Defense of BS Who R

[KathyM]

Beautiful post! Ideally nobody would ever tolerate abuse.

 

What bothers me, still, is when people use this argument to attack and shame a BS instead of to motivate the BS. The BS is often in love. And when the people doing it are happily married themselves, or who are at the top of society, or who have been dealt great cards. It's easy to preach from a lofty position. It seems suspiciously like kicking somebody who has less than you. That same person is going to be derided for being alone too, you know.

 

If the marriage is utterly a sham, and there is nothing left of it, then of course the right way is clear. But what about grayer situations?

 

 

Do you apply always the same logic to other relationships? For instance, in the work place, if an underling is being mistreated and wronged, should he or she keep his or her dignity and quit? What if there aren't any more jobs?

 

I think it comes down to the difference between necessity and luxury. A marriage, in richer societies, is considered a luxury now.

I don't believe the BS should be shamed at all. She did nothing wrong. She hurt no one. I do try to encourage women not to put up with philandering men, and do try to encourage them to have self respect and not keep taking a cheater back out of fear of change, fear of the unknown, or fear of being alone. The more infidelity is tolerated, the more it is normalized, and the more the cheater will feel entitled to cheat or feel that there will be no real consequences to his cheating. I don't like to see women keep themselves in a situation where they are devalued.

 

I'm not sure where you are going with your workplace analogy. If I was being abused by an employer, I would leave, and I have. I'd rather be unemployed for awhile, or move in with my mother than to continue to be abused day after day. You are implying that if a woman leaves her cheating husband, she will be worse off than being on her own or eventually finding someone else. I'll take my chances alone. I'd rather be alone and divorced, or have the potential to meet someone who will be faithful, than to stay with a man who continues to lie, cheat and disrespect me. No question. I refuse to waste my life on someone who would treat me so badly that he would continue to cheat on me.

[janedoe67]

Speaking as a fWW, I know that cheating is never excused. Cheating is always wrong. I can have some respect for a WS who takes full responsibility for their choice to cheat, who is remorseful, who is willing to be transparent, and who is willing to do the hard work to help their BS heal. I can also Respect a BS who is generously willing to allow a repentant WS to have a second chance. I can also respect a BS who just knows that they cannot get past that sort of betrayal and leave.

 

I cannot respect a WS who refuses to be repentant or humbled over their actions. And I cannot respect a BS who, years down the road with a repentant WS, is still clinging to the moral high ground, punishing, withholding, and making it clear that they simply "tolerate" their FWS. Someone who is incapable of moving forward needs to cut the ties, whether BS or WS.

[Eggplant]

And I cannot respect a BS who, years down the road with a repentant WS, is still clinging to the moral high ground, punishing, withholding, and making it clear that they simply "tolerate" their FWS. Someone who is incapable of moving forward needs to cut the ties, whether BS or WS.

What would be a reasonable duration of time for the BS to be angry at the WS and still be married?

[janedoe67]

Not sure. But I know a woman whose husband abused her and falsley accused her of cheating practically every time she went to the grocery store for years....and one time when she went on a vacation with some friends, she ended up drinking too much and slept with a guy. The first thing she did upon returning home was tearfully confess, repent, begin working on making amends, became completely transparent, and turned herself into a pretzel trying to help him heal. She took full responsibility.

 

Five years later and he is still telling her she is a slut, telling her he won't divorce her but will never love someone like her ever again, and makes sure that every time she begins to relax because he has been kind for awhile, he reminds her of how awful she is and he is just waiting for her to go to the grocery store and never come back because she met a man.

 

What she did was wrong.

 

What he continues to do 5 years later is pathetic, and he has no more moral high ground than she does.

 

An honorable person who cannot forgive divorces. A cruel person stays for the sole purpose of "making them pay" forever.

[drifter777]

Not sure. But I know a woman whose husband abused her and falsley accused her of cheating practically every time she went to the grocery store for years....and one time when she went on a vacation with some friends, she ended up drinking too much and slept with a guy. The first thing she did upon returning home was tearfully confess, repent, begin working on making amends, became completely transparent, and turned herself into a pretzel trying to help him heal. She took full responsibility.

