The infamous 'why' thread

[Lady2163]

So do you know 'why' you're having an affair or having a relationship with an unavailable person? I'd like to request people not get harsh with others even if they don't like what they hear or it sounds like the same old excuse.

 

My story is a long one.

 

When I was 16 years old I was seduced by my boss at my part - time job. He was 20 years older than I was. It was a planned, sophisticated targeted seduction. I know by today's standards, people may not believe this. But back in the 1980s, in small town, über conservative Christian area, it was not only possible for a 16 year old, to not only have never kissed a boy, it was probable she had never had a date.

 

Add to that, he brought me into the house as the babysitter. So, now I was welcome at the house, the kids liked me, his wife liked me. I was expected to interact with the wife on a regular basis. She usually picked me up, he usually brought me home.

 

It was a sick, sick thing. He was able to mold me into doing whatever he wanted sexually....which in this case was usually oral sex for him. We didn't have sex for 1.5 years and he insisted he could keep me satisfied with his hands. All my hormones woke up the first time he gave me an orgasm. I'm stunned I passed my classes because I rarely heard anything the teachers said, I was solely focused on how to get my next orgasm. They were not very frequent, it was all about his pleasure.

 

So, my morals and sense of how I should be treated were profoundly warped. How many people would be totally at ease around the betrayed spouse? I also think it stunted my emotional maturity, much in the same way drugs and alcohol do.

 

He was a predator and a child molester...I was still a child. There's a lot of sick examples I could give as to how he manipuated me, but this is going to be a long post as it is. It is probably the equivalent to a 33 year old man having sex with a 13 year old girl today.

 

It also will cause me to carry some bedroom quirks for the rest of my life.

 

I've had sex with a lot of married men. It wasn't until ten years ago until the lightbulb finally came on - when I was in my 30s. I met the three married men i was seeing at different times in a public place and told them they weren't giving me what I wanted (i didn't tell them they really were kind of lousy and treated me horribly). The absolute line that stopped them in their tracks was, "look me in the eye and tell me that all I deserve is an affair. Tell me I am so awful that I don't deserve someone who can be with me all the time."

 

After that, I still failed miserably at finding single men who treated me right. It's been an education. While I'm really not high maintenance, I do have some pretty high standards when I am considering entering a relationship with a man.

 

It was during the time that I'd finally quit bothering to have sex with men I knew I didn't want anything long term with that I stumbled into my current situation of a long distance relationship with a married man. We'd had a one night stand 25 years ago.

 

I'm getting ready to remove the physical aspect from the relationship. I'm pretty sure we can still be friends. It's going to take him a few months to ask me why nothing has been scheduled.

 

I've been looking at different singles activities in the nearest city to me, 90 minutes away. It's going to be agony for me to take the time to spend three hours going to and from the events and just make the effort to be social. But, I've tried the online thing and that just doesn't work for me.

 

Two final thoughts....

Even though I've been around the block, I've only had unprotected sex with less than five men in 30 ish years. I've never had a disease or been pregnant. I may have been loose, but I wasnt a total idiot.

 

Second: if any of the betrayed spouses ever tracked me down, I would apologize for MY actions and accept responsibility for what I did after approximately age 22 or so. I would take 50% of the blame, but not 51%.

[bentleychic]

We were friends. We talked all the time. We became best friends. I loved him. It happened.

 

It definitely wasn't a planned thing and I didn't specifically seek out a married man.

[happy stillmore]

Lady,

 

Your story is complicated but not really. You were wrongly manipulated both physically and emotionally. Your first sexual experiences were formed by this older man who took advantage of you. I give you a lot of credit in recognizing that you do deserve relationships with single men in which you can be 100% loved. In my mind, the first guy "raped" you as you weren't emotionally old enough to consent to his actions.

 

I'm glad you know you deserve more in this life. break the cycle now.

 

MM= self hatred (you have proven this is not true)

 

You sound like a wise woman who can see the whole picture and loves herself. I hope you find a man who can add to your happiness.

[Sarabi]

I prefer to switch it round

If their lives are so amazing and they are happily committed to a significant other then what makes them think they can date single/other people?

