Lies, lies lies.

[It-is-what-it-is.]

So I am trying to make sense of something...so calling all OM,OW,MM,MW, WW,WH and interested parties.

 

How is it that OW/OM are just so sure that they know what is happening between the BS and the AP? How do you KNOW they sleep in separate beds? How do you KNOW they are not behaving as a couple/family? How do you know that they are not saying I love yous and future planning?

 

If the information isn't coming from the BS, how do you believe it? I am reading all these posts about the previously dead marriage, in name only marriage, living like roommates situations...if that is really true then wouldn't you want confirmation from the spouse that its true? How do you just believe it? Even if you are "friends" with the spouse, nobody knows what goes on behind closed doors?

 

A person who is married and having an affair, is by definition pretty skilled at lying. And by definition, does not have difficult lying for moral or ethical or compassionate reasons. How do you KNOW (s)he isn't telling you as many lies as the spouse.

 

At some point in their relationship there was enough of a commitment to get married. At some point a decision was made to lie and break that commitment. How is it that you don't believe it is also happening to you?

 

So when you say something like "BS is blackmailing him into staying in the marriage because of the kids"...how do you know he just isn't saying that to you to make you sympathetic and stay his piece on the side, but has no intention of leaving, and frankly believes he loves his wife?

 

How do you know? Or does it not matter?

[Realist3]

How is it that OW/OM are just so sure that they know what is happening between the BS and the AP? How do you KNOW they sleep in separate beds? How do you KNOW they are not behaving as a couple/family? How do you know that they are not saying I love yous and future planning?

 

I know they sleep in the same bed and assume they have sex every night. So what?

[affairaddict]

Mine never spoke about her or the set up. I presume they shared a bed and had sex yes, but presumed something was wrong for him to want to talk to me all day every day about his life, worries, sex, kids, basically what a husband should be talking to his wife about..

 

Anyway he couldn't answer me why he couldn't talk to her anymore like it, so presumed I touched a nerve.

Hopefully he can get that back somehow since I gave him the elbow.

[aliveagain]

I think it's all about the rush they get from convincing another messed up person that they are a worth while catch. Most people would see them for what they are and blow them off, question, why didn't you?

[Try]

How is it that OW/OM are just so sure that they know what is happening between the BS and the AP? How do you KNOW they sleep in separate beds? How do you KNOW they are not behaving as a couple/family? How do you know that they are not saying I love yous and future planning?

When a famous con man was asking how he was able to get people to believe the unbelievable, he answered that he could get people to believe anything if they want to believe it. The affair partner wants to believe that the marraige is over so they do not feel so guilty, and so that they can fool themselves into believing that their married affair partner is not cheating on them with the spouse. They want to believe that they are the significant other, but for a technicallity. Of course not all affair partners think this way, but for those that do this is the answer.

[So happy together]

I trusted him. I was right to.

[It-is-what-it-is.]

I know they sleep in the same bed and assume they have sex every night. So what?

 

Ok so for you there was no explanation or justification and you didn't need it?

 

Thanks, so this question doesn't apply to your sitch.

[It-is-what-it-is.]

Mine never spoke about her or the set up. I presume they shared a bed and had sex yes, but presumed something was wrong for him to want to talk to me all day every day about his life, worries, sex, kids, basically what a husband should be talking to his wife about..

 

Anyway he couldn't answer me why he couldn't talk to her anymore like it, so presumed I touched a nerve.

Hopefully he can get that back somehow since I gave him the elbow.

 

Ok so while he talked to you about their family problems, which coud be truth or lie, he didn't justify the affair with you? So ok, that also seems more like a lie of omission or avoidance..but probably not outright tales...

 

Thanks for responding.

[It-is-what-it-is.]

I think it's all about the rush they get from convincing another messed up person that they are a worth while catch. Most people would see them for what they are and blow them off, question, why didn't you?

 

I am not sure who this was directed at.

 

I am not personally involved in an affair, I am trying to make sense of something I do not understand. It does not feel logical, to me.

[It-is-what-it-is.]

I trusted him. I was right to.

 

Yes, I know that you believe he has been truthful to you.

 

So how do reconcile that with the lies he told his wife? That is what I am trying to understand.

 

I know from reading your posts that you are very pro affair and such, but I am really trying to understand and not just assume I get it.

 

So thanks for the response, I appreciate your time.

 

I am looking for the how and why of that.

 

Or did it not matter?

[affairaddict]

He didn't talk to me about family problems ever! He didn't say bad things about her ever.

 

We spoke About good things or problems which had nothing to do with his Fiancee. like" im worried about my Brothers addictions, my half brother Has cancer I'm upset" etc.. Life, work , our meetings. His children. Of course we spoke about our affair, how we felt etc..as far as I know he didn't tell me any lies as he wasn't bad mouthing his family. He wanted someone to talk to and opened up to me about things.

Emotional affairs are just that emotional. It's unrealistic to think these men are honest all the time but it's also unrealistic to put them all In the same category. Some find someone they can talk to easily and form an emotional bond with them.

