this bothered me...for no one is perfect, the past is the past, and although it makes us who we are, you can't function fully in the present while continuing to live what was over 22 years ago. yes, i told him because i loved him, and wanted to be open and honest, totally with this man. what started out as somehting so beaufiful, and ending this way, is sooo hard. yes, i think i need at least short term counseling to re-gain my spirit. no, i'm not weak, and i have never allowed anyone to take away that part of me that's proud of who i am. i do think that the shame that i've been attacked with...and yes, that's how it felt...will take time to process. no, i'm not ashamed of who i am, or what i did, but after listening to something sooo long, you begin to change the way you think about yourself..slowly at first, and then it almost imperceptively gets worse over time. yes, i think he's sorry about what this all has done to me, BUT, and that's the biggest part of all of this, i don't truly ever forsee him being able to work through this enough to stop imposing the hurt he feels on me...at least in a relationship. he says he wants to be friends, and honest to God, i don't know if i can be friends with someone who put me through so much, and at it's core, thinks i'm "shameful". the thing i've learned through all of you, and your wonderful ability to "see" me even with just my words, have helped me immensely to begin to heal. my biggest regret now is having finally given myself to him, intimately, after months of dating, and saving myself for the right person and feeling like i gave my "gift" to someone who didn't appreciate it. i wanted the first time, after sooo long, to be special. now, i just feel bad about it. if i'd known how he felt, i never would have been intimate with him. it's like, i saved myself for the the one person that i truly loved, and who truly loved me, only to find out he didn't. to me, to hurt someone like this was never really love, at least not on his part. that's what hurts the most. seven years is a long, long time to date, and refuse to be intimate, only to finally share that part of yourself with someone, and then to find they are ashamed of you, and capable of trying to destroy you. i know it wasn't intentional, but it still hurts. i've not let anyone get that close to me, ever, and was only able to do that because i trully believed he was going to be the one i'd spend my remaining time with here on earth. to trust someone so fully, that you bare everything to them, and then have it used to hurt you, is a very painful experience. yes, i know i'm not responsible for his feelings, and with my extensive psych backround, tried and tried to help him see. i honestly believe he has obsessive compulsive traits. the compulsion was to relieve the stress of the obsession, and since he was too ashamed to tell anyone that he was engaged to someone who did what i did, he was unable to share it with anyone but me. i even told him, it was ok with me to talk about with others if would help, and that i was not ashamed to have him share that if it would give him another outlet for it all. he refused...saying he could never admit to any of his friends that the his "beloved" would actually do something so "dirty". sooo....i became his sounding board, and worse, i became the one who he felt had to feel all the pain he felt. impossible. at this point, i guess i should consider this a blessing and not a bad thing. i honestly believe that if something that happened sooo long ago, and under the circumstances i was in, would always obsess about something. and yes, i do agree...people who feel bad about themselves, feel the need to make others feel worse so they feel better in comparison. not very healthy. at this point, he continues to call, and write in emails, and it makes me feel angry at him. i'm not the kind of person that allows myself to fester anger. it isn't healthy. i need to let go of the anger, let go of his shame, and re-gain all i've lost. i have no hopes for reconcilliation. after trying sooo long, i've finally realized that there is NOTHING i can say to change how he feels, or how he is reacting. i feel like i have to protect myself from him, to the point of not wanting any contact at all. is that strange? sooo much work to do on my part to get over this all...something i truly had peace about. i guess when you add to it, the dreams i had of a future filled with happy memories, love, and family, and it's just hard, no matter how you look at it. anyway, i'm sorry to go on like this. i have never felt such pain, that i needed to post on the internet for perspective. although my words are just that, words, i do thank you all for the support, and even though we will never meet, you have all helped me so much in getting through this. thank you for listening and being open and caring enough to help a stranger. thank you for your compassion. it means more than you all can really know. please post if there's anything you think may help in healing now. "now" is all we really have...the past, is gone. the present is reality, and the future, not here yet. i am determined to get through this, to go on, and to live my life with my head held high. thank you....
zara Posted November 2, 2004 Posted November 2, 2004 okay, this may sound harsh but you really DO NOT need to beat yourself up over this!!! Morality is an individual thing and we all have our own personal moral codes, none of which are right or wrong, just different. This is not your problem, it's his and quite frankly, he's welcome to it! I am a stripper and i consider myself to be a decent person. I also have a decent full time career but i am heavily in debt so i dance to get myself out of that situation. And heck, i enjoy it! This doesn't make me a terrible person, or loose person, (people i know who don't strip have more lovers than i could ever imagine!) it makes me independent and proactive. And that is exactly what you are. My ex had major insecurity issues - he would put me down to make himself feel better and seek attention from other women. And he couldn't handle my stripping. You say that you are not the "stripper type" well, you should know that there isn't a "type" the dancers i know are intelligent, independent, smart women who use their talents to pay their bills and all power to anyone who does that. You are right to be proud of who you are and that includes what you have done becasue it has all informed the wonderful person you are today.