 

In my case I initially thought that if he has no respect for his marriage then why should I? It wasn't my problem...until it began to get on my nerves

People stand there and tell you whilst you are alone, to respect and be happy with yourself before you can enter a relationship...

So when you are finally in one why is it up to the rest of the world to have more respect for your business whilst you yourself have none?

Anyway...I dunno.

I also believed that I could handle it and that certain things were fine; oh that hug is fine, oh the way we're talking to each other is fine, oh meeting up for that one drink is fine...oh that little kiss is fine...

Until it escalates

Poor boundaries in my case...

[thefooloftheyear]

God help ANY middle aged man that thinks they are going to mindfck(and get physical) with my daughter when shes of that age,,,They will wish they were never born..

 

TFY

[bentleychic]

I have learned about the slippery slope. "We're just friends on Facebook. We're just in boxing. We're just talking on the phone. We're working on business together..." Next thing you know, it's out of control.

 

These days I prefer to nip things in the bud at the get go, even before hello.

 

Indeed. That's why I ALWAYS encourage married partners not to become THE best friend for someone else. Not to become THE support and shoulder to lean on for someone else. IMO your spouse should be your best friend, your supporter, your shoulder to lean on. Putting yourself in that position can easily lead to that slippery slope. It becomes even easier if you feel like something is lacking in your M and you think you've found it in the other person. (Whether that's really true or not.)

 

(The kicker is, I knew all of the above before I fell in to this. I used to caution my exH about it. I obviously was not immune to it. Though I am single, I wasn't thinking from HIS (MM) side.)

Edited July 28, 2013 by bentleychic

[Lady2163]

God help ANY middle aged man that thinks they are going to mindfck(and get physical) with my daughter when shes of that age,,,They will wish they were never born..

 

TFY

 

TFY I'm not saying this to scare you, but there is next to nothing my folks could have done to stop this.

 

We actually met on a community project, that involved all ages. I had done some babysitting, a paper route and farm work during the summers. It was expected that I have a part time job. Even if a parent today said, "you aren't working until you're out of high school," he still would have been able to use me as a babysitter.

 

There was no reason for them to say "no" to the community project.

 

One possible alert: be very aware when your child starts saying, "John Doe said" a lot of they seem to be spending a little too much time in their company. "I was over at the Doe's" doesn't necessarily mean all the Does were home. Watch for mannerism, belief, knowledge and verbal changes. I magically picked up some skilks not taught in school, but was one of his hobbies. I picked up a lot of their phrases and used them and these were not slang phraes teenagers would use.

[Pierre]

So do you know 'why' you're having an affair or having a relationship with an unavailable person? I'd like to request people not get harsh with others even if they don't like what they hear or it sounds like the same old excuse.

 

My story is a long one.

 

When I was 16 years old I was seduced by my boss at my part - time job. He was 20 years older than I was. It was a planned, sophisticated targeted seduction. I know by today's standards, people may not believe this. But back in the 1980s, in small town, über conservative Christian area, it was not only possible for a 16 year old, to not only have never kissed a boy, it was probable she had never had a date.

 

Add to that, he brought me into the house as the babysitter. So, now I was welcome at the house, the kids liked me, his wife liked me. I was expected to interact with the wife on a regular basis. She usually picked me up, he usually brought me home.

 

It was a sick, sick thing. He was able to mold me into doing whatever he wanted sexually....which in this case was usually oral sex for him. We didn't have sex for 1.5 years and he insisted he could keep me satisfied with his hands. All my hormones woke up the first time he gave me an orgasm. I'm stunned I passed my classes because I rarely heard anything the teachers said, I was solely focused on how to get my next orgasm. They were not very frequent, it was all about his pleasure.

 

So, my morals and sense of how I should be treated were profoundly warped. How many people would be totally at ease around the betrayed spouse? I also think it stunted my emotional maturity, much in the same way drugs and alcohol do.

 

He was a predator and a child molester...I was still a child. There's a lot of sick examples I could give as to how he manipuated me, but this is going to be a long post as it is. It is probably the equivalent to a 33 year old man having sex with a 13 year old girl today.

