Heather1028 Posted August 3, 2013 Posted August 3, 2013 I suspect that my husband is engaged in a long term affair with a woman he works with. I have had suspicions in the past but somehow I convinced myself that I was wrong. He is a good husband and he is good to me and our boys. We spend a lot of time together and we even have a respectable love life considering that we have two full time jobs and 3 kids (2 grown boys in college still living at home and one still in grade school). My husband does disappear for hours at a time which is explained by the type of work that he does. For various reasons I now believe that he is very careful and very clever at keeping this under wraps and that it has been going on a long time. My recent suspicion began when he called me and accidentally left his phone on. I answered but he did not hear me - I could tell the line was still live and then I heard a woman's voice and I almost passed out when I thought I heard him say "we should get a hotel next week". The two of them were in the car and it sounded like they were grocery shopping together of all things. I decided that I needed proof. I did confront him a few years ago about this same woman - and he lied so I felt he would lie again if I did not have evidence. I have been checking his cell phone calls - he talks to this woman and they text many times per day. He NEVER mentions her name in my presence - and based on what I have found out about her they would have a lot in common so the fact that he never mentions her is odd. I have other clues but nothing concrete. I have peeked at his cell on occasion since and he meticulously deletes all messages from her or to her. He also watches his phone like a hawk. I am dying to know the truth - I feel so betrayed but at the same time I have doubts and I want hard evidence before confronting him so there is no room for doubt. I feel that if I confront him with no real,proof he will bury it even deeper and I will never know the truth - I want him to face up to this. Am I wrong?
JustAReformedGirl Posted August 3, 2013 Posted August 3, 2013 Are you sure you heard him and a woman talking? Might it not have been an ad on the radio? Or was it without a doubt, his voice? It sounds like something might be up. I can't be too sure, but if he's that careful to delete texts, and winds up talking to this woman often, I'd be concerned. Of course, their talks and texts could be work-related, but it's hard to say. I'd definitely suggest finding hard evidence, first. Like you said: if you bring it up, you'd only be tipping your hand. If that happens, he'll go even further to hide the truth from you. I don't suppose you can hire a P.I. service? 1
Mickey_Fitzpatrick Posted August 3, 2013 Posted August 3, 2013 I heard a woman's voice and I almost passed out when I thought I heard him say "we should get a hotel next week". The two of them were in the car and it sounded like they were grocery shopping together of all things. he meticulously deletes all messages from her or to her. He also watches his phone like a hawk. I am dying to know the truth I want hard evidence before confronting him I 100% guarantee you he is cheating. The sure sign of a cheater - meticulously deleting every text and call from this woman and the phone is attached to him like it's part of his body. Never seen or heard of anyone doing this and NOT cheating. Buy a voice-activated recorder and some strong Velcro. Put it in his car, under the seat. You will have your answer in less than a week. 1
Realist3 Posted August 3, 2013 Posted August 3, 2013 I have been checking his cell phone calls - he talks to this woman and they text many times per day. He NEVER mentions her name in my presence Chances are yes, they are involved in some form. I would suggest you do more investigation.
whichwayisup Posted August 3, 2013 Posted August 3, 2013 Listen to your gut. Hire a PI or ask a trusted friend to follow him. Borrow money if you can't afford a PI. Once you find out the truth, go from there.
Author Heather1028 Posted August 3, 2013 Author Posted August 3, 2013 Thank you - I think I need to trust my gut feeling. I just cannot reconcile this with other aspects of his behavior toward me. It has been so hard to act like nothing is wrong when this would be such a monumental betrayal on his part. And I guess a part of me just wants to hold on to the fairy tale of what we were when we married because we were in love and we were meant for each other. I know that maybe we could get past an affair if that is what this is, there are things that you never get back.