VivianLee Posted November 4, 2004 Posted November 4, 2004 Bless your heart!! You have had alot to deal with on and off in your life, I admire you for doing so well. The only setback in the last 20 yrs you seemed to have had is meeting this jerk. I don't think he was tortured at the thoughts of what you did as much as he enjoyed torturing you. He is just as cruel, evil and abusive as he would have been if he bashed you in the head the whole time. You come across in your posts as an intelligent woman that knows what she wants and can handle things but like any person, he got you wrapped into some serious head games. He was able to torture you mentally and still have you fall in love with him and want to marry him. Thank God, he showed this side of himself before you married. I just hate that you had to waste so much time and energy on this evil person when there is no doubt someone out there that will love you. If a person can't love you for the past, present and future, then they aren't meant for you. Please stop the abuse NOW...stop letting him contact you so he can continue to torture. This man doesn't love you. You deserve better. You did what you had to do 20 yrs ago and if you are at peace at that then don't let anyone else give you pain or grief about it. Hang in there but please...don't let this man back in your life and stop letting him torture you. I know you are having to get over it and it's hard but think of the relief you are going to feel not having to defend your actions and having to put useless time and energy into "helping him get over it"... Please keep us updated as to how you are doing!! Take care and God bless!!
SoleMate Posted November 4, 2004 Posted November 4, 2004 Like Vivian said, your past is your past. And please, let's keep this in perspective. I sure wouldn't want my daughter to be a stripper, but of all the things that people do to survive, this has got to be one of the more benign. It's not like you dealt harmful drugs, molested children, committed murder, or in fact even really hurt anyone but (possibly) yourself. ...he seems to think that if i really loved him, i would continue to "help him understand"... Hunnhh? He doesn't understand the sacrifices that a mother will go through to feed and clothe her children, and keep them with her? I just can't imagine any decent person holding this against you. ESPECIALLY not someone who claims to love you. I certainly don't. If I had no other choices, and it was a matter of survival, I would do exactly the same. He was destroying your peace of mind and undermining your self-esteem. THAT'S NOT LOVE. And here's the perspective you have asked for....You are a courageous and moral person, and you deserve someone who will understand that, and honor you for your strength. You have faced hardships that most of us haven't had to encounter, and yet you haven't given up, and you have chosen the best path at every turn! (Your only misstep was getting and staying involved with someone who didn't value you.) A breakup is almost always painful...even if your head KNOWS it is absolutely necessary and right. But I have a feeling that your regrets and pain over him will be lifting fairly soon. Good luck, better days ahead!
Author his shame Posted November 5, 2004 Author Posted November 5, 2004 he is ever-present in any way he can find in my life. he continues to "push" me wanting reconcilliation, under the guise of "helping" me with a sizeable disaster here. i was unwilling, certain of this, and asked him to stay away, but he pushed, again and again, and i fell for it. i told him there was NO CHANCE of reconcilliation, and that i didn't want his help because i didn't want to be around him...i was hurting too badly, and too angry. he said he understood, and expected NOTHING in return, and just wanted to help, regardless, and apoligized for hurting me. when the work he did to help, didn't change the way i felt, he got upset, and finally left. it's been a very long last few days, and ended with him telling me i'd regret my choice...that my life had been a string of choices starting with my choice to strip, and ending with my "choice" not to be involved with him in any way. this is worse than anything i've been through so far with him. when he realized that his help wasn't getting him what he wanted, or any reaction at all, he became sullen, angry, and depressed. "didn't i see how hard he'd worked? didn't i care he was almost killed in an accident? didn't i care that his hands were torn up from working? on and on...it was sooo bad, that i was actually afraid of him...afraid of what he would do in that state, afraid of how he was so unable to "hear" what i was saying..."stay away from me, if you want to help, help, but realize that i can't give you what you want". he finally said he came with intentions of getting me back, and even brought the ring with him, hoping. he said.."you can't blame a guy for trying". he was so pushy i was actually scared, and wonder if this will ever stop. he said he "couldn't help me" with the disaster here if i didn't love him. i told him that when he wouldn't leave me alone. he came into my bedroom, as i lay there after coming home from the hospital from injuries trying to pull up wet carpet. begging me, and telling me he loved me and always would...crying. he came into my home without waiting for me to come to the door, saying he'd just totaled his car, almost killed a woman and her child, like somehow it was my fault. it's very hard to explain how he acts. he denies it, and no doubt, doesn't even realize it. just like the "heart attacks", and the fact that "he'll never be able to look