 

Five years later and he is still telling her she is a slut, telling her he won't divorce her but will never love someone like her ever again, and makes sure that every time she begins to relax because he has been kind for awhile, he reminds her of how awful she is and he is just waiting for her to go to the grocery store and never come back because she met a man.

 

What she did was wrong.

 

What he continues to do 5 years later is pathetic, and he has no more moral high ground than she does.

 

An honorable person who cannot forgive divorces. A cruel person stays for the sole purpose of "making them pay" forever.

This is extreme, but I'm sure there are many, many examples of this kind of thing. I agree that a "making them pay forever" person is cruel, and the reason probably has little to do with their partners infidelity. They are just sad, angry people taking it out on someone they think is there just to take it.

[Got it]

It's wrong when betrayed spouses are shamed for reconciling. They are belittled for being a doormat, when often they are choosing to do what they believe is in their best interest. That choice is their prerogative, and it's nobody's place to judge what somebody else rightfully wants for himself or herself.

 

It wouldn't surprise me that for many BS, the best path forward for their personal health and happiness in life is to continue with their family in tact. I just finished reading Social Intelligence by Daniel Goleman. The book cited some studies that found that generally women's health is affected more by their relationships and marriages than men's. Women in particular usually are happier with more close relationships and experience more stress from their marriages. Additionally, the book evaluated the effect of relationships on a person's health and longevity. Even some toxic relationships were not as destructive to a person's health as isolation. The point is that meaningful close relationships like that between a husband and wife can be extremely valuable to a person's health and well-being and quality of life. A husband with whom a woman has built a life and children and who loves her is an invaluable asset. Particularly since nobody is perfect -- to only accept relationships with perfect people would mean a life of solitude.

 

Equally valid is the decision to kick the cheater to the curb -- that is what he or she deserves, and if the BS believes that the person is toxic and that that is what he or she wants, that is also equally his or her prerogative. However, a BS might deem that cutting off the WS would hurt the BS more than forgiving the WS would, as awfully unjust as that is. I think people out of anger want the WS to pay, but the BS shouldn't have to sacrifice what the BS does not want to to appease other people. It's an unfair situation.

 

What does irk me is that some OP on LS denigrate the BS's dignity for not immediately divorcing the WS. This hypocrisy is maddening. To the OP, the cheater in question, despite his or her clear character faults, was such a needed source of love that the OP sank to the low level of pursuing a married person, often disrupting a family with children, and stepping on innocent people to get that coveted love. That OP then talks about dignity, but the OP knows the OP is simply after a precious resource and the OP's own personal well-being.

 

Have BS on this forum who reconciled faced this kind of judgment?

Do OP on this forum judge BS for wanting to reconcile?

Do WS on this forum take advantage of being a "resource"?

 

Whatever floats your boat. Just make sure its the best decision for you and the other person is showing that they love, respect, and are honored to have you.

[affairaddict]

I wouldn't stay with a man who cheated on me. Divorced mine for lying and doing so. They never truly forget about their affair partner/s at least not for a long time and men think of other people during sex anyway and you can bet he is thinking of his affair partner a lot in the early days of D day . Eww.

 

I don't berate anyone who decides to give it another shot though and believe people make mistakes and can change.

[affairaddict]

I don't wish this I know it. And a lot of men are the same, their brains are wired to think about other women a lot. They can't have mind blowing experiences with another woman and them never recall them when having sex with their wives.

[affairaddict]

I'm not having little jabs either, and i really don't think women that men have had a relationship with become faceless and nameless that is wishful thinking.

[janedoe67]

AA, think all you want but reconciling couples will tell you it's true as will therapists....the AP becomes a situation, not a person......

 

As a fWW I can testify to this. This AP does just become an irrelevant mistake that fades in the background in comparison to a spouse when true reconciliation takes place.

[KathyM]

I'm not having little jabs either, and i really don't think women that men have had a relationship with become faceless and nameless that is wishful thinking.

