jlola Posted August 1, 2013 Posted August 1, 2013 (edited) Today, I thought about the fact out of 6 people in my family, 3 are cheaters. My father(numerous affairs,1 produced a half sister with MOW 3 doors down),my sister(who has been married 5x) and my half sister(who had affair baby with MM while she too was married and tried to pass baby off as husbands). while my mother, I (single and happily dating )and my other sister (who has been married forever to the love of her life) would never consider cheating. I then thought about all the cheaters I know. Most of the cheaters are the ones in the relationship I would have bet would cheat. Why? their personality. I often wonder why OW/Om think the cheater is such a great person. Perhaps the cheaters like my father and my sister have an amazing way of twisting reality so they appear the victim. Especially when it is a one sided view which can rarely be disputed. I then wrote down the types of personalities most likely to cheat. I find it amazing so many will claim it is BS's fault or something they did wrong. Personality types are often much more to blame than the marriage. Cheaters often project their negative traits onto the BS. So the BS becomes the person who possesses .Well ,according to the cheaters anyway and OW/OM eat it right up. What traits are more likely to be ingrained in cheaters: Selffishness Entitlement/Ego Emotional immaturity Unrealistic expectations of what a marriage entails Love and romance addictions(love the chemical highs of new relationship) Serial monogomous Narcissist Bi-polar Controlling Low empathy Low self esteem(seeks validation) Sociopath Borderline personalities Histrionic personalities Emotionally unaware Sex addiction Immoral Did I miss anything?? But some STILL cannot understand no matter how happy a person may be in the marriage, it is what is the lack within that makes them cheat. Edited August 1, 2013 by jlola 8
beyond Posted August 1, 2013 Posted August 1, 2013 Totally agree with the last sentence. I would add to your list 'inability/fear to be single/not in a relationship'. I would also say, that woman or men that are with cheaters and stay with them, need to realise what it is in themselves that accepts this behaviour.
sad puppy Posted August 1, 2013 Posted August 1, 2013 I disagree, I don't think people that are "happy in the marriage" cheat. Sure, there may be a small percentage that have sexual addiction, but the majority are quite unhappy and oftentimes, the marriage has run it's course. And actually, many people are trapped in a sexless marriage. Unfortunately, when people are in unhappy marriages, instead of either going to counseling or having the balls to end the marriage, they resort to cheating. That's called cowardice. They don't want to rock the boat, but resort to cheating for sex, affection, because they love someone else, ... Bottom line - they are selfish cowards. But I do heartily disagree that they are in "happy marriages". Betrayed spouses have a vested interest in promoting this theory. People become complacent in marriage. It's not unusual for the betrayed spouse to have THEIR own needs met, unaware that their partner isn't getting their needs met. That's why the betrayed spouse is so stunned, why they assume they were in a "happy marriage". They just don't realize or consider that their spouse isn't getting their needs met. Bottom line, though, cheaters are selfish cowards. 2
It-is-what-it-is. Posted August 1, 2013 Posted August 1, 2013 This is so interesting... I used to believe that there must be something wrong in the marriage that drives a person to cheat. I know know that is not true. Cheaters are dealing with their unhappiness by cheating. That COULD include unhappiness about their marital life. But it could be their job, feeling old, whatever INTERNAL unhappiness. Maybe it's their personality...I have to think on this a while.... That is why BS get so pissed that some how the affair, of which they had no part some how gets blamed on them....like wha..what? IF for example, the marriage WAS rocky...they were BOTH in that marriage...did they both chose affairs to resolve? Ah no. If for example the marriage was not rocky...that puts even more blame on the BS for not knowing what's really wrong with their poor widdle spouse. See my point? WS and OP create a common enemy in the BS. They often put negative traits onto the BS so the affair can feel justified, or for the WS look like a poor deserved victim who just had to cheat to get what they need. I read here and elsewhere the OP putting blame on the BS all the time. And I am perfectly certain that BS are bitchy, lovely, wonderful, vindictive people. The betrayal makes them no more a hero, victim or devil than they were prior. But I get irate when an OP or WS is appalled that a BS does not just accept with grace that the affair happened and the marriage is over. Because its one more way to blame the victim. Affairs are a selfish act of putting your wants before others. I think people are more and more selfish every day. We want what we want, and to hell with being kind to our fellow man, or promises or commitments and we will justify our actions to make sure we get what we want. It's so hard to reconcile that selfishness with it being a father, mother, sister, brother,friend, child who is doing it? Someone we want to think is a good person, who makes us laugh? Because I am perfectly certain that WS/OW/OM are bitchy, lovely, wonderful, vindictive people. The their actionl makes them no more a hero, victim or devil than they were prior. 6