at something as precious to him as his mother's ring, that was sized for me" without being reminded of the love he's lost, so it was "ruined for him". like when he said "you should at least love me for all i've done to help you", and "you are making a choice, and until you're dead, it's still a choice", or "think about what the consequences of your actions are...loss of a husband, loss of health insurance, loss of the ability to repair the flooded home, loss of basic medical care, loss of half of all i have", ....all of these statements made me finally realize that he was in essence trying to "buy" my love. when he realized that he couldn't and i was beyond being able to feel bad about his "accident, and his feelings of "deep depression", and "devastation", that he could "no longer help me here". letting him "help" is entirely my fault, even when he assured me he had no other motives, i should have known. even though i kept saying NO, he kept pushing, saying God told him to help me. i finally gave up, and said you're going to do what you're going to do regardless of what i say...and he spent 2 days "helping". i tried my best not to react, not to engage, and esp., and not very successfully, not to let how angry i was come out. it did, and i didn't handle it very well. i felt pushed into a corner, and the bottom line was that if i didn't love him, he wouldn't help. fine. i told him i didn't want his help and was clear that if he had other intentions AT ALL, he shouldn't have come. when he realized that i meant it, and the love i had for him was really gone, he said he "couldn't morally help someone that didn't love him, and "hated" him". i told him, i didn't hate him, but felt sorry for him. he said he felt sorry for me too, for losing him. although he said he "was sorry for what he'd done to me, and would have to live with it", when i said "don't feel guilty, it isn't productive,", he replied he had no guilt, and said, "i just made a mistake and had been forgiven by himself and God". to have done all of this and see it as a simple mistake was a clarifying moment to me. he truly does not "get it", and never will. i didn't realize it was "conditional help", and wouldn't have let him do it if i'd known. his reply..."my love was conditional also, for i gave up on him, and us, by not allowing him another chance to deal with his demons". i felt like i was talking to a crazy person...i don't know how else to describe it. i'm in a bad position right now, and the longer the wet home sits, the worse it gets. i'm disabled, from my years of working with dying AIDS patients in the hospital, and have limited funds. the flood was something that compounded with all i've gone through with him, was truly pushing me over the edge of what i could handle. i've lost all perspective on things. he told me he talked to his friends, his ex's, who, "by the way, all still love him, and didn't that tell me something about his character??, to leave, and not to help with the repairs or help me". i agreed, totally, and said i couldn't accept help if it was conditional on the fact that i'd go back with him. i asked him "why...why didn't he tell me this BEFORE starting it all, ...his reply, "that's when i thought you still loved me". he went on to say that i was one of the few ex's that he wouldn't be in contact with, along with the one that had an affair on him, and in that sense "he was sorry to say, i was in her category". he told me he would never bother me again, and yet, still called, to be sure i understood what i was "choosing". again, i tried to tell him that my "choice" was not a choice at all, but my natural reaction to protect what "spirit" i had left. he told me that is not a normal reaction, but a "choice". he even called once more, to let me know that he was really leaving, and how badly he was hurting....how devastated he was, how sore he was from working and the accident. my response..."ok, ok, just go". i feel like i'm losing my mind with this man. i can't "feel" anything anymore even when he tries his best to make me feel his pain. it's like i'm "immune" to it now. i feel like he is toxic to my spirit, and his problems are layers deep...deeper than i knew, and deeper than i can even begin to understand...entitlement, control, judgement, manipulation, passive aggressive, hystrionic... my daughters are just plain worn out from the whole saga, and i have no one to talk to about all of this. i spent the last 2 nights with the phone in my hand, ready to dial 911, afraid he was lurking somewhere. that's insane. hang up calls, over and over. fear of him getting into my home. i know i've lost all perspective on this, and can't deal with this man any longer. i know the calls won't just stop, and feel in my heart, this will not end yet. i don't answer the phone. i am afraid to answer the door. i feel like i'm becoming just as crazy as he is. i'm sorry to go on like this. i've just never experienced dealing with someone who seemed so sane, that now seems almost insane to me.
zara Posted November 5, 2004 Posted November 5, 2004 Your post seems coherent and insightful and you should NOT doubt yourself over any of this. You recognise that this man is not healthy or good for you in any way - he obviously wants to subjugate you and has issues with control and dependence that you really can not afford to be involved with. I am sure that if you make it clear to your daughters that you have reached a resolution on this that they would be there for you on this - they just do not want to see you continually hurt by this man and if you make it clear that it is now over then i am sure they'd rally round.
