Determining "The Friend Zone"

[irc333]

I was wondering, there's this woman who had just gotten out of a long relationship/engagement and had told me she's not ready for any kind of relationship because of the emotional baggage she's carrying....and wanted me to assure her if it's okay that we "JUST be friends?"

 

And I am thinking you mean "Friends for now and if something happens, something later may occur"?

 

I just hear how men will "go along" with "Okay, I'll be friends with you" just so he can be around here.

 

But in this case, since she's reeling from an engagement she just cut off, is she putting me in the Friendzone?

 

I guess it's good she won't be rebounding, but....on the other hand, I don't want to be friendzoned either.

[Mr_Flay]

"Friendzone" doesn't exist. She's either not attracted to you, or just mildly attracted to you and honest enough not to string you along while she's reeling from her break-up. If you're fine with being just friends with her for eternity, by all means, an extra friend is a good thing to have. Just don't become an "orbiter" and forever hope that she'll change her mind. If you continue seeing her, you must abandon all hope that you two will become lovers and be okay with it; that's the best way to go about it IMO.

[irc333]

"Friendzone" doesn't exist. She's either not attracted to you, or just mildly attracted to you and honest enough not to string you along while she's reeling from her break-up. If you're fine with being just friends with her for eternity, by all means, an extra friend is a good thing to have. Just don't become an "orbiter" and forever hope that she'll change her mind. If you continue seeing her, you must abandon all hope that you two will become lovers and be okay with it; that's the best way to go about it IMO.

 

So it's either be a rebound fling with her or be friendzoned.

 

So you're saying EVEN though she's getting over her engagement...I'll still be in the FZ?

[Mr_Flay]

So it's either be a rebound fling with her or be friendzoned.

 

So you're saying EVEN though she's getting over her engagement...I'll still be in the FZ?

 

I'm saying that if you're not all that into her and are content with just friendship, it's a good option. If you have too great of a crush on her, then move on and stop seeing her, otherwise the constant thinking and her wishy-washiness will drive you mad, trust me. Only continue being friends with her if you're able to perceive as an unattractive or asexual person. 'Cause that's how she views you, if I'm not mistaken. If she were truly head-over-heels for you, she'd forget all about that emotional baggage nonsense in an instant.

[irc333]

I'm saying that if you're not all that into her and are content with just friendship, it's a good option. If you have too great of a crush on her, then move on and stop seeing her, otherwise the constant thinking and her wishy-washiness will drive you mad, trust me. Only continue being friends with her if you're able to perceive as an unattractive or asexual person. 'Cause that's how she views you, if I'm not mistaken. If she were truly head-over-heels for you, she'd forget all about that emotional baggage nonsense in an instant.

 

What I'm thinking is....for a long time, women had made me felt bad about being "just buddies' with them by saying "there's something wrong with you if you can't be friends with women"

 

But I gav eup that concepta long while ago.

 

One woman ..recently got on my case (apparently she's a social worker and has a psychology degree) and said I had issues...and my ability to not be "just friends" with HER....means I have issues or would have issues with women in general and even in future relationships (even romantic ones).

[Lansing]

The reality is if you are a cool, interesting guy there is. I reason why her attraction for you can't increase over time. The issue is that most guys will treat the girl as a quasi girlfriend where she gets all of the benefits of being the "GF" while the guy is left thinking "why doesn't she like me as a bf"?

 

I have had more than one experience where I have been friends with girls and just been normal around them and the have later admitted to have "feelings" for me. In two of those cases even though I was originally attracted to them and felt like timing was not right, by the time I got to know them more I realized I didn't want to get into a relationship with them. Third girl I had such a connection with but she was in a relationship and it wasnt until after she broke up with her bf that we started dating ( and, in that situation I would have been better off it dating her because of the rebound thing)

 

My advise is that if you are not a guy with options and you will constantly be thinking about this girl is move on. If you feel like you will always be wondering " does she like me" than move on. If you are dating other girls still then bring this one into your social circle and just don't expect anything to happen. Bottom line is the whole " once a friend, always a friend" is BS but for most guys it is a reality because they act or are losers around the girl and when the girl gets to know that she doesn't become more attractive.

