Jack_Seven Posted July 31, 2013 Posted July 31, 2013 (edited) sorry.. too risky Edited July 31, 2013 by Jack_Seven risky
road Posted July 31, 2013 Posted July 31, 2013 Some people do HB after dday. Some do not Usually HB lasts six months. Few say it never ended. There is no correct response for HB. Based on the individuals needs/wants.
BetrayedH Posted July 31, 2013 Posted July 31, 2013 Having read your other thread, I'm going to assume that you're continuing your affair and experiencing HB with your long-term GF. You definitely seem to lack the courage to end the affair since you hardly have the courage to discuss it with anonymous internet posters. You're stealing precious years from your GF that she will never get back. End the relationship with your AP or your GF. Not doing so is what's really a time bomb. You're lucky it hasn't gone off yet. 5
road Posted August 1, 2013 Posted August 1, 2013 Having read your other thread, I'm going to assume that you're continuing your affair and experiencing HB with your long-term GF. You definitely seem to lack the courage to end the affair since you hardly have the courage to discuss it with anonymous internet posters. You're stealing precious years from your GF that she will never get back. End the relationship with your AP or your GF. Not doing so is what's really a time bomb. You're lucky it hasn't gone off yet. Forcing your GF to live a life based on lies. Is that the way your parents taught you to treat people? Or it is they taught you to live this way by their actions?
Author Jack_Seven Posted August 1, 2013 Author Posted August 1, 2013 Well since you took the time to read it, I can update it in a way that I guess you could call "perfect karma". I really wanted the A to stop, and knowing that I lacked the willpower to go NC (and neither did AP, based on her calling me crying after my first attempt to end it with an email) ... I called AP's husband. Told him everything. He was shattered. AP was very angry with me... He called my GF, they both cried consoling each other... But it did end it, well its only been 2 weeks since that DDay but NC stands. Not a word. How about this for karma... Since all this came about, my GF has been just amazing... she said that she would be there for me, regardless of my 'decision'. I quickly realized just how much I love my GF and came back to her with all the promises of marriage and finally forming that strong bond that would remove the fears we have for losing each other. I am completely over the A, don't even think of AP at all. Then it happened... GF went out on one of those 4-hour cruises for a friends daughters birthday. The captain invited her to the bridge, where they spent the whole time talking... and no doubt connecting... GF, being the honest person she is, told me that - she was attracted to him - he kissed her (a peck) on departure - gave her his card GF discussed this with me and gave me his card to destroy, which I did. However, one of the girls on the cruise gave him her phone number. He rang her, and invited her to go with him on a cruise on his yacht to the carribean!!! (yes hes rich) She says she wont go (very sudden, hardly knows the guy), but does want to keep contact with him... Now it seems the ball is in GF's court. She says she loves me very much, and has been 'waiting for me' all these years, and here I am wanting to totally devote myself to her (and I mean that - there is no way I would ever go through this A thing again - sheer hell for all concerned...) ... yet I may have blown it. Please believe me, I am totally sincere in saying these things to her and totally head over heels in love with her. Will she choose me or 'explore' this new possibility... stay tuned... should know more soon. Karma, huh?
Author Jack_Seven Posted August 1, 2013 Author Posted August 1, 2013 This was the original opening post which I deleted... best to read this before the previous reply I just posted to make sense... sorry... Too good to be true? or Hysterical Bonding timebomb? Can it be this easy? I've read many threads that mention the long period of time it takes for reconciliation to be complete and everything 'back to normal', with no thoughts or spoken words about A. What I don't get is how it has (seemingly) worked out for me. I have a GF for past 27 yrs - we have 2 adult children (out of home), I had never cheated on her nor her me. Short summary - relationship was virtually dead, no communication, spoke to each other derogatively most of the time, no passion, very rare sex, she has depression, sleeps a lot. Anyway, I decided to seek out a partner for sex. Plain and simple. But I did not want a single lady, rather a married one so that we were both on a "level playing field" with much to lose and no intention of hooking up together permanently, Enter AshleyMadison.com. I posted a profile, but did not proactively contact anyone. I guess my profile hit the mark and I was flooded with messages from married women! One married woman in particular started emailing me, then chat, then she suggested we meet... We did, had sex after our 2nd meeting... became an intense emotional and physical affair... lasting 2 months. DDay 1 GF caught me chatting with AP. I confessed (partly) that we were chatting but nothing more... We were so 'apart' at the time my GF said it was OK, that I should explore and 'find myself'. AP and I had not had actual intercouse at that