 

It also will cause me to carry some bedroom quirks for the rest of my life.

 

I've had sex with a lot of married men. It wasn't until ten years ago until the lightbulb finally came on - when I was in my 30s. I met the three married men i was seeing at different times in a public place and told them they weren't giving me what I wanted (i didn't tell them they really were kind of lousy and treated me horribly). The absolute line that stopped them in their tracks was, "look me in the eye and tell me that all I deserve is an affair. Tell me I am so awful that I don't deserve someone who can be with me all the time."

 

After that, I still failed miserably at finding single men who treated me right. It's been an education. While I'm really not high maintenance, I do have some pretty high standards when I am considering entering a relationship with a man.

 

It was during the time that I'd finally quit bothering to have sex with men I knew I didn't want anything long term with that I stumbled into my current situation of a long distance relationship with a married man. We'd had a one night stand 25 years ago.

 

I'm getting ready to remove the physical aspect from the relationship. I'm pretty sure we can still be friends. It's going to take him a few months to ask me why nothing has been scheduled.

 

I've been looking at different singles activities in the nearest city to me, 90 minutes away. It's going to be agony for me to take the time to spend three hours going to and from the events and just make the effort to be social. But, I've tried the online thing and that just doesn't work for me.

 

Two final thoughts....

Even though I've been around the block, I've only had unprotected sex with less than five men in 30 ish years. I've never had a disease or been pregnant. I may have been loose, but I wasnt a total idiot.

 

Second: if any of the betrayed spouses ever tracked me down, I would apologize for MY actions and accept responsibility for what I did after approximately age 22 or so. I would take 50% of the blame, but not 51%.

 

 

Very nicely organized post, but I feel something is missing about the "why".

 

Could you describe your childhood, relationship with dad and mom, FOO, memes? I think in your case the "why" is there.

 

Thanks for sharing.

[Pierre]

God help ANY middle aged man that thinks they are going to mindfck(and get physical) with my daughter when shes of that age,,,They will wish they were never born..

 

TFY

 

It all depends on how you raise your daughter. It may happen and she may not say a word to you. Keep the channel of communication open.

[Lady2163]

Lady I had a very similar experience when I was teenager but I had a very different response to it.

 

I was 15 and babysitting for a couple who lived across the street from me. They were from another country and another culture and they had a marriage that reflected the traditions of their culture. He was the bread winner, the man of the house, and he made all of the decisions. He was dominant and she was submissive. She stayed home to take care of the kids and take care of her husband and she spoke very little English so all our communication was through her husband. He had to call me to tell me when they needed a babysitter and he had to give me all of the instructions regarding meals, bedtime, where stuff is, etc.

 

They were mid to late 20's and they were both gorgeous. Although she didn't talk much English she was always so sweet and kind. He was super good looking and sexy and liked to smoke pot as did I and he knew that. So sometimes when he would see me out and about the neighborhood he would ask me if I needed a ride home and I would accept only we wouldn't go home. We lived on the outskirts of the city and so we would drive down some country road and he would smoke a joint with me and then he'd take me home. Well on one of these outings we became sexual with each other. No we didn't have sex, I wouldn't let him get below my belt but I let him feel me from the waist up and I touched him and he climaxed. As one of my first sexual experiences it was very exciting to me and I was heady on weed and hormones. I was quite happy when he dropped me off at home a little later but I soon found myself feeling ashamed of actions. It started to torment me. I was having nightmares about his wife finding out and telling my parents and my parents looking at me with shame and disgust. Now when I went over to their house to babysit I found myself unable to his wife in the eye. She would be all smiles and trying to offer me things to drink and eat and I would just look away from her and mumble no thanks. She must have wondered why I didn't like her, but I did like her, it was just guilt eating me up.