[nescafe1982]

The term "friend-zone" conveys a real misunderstanding of how human relationships work. I'm not accusing you of harboring this misunderstanding, OP, but you might be best off discarding the concept forever. There is no such thing as a "friend-zone," and people who rely on the term to describe why they did not succeed with someone romantically are usually misguided or immature.

 

That said, if this woman has offered you friendship, you have two options: take it, or walk away. If she's not ready for a relationship, putting pressure on her is not a good thing to do.... and "orbiting" her with intentions beyond/besides friendship comes off as predatory. I'm usually quick to dismiss men who orbit; other women who thrive on male attention might continue to let you orbit but they will never start a relationship with an "orbiter." At most, they will sleep with you, ONCE, in a moment of weakness... but do you really want to be the guy who is waiting for a woman to feel weak and then take advantage? On the other hand, do you really want to be the guy who is used, once, for emotional fulfillment and then shamefully discarded? (Hint: if the answer is "yes" to either of these questions, you might not be ready for relationships at all).

 

But in the end, it's simple. She has told you what she can offer. If it's too weird for you to be a friend (truly a friend, not an opportunistic "orbiter") then I would suggest establishing some distance until you have another love-interest. After all, if you develop another relationship with a woman who is truly interested an ready for you, then you might then be ready for a real friendship with this first woman.

 

Best of luck out there, and for the love of God, forget about the "friend-zone" and take what women tell you at face value a bit more.

Edited July 24, 2013 by nescafe1982

[CptSaveAho]

 

Best of luck out there, and for the love of God, forget about the "friend-zone" and take what women tell you at face value a bit more.

 

if you ever want to be truly successful in the dating world, dont EVER do this

 

As for the original post, never date a girl fresh out of any type of long term relationship and move on if you want one thing and she doesnt.

[mammasita]

You've been friend-zoned. Speaking from experience, fresh out of a relationship and not ready to date is a common excuse that I use. If I were in her shoes and fresh from break up but still interested, I would say "lets take it slow" not "lets just be friends".

[RedRobin]

If I were in her shoes and fresh from break up but still interested, I would say "lets take it slow" not "lets just be friends".

 

Except that these days, 'let's take it slow' means the guy expects sex in three weeks instead of two...

 

Women who genuinely need to get to know someone OR really are recovering from a break up know better than to say that. I know I do.

 

As a result, I don't tell any new man I meet that I'm open to dating. Ever. No matter how interesting he might appear. At least not in the area I currently live.

[Kizza]

what mammasita said.... exactly.

 

friendzones exist!

 

trust me they do!

 

if a woman is attracted to you she will go it. no matter what. women have excuses too and if she is just not that in to you she will use them.

[nescafe1982]

if you ever want to be truly successful in the dating world, dont EVER do this

 

To the contrary. I think there are a lot of men who need to do precisely this: to quit trying to play games and take women at their word.

 

But there are just as many women who need to learn to say what they need and want from a man, or from a relationship too.

 

Our relationships are only as good as our ability to both communicate effectively and demands same from our mates. If a man takes a woman's "I'm not interested" cues at face value, ceases his pursuit, and only after that the woman expresses interest, what kind of relationship is being set up there?

 

It's about letting people who aren't up to a healthy degree of communication to select themselves out of the pool of candidates.

 

In other words: no means no. But the good news? Yes also means yes.

[irc333]

It really takes two, sometimes.

 

I have a female friend of mine that apparently carpooled with a male friend to a camp out with other friends. He was hauling a 5th Wheel camper....and when they set up camp, they slept in different parts of the camper.

 

He was wanting to come out at the end of the weekend with a new girlfriend as his goal.

 

During the event among the friends around the camp fire, he started to get "close" with her by calling her "honey", touching her on the arm, and so on.

 

He started to get possessive when other men would try to flirt with her and she would be flirting back.

 

Not the bad kind of possessiveness, but more so the "She's with me" possessiveness. He was already acknowledging that they were "together" for the event.

 

When they were driving home, he asked her to be his girlfriend..and she said he's a great guy, but only could think of him as a friend.

 

There he went and wasted his entire weekend on something that was never going to happen. Was his fault for having such an expectation, and not lettin git be known from the GET GO....but I didn't understand why she had to sleep in the same quarters as him?