point (everything else but)...and GF insisted that I should have sex with her to 'know what I want'. So I did. About 10 times. GF apologized to me profusely and emotionally, saying how she had pushed me to this extent, and that she deeply regretted her bahaviour towards me... We both cried a lot in each others arms. GF said she loved me unconditionally and that I should spend some time away from her to 'find myself'. and that she would always be there for me... A few days later I came back to GF and said that I want her and want to put this A behind us. She said OK, but I would have to have NC with AP from there on (fair enough). I agreed. GF admited she contacted an investigation company and had all AP's details (address, home phone, car rego, etc.. and copies of recent chats and emails)... and did threaten to contact AP's husband... GF said its her or its over... So I sent email to AP detailing that 'it' was over, and that any further continuation of A would result in GF visiting AP's husband in person... AP replied agreeing it was over... AP then rings me up, crying and asking if we can still stay in secret contact, no meeting up just emails... I, foolishly, agreed... DDay #2 AP organizes night in city with fake friend, to meet me and spend night in a hotel (GF was going up coast for overnight party, and did not insist that I come...) But I agreed to go with GF instead... so we are sitting around at party talking, when I pass a funny pic on my phone around.. GF has a look, does something on my phone and brings up a recent email from AP discussing the planned rensezvous... My heart sinks... (oh, the consequences...) I walk outside and stay in car for next 6 hours... GF breaks down crying... I dread the car trip home with her to follow....(2 hours) By this point GF was receiving an SMS from investigators whenever I sent an email to AP via any gmail account... She gives me the ultimatum... her or AP. I choose her (of course)... and insist that I end it by calling AP's husband personally... Wow...imagine calling the husband of the married woman you are screwing spilling your guts... 25 minutes of details...he remains ok for about 15 minutes then starts crying... I feel so bad... I tell him I am not chasing his wife.... he calls my GF, they console each other... Since then , no contact at all between me and AP. Not a peep. (3 weeks ago) Last 2 weeks have been fantastic. I pledge my undying love for my GF (which is absolutely true, its like we have fallen in love with each other all over again), have sex 3 times a day (usually), I promise to marry her by the end of the year ( and I mean it) - she is so awesome! Its like we have both changed from dead, unemotional existences into a new life - full of excitement and passion for each other, we text each other daily, planning each nights escapades... We daily tell each other that we love each other like never before, kiss for hours, dance together and make love very often... (BTW although I dont really need it, viagra rocks! from 20 mins sex to 3-4 hours with ease)) I would never, ever cheat on her again. I love her more than life itself. Oh, and last I heard was that AP and husband were reconciling, and had marriage councelling scheduled.. They have two young children. So is this just HB in action, and do you think this will come crashing down in time? Or will a wedding and the bond associated wipe out the memories? GF has not mentioned A at all since then. Comments?
BetrayedH Posted August 1, 2013 Posted August 1, 2013 I see your GF having her own affair with this captain if you don't both get into some counseling. While she may be doing the HB thing with you, she's going to feel fully justified in having her own fling. She is obviously desperate for validation right now. As wrong as it may feel, you need to get her to agree to having no "friends" that are a threat to the relationship or admit that she plans on having an affair. 1
Author Jack_Seven Posted August 2, 2013 Author Posted August 2, 2013 So we had a long talk and both agreed that what we need is to remove all the outside influences, and after 27 years we are going to get married. I proposed, she said yes. We have both agreed to put all this crap behind us and use this as the solid bond to alleviate all fears and insecurities which have plagued our relationship. A 'fresh start' with the commitment of marriage vows and no fears of mistrust, a clean slate. Both so happy we cried. 3
BetrayedH Posted August 2, 2013 Posted August 2, 2013 Seems like a unique and happy ending. Honestly, I wish you both the best. Bear in mind though that you probably still have an emotional roller coaster ahead of you. It's not uncommon for hysterical bonding to take place but I'd be amazed if she skips all of the other stages of grief. I recommend you read the thread pinned at the top of this forum, Things That Every Wayward Needs to Know. Also, get the book, How to Help My Spouse Heal from My Affair, by Linda McDonald. Another good book is, Not Just Friends, by Shirley Glass. I suspect that you're going to have to follow some of the traditional recovery methods regardless of your fiance's early forgiveness. Anger usually sets in later. Good luck. 2
worldgonewrong Posted August 2, 2013 Posted August 2, 2013 Meanwhile the wreckage that was wrought on the AP and her poor husband are swiftly cast aside. I feel bad for them - or rather, her husband specifically.