neptoon Posted November 5, 2004 Posted November 5, 2004 I believe this man is mentally ill. Seriously. He's preying on your fears, filling you with shame and guilt so that you will be "thankful" if he comes back. He has no intention of going anywhere because he believes he can use the stripping leverage point to control you psychologically. It's a common element of abuse. He wants to believe that he's saving you from your past. You have absolutely no reason to be ashamed of doing what you have to do. I've had a number of friends who were strippers -- some were in it because of drugs and others were in it because of necessities of life. It was your moral obligation to provide for your children. You used it as a stepping stone to better your life, as you became an RN after. I'll even go a step further to say that you ought to be proud of yourself -- you got yourself through some pretty hard times. If you feel that he may be stalking you, notify the authorities of it and tell everyone around you what you think. You don't need counselling for your past -- you need counselling from this man's psychological abuse.
amalia50 Posted November 5, 2004 Posted November 5, 2004 Hey, girlfriend, I can relate to your problem. I too was a stripper for awhile in my college days. My past has also cost me some relationships. I seem to meet either good men who can't seem to deal with what I did in the past, or a**h***s who actually get off on me being an ex-stripper. Your guy probably does or did love you, but simply couldn't get past your past. (altho I understand why you did what you did). If you no longer love him, then it's best to let him go. As far as the way he's acting, he's probably losing his mind because he's losing you. People act and do crazy things when someone they love stops loving them. This fear you have of him is something you have to overcome. He doesn't sound like the type of guy who'd hurt you physically (although I'm sure he's hurt you mentally). Being in love with someone, yet being ashamed of her past must have caused quite a mental conflict in his head. He probably, like alot of men, thinks stripping is immoral and degrading and sinful, etc. And men like that can't handle a stripper's past. When he finally comes to conclusion that it's over, and he really loves you, I'm sure he will let go. You sound like a strong and intelligent woman. Time will heal you. As far as being an ex-stripper, hey, what's important is you being okay with it. I'm sure somewhere there's a man for you who would understand.
tokyo Posted November 5, 2004 Posted November 5, 2004 his shame, there´s no shame, but the obsession of a controlling man who - if you hadn´t committed the "crime" of being a stripper 20 years ago - would have found another reason to criticize and demean you, be it the neighbor who is greeting to you, be it the co-worker who talks too much with you, be it one of your son´s friends who comes to your house. Jealousy is irrational and doesn´t need any real reason to justify it´s existence, it makes them up. I don´t strive to be a stripper, but I understand that you did it for very good reasons, you thought it was the best solution in a very difficult situation. I don´t know what I would have done in such a situation... And even if there was no reasons than just earn a couple of bucks quickly, this is 20 years ago, it´s simply not his business. Whatever he says, it´s not his business. He is using it as a weapon to control you, your insecurities, you love for him, your weakness, he´s using it against you. His demands for you feeling his pain are ridiculous, I´m sure you felt his pain, but so what? What does he expects from you more? If he´s not willing to get over it, what are you supposed to do? Flagellate yourself? Jump into a time machine and change the past? He´s clearly emotionally abusive. You should tell him not to contact you at all anymore, his negative influence is poisoning your life. Get over it and don´t worry about it. If you have a daughter then ask yourself if you would want a guy treat her like this and if you wouldn´t want this happen to her, then don´t let anybody ever do this to you. Good luck kooky P.S. Please make paragraphs as it is really really hard to read such long post without having some breaks in between....
musicman Posted November 7, 2004 Posted November 7, 2004 Hi, I am the fiance who this thread is about. I was searching for some advice on this site when I came upon my ex-girlfriend’s message. First I’d like to say that, despite the fact that you all have condemned me and advised her to have nothing more to do with me, I do really appreciate your concern for her and your sympathy for the condition she’s in. She truly is a wonderful person who’s had lots of bad things happen to her. It deeply saddens me that I - someone who loved her very much - was yet another sad chapter in her life. Before you all condemn me, please know that there’s lots of information that’s been left out and I also have a side to the story. But I won’t discuss that, because this is about her, not me. Again, thank you all for helping her out - she really needs outside opinions regarding this situation. I guess I have to say I mostly agree with all of you. I had the problem - not her. When we split up, I was beginning to go to therapy and I’ve since continued. (As a matter of fact, I had a wonderful session today!) I had therapy once before, after a woman I was falling in love with was murdered by an ex-boyfriend, and the Psychologist helped me get through that. Although I now know that our wonderful, loving relationship is over (thanks to me) I am continuing my therapy so I don’t hurt anyone else like this in the future. Just so you know, I have stopped communicating with her - no calls or emails. I sent her one letter - a check for 1000.00 - to help her buy supplies to fix her flooded trailer. I will totally respect her wishes and not contact her. But she knows that if she needs any help, I will take her call or answer her emails. She is an amazing and strong person who’s faced numerous obstacles and conquered them. We honestly had a beautiful relationship with hopes and dreams of the future. It was my fault that it all ended. I know that now. And I know that she will conquer this and in no small part due to your generous thoughts and advice. the ex-fiance p.s. an extra thanks to overseas2004 and amalia50 - you guys went easy on me!