 

She tends to do things with men that would indicate they're dating, even fool every one looking, but not actually feel they were "together".

 

 

 

 

 

 

if you ever want to be truly successful in the dating world, dont EVER do this

 

As for the original post, never date a girl fresh out of any type of long term relationship and move on if you want one thing and she doesnt.

[irc333]

At least not in the area I currently live.

 

Why would it make any difference where you live??

[New User]

The friendzone only exists if you're dumb enough to stay friends with someone that you want more from- this is never a good idea. She doesn't feel the same way and sticking around in the hope that she will change her mind at some point is kinda pathetic.

 

I would have told her something to the effect of "I'm sorry, but I'm very attracted to you and I don't feel like spending time with you as only friends would be good for me. Call me if you change your mind."

[nescafe1982]

It really takes two, sometimes.

 

I have a female friend of mine that apparently carpooled with a male friend to a camp out with other friends. He was hauling a 5th Wheel camper....and when they set up camp, they slept in different parts of the camper.

 

He was wanting to come out at the end of the weekend with a new girlfriend as his goal.

 

During the event among the friends around the camp fire, he started to get "close" with her by calling her "honey", touching her on the arm, and so on.

 

He started to get possessive when other men would try to flirt with her and she would be flirting back.

 

Not the bad kind of possessiveness, but more so the "She's with me" possessiveness. He was already acknowledging that they were "together" for the event.

 

When they were driving home, he asked her to be his girlfriend..and she said he's a great guy, but only could think of him as a friend.

 

There he went and wasted his entire weekend on something that was never going to happen. Was his fault for having such an expectation, and not lettin git be known from the GET GO....but I didn't understand why she had to sleep in the same quarters as him?

 

She tends to do things with men that would indicate they're dating, even fool every one looking, but not actually feel they were "together".

 

This is instructive. Consider the following:

 

1) This guy was clearly pursuing this girl, which is fine, but I don't see much of a case for her giving him any signals of interest here. She was on a group camping trip and staying in a separate part of the camper. She also flirted with other guys in front of him, a pretty clear signal of disinterest in your friend. Where's the come-on?

 

2) He was "out for a girlfriend" that night which means he likes her hopefully. He spent a weekend with a girl he likes: awesome! So why/how was that time "wasted" simply because he wasn't successful in making her his GF?

 

It's not that this guy was "friendzoned." It's that he pursued a woman and she wasn't interested. It's not indictment of either him or her... but to call it "friend-zoning" is to imply that she did something wrong. Hell, it's to imply she did anything at all... which she didn't.

 

Look from her perspective: she's on a group camping trip with friends, and her bunkmate is getting a little flirty. She's not interested, so she establishes some distance and starts flirting with other people to head him off at the pass. He then goes for it, and she has to reject him... which she does as politely as possible by saying "we're friends. That's all."

 

The idea that she did anything incorrectly comes mostly from the presumptions of her suitor: she was a "goal," not a free-thinking person who has every right to accept/reject his advances. In this case, his expectations, and not her actions, led to the rejection. But a rejection is not a "failure," nor does it mean he "wasted his time." If she were a goal, value free and lacking her own needs/desires, THEN not getting her would be a "failure." But because she is a person, the verdict is much simpler: she doesn't want a relationship with him so she offer friendship. If friendship is unacceptable or wasted effort to him, then that reflects poorly on him and his values.

 

Instead of talking about being "friendzoned" he could just man-up and say "Yeah, I asked her out. She wasn't interested. Well, on to the next! Ladies..."

[white]

to call it "friend-zoning" is to imply that she did something wrong. Hell, it's to imply she did anything at all... which she didn't.

 

Actually I've always taken it to imply the guy did something wrong.

[nescafe1982]

Actually I've always taken it to imply the guy did something wrong.

 

That's an interesting point too... it is often invoked in the sense of a man who "fails" to catch a woman: "aw, dude, you've been friendzoned, bro! You shoulda played hard to get," etc etc.

 

That's equally problematic in my view. Because dating is not about a man putting in his "good guy" credits until a female accepts him. And a woman saying she's not interested in a guy "like that" should not be seen as a man's failure. Instead, it's just about a lack of reciprocal interest.