waterwoman Posted August 2, 2013 Posted August 2, 2013 Hi, glad you are feeling better and that you are your gf are making progress. BUT.... please be aware that there will come a point when she starts to think hard about what you did and be very very angry and hurt. I suffer from depression - H pulled away from me before the A started and I thought it was because I wasn't good company. But it turns out to be because he was lavishing all his attention on her (and her problems). Meanwhile I was at my lowest ever and contemplating suicide. I recovered slowly and painfully and then 6 m later dday!!! We went through a honeymoon phase for a few months after dday - hey. we're still together, AP is gone, ooh look at the rainbow! hello flowers, hello trees, tra la la!!! Then I started to really think. About what the affair actually involved. And I got angry. How the eff could he do that to me when I needed him more than I ever had!!!! Living with a depressive is sh*t but beleive me BEING a depressive is a million times worse. The rollercoaster started moving. Just be aware you are in for one hell of a ride. Are you prepared to hang on for dear life? Because you will need to. Good luck x
BetrayedH Posted August 2, 2013 Posted August 2, 2013 Meanwhile the wreckage that was wrought on the AP and her poor husband are swiftly cast aside. I feel bad for them - or rather, her husband specifically. You're right, of course. I would imagine that finding out that your W was on Ashley Madison must be overwhelming.
2sunny Posted August 2, 2013 Posted August 2, 2013 It doesn't seem you have dealt with/worked through what caused you to look for other women behind her back. Why not? You owe her that now - before you get married. 1
Betterthanthis13 Posted August 2, 2013 Posted August 2, 2013 I could be way off here, but I don't think your gf ever really had any interest in pursuing a relationship with the boat captain. I think she loves you, and her telling you about the interaction on the boat, giving you the business card, and following up by letting you know about his further pursuit was her way of showing you BY EXAMPLE, "This is the way to behave when one is tempted by an outsider, even when one is unhappy in a relationship." As in, "Look, men are interested on me too. I have chosen you. This is how I would like you to handle the situation next time you are faced with a similar situation, if in fact, you have chosen me" 1
BetrayedH Posted August 2, 2013 Posted August 2, 2013 I could be way off here, but I don't think your gf ever really had any interest in pursuing a relationship with the boat captain. I think she loves you, and her telling you about the interaction on the boat, giving you the business card, and following up by letting you know about his further pursuit was her way of showing you BY EXAMPLE, "This is the way to behave when one is tempted by an outsider, even when one is unhappy in a relationship." As in, "Look, men are interested on me too. I have chosen you. This is how I would like you to handle the situation next time you are faced with a similar situation, if in fact, you have chosen me" I would tend to agree, except that she still wanted to be "friends" with the captain. At minimum, that's poor boundaries since he'd invited her to take a Caribbean cruise - not exactly well-intentioned or a friend of their relationship. But your version reminds me of an old poster from here, Furious. She told a great story about after her H's affair. She dressed up to the nines one night (black dress, stiletto heels), went to a bar (with her husband crapping his pants at home), came home with three phone numbers, and flushed them down the toilet in front of her H. She showed him how easily she could have gotten some external validation but kept her integrity. 1
Betterthanthis13 Posted August 2, 2013 Posted August 2, 2013 I would tend to agree, except that she still wanted to be "friends" with the captain. At minimum, that's poor boundaries since he'd invited her to take a Caribbean cruise - not exactly well-intentioned or a friend of their relationship. But your version reminds me of an old poster from here, Furious. She told a great story about after her H's affair. She dressed up to the nines one night (black dress, stiletto heels), went to a bar (with her husband crapping his pants at home), came home with three phone numbers, and flushed them down the toilet in front of her H. She showed him how easily she could have gotten some external validation but kept her integrity. Ha, that's a good story. I missed the staying friends with the Captain part. I thought of this angle because I did similar things after fake Dday #1, before I broke up with him. In my head back then I naively believed him when he said he had made a huge mistake. So I "showed him" what people are supposed to do. It wasn't just that, it was also vindictive and jealousy provoking, so it was a multi-purpose bad idea on my part. 1
BetrayedH Posted August 2, 2013 Posted August 2, 2013 ...I did similar things after fake Dday #1, before I broke up with him. In my head back then I naively believed him when he said he had made a huge mistake. So I "showed him" what people are supposed to do. It wasn't just that, it was also vindictive and jealousy provoking, so it was a multi-purpose bad idea on my part. I think we can cut you some slack on that one. 1
Author Jack_Seven Posted August 5, 2013 Author Posted August 5, 2013 hi, thanks for your replies... worldgonewrong Meanwhile the wreckage that was wrought on the AP and her poor husband are swiftly cast aside. I feel bad for them - or rather, her husband specifically. Swifty cast aside? How? I feel terrible for him (not AP) too. AP chased me... AP even got very angry at me demanding that I "be a man and explain myself" to her after I made the call to her hubby. She had no remorse at that time for her betrayal of her H. I see your GF having her own affair with this captain if you don't both get into some counseling. While she may be doing the HB thing with you, she's going to feel fully justified in having her own fling. She is obviously desperate for validation right now. As wrong as it may feel, you need to get her to agree to having no "friends" that are a threat to the relationship or admit that she plans on having an affair. Agree. After explaining rules of NC from what I have learned from this forum (thanks) she agreed completely, GF and I responded to his (captain's) text demanding no further contact. He complied. She understands that he is a threat to our relationship and had to be discarded. As for the future emotional rollercoaster mentioned by waterwoman and BetrayedH, I really don't think so. Two reasons. One, when GF found out about A, whilst very upset she apologized profusely to me for driving me to this extreme, as she acknowledged her own behavior was terrible in terms of how she had been treating me for so long... and two, we are not married and my proposal of marriage to her (which she accepted and is extremely excited and happy about) and backing it up by visiting a jewelers on the weekend and paying a sizable deposit on a very nice diamond ring for her has blown her away... I think that since married people who have A's obviously don't have this option available are in a different position altogether - trying to repair a broken marriage rather than having this chance for marriage to act as a fresh start. BTW I will NEVER violate a marriage vow having seen first hand the turmoil that ensues - its certainly not worth it. GF did explain that her self-esteem has taken a severe blow, and since that time I have taken her out to nightclubs every weekend since, her dressing all sexy and has been receiving a lot of looks and attempted hit-ons (when I was at the bar) ... yeah the captain thing went further than I would have liked and quite frankly scared the **** out of me (but I was glad in one way, it did boost her self esteem) ... but nothing physical eventuated (she is extremely honest and has told me that she would definitely tell me if she desired to see someone else) ... so basically all good.
