soconfused541 Posted July 21, 2013 Posted July 21, 2013 My hysband and I got married in 2005, in 2006 when I was pregnant with our son my husband left me and got in to drugs...other woman...and partying. He stole my credit card and took another girl shopping, he threatened my family, and got engaged to another girl. After 11 months of me waiting faithfully, he came back. I caught him in lies about everything from what he ate for breakfast to who he was talking to on the phone. I tried so hard to forgive him for everything and we had many ups and downs but for the past 6 years I have been very unaffectionate to hime and have built up so much anger. About 3 months ago I told him I was not able to get over the past and was thinking of leaving him....he asked me to please try counseling first to see if I could get help letting go so I started. Two weeks later me and our kids went out of town and I caught him lying to me about where he was staying. I warned him that if I caught him lying again I was leaving him and he promised he wouldn't. I found out he stayed the night at his ex girlfriends , supposedly with her bro, so I kicked him out. Its been 2 months and he has been trying every day to come home. I do see a lortod improvements and I miss our family but I just don't feel like I could ever get over all the lies. Should I just let it go or is it worth another try?
Eve Posted July 21, 2013 Posted July 21, 2013 I would have divorced him in 2006, then worked on myself to ensure I pick up on cues which highlight inadequacy. Yes, words and actions really are the sum total of a persons character. Believe what you are seeing and get on with your own life. .. but be honest, this level of behaviour could be suitable for you. You may not be able to manage a healthy relationship. Find someone to talk things through on your own. Lay everything on the table before making a decison. Take care, Eve x 2
oldshirt Posted July 21, 2013 Posted July 21, 2013 at no other time and place in human history have women had as much free choice in choosing their own mates as right here right now. Are you seriously telling us that you are trying to decide whether to choose with a man who chronically and continually lies, cheats, steals, threatens family members and is just basically not a good person. The fundamental issue here isn't whether he is worthy to be a mate or not, that is a slam-dunk no. the real issue and dysfunction here is why are you putting up with it and accepting it. Your threats of "next time" have no meaning because the 'next time' always come and you still accept it. Words have no meaning and no value, only actions and behaviors have meaning and value. Your words of, "next time it happens, we're done!" have no meaning or value because the next time he does it, you DO nothing. His words o, "I won't do it again." have no meaning or value because he does it again each and every time. a relationship is in it's actions not it's words. You each tell each other that you are in a relationship but you are not, it is only words. and it is only going to be words because you are not doing anything that people in relationships do. It's time for you to DO something and that something is to vow to not say another word and to only take action. The only actions that even remotely make any sense is get a lawyer and end this diasterous façade of marriage and start over. It's time to hit the 'reset' button on your life and this time the new soconfused 2.0 needs to stop listening to what people say and start watching what they do and judge people's worth by their actions and behaviors and not their words. 1
Author soconfused541 Posted July 21, 2013 Author Posted July 21, 2013 First I have to say that he never technically cheated, he told me he wanted a divorce and wanted to see other people before he did it. But yes I know it still isn't right. The hard part is that we have 3 kids who adore him and blame me for him not living here anymore. Also I am seeing a counselor for these issues but just wanted the opinions of others as well. He has admitted now that he is a chronic liar and has now started seeing a counselor as well.
oldshirt Posted July 21, 2013 Posted July 21, 2013 , in 2006 when I was pregnant with our son my husband left me and got in to drugs...other woman...and partying. He stole my credit card and took another girl shopping, he threatened my family, and got engaged to another girl. . I caught him in lies about everything from what he ate for breakfast to who he was talking to on the phone. Two weeks later me and our kids went out of town and I caught him lying to me about where he was staying. I found out he stayed the night at his ex girlfriends Oh I am sorry, not sure how I could have thought that this all pointed to him being with other women.
oldshirt Posted July 21, 2013 Posted July 21, 2013 He has admitted now that he is a chronic liar and has now started seeing a counselor as well. Doing drugs, credit card theft, threatening people, cheating, and chronic lying are all indicators of bad character. Bad character can not be "cured" and it doesn't go away because someone walks into a counselors office. Counseling does not cure or eradicate bad behaviors and it doesn't change people's fundamental character. The best a counselor can hope to do is to point out how bad behavior hurts other people and how it can have a bad effect on the perpetuators life. and the counselor can offer some positive behaviors that that person can use instead. It rarely if ever works You husband is a bad person and has serious character flaws that can not be treated or cured or controlled by any other person. He is who and what he is. Counselors cant change that. The best that you can hope for is that a real good counselor can point out how his bad behavior is harming his family and negatively impacting his own life and with that information he puts in the time, energy and effort into changing his core belief systems and changing his own behavior patterns. The catch is in order to do that he at least has to have a little bit of conscience and character to begin with. It's very questionable whether he can change or if he even wants to. So far he hasnt' had to change anything because all he has to do is tell you that he is going to change and tell you that he won't do it again and then no real consequences happen when he does do it again.
