This is why I will never understand the female gender.. :-\

[Simon Phoenix]

Yup because doing it the "right" way by your standards is a 180 degree opposite of my standards.

 

I dont have to lie, rely on tricks or be something Im not or to be successful in dating. I understand how the "GAME" (interaction between 2 people) is played and I play it. I dont create my own rules of what I think is right (morally). The funny thing is, women LOVE IT! They eat it up... why do you think pickup artists are so successful and you are here posting on an internet forum?

 

You learn the rules to the game, your practice and you become successful. Or you don't you post here for the next 20 years of your life whining and bitching how *******s bang all the women and you want a relationship and cant even find a 300 pound woman thats used up by 200+ men to settle down with you

 

You realize you have more posts than the person you were quoting, don't you?

[dasein]

"Be yourself", does not mean "don't strive for improvement."

 

It's a silly, overused cliche' which also happens to be a semantic nullity. It is impossible to be other than oneself.

 

Be yourself means don't pretend to be something you are not, don't rely on tricks, lies or lines to get what you want.

 

No, we have simple maxims for that which are fine. "Don't lie to or deceive others to get what you want." No need for any repetitive overlay of "be yourself" over that simple maxim.

 

In terms of relationships, it means letting the other person get to know the person you really are, and not some sort of facade put up to impress.

 

I see, so women shouldn't wear makeup? Seduction skills are not one iota different than makeup, and don't imply dishonesty, insincerity, selling out, or being something other than oneself.

[jma500]

It's a silly, overused cliche' which also happens to be a semantic nullity. It is impossible to be other than oneself.

 

 

 

No, we have simple maxims for that which are fine. "Don't lie to or deceive others to get what you want." No need for any repetitive overlay of "be yourself" over that simple maxim.

 

 

 

I see, so women shouldn't wear makeup? Seduction skills are not one iota different than makeup, and don't imply dishonesty, insincerity, selling out, or being something other than oneself.

 

You are just being argumentative. Further your last statement is completely nonsensical.

[dasein]

You are just being argumentative. Further your last statement is completely nonsensical.

 

As part of a long career in negotiations, have learned to recognize the above as two kinds of response from people who have been completely and irredeemably refuted. Better luck next discussion.

[jma500]

As part of a long career in negotiations, have learned to recognize the above as two kinds of response from people who have been completely and irredeemably refuted. Better luck next discussion.

 

Arrogant much? If you truly had such experience you would have learned long ago how to create a coherent sentence.

[dasein]

Arrogant much? If you truly had such experience you would have learned long ago how to create a coherent sentence.

 

Then they start up with the ad hominem attacks so fundamental to the playbook of the well and truly beaten, followed by further incorrect assessments anyone reading the thread can see. Haven't seen that kind of thing on LS a thousand times.

[letsbeotherpeople]

I see, so women shouldn't wear makeup? Seduction skills are not one iota different than makeup, and don't imply dishonesty, insincerity, selling out, or being something other than oneself.

 

You understand the difference between enhancement and facade, I trust?

If so, you would need to ask the above question.

 

And when you have websites, discussions, methodologies, advice on tactics, techniques and approaches on how to pick up women, that's as far from being yourself as its possible to get, especially if you think relationships with women and the act of seduction is a game to be won or lost.

[dasein]

You understand the difference between enhancement and facade, I trust?

If so, you would need to ask the above question.

 

Tomayto tomahto. But OK, so guys take note, socks in the underwear, elevator shoes, hairpieces OK. Telling a woman something that -enhances- any preexisting disposition to find you attractive? Verboten as false. Make sense to you?

 

And when you have websites, discussions, methodologies, advice on tactics, techniques and approaches on how to pick up women, that's as far from being yourself as its possible to get, especially if you think relationships with women and the act of seduction is a game to be won or lost.

 

Makeup-Forum .com

 

Basenotes Forums

 

As far as the "game" of dating goes, guys, if she says "yes," you've won. If she says "no," you've lost, regardless of whether the goal is a date, sex, GF, LTR or marriage. So when playing this game, doesn't it make sense to learn the various skills involved instead of expecting that everyone comes out of the womb with their dating and sexual awareness fully intact? Thank goodness the author of the Kama Sutra didn't subscribe to the "be yourself" mantra or the book would be a single diagram of a guy "spanking the shiva."

 

And to be clear, I like makeup and the reaction it gets, lots of people do; I like seduction and the reaction it gets as well, lots of people do.