IfWishesWereHorses Posted August 1, 2013 Posted August 1, 2013 I think you're on to something. I would add risk-takers and attention whores to that list. 3
fanine Posted August 1, 2013 Posted August 1, 2013 There is also of course the situation where certain cultures seem to accept affairs as not being a problem. My xMM is cuban. I found out along the line it is very, very common for cubans to have more than one relationship at a time. I am not saying all, I am not making a sweeping generalisation. I have spoken to a cuban female friend about this as well, who will not date cuban men here in the uk because of their infidelity. It seems fine to have a wife, and a girlfriend (s)... I visited Cuba. One day we were looking for my xMM's friend. We had to visit 4 different houses to find him as he had 4 women! I don't know if they knew about each other. His cousin had 2 girlfriends and everyone talked openly about it. One day we went to a woman's house. She was introduced as his cousin's sister. I was confused. Oh I was told, she was the daughter his cousin's dad (his uncle) had with another woman. We also found out on one visit that my xMM had in fact 2 other half brothers he never knew about. And will never find as they had left Cuba, and had had not kept contact with his father's family. We met a cuban woman who lives in Jersey - married to a guy there. We were on the same flight. In Cuba I saw her hanging around another man. Found out he was the father of her 12 year old daughter still living in Cuba. She lived with the man in Jersey for his money to send back home. Then would go home regularly and live with her boyfriend and kid. There are other examples too. Here in London I have been out in a group. Later found out the women of some of his friends, the girlfriends, were in fact their bits on the side. They all had wives at home. At the time I was in cuba I thought my xMM was single. I met his family out there. I found out afterwards they knew I was the girlfriend and that he had a wife and kids back home. They were lovely to me and accepted me as part of the family. Gave me presents, a special birthday.... All totally alien to me. No wonder he could not understand why I found it so difficult to be with him when he had a wife. It was a normal thing for him...
Author jlola Posted August 1, 2013 Author Posted August 1, 2013 (edited) I disagree, I don't think people that are "happy in the marriage" cheat. Sure, there may be a small percentage that have sexual addiction, but the majority are quite unhappy and oftentimes, the marriage has run it's course. And actually, many people are trapped in a sexless marriage. Unfortunately, when people are in unhappy marriages, instead of either going to counseling or having the balls to end the marriage, they resort to cheating. That's called cowardice. They don't want to rock the boat, but resort to cheating for sex, affection, because they love someone else, ... Bottom line - they are selfish cowards. But I do heartily disagree that they are in "happy marriages". Betrayed spouses have a vested interest in promoting this theory. People become complacent in marriage. It's not unusual for the betrayed spouse to have THEIR own needs met, unaware that their partner isn't getting their needs met. That's why the betrayed spouse is so stunned, why they assume they were in a "happy marriage". They just don't realize or consider that their spouse isn't getting their needs met. Bottom line, though, cheaters are selfish cowards. I agree cowardice is another reason. But when you begin to look into all the ones I have written and you connect the words cheaters with your search, you realize they all fit the mold. Selfishness and entitlement is actually one of the main reasons for cheating. Some people feel entitled cheat. Most cheating is basically greed and entitlement. There are many people who have more money than they can ever spend. But want more anyway. Greed is part of human nature. To say cowardice is the only reason does not look into human nature. People are immature, people are prone to being love and romance addicts, (9% have personality disorders which consist of low impulse control,bad boundaries,selfishness and manipulation. Too many people blame bad marriages. How about the cheaters that are not married? The one who are dating long term or engaged and cheat anyway? Are they so unhappy and in a bad situation? they can up and leave anytime. No bond, no kids. Noone wants to believe it can may be a part their character. People want to believe the BS must have doe something to make the cheater cheat. Because they want to feel secure it will not happen to them. people who date cheat too. Ask the countless men and women who are dating and think things are going great who find out their boyfriend or girlfriend is cheating. Unhappiness has become the excuse for everything. But happiness comes from within and it is when we expect it to come from someone else that we bring trouble. I cannot tell you how many people I know who have cheated,was left by their spouse and now look back with regret because they know the marriage was a good one. They