oldshirt Posted July 21, 2013 Posted July 21, 2013 First I have to say that he never technically cheated, he told me he wanted a divorce and wanted to see other people before he did it. So if my wife were to come tonight and say she wants a divorce and wants to start seeing other people, I'm supposed to let her back in the house scot-free like nothing ever happened when she shows back up one night after screwing a bunch of other dudes? Dang, I hope she doesn't discover that little loophole:eek:
oldshirt Posted July 21, 2013 Posted July 21, 2013 I'm really not trying to be a sarcastic a$$ here but rather to jolt you into realizing how ridiculous you are being. The issue that is holding you back here is your own lack of boundaries and personal fortitude. You are allowing yourself to be abused and manipulated by a someone who is simply a bad person and a bad mate. You can't change him and you can't control him and you can't turn him into a decent person. The only thing you can do is draw a line in the sand and take charge of your own life and do the right things yourself.
TaraMaiden Posted July 21, 2013 Posted July 21, 2013 soconfused541 oldshirt is spot-on - he isn't the problem. YOU are. And quite frankly, when you see your counsellor, forget discussing the relationship. Discuss instead how you can cultivate self-respect, self-esteem, integrity, and the strength to ditch this guy, who doubtless will go through all the motions of counselling, if only to keep you well and truly tied to his bootlace.
Eve Posted July 21, 2013 Posted July 21, 2013 First I have to say that he never technically cheated, he told me he wanted a divorce and wanted to see other people before he did it. But yes I know it still isn't right. The hard part is that we have 3 kids who adore him and blame me for him not living here anymore. Also I am seeing a counselor for these issues but just wanted the opinions of others as well. He has admitted now that he is a chronic liar and has now started seeing a counselor as well. Why are the children blaming you? H'mmm.. they may be modelling his behaviour by acting out to keep you tied up. Be careful because they may have a more troubled time during their teen years than what is deemed 'normal' if boundaries are not modelled effectively during their formative years. If the foundation is not there now you may lose them to peers and other influences altogether. Does this man contribute to their upkeep? Is he your first love? Take care, Eve x
Author soconfused541 Posted July 22, 2013 Author Posted July 22, 2013 Wow you all are very rude and hurtfull. For one thing... he doesn't even know that I am even thinking about taking him back. He has been out of the house ever since and only comes to pick up or drop off kids. He does still pay all my bills and financially support me and the kids but as far as he knows we are completely done. I have already filled out the divorce papers but had some friends and family comment that marriage is for better or for worse and that I shouldn't walk away so I just wanted some unbias opinions. There is no reason to insult me thanks
So happy together Posted July 22, 2013 Posted July 22, 2013 Wow you all are very rude and hurtfull. For one thing... he doesn't even know that I am even thinking about taking him back. He has been out of the house ever since and only comes to pick up or drop off kids. He does still pay all my bills and financially support me and the kids but as far as he knows we are completely done. I have already filled out the divorce papers but had some friends and family comment that marriage is for better or for worse and that I shouldn't walk away so I just wanted some unbias opinions. There is no reason to insult me thanks I'm sorry you're going through this. I'm a little appalled at the responses myself. Most of the people here have been cheated on and are trying to reconcile. I guess forgiveness is nowhere here. However, I will say, if it has been years and years of this behavior, it's not likely to change. I know that my boyfriend stayed in his marriage for many years when he really should have left. His stbx is an alcoholic and he suffered a lot. It took our relationship to give him the courage to leave. So, I will say this: You've kicked him out. It is my humble opinion that you keep it that way. Seek a therapist, discuss yourself, how you can be strong, how you can be there for your kids, how you can make sure you take care of you. YOU are what matters right now. Hang in there. Keep your chin up, know that his behavior at the least was sh*tty and could be considered abusive. You don't want your children to grow up thinking that is normal behavior. I hope you are okay. Chin up. 1
Lauriebell82 Posted July 22, 2013 Posted July 22, 2013 Wow you all are very rude and hurtfull. For one thing... he doesn't even know that I am even thinking about taking him back. He has been out of the house ever since and only comes to pick up or drop off kids. He does still pay all my bills and financially support me and the kids but as far as he knows we are completely done. I have already filled out the divorce papers but had some friends and family comment that marriage is for better or for worse and that I shouldn't walk away so I just wanted some unbias opinions. There is no reason to insult me thanks You are going to hear some things you don't want to hear on loveshack. Some advice is helpful, some of it hurts. You need to take what you feel is best and go from there. Anyway... Does he want to change his behavior and stop hurting you? Because it sounds like he wants to work on the relationship, but not change any of the behavior. I believe people can change IF THEY WANT TO. Sounds like your husband wants to have his cake and eat it to. If that is the case and you cannot live with his behavior anymore, then by all means file for divorce. If he is willing to change and actually acknowledge that he hurts you, then give it another chance. But you will have to work on your reactions to him. Do YOU think he can change? 1