[Pompeii]

What you call the pussification of men is what the rest of the world call men treating women like a fellow human being and not treating them like a bit of meat you can stick your dick into and order around. And if you're judging the full spectrum of female tastes and desires using this board as a reference, you're missing out on about 99% of the female population of the world. Sure some might like it a bit rough, quite a few in fact, but every single one of them wants to be respected first and foremost. Checking out your posting history tells me that you've not quite worked out that part yet. I'm sure once maturity kicks in that little fact will stick.

 

Oh, and just so you know, in British vocabulary the term Skid Mark refers to the brown stain found on underwear when one has neglected to wipe their arse properly.

 

Seems your choice of username was rather apt.

 

Men in general are becoming less masculine than previous generations. If you don't see that then I don't know what to tell you.

[USMCHokie]

Haven't gone through the thread, but this reminds me of the HIMYM episode regarding being "on the hook." You were on this girl's hook since the beginning and never had a chance.

[letsbeotherpeople]

When we say "game" we are not even THINKING, SAYING or IMPLYING... That a man EVER... LIE, TRICK, PRETEND and put up a FAKE FACADE. That is you PROJECTING that onto us because in your world... It's always EXTREMES.

 

 

 

Let me TRANSLATE what you really mean and what "BEING YOURSELF" is for 95% of the men here...

 

The "Being Yourself" "Game" = THROWING UP your PROFILE / RESUME / STATS to a woman, crossing your fingers, while looking down at your shoes and HOPING she might be interested.

 

That "game" / approach / "Being Yourself" is UNATTRACTIVE, UNINTERESTING, LAME, NOT THE LEAST BIT ROMANTIC and it's a MAJOR TURNOFF!

 

Do you think the "Being Yourself" "Game" creates an environment where a woman is THINKING / FEELING any of the following about YOU: MYSTERIOUS, INTRIGUE, DESIRE, INTIMACY, CURIOSITY, EXCITEMENT, SPARKS, ATTRACTION, LUST, CHEMISTRY, LONGING, INFATUATION, SEXUAL, etc?

 

HELL NO!

 

How many of you guys who are "Being Yourself" actually have the "stones" to walk up to a woman you do not know and weren't "pen pals" on some lame online dating site for the last 6 months, look her in the eyes and introduce yourself and have an engaging conversation / dialog with her?

 

I'm willing to bet it's the same 95% of you "Being Yourself" guys who couldn't even make eye contact with the girls who were staring at you from across the dance floor waiting to be asked to dance at your 8th grade dance.

 

Did any of you dorks walk over and ask the girls to dance? No! Here we are 5, 10, 15, 20+ years later and you are still doing the same thing you did all the way back then.

 

If you can't look a woman in the eye or walk up to one you do not / hardly know without crapping in your pants... Am I honestly suppose to believe that you are some engaging, funny and charming conservationists that puts James Bond to shame? Yeah... RIGHT!

 

The reason most of you pansies O.L.D. is because it's the only prayer / "game" that you have. "Being yourself" (your "game") is THROWING UP your PROFILE / RESUME / STATS on a girl and hope like hell THAT and a couple of PICS interests her. It's Chicken S.hit, it's not romantic, it's not natural and forced. It's why 90% of the threads / posts on here by guys are them bitching and complaining about the other sissies on their dating site who have better PROFILES / RESUMES / STATS / pics than them and then ATTACK / BLAME women for being SHALLOW. It's simply... pathetic.

 

Either "Be Yourself" / Improve upon your PROFILE / RESUME / STATS and quit all your bitching and moaning about the other idiots online who have "better" PROFILES / RESUMES / STATS than you...

 

Or

 

Learn how to be a Man / Have the "stones" to introduce yourself to women you do not / hardly know, look women in the eyes, stop THROWING UP your PROFILE / RESUME / STATS and learn how to actually have a DIALOG / BANTER with a woman that includes / touches on / brings out those FEELINGS / EMOTIONS I mention earlier.

 

I'm always myself.

I don't play any games, because I don't treat meeting people as a game that one wins or loses.

I met my wife by going up to a girl in a bar and talking to her.

Most of my female friends have come from the same situation, because when I went to speak to them I wanted to get to know them first, not get a shag.

 

So if I'm generalising, then you are just as guilty of the same crime.

[letsbeotherpeople]

Am I honestly suppose to believe that you are some engaging, funny and charming conservationists that puts James Bond to shame? Yeah... RIGHT!

You've mentioned Bond before, as a role model that Men™ should look up to.

 

Anyone with even a passing understanding of the Bond books and films will know that one of the major elements in Bond's overriding psychological makeup is his utter hatred and contempt of women.