just did not see it when they were married ,had unrealistic expectations and took their spouse for granted. I was watching a video at McDonalds once where I was appalled to see a group of basically little children called "Mindless behavior" (such irony) and a song called"Keep it on the low". One of many songs about cheating. Just can't believe they are starting kids out now thinking this is cool.Their cater to an audience of under 14. Main verses [Chorus]We gotta keep her, Gotta keep her, keep her, Keep her on the low Gotta k-k-keep her, Gotta keep her on the low Now even though I got a girlfriend But I wanna keep em both Gotta figure how to feed 'em Without messin up my flow! Gotta keep her, keep her, Keep her on the low Gotta k-k-keep her, Gotta keep her on the low Might just need one to chill with And one that lets it go "It's all about me,my wants,my feelings,my needs" is what people learn. Noone can have a happy marriage all the time. marriages ebb and flow. There will be low points and high points. If you are immature and cannot ride the low points, you cannot blame it on your marriage. Look within. Even parenting ebbs and flows. Somedays you want to kill the kids. Others, you think they are the sweetest angels. Noone's feelings are constant. Look, some people are in unhappy marriages and do cheat to cope. But it is not only cowardice that keeps them there, It can be the fact they do not want to lose their social standing,do not want to lose their level of living, too lazy to get out,like having a stable homs AND passion of a secret relationship. Not as simple as "cowardice". Edited August 1, 2013 by jlola 4
Author jlola Posted August 1, 2013 Author Posted August 1, 2013 There is also of course the situation where certain cultures seem to accept affairs as not being a problem. My xMM is cuban. I found out along the line it is very, very common for cubans to have more than one relationship at a time. I am not saying all, I am not making a sweeping generalisation. I have spoken to a cuban female friend about this as well, who will not date cuban men here in the uk because of their infidelity. It seems fine to have a wife, and a girlfriend (s)... I visited Cuba. One day we were looking for my xMM's friend. We had to visit 4 different houses to find him as he had 4 women! I don't know if they knew about each other. His cousin had 2 girlfriends and everyone talked openly about it. One day we went to a woman's house. She was introduced as his cousin's sister. I was confused. Oh I was told, she was the daughter his cousin's dad (his uncle) had with another woman. We also found out on one visit that my xMM had in fact 2 other half brothers he never knew about. And will never find as they had left Cuba, and had had not kept contact with his father's family. We met a cuban woman who lives in Jersey - married to a guy there. We were on the same flight. In Cuba I saw her hanging around another man. Found out he was the father of her 12 year old daughter still living in Cuba. She lived with the man in Jersey for his money to send back home. Then would go home regularly and live with her boyfriend and kid. There are other examples too. Here in London I have been out in a group. Later found out the women of some of his friends, the girlfriends, were in fact their bits on the side. They all had wives at home. At the time I was in cuba I thought my xMM was single. I met his family out there. I found out afterwards they knew I was the girlfriend and that he had a wife and kids back home. They were lovely to me and accepted me as part of the family. Gave me presents, a special birthday.... All totally alien to me. No wonder he could not understand why I found it so difficult to be with him when he had a wife. It was a normal thing for him... Fanine, I am so familiar with what you are describing. It really is so destructive and dysfunctional. You begin to see there is absolutely nothing positive about infidelity. Especially in these poor countries where it just continues the cycle of poverty,immorality,UNHAPPINESS. If unhappiness was the reason people cheat, wouldn't the BS get into the action too. Because I am sure she is UNHAPPY when she learns WS is a cheater. I also see in the culture the "dance " of the women always trying to keep the man happy.Happy,happy,happy. As though he is the only one allowed to be happy,while his WOMEN live with heartache and misery. But you better "shut your trap" if you want to keep status quo. You can't be demanding,you can't complain, you can't cry.you can't expect. You are a non person. The women all dance to keep the men happy,wife and mistress. Clean house,good cooking,look beautiful,sex when he wants it. The woman compete and he somehow has them believing everything is "her" fault. Just be happy he comes around since it is all about him. He gets 100% of his needs met by 2 people. BS/OW/OM get 50% of their needs met. But he is the UNHAPPY one. Yeah, it kills me when people say, Oh they cheat because the marriage is bad and they are unhappy. So is everyone supposed to dance for them and make them happy while he keeps them miserable? Gives them crumbs? No accountability for self? I don't get it. This person has deeper issues than he knows. Cannot see how destructive his actions are to his children,BS,OW/OM because again "It's all about me and my HAPPINESS".