whichwayisup Posted August 3, 2013 Posted August 3, 2013 What you could do is (and this is just an idea) tell him you know he's having an A and for him to pack a bag immediately and get out. To GO to his OW and that you're going to speak to your lawyer. Even if you don't 'file' he doesn't need to know that. See, he won't change or anything until there are consquences and HE suffers. You can tell him ' what do I need to do? Catch you in act? I'm not stupid. I KNOW you're having an A. You hide your phone, you're distant and moody, you delete texts. If you are in love with her and not with me anymore, then let's divorce and you can do as you please.' Then wait for his reaction. The thing is, if you can follow through on this, it might shock him enough to wake him up and realize what he's about to lose. Give it some thought, just an idea. Don't sit and wait, do nothing because it's going to drive you nuts. 3
BetrayedH Posted August 3, 2013 Posted August 3, 2013 Buying a voice activated recorder (VAR) is standard advice. They are relatively inexpensive and easy to use. I've also been told that placin it under the seat can result in poor reception; placing it under the steering column is another suggestion. It is common for affair partners to talk to each other on the way to work and the way home. Personally, I bought a GPS unit, placed it in my wife's car and caught her at a hotel from 10pm to midnight on the first data download. Those run about $250 but you have to retrieve the unit from the car and download the data. You can buy "real-time" trackers for about $500. Expensive? Sure. I borrowed the money and sure as heck didn't care about the expense when I discovered her year-long affair. PIs typically cost about $250 an hour so you kinda have to get it right the first time (in terms of telling them when to trail him, etc.) As others have said, trust your gut. And yes, deleting texts and guarding the phone are the usual res flags. You should also look at his internet history, phone/text records, and financial records but if he's careful, you won't see much beyond the volume if texts to one another. I don't recommend confronting without solid proof. Cheaters lie, deny, minimize, gaslight, and lie some more. Confronting just makes them take it further underground or stop until the dust settles. The rule for these things is for you to keep your mouth shut, play stupid and happy, and gather undisputable proof for yourself so you can make an informed decision. If you blow this one chance, you may never know the truth. 4
Author Heather1028 Posted August 4, 2013 Author Posted August 4, 2013 Thank you for the advice. I do plan on trying the recorder in the car because based on call history that I have access to on line a lot of calls take place to and from work. And strangely, as devastating as this will be if confirmed to be what my gut is telling me, I just cannot understand how the other woman would put up with this because my husband does spend a lot of time with us (his family). Is it wired that I wonder this? Plus it seems as if he genuinely wants to be with me- and yet I am starting to think that having her on the side, if true, is a way for him to affirm his virility and manhood somehow because he is terrified of growing old. I am NOT excusing his behavior if he is cheating, but trying to make some sense of this. In some ways he behaves like a classic cheater...and in other ways not...
Author Heather1028 Posted August 4, 2013 Author Posted August 4, 2013 And yes I believe that this is my one chance to learn the truth. That is why I want solid evidence before tipping my hand. It is odd but I am finding it terribly easy to act completely natural like nothing has happened while I am trying to gather evidence. We are affectionate and comfortable with each other for the most part and I only fall apart if he is out and I suspect he may be with her...but it is fleeting and I am fine when he returns. Maybe I will cry my heart out if I do find proof. I just know that I want the truth. 1
JustAReformedGirl Posted August 4, 2013 Posted August 4, 2013 It's only natural that you want to make sense of all this. I'm glad you're not excusing his behaviour, if he is being unfaithful; it is good that you want to understand things from his perspective, in the event your marriage can be salvaged (and of course, if you want to salvage it). I don't think it's weird that you're thinking the way you are on the matter; everyone copes differently. This might just be your way, though I'm sure many others have also gone down the same path-or close to it. Hang in there, okay? *Hugs* 1
Realist3 Posted August 4, 2013 Posted August 4, 2013 Buying a voice activated recorder (VAR) is standard advice. They are relatively inexpensive and easy to use. I've also been told that placin it under the seat can result in poor reception; placing it under the steering column is another suggestion. It is common for affair partners to talk to each other on the way to work and the way home. Personally, I bought a GPS unit, placed it in my wife's car and caught her at a hotel from 10pm to midnight on the first data download. Those run about $250 but you have to retrieve the unit from the car and download the data. You can buy "real-time" trackers for about $500. Expensive? Sure. I borrowed the money and sure as heck didn't care about the expense when I discovered her year-long affair. PIs typically cost about $250 an hour so you kinda have to get it right the first time (in terms of telling them when to trail him, etc.) As others have said, trust your gut. And yes, deleting texts and guarding the phone are the usual res flags. You should also look at his internet history, phone/text records, and financial records but if he's careful, you won't see much beyond the volume if texts to one another. I don't recommend confronting without solid proof. Cheaters lie, deny, minimize, gaslight, and lie some more. Confronting just makes them take it further underground or stop until the dust settles. The rule for these things is for you to keep your mouth shut, play stupid and happy, and gather undisputable proof for yourself so you can make an informed decision. If you blow this one chance, you may never know the truth.]/b] Listen to what he said and take it very seriously. Trust me, evidence can be very hard to come by especially when someone is trying to hide it. If you go in half ass, you will never get anything. You have to get what you need while the defenses are down. 3