 

As a role model, I think we can do better than that, don't you?

[letsbeotherpeople]

Men in general are becoming less masculine than previous generations. If you don't see that then I don't know what to tell you.

 

Nope, I don't. Because its not true.

 

Please enlighten me as to what your definition of masculine entails and how it is degrading, o master.

[letsbeotherpeople]

As far as the "game" of dating goes, guys, if she says "yes," you've won. If she says "no," you've lost, regardless of whether the goal is a date, sex, GF, LTR or marriage. So when playing this game, doesn't it make sense to learn the various skills involved instead of expecting that everyone comes out of the womb with their dating and sexual awareness fully intact? Thank goodness the author of the Kama Sutra didn't subscribe to the "be yourself" mantra or the book would be a single diagram of a guy "spanking the shiva."

 

And therein lies the difference.

 

I don't treat it as a game. It's not about winning or losing. If I speak to a women and she's not interested, what have I lost? Nothing.

 

Relationships (with a small 'r', I'm talking about any interaction with people, from the merest conversation to a lifelong marriage) is not about winning or losing. It's about making a connection, even if that connection doesn't continue beyond the first moment.

 

You treat it like a game, and someone, somewhere will play you. If you can deal with that, good on you, but I prefer my connections to be a little more honest and not quite as superficial. In over 40 years, I've found I've made more lasting friendships as a result.

[Pompeii]

Nope, I don't. Because its not true.

 

Please enlighten me as to what your definition of masculine entails and how it is degrading, o master.

 

In previous years, masculine outlets involved a great deal of physical activity/exertion, leadership, and risk-taking. In my dad's generation, if two boys had a dispute with each other, they'd take it outside. Now, that is discouraged. In my dad's generation, a lot of men weren't afraid of taking some kind of leadership role. In my dad's generation, a lot of men were not afraid to communicate sexual interest. Masculinity has pretty much been demonized and said to be evil. Many men now a days are averse to physical activity, enjoy gossip, are risk-averse, and are wary of leadership. Add to the fact that stuff such as PUA and all other things exist because men don't know how to effectively court women. Even in the ancient times, learning the art of seduction was included in a boy's education. Now, we'd be lucky if grown men even know how to talk to a girl without becoming a nervous wreck.

 

Being "masculine" now a days centers around video games, veg-outs on the couch eating pizza, and "bro culture". There are few "real" outlets for positive masculinity left in the modern world.

 

When we have guys look up to Jersey Shore guidos and Justin Bieber, there's a problem. Add to the fact that the amount of estrogen in our water supply has been rising for quite some time and all sorts of xenoestrogens are present in a lot of things we use, it puts a downward pressure on testosterone. Why do you think that women say "there's no real men anymore"? A lot of men are effectively geldings.

[letsbeotherpeople]

In previous years, masculine outlets involved a great deal of physical activity/exertion, leadership, and risk-taking. In my dad's generation, if two boys had a dispute with each other, they'd take it outside. Now, that is discouraged. In my dad's generation, a lot of men weren't afraid of taking some kind of leadership role. In my dad's generation, a lot of men were not afraid to communicate sexual interest. Masculinity has pretty much been demonized and said to be evil. Many men now a days are averse to physical activity, enjoy gossip, are risk-averse, and are wary of leadership. Add to the fact that stuff such as PUA and all other things exist because men don't know how to effectively court women. Even in the ancient times, learning the art of seduction was included in a boy's education. Now, we'd be lucky if grown men even know how to talk to a girl without becoming a nervous wreck.

 

Being "masculine" now a days centers around video games, veg-outs on the couch eating pizza, and "bro culture". There are few "real" outlets for positive masculinity left in the modern world.

 

When we have guys look up to Jersey Shore guidos and Justin Bieber, there's a problem. Add to the fact that the amount of estrogen in our water supply has been rising for quite some time and all sorts of xenoestrogens are present in a lot of things we use, it puts a downward pressure on testosterone. Why do you think that women say "there's no real men anymore"? A lot of men are effectively geldings.

 

Well I'd suggest them, and you, remove your head from your backsides and look around you.

 

Men don't fight anymore, because we live in a civilised society, and it is never civilised to resolve conflicts with violence.

If men don't know how to talk to women, its because the are so focused on the end goal (getting their dicks wet) that they forget to see the woman in front of them as a person and not a prize.

It's the same sort of thinking that buys into this 20% bullcrap myth. It's an excuse for social inadequacies brought about by unrealistic expectations of what speaking to the opposite sex entails and can result in.