fanine Posted August 1, 2013 Posted August 1, 2013 Fanine, I am so familiar with what you are describing. It really is so destructive and dysfunctional. You begin to see there is absolutely nothing positive about infidelity. Especially in these poor countries where it just continues the cycle of poverty,immorality,UNHAPPINESS. If unhappiness was the reason people cheat, wouldn't the BS get into the action too. Because I am sure she is UNHAPPY when she learns WS is a cheater. I also see in the culture the "dance " of the women always trying to keep the man happy.Happy,happy,happy. As though he is the only one allowed to be happy,while his WOMEN live with heartache and misery. But you better "shut your trap" if you want to keep status quo. You can't be demanding,you can't complain, you can't cry.you can't expect. You are a non person. The women all dance to keep the men happy,wife and mistress. Clean house,good cooking,look beautiful,sex when he wants it. The woman compete and he somehow has them believing everything is "her" fault. Just be happy he comes around since it is all about him. He gets 100% of his needs met by 2 people. BS/OW/OM get 50% of their needs met. But he is the UNHAPPY one. Yeah, it kills me when people say, Oh they cheat because the marriage is bad and they are unhappy. So is everyone supposed to dance for them and make them happy while he keeps them miserable? Gives them crumbs? No accountability for self? I don't get it. This person has deeper issues than he knows. Cannot see how destructive his actions are to his children,BS,OW/OM because again "It's all about me and my HAPPINESS". So true. My xMM would say to me, after I had found out he was married, well let's just be happy with what we have got, we can make the best of it. I will be free when I can....he also said I see people on television in far worse situations... so I basically spend the rest of my life living alone, seeing him maybe a couple of times a week and I should accept that? I should accept I cannot have a family? I should do exactly what he says basically because that makes him happy. Sod my own happiness. He did say once too, well if you do get married and have kids I will still see you!!!! As if yep, I would be in a marriage that I would want a bit on the side. I would not stay in a marriage if I wanted a bit on the side. I tried to explain this to him. I might as well have been speaking Chinese. These men think women are here to serve them. Even though I have a far better job than him, come from a really good background, I am successful and good looking and pretty much have lots of good things going for me. No, my role was just to be happy when he was free! And welcome him in with open arms. He would never plan. Just ring me out the blue most of the time. If I was busy - usually at work - I felt like I had to apologise as I was not there when he wanted to see me. He would often ignore texts or emails I sent him, either completely or only reply hours later. Yet if he called or texted me and I did not reply within about 2 mins I would get another call, several more texts until I did reply. If I ever even slightly complained he was not free he would be a ****. He would cancel short notice and I was not supposed to complain. There were times too he said he was coming around. Then he would not turn up and I would be waiting there at home wondering what was happening. I would try and call him and text - but he would not reply. Of course when I brought this up with him the next time I saw him, he brushed it aside. He was getting better with this as I did manage to get through to him all I needed to know what was happening....but anyway. Looking back at all this i think good grief why the hell did I allow him to treat me like this? I am a professional woman in my 40s. I am a strong person, living a vibrant life with many friends in a big city. It shows me I have to work on myself and work out why I allowed this to happen - and make sure it doesnt happen again. 3