 

It never happened again. The next time he asked me to go smoke dope with him I declined because I figured he'd want a repeat performance and I couldn't stomach the thought. Not only that but the whole thing seemed to completely put me off married men forever. Ever since that incident any married man who hit on me, disgusted me and even if I had liked them before hand and maybe even secretly crushed on them a little I would instantly lose all respect for them. Kind of at catch 22 because I could only be attracted to a married man for as long as they were living up to my fantasy of them as a strong loyal married man, but the second they showed a willingness to cheat my fantasy of them would be destroyed and I'd become turned off.

 

 

I'm very sorry that happened to you. I'm glad you were able to protect yourself against it continuing. I hope karma visited him later in life.

 

I do remember I felt bad at least twice. But, being totally young and dumb, who do you think I talked to about my feelings? He had an answer for everything.

[Lady2163]

Very nicely organized post, but I feel something is missing about the "why".

 

Could you describe your childhood, relationship with dad and mom, FOO, memes? I think in your case the "why" is there.

 

Thanks for sharing.

 

I thought about including a couple of things about parents and family, but couldn't disguise it to my satisfaction.

 

Grandparents deceased when I was young.

Father's occupation may have been a hindrance to having normal interaction with teenaged boys. (Think Preacher, teacher, law enforcement, etc).

 

Awesome mother.

 

I don't think my childhood was one that repeat predators would have chosen me as a possible victim.

 

What is FOO and meme ?

[LilGirlandOW]

I had a similar experience.

 

These are the actual events, still vivid in my memory

 

I was 14, he (AP)23. I was babysitting his nephew with my best friend (AP's other sister). AP lived with his older sister and her family.

 

Late that night, he brought out beer and suggested we three (He, sister and I) drank the beer, for sister and I it was our first time drinking any alcohol, as she was a year younger than I. Later that night AP performed oral sex on me, I told my friend (the younger sister) the next day as I was confused and embarassed and she was my best friend. She told her parents right away who told AP's FIANCE the same day! Fiance (same age as AP) threatened to beat the **** out of me for trying to steal her partner, the whole family (not including my best friend) took fiance's side and it was a traumatic hell. I told nobody else after that, literally except for here and now. She never beat the **** out of me, I am facebook friends with my old best friend and see him posting on her facebook from time to time, he's married now with kids. Makes me sick!

[Lady2163]

I had a similar experience.

 

These are the actual events, still vivid in my memory

 

I was 14, he (AP)23. I was babysitting his nephew with my best friend (AP's other sister). AP lived with his older sister and her family.

 

Late that night, he brought out beer and suggested we three (He, sister and I) drank the beer, for sister and I it was our first time drinking any alcohol, as she was a year younger than I. Later that night AP performed oral sex on me, I told my friend (the younger sister) the next day as I was confused and embarassed and she was my best friend. She told her parents right away who told AP's FIANCE the same day! Fiance (same age as AP) threatened to beat the **** out of me for trying to steal her partner, the whole family (not including my best friend) took fiance's side and it was a traumatic hell. I told nobody else after that, literally except for here and now. She never beat the **** out of me, I am facebook friends with my old best friend and see him posting on her facebook from time to time, he's married now with kids. Makes me sick!

 

 

I've always wondered about the correlation between abuse and cheaters and the correlation between abuse and other women/other men.

 

Chester the molester and I have mutual friends on Facebook. He's never added me. I doubt I'd accept.

[Got it]

Lady, I am terribly sorry to read your story. That is just awful.

 

My why is different. I settled in my marriage because he was safe and the most low key person around, having come from a very anger household with a very bad tempered father. He was the opposite, safe, and I didn't worry about what he would do. We started dating in high school and I knew I would be foolish to let him go as we became adults as he was the "right" guy. And I looked at it and what if I gambled on letting him go and then didn't have anyone, then were would I be. We had co-dependency issues as well, I couldn't be alone, and so I clung to him. I loved him with a deep friendship but always tried to reconcile so what if the more sexual areas fell flat. Who ended things over that?

 

He was very supportive in the sport that did and was a fantastic help as well as never getting upset about the time and money I spent on it.

 

So I was a spoiled brat on it, used him for what I needed, and just stayed though not terribly happy. We didn't fight so why break up.