amalia50 Posted December 27, 2004 Posted December 27, 2004 As I mentioned in an earlier post, I was a stripper for about a week. I was desperate for money and I felt like stripping was a good way to make fast money. After doing it for a week, I was so repulsed by it and my feelings of shame were overwhelming. Why? Because according to the Bible, it is immoral and sinful to sell your body in order to lustfully stimulate men. And stripping is something that affects your whole life and your future relationships. I'm still ashamed about what I did 15 years ago. And several of my relationships have suffered for it. It's really hard for a nice guy to accept the fact that a woman has done that. You said you were not the stripper type. Well, if you're willing to expose your breasts and vagina to a roomful of strange men for money, you're the stripper type.
dynamicdrew Posted January 4, 2005 Posted January 4, 2005 This is a great thread and deals with an important issue I think. There should be some things pointed out here though. I too have dated an exotic dancer and girls with previous exual experience. I should say that I had more respect for the dancer for at least she was getting paid for her services, rather than doing just to do it, like most of the tramps (not a judgement of my own, but that is what they are I guess) of our day. Naturally, anyone who says that stripping is the only way to make fast cash, that is a cop out. But our society does not provide women with equal pay for equal work, and give women a hard time when they seek maternity rights, so it is our society that leaves these women with such a limited option: stripping. To the ex-fiancé: Instead of focusing on your ex-girlfriend's past, let us work instead to change things in our society, so that women, our mothers, girlfriends, sisters, daughters, cousins, aunts, etc. will not have to resort to stripping to provide for their families.
amalia50 Posted January 7, 2005 Posted January 7, 2005 I disagree with this whole 'poor me' thing that strippers try to get away with. They chose to strip - no one forces them. I'm sure there are plenty of other women who are struggling and who need to feed their children, however their morals won't allow them to take their clothes off in public. No one has to strip. Society's not to blame - everyone has choices. This woman took the easy way out and made money being a slut up on stage in front of sex-hungry men. And she has the nerve to say she's 'shy' and not the 'stripper type'?? A shy stripper? That's laughable! How can you dance naked in a room full of men and be shy? To the ex-fiance, be glad this one's over - you dodged a bullet by not marrying her. Never, never trust a stripper or an ex-stripper. They know how to play men for their money and then they just move on to their next sucker. Find a woman with morals and good values. Leave the strippers to the a**h***s who get off on them.
zara Posted January 7, 2005 Posted January 7, 2005 I wasn't going to dignify your post with an answer, but what the hell, i'm bored... Strippers are women earning a living. Period. We have morals, husbands, kids and everything else that any regular woman does. We are often more decent and principled than many women who go out and lie, cheat, steal, sleep around and manipulate men. Our transaction is simple: We take our clothes off and act as though the man in front of us is the most attractive in the world in return for money from aforementioned man. We don't say "I love you" or ask for flowers, dinner, jewellery. It's no different than going to the ballet, it's entertainment. Many of us are lucky enough to date/ marry men like Drew, who understand that what we do is just a job, using our assets for economic gain and we are just as much princesses as any woman out there. Your bitter view is truly sad and what makes the original poster of this topic feel bad about her choices when she should be applauded and proud for having the guts and ability to survive and look after herself. Anyway, i'm done here - LS seems to have too many people spilling out vitriol instead of advice and support these days.
amalia50 Posted January 8, 2005 Posted January 8, 2005 I was merely making the point that this woman can't have it both ways. I mean, come on, a 'shy' stripper getting through her 'ordeal' with her Bible??? Stripping is as immoral and un-Christian as you can get. A true lady shares her body with the man she loves, not with strangers in a disgusting, seedy club. She chose to strip and then she plays this 'poor me, I did it for my children crap'. There are plenty of women in a similar situation who find public nudity immoral, and they manage to work things out without degrading themsleves and their families for a few dollars. If you want to be a slut and work as an Adult Entertainer, then do so and be proud of what you do. Don't do it and then justify it using your children as an excuse. After all, what child would want the world to know his mother was a paid slut?
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