Pierre Posted August 1, 2013 Posted August 1, 2013 Today, I thought about the fact out of 6 people in my family, 3 are cheaters. My father(numerous affairs,1 produced a half sister with MOW 3 doors down),my sister(who has been married 5x) and my half sister(who had affair baby with MM while she too was married and tried to pass baby off as husbands). while my mother, I (single and happily dating )and my other sister (who has been married forever to the love of her life) would never consider cheating. I then thought about all the cheaters I know. Most of the cheaters are the ones in the relationship I would have bet would cheat. Why? their personality. I often wonder why OW/Om think the cheater is such a great person. Perhaps the cheaters like my father and my sister have an amazing way of twisting reality so they appear the victim. Especially when it is a one sided view which can rarely be disputed. I then wrote down the types of personalities most likely to cheat. I find it amazing so many will claim it is BS's fault or something they did wrong. Personality types are often much more to blame than the marriage. Cheaters often project their negative traits onto the BS. So the BS becomes the person who possesses .Well ,according to the cheaters anyway and OW/OM eat it right up. What traits are more likely to be ingrained in cheaters: Selffishness Entitlement/Ego Emotional immaturity Unrealistic expectations of what a marriage entails Love and romance addictions(love the chemical highs of new relationship) Serial monogomous Narcissist Bi-polar Controlling Low empathy Low self esteem(seeks validation) Sociopath Borderline personalities Histrionic personalities Emotionally unaware Sex addiction Immoral Did I miss anything?? But some STILL cannot understand no matter how happy a person may be in the marriage, it is what is the lack within that makes them cheat. Ultimately it is all about memes and FOO. 3
HopingAgain Posted August 1, 2013 Posted August 1, 2013 This post is very insightful...I know when I was involved in cheating behaviors, I was completely selfish and egotistical, and my self esteem surely was not the best. You've observed this behavior in the people closest to you all of your life, so I know you do have a keen awareness of the behavioral traits of cheaters and you really nailed it with your list. These are some of the same things I battled to overcome and stay aware of, after observing them in my own FOO. And also traits that my husband has had as well and saw in his FOO. With some self examination, many people who are involved in infidelity should be able to recognize many of these things in themselves. 1
Eggplant Posted August 1, 2013 Posted August 1, 2013 I wonder how many people, upon entering a relationship, have some sense in the back of their head that their partner might be inclined to cheat because of their partner's personality.
Pierre Posted August 1, 2013 Posted August 1, 2013 I wonder how many people, upon entering a relationship, have some sense in the back of their head that their partner might be inclined to cheat because of their partner's personality. Check the family; FOO is a huge factor. If infidelity is common in the family then the person in question may have a ton of infidelity memes. 1
fanine Posted August 1, 2013 Posted August 1, 2013 I wonder how many people, upon entering a relationship, have some sense in the back of their head that their partner might be inclined to cheat because of their partner's personality. I know I never have - after 25 years or so of dating. I cannot think of a single time I have thought that about a partner. I am not aware that any of my ex partners cheated on me - and I did not cheat on any of them either... Since my MM I think that might change though. When we met he said he was single. It was rather more complicated than that...ended up too there being other women besides me and the W! I am going to stay off the dating scene for a while as I get my confidence back and I have far too much baggage at the moment, only being a few days NC. I do not want my experience with the MM to shadow my impressions of any future men I may meet. However I think I might notice the red flags a bit more. I don't think I will be paranoid about any man's behaviour but I guess if I see similar traits to the MM I might think well, this seems like a man who might cheat... 1
HopingAgain Posted August 1, 2013 Posted August 1, 2013 Check the family; FOO is a huge factor. If infidelity is common in the family then the person in question may have a ton of infidelity memes. I agree with this. It's very much an ingrained behavior if you grew up watching it, either you grow up being completely against the behavior, or you grow up thinking it is normal and don't even give it a second thought. 1
Pierre Posted August 1, 2013 Posted August 1, 2013 I agree with this. It's very much an ingrained behavior if you grew up watching it, either you grow up being completely against the behavior, or you grow up thinking it is normal and don't even give it a second thought. It happens. I have seen offspring of alcoholics that never touched alcohol.