BetrayedH Posted August 5, 2013 Posted August 5, 2013 I will still be surprised if she doesn't experience the same stages of grief: denial, anger, bargaining, depression, acceptance. It's common for the anger stage to be delayed because of shock. As a betrayed person, you don't immediately fall out of love with your signficant other and you fear the loss of your life as you know it. Instead of being angry, we focus on trying to do damage control. We try to figure out WTF happened and how to prevent a complete disaster. It's very likely that she won't truly experience anger until after the dust has settled and she starts to feel safe. Once she realizes that ok, he's not leaving me and things are getting back to normal - that's when suddenly she'll say to herself, you know, I don't much appreciate this. She will start to process that regardless of how 'bad' she might have treated you, you still had an obligation to either fix the relationship or leave it. She will realize that you are shifting the blame for your piss-poor decision onto her (or onto your other woman that "pursued you"). She's going to realize that instead of being the one person that had her back, you were the one person inserting a knife into it. You may have significantly disrupted her grief by presenting her with a ring (boy, they love those things, don't they?) but I would bet it was more delay than anything. One thing I know for sure, if you think it's going to be all good from here, you're making a poor assumption and taking yet another risk with this relationship when you should be further safeguarding it by reading books, and going to counseling to figure out why YOU decided to go onto Ashley Madison instead of addressing and fixing your problems. 2
waterwoman Posted August 5, 2013 Posted August 5, 2013 Agree with BH. You betrayed her. That is a fact. There is no justification. I would be very surprised if the reality of it never hits her. I tried to take blame on and after dday - it feels safer to think it was my fault because then I could stop it happening again - but truth is I did NOTHING to justify his cheating. H has always told me that. The anger came later.
Betterthanthis13 Posted August 5, 2013 Posted August 5, 2013 Hey Jack, I also encourage you to dig a little deeper into the reasons behind why you chose to stray as BetrayedH stated above, even though things appear to be going very well right now. I understand you have resolved in your mind never to do it again, and have made the commitment to marry (congrats btw ) Everyone's situation is different in some ways and yours does differ from a lot on here because you were not married, and can now get married. I can relate to that because my situation is similar in the respect that my boyfriend (ex, live in, cheater, whatever he is) has proposed marriage a few times over the last year and is still convinced that marrying me is a good idea. Our situation is different because I have declined his proposal. What I worry about for you and your fiancé is that you are applying a surface level solution to a deeper problem- there is nothing wrong with that as a good start, as long as both of you recognize that you are signing up for some hard work- a sparkly ring, and some promises don't fix what's broken underneath. All I am saying is start thinking long term. Things are good between you now, and that is fantastic. Now is the perfect time to investigate and analyze yourself on a deeper level, and get to the root of why the cheating happened in the first place, without assigning blame to the relationship conditions. Marriages have their ups and downs, and it's inevitable that at some point you will be unhappy and dissatisfied again- it would be awesome if you had the self knowledge and tools to deal with that situation before the time comes, instead of relying on the assumption that the commitment of marriage is enough to prevent future indiscretions. Either way, it can't hurt to listen to BetrayedH's advice- if he is wrong, so what? It's like buying insurance. You dont think your house will ever burn down, but you buy the insurance just in case anyway. Something to think about. 1
BetrayedH Posted August 5, 2013 Posted August 5, 2013 She said it much nicer (and perhaps, better) than I did.
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