 

As we aged I became more independent, I became financial secure, and we also were running two separate lives. He never wanted to go out, I would invite him but I had friends he had never met. We had a major break up in college that we should have stayed broken up. I needed therapy then to deal with my issues and instead we just fell back together.

 

So by the end of the marriage, I had been working on getting out as I was finding I really enjoyed my time away more than being home. I was worried about him emotionally, so was afraid to pull the plug. When the affair happened I knew I was done. He had been the only person I had had sex with so to have sex with someone else was huge. I left a few weeks later.

 

He is a great guy but we should have been just friends decades ago. We can talk, be friends, but when I look at him its like a brother; there is zero sexual attraction.

 

My affair was a "testing the water" thing I think. I don't see myself having another one for a multitude of reasons. I have only had sex with two people and I really have little interest in changing that.

[bentleychic]

Here here! (Or is it hear hear, LOL.)

 

It makes me feel a certain way, though, because until now, I believed men and women could be just friends, and that may be the case for some, but as for me and my life and how I conduct my household -- no.

 

I actually have a few male friends from work, but it is entirely a very rare/occasional text, no sexual jokes or innuendos, no going out together, very out in the open, friends with their wives IRL and on facebook kind of thing. More like "big brother" friendships and it works out very well. No attraction, no physical affection, no discussing marital problems (due to that slippery slope).

 

The only other guys that I thought I could be friends with ended very poorly. Every single *expletive* one ended up trying to cross the line (professing love or asking for...intimacy), single or married without provocation from me.

[thefooloftheyear]

TFY I'm not saying this to scare you, but there is next to nothing my folks could have done to stop this.

 

We actually met on a community project, that involved all ages. I had done some babysitting, a paper route and farm work during the summers. It was expected that I have a part time job. Even if a parent today said, "you aren't working until you're out of high school," he still would have been able to use me as a babysitter.

 

There was no reason for them to say "no" to the community project.

 

One possible alert: be very aware when your child starts saying, "John Doe said" a lot of they seem to be spending a little too much time in their company. "I was over at the Doe's" doesn't necessarily mean all the Does were home. Watch for mannerism, belief, knowledge and verbal changes. I magically picked up some skilks not taught in school, but was one of his hobbies. I picked up a lot of their phrases and used them and these were not slang phraes teenagers would use.

 

I just dont see that happening...sorry Im not being critical when I say this, but you probably didnt have the type of relationship with your father that I do with my kid.....Im too involved in her life- she condides in everything with me....Shed likely tell me the minute anything remotely"happpened"....Then someones getting a ride to the hospital...pr the morgue...

 

TFY

Edited July 28, 2013 by thefooloftheyear

[thefooloftheyear]

I've always wondered about the correlation between abuse and cheaters and the correlation between abuse and other women/other men.

 

Chester the molester and I have mutual friends on Facebook. He's never added me. I doubt I'd accept.

 

You doubt you would accept??

 

hmmmm

 

TFY

[Lady2163]

You doubt you would accept??

 

hmmmm

 

TFY

 

Not a Freudian slip, I meant that to imply 'no'.

[Lady2163]

You would be surprised. If a kid or teenager feels that they were responsible in any way shape or form for a sexual encounter, and they often do wrongly place the blame on themselves, they will be very reluctant to talk to anyone about it, especially a parent.

 

Parents who believe they know everything there is to know about their kid are a little bit delusional. I used to think my kids would tell me everything too but when they grew up and told me some things that I had absolutely no idea about I realized I had been kidding myself.

 

 

I didn't want to disagree and appear argumentative, but what popped into my head was:

 

Oh what a tangled web they weave;

When parents think they're children are naive

[thefooloftheyear]

You would be surprised. If a kid or teenager feels that they were responsible in any way shape or form for a sexual encounter, and they often do wrongly place the blame on themselves, they will be very reluctant to talk to anyone about it, especially a parent.

 

Parents who believe they know everything there is to know about their kid are a little bit delusional. I used to think my kids would tell me everything too but when they grew up and told me some things that I had absolutely no idea about I realized I had been kidding myself.