Author jlola Posted August 1, 2013 Author Posted August 1, 2013 (edited) Check the family; FOO is a huge factor. If infidelity is common in the family then the person in question may have a ton of infidelity memes. Pierre, yes I agree,FOO is also big. Children will subconsciously do as they see. I also forgot to add depression(interesting that it can lead to cheating). Damsel in distress , another one. If I had a quarter for every guy I saw trying t rescue that poor damsel from a bad husband I would be rich. Fanine, I am so proud of you for opening up your eyes so quickly and trying to look within. It truly is a mindf**K and people who do not understand how the cheater is usually the one with the issues waste so much of their lives trying to save someone who really has to deal with their own issues. But people who cheat are very intune to finding empathetic OW/Om who will feel bad for them. The pity play is very common with cheaters. So is playing the martyr. They all seem to do that. As if "look at me, I love my children so much I am staying in this loveless situation even though I am so in love with you". It's never "I love my children too much to put them through the turmoil and pain cheating will cause". "I will either stay faithful or get out of my marriage". "But I cannot show the ones I love that cheating,lying,manipulating, causing anxiety to their parent,selfishness is ok,as long as I do it because I am unhappy". No, they would rather have a huge blow up, cause unimaginable pain. Allow the children to now have relationship trust issues. And guarantee even if they do get together with AP, it may take years before the children are able or willing to have any sort of relationship with OM/OW who they now associate with destroying their families. Ironically, this time when he or she finally separates is when some WS may then get angry at the children for not accepting AP and will see them less. They now are not so concerned about seeing kids everyday anymore. I have seen countless of MM who finally divorce, talk a good talk about missing the kids and blah,blah,blah. But after a few months with OW and after being forced off the fence, they hardly come see the kids anymore. Edited August 1, 2013 by jlola 2
Author jlola Posted August 1, 2013 Author Posted August 1, 2013 I agree with this. It's very much an ingrained behavior if you grew up watching it, either you grow up being completely against the behavior, or you grow up thinking it is normal and don't even give it a second thought. And now society is embracing cheating. What will happen to the next generation? I am so mad at McDonalds for choosing the video to play at many of their McDonalds locations. This was shown for months there on some sort of McDonals reel along with showing their employee of the month and other little innocent tidbits. How it made it in there, I do not know. But i do know it is catchy to little children and most "mindlessly" sing it and don't know what it means. But one day they will. A cheater's anthem. " Even though I got a girlfriend, I wanna keep em both, Gotta figure how to feed 'em Without messing up my flow!" 1
HopingAgain Posted August 1, 2013 Posted August 1, 2013 It happens. I have seen offspring of alcoholics that never touched alcohol. Right! It's funny you mentioned that too, One of my friends has a son whose Dad is an alcoholic. He is deathly afraid to touch the stuff, didn't even drink on his 21st birthday. So for some people it's a deterrant to see a parent fall prey to negative behaviors, and for others it draws them in like moths to a flame.
HopingAgain Posted August 1, 2013 Posted August 1, 2013 And now society is embracing cheating. What will happen to the next generation? I am so mad at McDonalds for choosing the video to play at many of their McDonalds locations. This was shown for months there on some sort of McDonals reel along with showing their employee of the month and other little innocent tidbits. How it made it in there, I do not know. But i do know it is catchy to little children and most "mindlessly" sing it and don't know what it means. But one day they will. A cheater's anthem. " Even though I got a girlfriend, I wanna keep em both, Gotta figure how to feed 'em Without messing up my flow!" It's definitely troublesome. For parents, it's a constant battle to teach their kids values that society no longer embraces, and to go against the grain.