Eve Posted July 22, 2013 Posted July 22, 2013 Wow you all are very rude and hurtfull. For one thing... he doesn't even know that I am even thinking about taking him back. He has been out of the house ever since and only comes to pick up or drop off kids. He does still pay all my bills and financially support me and the kids but as far as he knows we are completely done. I have already filled out the divorce papers but had some friends and family comment that marriage is for better or for worse and that I shouldn't walk away so I just wanted some unbias opinions. There is no reason to insult me thanks Nah, the responses are based on the high level of minimising that you are doing. Maybe you are too used to the drama to even notice or consider it harmful to return? That is the real issue you need to consider, whether you go back to this man or not. If you don't you could end up in the same postion with a new man or the current Husband. We can only work on ourselves. If he is going to change he will do because he wants to. There is no structure holding you to do this within matrimony. Matrimony should only be honoured with acts of love. Unless of course there is some underlying belief that a woman should be a long suffering martyr to prove love? You need to figure out where this stems from. Glad you are in therapy. Do the other women in your life also have spouses who behave in similar ways? Take care, Eve x 1
Author soconfused541 Posted July 22, 2013 Author Posted July 22, 2013 He says he realizes now how much he was hurting me and our family with his lies. He says he is working on stopping his lies and has confessed to me some lies that I didn't know about. He is a medical marijuana card holder and would smoke (not in my home) all day and has almost completely quit, which is something I had been asking him to do. He spends more time with our kids now than he did when he lived here. He has started working on building his credit which he never cared about before. He has told me repeatedly that he now appreciates everything that I did for him and our family and that he never wants to hurt me again. I know that he loves me.....but I just don't know that he is capable of changing. His father is the same way. Also...no...the woman in my family do not get treated badily. And I was raised my my father who adores his wife of 30 years
Lauriebell82 Posted July 22, 2013 Posted July 22, 2013 He says he realizes now how much he was hurting me and our family with his lies. He says he is working on stopping his lies and has confessed to me some lies that I didn't know about. He is a medical marijuana card holder and would smoke (not in my home) all day and has almost completely quit, which is something I had been asking him to do. He spends more time with our kids now than he did when he lived here. He has started working on building his credit which he never cared about before. He has told me repeatedly that he now appreciates everything that I did for him and our family and that he never wants to hurt me again. I know that he loves me.....but I just don't know that he is capable of changing. His father is the same way. Also...no...the woman in my family do not get treated badily. And I was raised my my father who adores his wife of 30 years Okay, that's a start. If I were you I would give him a deadline, like 6 months to really show you he has taken steps to improve. And he needs to PROVE IT. Which means following through with promises, picking up/dropping off kids when he says he is going to. Not dating other women. He needs to fight to get you back! 1
CarrieT Posted July 22, 2013 Posted July 22, 2013 He says he realizes now how much he was hurting me and our family with his lies. He says he is working on stopping his lies and has confessed to me some lies that I didn't know about. He is a medical marijuana card holder and would smoke (not in my home) all day and has almost completely quit, which is something I had been asking him to do. He spends more time with our kids now than he did when he lived here. He has started working on building his credit which he never cared about before. He has told me repeatedly that he now appreciates everything that I did for him and our family and that he never wants to hurt me again. Look for actions, not words. You said he has been working on his credit, "almost quit" marijuana (why not entirely?), and is spending more time with your kids. How long has this transformation been going on? I would hold out for 12 to 24 months of consistent action before reconciliation. He can talk-the-talk until he is blue in the fact - he needs to walk-the-walk a LONG time before he has earned a place back in your life. 2