Artie Lang Posted August 4, 2013 Posted August 4, 2013 (edited) to be totally honest, all the signs are there..... you said it yourself. i think you've been in denial for some time, only you can't deny these suspicions any longer. like they say, "ALWAYS trust your gut." i think you need to do some real digging, now. Edited August 4, 2013 by Artie Lang 2
HopingAgain Posted August 4, 2013 Posted August 4, 2013 I am so sorry. That is exactly how my Dday happened. My husband accidentally answered a call from me while with other woman and I heard them talking and yes he was cheating with her. I hope you get your confirmation soon so you won't be tortured not knowing anymore. 1
BetrayedH Posted August 4, 2013 Posted August 4, 2013 (edited) Thank you for the advice. I do plan on trying the recorder in the car because based on call history that I have access to on line a lot of calls take place to and from work. And strangely, as devastating as this will be if confirmed to be what my gut is telling me, I just cannot understand how the other woman would put up with this because my husband does spend a lot of time with us (his family). Is it wired that I wonder this? Plus it seems as if he genuinely wants to be with me- and yet I am starting to think that having her on the side, if true, is a way for him to affirm his virility and manhood somehow because he is terrified of growing old. I am NOT excusing his behavior if he is cheating, but trying to make some sense of this. In some ways he behaves like a classic cheater...and in other ways not... Yes, it's pretty normal for you to wonder about the other woman. It's easier to put blame on someone that you don't know rather than your husband (whom you may be motivated to forgive). Just bear in mind that while she may well be guilty of being a partner in betraying you, it was ultimately your H's job to keep his pants on. Figuring her out should be secondary, if it's relevant at all. Too many betrayed spouses pin too much of the blame on the other person while offering cheap forgiveness to their wayward spouse. As for why she would accept being a side piece, there's a myriad of possibilities. It could be a "just sex" relationship but that doesn't typically last long. More commonly, the OW is told to be patient, that he wants to wait til his kids are older, that he doesn't want to leave you around your birthday (Christmas, your anniversary, the kids' birthdays, blah, blah, blah). Some married men do a lot of "future-faking." If you read on the OM/OW forum, you'll get a better understanding of the range of possibilities. As for why your H could be having an affair, I typically see three things at the core of almost all of them: severe conflict avoidance, an excessive need for external validation, or an overdeveloped sense of entitlement (or a combination of these). It may have little or nothing to do with you or the state of your marriage. The logical, ethical, healthy, moral options would be to fix the marriage or leave it. Many betrayed spouses are completely blindsided because the one thing that cheaters pretty much universally lack is the courage to address problems. Instead, they just go get their own "needs" met elsewhere. It may be wise for you to keep reading and learning about affairs while you investigate and before you confront. If you find out there is an affair, what are you going to do? It's wise to have a clue before you go there. This is a time in your life when it's critical to make decisions with your head, rather than with your emotions. Edited August 4, 2013 by BetrayedH 3
Author Heather1028 Posted August 5, 2013 Author Posted August 5, 2013 Thank you to everyone who took time to post in response to my admittedly self absorbed rant. I have to say just getting it off my chest has been therapeutic because I have not breathed a word of this to anyone I know. I am not ready to face it and probably I am I. Denial I suppose, but I will not bring this out into the open until I know for sure what is happening. Anyway, thank you again-
Author Heather1028 Posted August 5, 2013 Author Posted August 5, 2013 In response to betrayed h above, I actually do not blame her for this if true- I mean I do judge her for making the choice to be with a married man with kids- but yes this is on him. I meant that I cannot understand why she would not be making more demands on him to spend time with her. He does slip away at times, as I mentioned and he is very clever and there are a lot of built in plausible reasons for him to come and go late at night. But he always sleeps at home.
Artie Lang Posted August 5, 2013 Posted August 5, 2013 idk, but it sounds like you know more than you let on. like i said..... denial, maybe. you know what you must do-- DIG!
Author Heather1028 Posted August 5, 2013 Author Posted August 5, 2013 Yes I can see how that might come across. I have a lot of clues but nothing absolute. I am going to keep searching.