Author jlola Posted August 1, 2013 Author Posted August 1, 2013 Sometimes I look at the news and think Wow! Who would have guessed WS was a cheater? I again rest my case when I say most cheaters I see are the As*h*le half of the couple. I'm sure the OW all think they were great guys. Jessy James,Sandra Bullock Tony Hawk and whoever he marries(usually his AP) Tiger Woods and Ellin Arnold and Maria Mel Gibson and wife David Letterman who is STILL with wife and admitted he was the A**! Ryan Philipe and Reese Witherspoon Christie Brinkley and Peter Cook Leann Rhymes and Eddy Cibrian Charlie Sheen (cheated with hookers) Claire Danes and Billy Crudup cheat with each other, then she cheats on Billy. Britney Spears and anyone she dates. Mark Anthony and Jennifer Lopez ( wed 1 week after his divorce and shortly after his wife gave birth) Also Jlo cheats with Ben Affleck while married to Chris Judd. Tons of politicians When are people going to stop looking at BS and blaming the victim. But completely ignore character flaws of WW and use the simple excuse he was "unhappy". To tell you the truth, most of the people on that list who are cheaters are probably the ones causing the unhappiness to BS. 2
ladydesigner Posted August 1, 2013 Posted August 1, 2013 jlola you have constructed a post that most BS' and AP's fail to see about the WS initially. Hell it took me 17 years to 'see' who my WH really is and it isn't pretty. The only thing I did know throughout our M was that my WH was irresponsible, insecure (although would act pompous on the outside) and needed validation all.the.time. Now after realizing the amount of A's and his behavior post DDay, my rose colored glasses shattered right off my face. My WH has very little empathy, is extremely passive aggressive and conflict avoidant and possibly has NPD tendencies. He was in IC, but I feel he still needs to work on himself more. Most of these traits are ingrained from my WH's abusive childhood. I don't think any of us do not come with FOO issues (family of origin). They always play into how two people interact in a relationship. I am not sure my WH will change for the better. I know he wants to and I hope he does, whether that is with me or without me. Everybody deserves to become a healthier person. 2
imbetteroff Posted August 1, 2013 Posted August 1, 2013 I am learning so much from this forum, I've spent the last day or so reading, there is so much useful information. There are so many things I understand now, I feel very lucky to have found this place. 2
Author jlola Posted August 1, 2013 Author Posted August 1, 2013 (edited) jlola you have constructed a post that most BS' and AP's fail to see about the WS initially. Hell it took me 17 years to 'see' who my WH really is and it isn't pretty. The only thing I did know throughout our M was that my WH was irresponsible, insecure (although would act pompous on the outside) and needed validation all.the.time. Now after realizing the amount of A's and his behavior post DDay, my rose colored glasses shattered right off my face. My WH has very little empathy, is extremely passive aggressive and conflict avoidant and possibly has NPD tendencies. He was in IC, but I feel he still needs to work on himself more. Most of these traits are ingrained from my WH's abusive childhood. I don't think any of us do not come with FOO issues (family of origin). They always play into how two people interact in a relationship. I am not sure my WH will change for the better. I know he wants to and I hope he does, whether that is with me or without me. Everybody deserves to become a healthier person. LD, I know exactly what you mean. My father is a malignant narcissist.Probably the worst kind because he was also sadistic. lack of empathy is big. But they sure can fake it in front of the right people. It really boggles my mind how so many just want to simplify the cheating as the fault of BS. Thank you for adding conflict avoider in there. All of what you have seen, I have seen. I still wonder how people view my father and sisters as the "victims'. But it is because they play that part well. Part of being a cheater is being a great manipulator. When your audience OM/OW is hearing a one sided view, they tend to believe all cheater says. Which gives them a great forum. To this day I still have to call my "Normal" sister and verify I am not going crazy when my father or sisters recount their relationship history and take no blame for anything. Often times denying with a straight face an event happened even if others were there. My sisters will swear they never cheated in any relationship when they talk to people. Ironic since one had affair partners baby and tried to pass it off. But people who so not know her history see a sweet nurse . My other sister called me when she started dating her 5th husband and said "he is a great guy, he hates cheaters". I then asked her if he knew she was a cheater and she replied "I have never cheated on anyone". I really think since many want to beleive what they say, they become really good at telling "their version" of the truth. Meanwhile my mother is looked upon as the crazy one,since my father lies so well. I see it so clearly. with the people I know personally and also with actors and politicians. You can see the ones with the issues are usually the cheaters. But it seems society will still turn a blind eye on that and still blame BS which I can see is crazy making. This is why I identify with BS. I and my sane sister do not speak with my father. Even after years of childhood abuse,we would still speak with him. But due to his lies(sometimes about his own children) I have realized how toxic it is to even have him in my life. People view my sister and I as "bad daughters". My sister has asked them countless times where they were when we were being abused physically by a man who prided himself in building