And if you're blaming estrogen in the water supply, then you probably need to wear a tin foil hat to go along with the chip on your shoulder.

[Pompeii]

Well I'd suggest them, and you, remove your head from your backsides and look around you.

 

Men don't fight anymore, because we live in a civilised society, and it is never civilised to resolve conflicts with violence.

If men don't know how to talk to women, its because the are so focused on the end goal (getting their dicks wet) that they forget to see the woman in front of them as a person and not a prize.

It's the same sort of thinking that buys into this 20% bullcrap myth. It's an excuse for social inadequacies brought about by unrealistic expectations of what speaking to the opposite sex entails and can result in.

And if you're blaming estrogen in the water supply, then you probably need to wear a tin foil hat to go along with the chip on your shoulder.

 

I'm not even going to address any of this except the 20% "myth" and estrogen in drinking water is quite real.

 

Sorry you're too much of a pussy to enjoy any type of physical activity and have to counter it with we live in a "civilized society".

[USMCHokie]

Well I'd suggest them, and you, remove your head from your backsides and look around you.

 

Men don't fight anymore, because we live in a civilised society, and it is never civilised to resolve conflicts with violence.

If men don't know how to talk to women, its because the are so focused on the end goal (getting their dicks wet) that they forget to see the woman in front of them as a person and not a prize.

It's the same sort of thinking that buys into this 20% bullcrap myth. It's an excuse for social inadequacies brought about by unrealistic expectations of what speaking to the opposite sex entails and can result in.

And if you're blaming estrogen in the water supply, then you probably need to wear a tin foil hat to go along with the chip on your shoulder.

 

I would agree with "The Master" in that feminism has pervaded our school systems and effeminated a new generation of men into a culture of unequal protection.

[letsbeotherpeople]

I'm not even going to address any of this except the 20% "myth" and estrogen in drinking water is quite real.

The 20% is a myth created by people to blame away their social inadequacies on something they have no control over to make themselves feel better.

 

I'm not debating whether there is estrogen in drinking water or not. I'm saying it cannot be proved that this has had any detrimental effect on masculinity.

 

Sorry you're too much of a pussy to enjoy any type of physical activity and have to counter it with we live in a "civilized society".

If you think not engaging in violent activity to resolve my issues is somehow me being a pussy, I think this speaks volumes as to why you've always had an issue with women and why they won't give you the time of day.

[letsbeotherpeople]

I would agree with "The Master" in that feminism has pervaded our school systems and effeminated a new generation of men into a culture of unequal protection.

 

If you're saying there needs to be more male teachers in the school system to provide positive role models for children, especially at primary school age, I happen to agree with you.

 

My son had a male nursery carer prior to going to school, and will have a male teacher for his second year at school, which I can only see as a good thing.

 

Not enough children get this.

 

 

 

But you'll find some that say that a man being a nursery nurse or a male primary school teacher is a further example of the "pussification" of men.

[USMCHokie]

If you're saying there needs to be more male teachers in the school system to provide positive role models for children, especially at primary school age, I happen to agree with you.

 

No, I'm not, though I'm not opposed to it. This goes beyond the individual teachers; it's the suffocating agendas of the school administrations and the pervasive influence of media.

[letsbeotherpeople]

No, I'm not, though I'm not opposed to it. This goes beyond the individual teachers; it's the suffocating agendas of the school administrations and the pervasive influence of media.

 

Well I can only speak to that from a UK perspective, and I've not seen any issue with that here so far. Granted, my son is still only five so maybe this will become apparent in time.

[letsbeotherpeople]

Boys have always had to put up with a culture that didn't like that they were boys and acted like boys. Only the weak willed ones succumb to it.

 

I'm intrigued as to the specifics of this.

 

Could you expand?

[jma500]

You understand the difference between enhancement and facade, I trust?

If so, you would need to ask the above question.

 

And when you have websites, discussions, methodologies, advice on tactics, techniques and approaches on how to pick up women, that's as far from being yourself as its possible to get, especially if you think relationships with women and the act of seduction is a game to be won or lost.

 

This is 100% correct unfortunately the message falls on deaf ears.

[crude]

Boys have always had to put up with a culture that didn't like that they were boys and acted like boys. Only the weak willed ones succumb to it.

 

I don't think boys act like boys, I think boys act like what they think boys are supposed to act like.

And as far as previous generations of men are concerned, all I see are guys who worked 50 hours a week while their lazy wives watched soap operas 5 hours a day. Those men didn't have the balls to expect anything from their worthless wives.