I think it depends on the situation. Some men who are only in the affair for some extra sex probably would just as easily forget the person involved in the affair with them. I know of some men IRL who that was very much the case--they were only in the affair for the extra sex, and as soon as the affair was over, they readily put that person out of their mind. For men who developed real feelings for the AP, they would probably be likely to hold onto the image of her for some time after the affair ended. The men I know IRL who had cheated were only in it for the sex, not for the relationship.

[janedoe67]

I thought I had feelings for the OM during the A. But the longer into recovery my husband and I were, the more I realized I was comparing bologna to steak, so to speak. My husband was the steak. I mean, in the end, who was the OM really? A man who would easily jump into bed with a woman who already had a husband. He broke the moral code, the "bro code," and the honor code. Why in the world would I want to keep HIM in my head?

[William]

Let's keep the discussion focused on betrayed spouses who are choosing to reconcile and refrain from injecting other scenarios into the discussion, as well as from making editorial comments about/to other members. Thanks.

[affairaddict]

.

Yes of course they probably fade to almost nothing the memories of AP and they don't think of the affair anymore. If its over and they realise they've made a mistake and realise what they could have lost, Or there's a D day and they came to their senses.

 

Some people stay in emotional affairs for years! We aren't just talking about purely sexual affairs. Years of emotional ties are hard to break. Yes maybe they love the wife and prefer her but they have feelings and head space and sexual thoughts of their AP during they are greedy.

 

Do you ever wonder . If there was no D day if your SO would still be in this affair or how long it would have gone on for?

[Betterthanthis13]

I think any BS that is in R because they genuinely want to be, and is making the decision to be in R based on a rational analysis of their own personal situaltion, is NOT a doormat.

 

Any BS that has a WS with a terrible a pathology as mine (they don't get much worse) and wants to R, is delusional, maybe... Wasting time, yeah, but a doormat? Still no.

 

Only a doormat if you know beyond a reasonable doubt that R is simply a joke to the WS and you are forcing it anyway. Even then I wouldn't call a BS a doormat. I would call him or her someone that needs some compassion and some help. Not to be called nasty names.

[Journee]

This is what I have a problem with. BSs are not subhuman and undeserving of love. Not place holders for true love. We can be and are loved greatly by our spouses. If aaffairs are not the same and all AP are not the same then don't assume all marriages and participants are the same.

 

APs can go through countless deadlines coming and going ,MPs missing major life/ heath events , lies the AP tells to "protect" them and on and on. Yet the AP stays by the side of the wayward even after DDays. BS are expected to see that the wayward is filthy and no good. That there is nothing redeemable or worthy about the WS. They should accept that the wayward will never love them fully. That they are second class citizens in their own marriage. The BS just isn't good enough. Please.

 

Honestly, I don't live my life for a group of strangers IRL. I'm mos def not going to online. I don't have to like affairs and OW/OM don't have to like reconciliation. Doesn't affect the progress of my growth or that of my husband's.

 

Anyone can be betrayed. It isn't limited to those who have a marriage license.

[HopingAgain]

This is what I have a problem with. BSs are not subhuman and undeserving of love. Not place holders for true love. We can be and are loved greatly by our spouses. If aaffairs are not the same and all AP are not the same then don't assume all marriages and participants are the same.

 

APs can go through countless deadlines coming and going ,MPs missing major life/ heath events , lies the AP tells to "protect" them and on and on. Yet the AP stays by the side of the wayward even after DDays. BS are expected to see that the wayward is filthy and no good. That there is nothing redeemable or worthy about the WS. They should accept that the wayward will never love them fully. That they are second class citizens in their own marriage. The BS just isn't good enough. Please.

 

Honestly, I don't live my life for a group of strangers IRL. I'm mos def not going to online. I don't have to like affairs and OW/OM don't have to like reconciliation. Doesn't affect the progress of my growth or that of my husband's.

 

Anyone can be betrayed. It isn't limited to those

who have a marriage license.