Eve Posted July 22, 2013 Posted July 22, 2013 He says he realizes now how much he was hurting me and our family with his lies. He says he is working on stopping his lies and has confessed to me some lies that I didn't know about. He is a medical marijuana card holder and would smoke (not in my home) all day and has almost completely quit, which is something I had been asking him to do. He spends more time with our kids now than he did when he lived here. He has started working on building his credit which he never cared about before. He has told me repeatedly that he now appreciates everything that I did for him and our family and that he never wants to hurt me again. I know that he loves me.....but I just don't know that he is capable of changing. His father is the same way. Also...no...the woman in my family do not get treated badily. And I was raised my my father who adores his wife of 30 years Those are all good signs. The crunch really is how you are able to reconcile his past behaviour without letting him so close that it could actually all just begin again. Personally I don't believe this is for you to do or focus on right now. Rather I see it as a matter off seeing how long this current change lasts before you can even begin to contemplate such a thing. By the sounds of your heart you would respond with forgiveness if he was able to prove to you that he has changed. Just make sure that attempts at rebonding is not his cue to restart the poor behaviour. If in the past, once he has secured your heart, he then bruises it again you MUST be careful as this can eventually affect your physical and mental health. All and all it sounds like this is a learned behaviour from having a poor male role model in his dad. However it is important for you to know your limits because the children need you. Regardless of the positive changes between himself and the children, you are the lead parent because this is how is has been for the greater part off their lives. The parent who messes around is always regarded with greater want by children because they are not as attainable. Be careful that this does not develop any further within their hearts. If you can, please see if they can have someone to talk to too. Depending on their age, sometimes this can be arranged in school in the form of play therapy - sorry not sure how old they are. Otherwise they too may play out this pattern when they are older. Children are like sponges. Definitely keep keeping their environment free from emotional conflict as much as possible. My immediate thought is that your Husband will have a marker of time set within himself regarding how long he feels you will hold out. I think the only way to truly test him is to go beyond this time frame and to fully commit yourself to developing yourself in this time. This way you will have boundaries which will protect you whatever the outcome. Right now you are safe, it may not be so easy to get him to leave next time, especially as the children are pining for their dad. A massive red flag for me was that you said he has in the past threatened your family members. That is so not good. I would let the children get used to the idea that dad is not living at home. Continue with the counselling and be absolutely honest within sessions about everything that is happening. Maybe at a later stage he can join you but right now this is your time to adjust to the possiblity that he could revert back to how he was. You need that space to observe and this could be polluted if you are within the mould of being a 'wife'. Eight years is a long time to be treated badly. I don't think testing him for another few months would hurt as long as you do not hold it over him negatively. That is if you really want to but seriously I think he has done too much already. Personally, I would file and consider that if he wanted me back he would have to remarry me. I would consider the vows broken and no longer binding within the marriage - but I am ice cold when it comes to issues such as abandonment and betrayal. If he is serious he would do this and more to have you back. Personally I think he is counting on you making it easy and if you don't he will simply get another girlfriend and make out that you are to blame. You have to do what you think is right as really these things are not really something anyone can guide on. So my main concern is that this pause could be your undoing in that he will revert back and hurt you all again because really he will be almost guilt tripping you into letting him back in because of the few time limited changes. I think you can only have the aim in your heart to not let anyone drag you down to contemplate permitting things you would never yourself do and use that as a guide. The new bit is finding solid ways to respond which are affirming and such a strong influence that your children will internalise this and then develop their own boundaries. Take care, Eve x
oldshirt Posted July 22, 2013 Posted July 22, 2013 I'm sorry you're going through this. I'm a little appalled at the responses myself. Most of the people here have been cheated on and are trying to reconcile. I guess forgiveness is nowhere here. Foregiveness is for those who have a fundamentally good character, made a mistake that is out of character for them, have genuine remorse, have done everything they could to right their wrongs and have established a consistent and long term pattern of proper behavior and earned their trust back over the long haul. None of that applies here. This is a bad person with a life-long pattern of bad behavior. You deal with these kind of people by getting them out of your life and not looking back so that they can no longer continue to harm you.