 

A guy can do nothing wrong and still be rejected up and down by woman after woman. What makes a guy a real man is his ability to take those rejections on the chin and move on without taking it personally, calling it a failure, or accusing a women of "friendzoning" him.

 

Plus, the word itself implies that a woman's friendship is completely without value. Which is a big part of the reason I hate it so much.

[white]

the word itself implies that a woman's friendship is completely without value. Which is a big part of the reason I hate it so much.

 

Me too. I've been pretty pleased to still call women who rejected my interest friends afterwards, when it happens. Surely the point was always that I wish to know them and be around them. And while it's rare in my life, I can enjoy a friendship with women I myself rejected. It makes things comfortable. No hidden undercurrents.

[irc333]

That's equally problematic in my view. Because dating is not about a man putting in his "good guy" credits until a female accepts him. And a woman saying she's not interested in a guy "like that" should not be seen as a man's failure. Instead, it's just about a lack of reciprocal interest.

 

Good points...seems these so called "experts" that post in message boards saying "Oh, you must've done something that did not CREATE attraction"

 

Like it's up to us to some how "will" women to like us.

 

The attraction is either there or it isn't.

 

Me too. I've been pretty pleased to still call women who rejected my interest friends afterwards, when it happens. Surely the point was always that I wish to know them and be around them. And while it's rare in my life, I can enjoy a friendship with women I myself rejected. It makes things comfortable. No hidden undercurrents

 

Right and I have a couple of real good female friends as well that I have managed to not have issues being friends with. But there DOES come a time where the emotion or there would be just SOME woman that I couldn't think of as just a friend...but wants something more....at that point, I keep it at an acquaintance level.

 

Some women say they want to be friends, but it's just another form of rejection and they actually do not want to be friends at all nor want you in their life. Believe me, I've attempted to be friends with some women, only to be ignored...EVEN as a friend. They just said it to get me off their back.

Edited July 24, 2013 by irc333

[white]

Right and I have a couple of real good female friends as well that I have managed to not have issues being friends with. But there DOES come a time where the emotion or there would be just SOME woman that I couldn't think of as just a friend...but wants something more....at that point, I keep it at an acquaintance level.

 

Some women say they want to be friends, but it's just another form of rejection and they actually do not want to be friends at all nor want you in their life. Believe me, I've attempted to be friends with some women, only to be ignored...EVEN as a friend. They just said it to get me off their back.

 

Certainly. It depends on the relationship dynamic. I've only ever dated or tried to date women I already knew, personally. No online dating, no blind dates etc. For the most part we have already been friends, or at least friendly, beforehand. I've never had a problem sucking up a rejection and laughing about it. Why would I push them away after I strike out? It's not like their mere presence gives me an uncontrollable and uncomfortable boner and I must keep away from them lest my pants chafe awfully and I develop a permanent bowlegged walk.

[RedRobin]

Why would it make any difference where you live??

 

This is a company town, and the region is historically depressed economically.... with associated social issues that go along with that.

 

The available men reflect the multi-generational issues that accompany many factory towns and economically depressed areas... Lets just put it that way.

[RedRobin]

friendzone for women is the same as friends with benefits for men...I like you enough to f*** you/vent to you but not enough to date you

 

Not really.... being someone's friend won't give you STDs or get you pregnant.

[GoodOnPaper]

A guy can do nothing wrong and still be rejected up and down by woman after woman. What makes a guy a real man is his ability to take those rejections on the chin and move on without taking it personally, calling it a failure, or accusing a women of "friendzoning" him.

 

Plus, the word itself implies that a woman's friendship is completely without value. Which is a big part of the reason I hate it so much.

 

In most cases, a single man meets and starts to get to know a single woman with the intention of dating her. An offer of friendship - meaning the kind where you regularly get together 1-on-1 - that accompanies dating rejection doesn't have much value because no foundation for a friendship has been established yet. That's what is offensive. I'm not particularly motivated to become BFFs with someone when I don't know much about her other than she views me as asexual. We really should call those cases "acquaintance-zoning".

 

In cases where there is already a foundation for friendship, maybe it can work or maybe the guy feels the levels of emotional exposure are just too uneven for a deep friendship to form.

[Revolver]

We can end this whole FZ thing right now If guys stop associating with women who turn them down