 

I'm not saying it's right but

[So happy together]

Yes, I know that you believe he has been truthful to you.

 

So how do reconcile that with the lies he told his wife? That is what I am trying to understand.

 

I know from reading your posts that you are very pro affair and such, but I am really trying to understand and not just assume I get it.

 

So thanks for the response, I appreciate your time.

 

I am looking for the how and why of that.

 

Or did it not matter?

 

 

How many times do I have to say I am neither pro, or con, affair? To me you just sound angry. How can we help?

[It-is-what-it-is.]

To further clarify...yesterday, I read a link someone posted on polyamory. Something that I just don't get either. Hey, whatever consenting adults want is fine, but don't get it.

 

Read the article and thought, ok, not for me, but ok, I kinda get why and how enough to see the perspective.

 

I have a couple specific things about affairs I am trying to understand, not from an observers perspective, but from a participants. Not trying to change your mind or make you feel guilty, I want to understand.

 

I didn't want to delve anymore on your personal threads, because you are looking for support, or camaraderie, when I am merely satisfying a need to educate myself to your perspective.

 

I will ask the other questions separately.

 

My opinion is the nature of an affair, by definition is a lie. Fairly black and white view.

 

Thanks for taking the time to respond.

[It-is-what-it-is.]

How many times do I have to say I am neither pro, or con, affair? To me you just sound angry. How can we help?

 

I am not in any way angry. Asked a question, then a clarifying question. To me you sound defensive, why would my question make you feel defensive?

[Turtles]

It comes down to trust. This post is not so different from one asking how a reconciling BS can ever trust her spouse again, which would get lambasted for calling reconciling BS doormats etc (recurring thread theme, in fact there is an active thread about it right now). You either trust someone, or you don't. The fact that they are actively deceiving someone else at the same time may or may not be relevant depending on the situation but it is only one of the factors one would take into account when deciding to give their trust.

 

And that's only for a fraction of affairs, I think in many cases the AP don't care or don't want to know what the other one does with their spouse.

[Realist3]

Ok so for you there was no explanation or justification and you didn't need it?

 

Thanks, so this question doesn't apply to your sitch.

 

Correct, I didn't and don't need it. They are married and will do all of the things married people do.

 

I guess my point is I don't get where OM/OW get this crazy idea that they won't be doing those things. Scratch that. I know where they may get it, but I don't get why they buy it.

[It-is-what-it-is.]

It comes down to trust. This post is not so different from one asking how a reconciling BS can ever trust her spouse again, which would get lambasted for calling reconciling BS doormats etc (recurring thread theme, in fact there is an active thread about it right now). You either trust someone, or you don't. The fact that they are actively deceiving someone else at the same time may or may not be relevant depending on the situation but it is only one of the factors one would take into account when deciding to give their trust.

 

And that's only for a fraction of affairs, I think in many cases the AP don't care or don't want to know what the other one does with their spouse.

 

BS have all kinds of reasons to try or not try to salvage after an affair. I think one of the most damaging part of an affair is the lying, and for BS the biggest hurdle to try to overcome (forgive or no). I do understand all of those reasons and motives so that is why I asked the question the other direction. In most cases, I believe the BS assumes they are NOT being lied to.

 

So that makes sense, but I assume going into an affair the parties know or assume there is lying?

 

Or they don't care one way or the other. That's what I want to understand.

 

Maybe it's just me and this is perfectly logical to everyone else?

[hippetyhop]

So I am trying to make sense of something...so calling all OM,OW,MM,MW, WW,WH and interested parties.

 

How is it that OW/OM are just so sure that they know what is happening between the BS and the AP? How do you KNOW they sleep in separate beds? How do you KNOW they are not behaving as a couple/family? How do you know that they are not saying I love yous and future planning?

 

If the information isn't coming from the BS, how do you believe it? I am reading all these posts about the previously dead marriage, in name only marriage, living like roommates situations...if that is really true then wouldn't you want confirmation from the spouse that its true? How do you just believe it? Even if you are "friends" with the spouse, nobody knows what goes on behind closed doors?

 

A person who is married and having an affair, is by definition pretty skilled at lying. And by definition, does not have difficult lying for moral or ethical or compassionate reasons. How do you KNOW (s)he isn't telling you as many lies as the spouse.

 

At some point in their relationship there was enough of a commitment to get married. At some point a decision was made to lie and break that commitment. How is it that you don't believe it is also happening to you?

 

So when you say something like "BS is blackmailing him into staying in the marriage because of the kids"...how do you know he just isn't saying that to you to make you sympathetic and stay his piece on the side, but has no intention of leaving, and frankly believes he loves his wife?

 

How do you know? Or does it not matter?

 

I was the OW and if anything--the one thing I didn't know was their sex life. I didn't care to know.

 

I knew they would do things as a family, etc. He would tell me. He would tell me when they would go to the zoo as a family, or getting ready for their vacation, or spending holidays out of town.