 

I never said i know everything...Lets just call it a "feeling"..Parents give too much trust and leeway to kids these days because thats the way they view life or they are too busy or consumed with their own issues. Ive raised my kid to NEVER be ashamed to tell me anything,..And even though she is still a little young, there is no way in hell I think shed keep a secret like that..

 

Parents these days dont snoop either..They think their underage kids have "rights"..they do, but when it comes to this type of crap, if you wind up folowing them without their permission, checking their computer or diary and find out about something like this, then so be it...Tough shyt about their privacy..maybe you saved someone from a lifetime of regret. Or even saved their life..

 

When they are out on their own and truly emancipated then they can fck farm animals if they want..Its their choice as an adult..I might not agree with it, but I cant control it..

 

TFY

[Pierre]

TFY I'm not saying this to scare you, but there is next to nothing my folks could have done to stop this.

 

 

Yes and no. I do agree, that some things are unavoidable, but most 16 year old girls would not succumb to the advances of an old man.

 

The old guy identified a weakness and he exploited the weakness. Sadly it is not that different from a married man finding a single adult women that will give him sexual favors.

 

 

Some perverse men are simply good at recognizing vulnerable women and they know how to exploit them.

[Pierre]

I thought about including a couple of things about parents and family, but couldn't disguise it to my satisfaction.

 

Grandparents deceased when I was young.

Father's occupation may have been a hindrance to having normal interaction with teenaged boys. (Think Preacher, teacher, law enforcement, etc).

 

Awesome mother.

 

I don't think my childhood was one that repeat predators would have chosen me as a possible victim.

 

What is FOO and meme ?

 

A meme (/ˈmiːm/; meem)[1] is "an idea, behavior, or style that spreads from person to person within a culture."[2] A meme acts as a unit for carrying cultural ideas, symbols, or practices that can be transmitted from one mind to another through writing, speech, gestures, rituals, or other imitable phenomena. Supporters of the concept regard memes as cultural analogues to genes in that they self-replicate, mutate, and respond to selective pressures.[3] (wiki)

 

 

 

Obviously memes from the family are extremely powerful, but we also get memes from society at large.

 

FOO: Family of origin. We tend to be a lot like our family members.

[happy stillmore]

Pierre,

 

I get the impression you have a degree in sociology or psychology. If so, this thread is perfect for you if you are conducting studies of human behavior. The prevalent answer to "why people have affairs" is the need for validation. Am I right?

Edited July 29, 2013 by happy stillmore

[Lady2163]

Pierre,

 

I get the impression you have a degree in sociology or psychology. If so, this thread is perfect for you if you are conducting studies of human behavior. The prevalent answer to "why people have affairs" is the need for validation. Am I right?

 

I have two degrees in Psychology and still hadn't heard FOO...

 

To the best of my knowledge, I'm a bit of an oddity in my family, not in a bad way, just I took a different path.

 

I know I threw a whole lot out there and some people reading it may have pangs of sorrow for me or view me as damaged goods, but except for my sexual...immorality(?), I've had an awesome life. I won't bore you with a detailed list, but in the last seven years, lots of great things have happened to me. The relationship I'm having with a married man has not been the only thing that defines me.

 

I'm not even unhappy with how things are with him. It works within my lifestyle. I've just reached a point where I have some things in my life I wouldn't want to lose, yet every time, I'm asking him to put his special things on the line for me.

 

But, Pierre, I'll also tell you I do think I am one of those people meant to be single. It doesn't make me a bad person or tragic, it's just who I probably am.

[happy stillmore]

Lady,

 

Your question made me think of reasons to how we, OW, arrived to be in an affair. There are many reasons. For me, I was trying to fill an emotional need. I needed someone to connect with as I was feeling so alone. Some say, AP are seeking validation of their worth. Some AP may not feel they deserve any love so they settle for less. I felt I deserved more in my life and sought what I was looking for in my affair (although it was wrong while married.)

 

You know yourself. If you are happy with your life, none else has the right to comment or criticize. Your question is provocative and got me thinking. I think it is always a good thing to be introspective and learn from our past to make changes that lead to a brighter future.