BetrayedH Posted August 5, 2013 Posted August 5, 2013 I meant that I cannot understand why she would not be making more demands on him to spend time with her. He does slip away at times, as I mentioned and he is very clever and there are a lot of built in plausible reasons for him to come and go late at night. But he always sleeps at home. As I said, there could be a variety of reasons why. She may be one of those 'good' other women that know their place and don't ask for more than the married man can provide. But more likely, it is a daily struggle for her. Many times his 'dedication to his family' is something that endears the other woman to him. He may play on her sympathies and waffle back and forth about how much he loves her but can't do this to his kids. Honestly, from my reading there are far too many OW that will accept this treatment for years. I kinda see a trend where frustration and desperation really sets in for them after about 3-4 years. It's remarkable and when they've been fed SOO many lies, I really do start to feel sympathy for them even though they've made these choices consciously on their own. But really, who knows? My wife's affair was with her boss. They were high up in the company enough that they would leave the workplace twice a week for 'meetings' and have sex in hotels. She never really spent a night with him either except for on one of my relatively rare business trips. Bear in mind, the need for 'stolen moments' really intensifies the excitement level of the affair. Not being able to be together all the time creates a sense of longing and excitement. It also tells her that 'he must really love me if he's taking all of these huge risks to see me.' And so they don't ask too much and would never consider betraying him; they help keep the secret. The counter to a lot of this is holidays. It drives them crazy to sit at home while he's on a family vacation with you, or Christmas, etc.. I read somewhere that Valentines Day is the most common day for affairs to be discovered because the man is basically forced to try to steal away some time for his other woman. But invariably, other women do end up spending some time at home sulking while he is with his wife. What's common is for the MM to claim that the wife is an awful person with whom he hasn't shared a bed in years. Again, he's just staying for the kids (whom he loves SOO much). 1
Author Heather1028 Posted August 9, 2013 Author Posted August 9, 2013 So I used a VAR in his car and I overheard a very disturbing conversation and obvious kiss - not just a peck on the cheek. He lied about where he was going and I heard him lie to her about where he had been (at home with me) and other things - it was amazing to hear him lie to her so as not to hurt her feelings about spending time with his own family. To make a long story short and spare you the details, I was sure about what I heard and I confronted him. I completely lost my cool. I was in the car and when I came home I was still yelling into my telephone and my grown year old son overheard something. My husband was with my younger son and both boys ended up very upset. My husband told me I had it all wrong and he was with group of people I heard stuff out of context etc. - he almost had me talked into believing I was wrong. Anyway it was horrible. I apologized to the kids - I told them it was not they imagine and that regardless it was between dad and me. Now that I listen to the recording I am still pretty sure I know what I heard. He is still lying. Only now I have tipped my hand and still have no real proof. I also know now based on what he said that he seems to put his family at the top of his priority list- I know that sounds bad but it is clear he was panicked when I suggested he may want to leave-he pointed out he spends most of his free time with family and we are the most important thing in the world to him and every good thing in life he has is because of me and how could I accuse him of this. I have dropped it for now. But I am still in so much pain. I believe I would forgive him but I don't think he will ever confess I have no certain proof but my gut tells me I am right. I want my life the way it is, my family and my home. Anyway, there it is.
BetrayedH Posted August 9, 2013 Posted August 9, 2013 The urge to confront can be pretty overwhelming, obviously. What sucks is that your situation is pretty typical. If you confront too early, they will lie, deny, minimize, and gaslight you (look that one up). The usual approach he will take now is to tell his OW that he has to lay low. And they will coordinate stories. Does she have a husband or boyfriend? If so, telling him what you know may help. But again, the affair partners have probably coordinated stories and formulated a plan for this. Usually, she will tell her husband that the wife of one of her "friends" has completely lost her mind and is making paranoid accusations of an affair. Sadly, if your "proof" is not definitive enough, the other woman's husband will tend to believe her and disbelieve you. You may be best off to play dumb and employ other methods to catch them again. GPS units and keyloggers come to mind. 1
HopingAgain Posted August 9, 2013 Posted August 9, 2013 You know what you heard! Come on, believe in YOURSELF! I caught mine almost the exact same way only by accident and he tried to talk his way out of it too! Don't let him do this to you because you don't want to believe it! I know it hurts but you HEARD his voice lying and talking to her. You heard the kiss. Don't try to persuade yourself otherwise. You have the proof you need. Tell him to come clean or get the hell out, and MEAN it! Once he knows he can't weasel his way out of trouble the truth will start to come out Listen to the VAR again if you have to convnince yourself. I am so sorry. 2
Author Heather1028 Posted August 9, 2013 Author Posted August 9, 2013 Yes, I do know what I heard. I can't say I have no doubts, but I totally get the gaslight reference above. I am not the jealous type and all the snooping the last few weeks and betraying the trust of someone I should trust implicitly by placing a recorder in his car has just felt wrong. It has also been emotionally exhausting. I cannot believe that he would let me feel like I was totally to blame because he seems to feel like that is the only way to keep me from knowing the truth. Don't get me wrong I do not feel that I am in the wrong. But he was clearly willing for me to feel that way to keep from confronting this. Trust me when I say that outside of THIS he is a caring, kind and loving man.
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