muscle and obtaining strength". they swear they did not know and he denies it(only spanked us as good parents do to naughty kids), but they knew. They just chose to "ignore " it because he puts his mask on in front of them and if he is nice to them, who cares how he treats his kids or if he lies about them? I feel my own sense of betrayal from my family and even society. We would often talk amongs ourselves and say perhaps we should go to authorities and tell. It was bad at home. To the point we were afraid of being killed in the hands of our own father. But we were more afraid he would tell the authorities we were liars. It is a shame that even as children we knew we as victims would be blamed. "Well,what did you do to make him so angry he had to beat you?" or worse yet "you are a liar and a trouble maker, parents would not treat their children this way,you are making it up" and hand us right back. Yes whether it is an abusive husband,abusive father or a cheater. the victim is blamed. "YOU did something to make him behave this way, because normal people would not do this". Well, as I pointed out ,these folks are not "normal" people. But they somehow convince everyone they are and point finger at their victims. I think even if I tried to warn my father OW or OM or sister's next OM or potential new husband, they would view me as the trouble maker and would still believe the cheater. They shoot the messenger and ignore the message. Edited August 1, 2013 by jlola 1
ladydesigner Posted August 1, 2013 Posted August 1, 2013 LD, I know exactly what you mean. My father is a malignant narcissist.Probably the worst kind because he was also sadistic. lack of empathy is big. But they sure can fake it in front of the right people. It really boggles my mind how so many just want to simplify the cheating as the fault of BS. Thank you for adding conflict avoider in there. All of what you have seen, I have seen. I still wonder how people view my father and sisters as the "victims'. But it is because they play that part well. Part of being a cheater is being a great manipulator. When your audience OM/OW is hearing a one sided view, they tend to believe all cheater says. Which gives them a great forum. To this day I still have to call my "Normal" sister and verify I am not going crazy when my father or sisters recount their relationship history and take no blame for anything. Often times denying with a straight face an event happened even if others were there. My sisters will swear they never cheated in any relationship when they talk to people. Ironic since one had affair partners baby and tried to pass it off. But people who so not know her history see a sweet nurse . My other sister called me when she started dating her 5th husband and said "he is a great guy, he hates cheaters". I then asked her if he knew she was a cheater and she replied "I have never cheated on anyone". I really think since many want to beleive what they say, they become really good at telling "their version" of the truth. Meanwhile my mother is looked upon as the crazy one,since my father lies so well. I see it so clearly. with the people I know personally and also with actors and politicians. You can see the ones with the issues are usually the cheaters. But it seems society will still turn a blind eye on that and still blame BS which I can see is crazy making. This is why I identify with BS. I and my sane sister do not speak with my father. Even after years of childhood abuse,we would still speak with him. But due to his lies(sometimes about his own children) I have realized how toxic it is to even have him in my life. People view my sister and I as "bad daughters". My sister has asked them countless times where they were when we were being abused physically by a man who prided himself in building muscle and obtaining strength". they swear they did not know and he denies it(only spanked us as good parents do to naughty kids), but they knew. They just chose to "ignore " it because he puts his mask on in front of them and if he is nice to them, who cares how he treats his kids or if he lies about them? I feel my own sense of betrayal from my family and even society. We would often talk amongs ourselves and say perhaps we should go to authorities and tell. It was bad at home. To the point we were afraid of being killed in the hands of our own father. But we were more afraid he would tell the authorities we were liars. It is a shame that even as children we knew we as victims would be blamed. "Well,what did you do to make him so angry he had to beat you?" or worse yet "you are a liar and a trouble maker, parents would not treat their children this way,you are making it up" and hand us right back. Yes whether it is an abusive husband,abusive father or a cheater. the victim is blamed. "YOU did something to make him behave this way, because normal people would not do this". Well, as I pointed out ,these folks are not "normal" people. But they somehow convince everyone they are and point finger at their victims. I think even if I tried to warn my father OW or OM or sister's next OM or potential new husband, they would view me as the trouble maker and would still believe the cheater. They shoot the messenger and ignore the message. Wow I just wow jlola you are a wise woman and your family dynamic *yikes* I too have a history of abuse, I believe it is why I have chosen the men that I have. In every situation that I have been victimized (ie molested by my brother, gang raped by high school friends, beat and left for dead by my ex boyfriend, and now a serial cheating, lying wh), I have either been blamed or not believed. My WH can play the martyr roll to a "T". He is the master at whoa is me. MOW fell for it hook line and sinker. I don't really blame her too much my WH is a REALLY good manipulator.
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