stillafool Posted July 22, 2013 Posted July 22, 2013 Wow you all are very rude and hurtfull. For one thing... he doesn't even know that I am even thinking about taking him back. He has been out of the house ever since and only comes to pick up or drop off kids. He does still pay all my bills and financially support me and the kids but as far as he knows we are completely done. I have already filled out the divorce papers but had some friends and family comment that marriage is for better or for worse and that I shouldn't walk away so I just wanted some unbias opinions. There is no reason to insult me thanks I don't think anyone here has insulted you. The truth is it does take low self worth to accept the treatment your husband has shown you. People are just being truthful and saying things your family and friends wouldn't dare say. Isn't that the reason you came here - for unbiased opinions? I hope you are not staying because you depend on him financially. He doesn't sound like he will change IMHO and if you have daughters you are teaching them what a woman must accept in marriage.
Lauriebell82 Posted July 22, 2013 Posted July 22, 2013 Foregiveness is for those who have a fundamentally good character, made a mistake that is out of character for them, have genuine remorse, have done everything they could to right their wrongs and have established a consistent and long term pattern of proper behavior and earned their trust back over the long haul. None of that applies here. This is a bad person with a life-long pattern of bad behavior. You deal with these kind of people by getting them out of your life and not looking back so that they can no longer continue to harm you. I disagree with this. I made horrible choices and hurt a lot of people when I was younger. I changed, and have continued to do so over the years. It is possible IF you want it. OP husband needs to want to change, not for her, but because he wants to be a better person. Everyone is CAPABLE of changing, but not everyone actually wants to.
oldshirt Posted July 22, 2013 Posted July 22, 2013 I disagree with this. I made horrible choices and hurt a lot of people when I was younger. I changed, and have continued to do so over the years. It is possible IF you want it. OP husband needs to want to change, not for her, but because he wants to be a better person. Everyone is CAPABLE of changing, but not everyone actually wants to. Foregiveness means that you are no longer holding any anger, bitterness, resentfulness etc and that you are no longer seeking retribution for the damage you incurred. It does NOT mean that you think what took place is acceptable or that you will continue to accept maltreatment or even allow that person in your life again. If you have changed your life and the people you hurt choose to foregive you, that is their perogative but it doesnt mean they necessarily should or even want to hav anything to do with you in the future.
Lauriebell82 Posted July 22, 2013 Posted July 22, 2013 Foregiveness means that you are no longer holding any anger, bitterness, resentfulness etc and that you are no longer seeking retribution for the damage you incurred. It does NOT mean that you think what took place is acceptable or that you will continue to accept maltreatment or even allow that person in your life again. If you have changed your life and the people you hurt choose to foregive you, that is their perogative but it doesnt mean they necessarily should or even want to hav anything to do with you in the future. Very true. She doesnt have to forgive him even if he DOES end up changing, but she said she loves him and she did marry him. I guess I feel that marriage is for better or worse as long as both parties are willing to work on improving there relationships. Not all people feel that way though, which is why the divorce rate is so high.
Author soconfused541 Posted July 23, 2013 Author Posted July 23, 2013 I know he wants to change and has made some progress but I don't know if I can forgive him for what he has done. For the past 6 years I have done nothing but investigate everything he says and does. I am tired of that for sure. I know deep down he is a good person whi has made really bad choices. Also...not that it makes things "better" but in 2006 when we seperated and he did most of the hurtful things he had broken his foot at work and gotten horribly addicted to pills and I didn't even know and then got in to other drugs during the 11 months that we were seperated.
Eve Posted July 23, 2013 Posted July 23, 2013 I know he wants to change and has made some progress but I don't know if I can forgive him for what he has done. For the past 6 years I have done nothing but investigate everything he says and does. I am tired of that for sure. I know deep down he is a good person whi has made really bad choices. Also...not that it makes things "better" but in 2006 when we seperated and he did most of the hurtful things he had broken his foot at work and gotten horribly addicted to pills and I didn't even know and then got in to other drugs during the 11 months that we were seperated. Don't confuse being a problem solver with being in love. The main thing that will happen is that you yourself will find that you are not being loved as you need and want. Seriously. In your opening post you spoke off being angry. This is a symptom of not being loved properly and instead being the problem solver. I would consider the level of absence your H has caused could one day get him a punch in the face if he is not careful. I jest not.. studies show that abused partners can become abusers if they remain within an ill cycle of abusive behaviours. I wouldn't let him come back. He is one of those who will always need 'looking after'. Make him look after himself I say. Take care, Eve x
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