 

I knew they when they would have their problems as well because he would tell me. He'd mention to me when he's been given the silent treatment by her, or when they would be arguing. In the same breath, if they were watching a game or tv together, he'd tell me he had to be on the downlow since she was there by him.

 

I thought him and I had pretty good communications on that realm.

[canuckprincess]

So I am trying to make sense of something...so calling all OM,OW,MM,MW, WW,WH and interested parties.

 

How is it that OW/OM are just so sure that they know what is happening between the BS and the AP? How do you KNOW they sleep in separate beds? How do you KNOW they are not behaving as a couple/family? How do you know that they are not saying I love yous and future planning?

 

If the information isn't coming from the BS, how do you believe it? I am reading all these posts about the previously dead marriage, in name only marriage, living like roommates situations...if that is really true then wouldn't you want confirmation from the spouse that its true? How do you just believe it? Even if you are "friends" with the spouse, nobody knows what goes on behind closed doors?

 

A person who is married and having an affair, is by definition pretty skilled at lying. And by definition, does not have difficult lying for moral or ethical or compassionate reasons. How do you KNOW (s)he isn't telling you as many lies as the spouse.

 

At some point in their relationship there was enough of a commitment to get married. At some point a decision was made to lie and break that commitment. How is it that you don't believe it is also happening to you?

 

So when you say something like "BS is blackmailing him into staying in the marriage because of the kids"...how do you know he just isn't saying that to you to make you sympathetic and stay his piece on the side, but has no intention of leaving, and frankly believes he loves his wife?

 

How do you know? Or does it not matter?

 

I can't speak for others however I don't know for sure. All I know is what he tells me and how he gives me what I need in our relationship. Is he future faking us both, quite possibly yes. Some ow's believe everything they are told by mm, I know he lies through omission to his wife so my eyes are wide open cause I know he could just as easily be lying to me. He lies to his wife to keep her and I'm sure if he lies to me it's for the exact same reason.

[It-is-what-it-is.]

I was the OW and if anything--the one thing I didn't know was their sex life. I didn't care to know.

 

I knew they would do things as a family, etc. He would tell me. He would tell me when they would go to the zoo as a family, or getting ready for their vacation, or spending holidays out of town.

 

I knew they when they would have their problems as well because he would tell me. He'd mention to me when he's been given the silent treatment by her, or when they would be arguing. In the same breath, if they were watching a game or tv together, he'd tell me he had to be on the downlow since she was there by him.

 

I thought him and I had pretty good communications on that realm.

 

Thanks for your response.

[hippetyhop]

I can't speak for others however I don't know for sure. All I know is what he tells me and how he gives me what I need in our relationship. Is he future faking us both, quite possibly yes. Some ow's believe everything they are told by mm, I know he lies through omission to his wife so my eyes are wide open cause I know he could just as easily be lying to me. He lies to his wife to keep her and I'm sure if he lies to me it's for the exact same reason.

 

That is a very valid point as well.

 

Mine never future faked. He would say things like "I'd be shocked if we're (he and BS) still together in the next 5 years", etc...but no promises to me. I think that made the A easier to end.

[2sure]

Correct, I didn't and don't need it. They are married and will do all of the things married people do.

 

I guess my point is I don't get where OM/OW get this crazy idea that they won't be doing those things. Scratch that. I know where they may get it, but I don't get why they buy it.

 

 

Exactly! Why buy it? Why do you need to? I've never understood that. I can be against affairs and at the same time not damn someone to hell for not thinking the same. But ....

 

Why does a MM not tell BS he is having an affair? Why does he lie about what is going on his life to his wife? Because he wants to have the affair, not break up the marriage. He wants to have what he wants with no consequences . So he lies. Tells her what she needs to hear. That's not a stretch, common sense really, happens all the time.

 

So if OW isn't the kind to want a NSA affair, or needs justification...why wouldn't he do the same thing? It's all the same goal. So he doesn't tell her the truth about what's going on at home, tells her what she wants to hear. Not a stretch, common sense, happens all the time.

 

I'm not saying a MM is always telling OW lies. But I'd be very very very hesitant to believe a word.

[It-is-what-it-is.]

I can't speak for others however I don't know for sure. All I know is what he tells me and how he gives me what I need in our relationship. Is he future faking us both, quite possibly yes. Some ow's believe everything they are told by mm, I know he lies through omission to his wife so my eyes are wide open cause I know he could just as easily be lying to me. He lies to his wife to keep her and I'm sure if he lies to me it's for the exact same reason.

 

Thank you.

[j'adore]

Because i tested it over and over again by calling him early and late at night, even waking him up, several times when we were going through an emotional turmoil. Because he had problems with her physically before he met me (i won't tell you how i know that but it is not through just MM) and also because i never take anything at face value having been on LS lol Because she just wants the status quo and is happy as long as he does not leave her and she has undeniable proof that he is still seeing me so I doubt she would even fancy him. And because I have had proof that the live separate lives.

[imfine]

Perhaps it's easy to believe they live like roommates, sleep in separate beds, etc. if the OM/OW are/were in a marriage like that. Some MM/MW know just what to say to make the lies very believable.