 

 

A-friggin-men

[HopingAgain]

I don't know why or how anyone can call a BS that stays in a marriage a doormat. It takes Herculean strength to be able to heal after being betrayed, much less attempting to repair a marriage with the very person who betrayed you! Leaving is the easy way out, staying is what's hard because its a further gamble.

[road]

I don't know why or how anyone can call a BS that stays in a marriage a doormat. It takes Herculean strength to be able to heal after being betrayed, much less attempting to repair a marriage with the very person who betrayed you! Leaving is the easy way out, staying is what's hard because its a further gamble.

 

 

Sometimes the BS is a doormat.

 

Sometimes the BS is not.

 

What does matter whether the BS divorces or recovers is that which ever choice the BS makes is the choice they want.

 

To what other's think whether for or against the BS decision to recover they can take a flying jump on a rolling doughnut.

[dichotomy]

.

Yes of course they probably fade to almost nothing the memories of AP and they don't think of the affair anymore. If its over and they realise they've made a mistake and realise what they could have lost, Or there's a D day and they came to their senses.

 

Some people stay in emotional affairs for years! We aren't just talking about purely sexual affairs. Years of emotional ties are hard to break. Yes maybe they love the wife and prefer her but they have feelings and head space and sexual thoughts of their AP during they are greedy.

 

Do you ever wonder . If there was no D day if your SO would still be in this affair or how long it would have gone on for?

 

 

This has been a central question in my wife's EA, and one that bothers me greatly. But it didn't... and it came all out within 2 months of us being married. Which was part of my personal choice not to end things.

[Eggplant]

I wouldn't stay with a man who cheated on me. Divorced mine for lying and doing so. They never truly forget about their affair partner/s at least not for a long time and men think of other people during sex anyway and you can bet he is thinking of his affair partner a lot in the early days of D day . Eww.

 

I don't berate anyone who decides to give it another shot though and believe people make mistakes and can change.

 

I hope that I have the strength to choose to be alone, rather than be with a person who took advantage of me and treated me poorly. However, I cannot help but notice, depressed, that you who had the courage to kick your lying cheating husband to the curb still didn't have the courage to be alone in dignity, as you then chose to be a mistress. Part of my thinking is that being alone in dignity is easier said than done. As humans we naturally crave relationships.

[Spark1111]

I think the OW, OM denigrate the BS because they have either been LED to believe the marriage stinks by the WS, so they PROJECT their emotions onto the marriage and think, Sheesh, who would want to hold onto that crappy, cold, loveless void of a relationship.

 

And it is often untrue OR sour grapes and dissolves their role as the loving rescuer of sad, sorry AP.....which is a very important part of the triangle.

 

Projection is also a huge part of the advice of many family and friends whose knee jerk reaction is to kick the WS to the curb because that is what they think they would do.

 

Reconciling a marriage after infidelity takes more courage, grit, and hard work than anything I have ever attempted previously.

 

It also takes two, and if my H was unwilling to change many, many poor coping skills and introspect and invest in me, us.....suffice it to say I had a suitcase packed, separate funds and a divorce attorney on speed dial.

[HopingAgain]

I just got attacked on my own post for posting about starting to become happy in reconciliation with my husband, but it was by a frustrated OW...so it does happen that couples in reconciliation are berated for their choice to do so.

[HopingAgain]

I

 

Don't worry about it. People can get bitter and lash out at you out of their own pain. At least that's what I tell myself *shrug*.

 

 

 

 

 

Our divorce is still pending (on hold), I refuse to withdraw it from the court until I'm 100% certain I want to stay in the M. (it's been 2 years) ha ha! My attorney calls me every 3 or 4 months just to see if he needs to do anything. He's still on retainer.

 

Wow! I love it, that is actually a great insurance for yourself, and it also sends your husband a clear message that you mean business!

[ladydesigner]

Yes it does. The message being:

 

I'm here because I want to be here, when I don't want to be here anymore I'll be gone.

 

Of course there's always the:

 

Anytime you think the grass might be greener you are free to go find out...don't look back because I won't.

 

 

Can I just say how much I love this you rock beenkilled!