For BS... How did you deal with guilt and gaslighting?

[mbee]

Out of curiosity, how did you deal with your significant other blaming you for their infidelities, especially after DDAY? I'm speaking about your significant other making it clear that YOU are the problem and not THEM and that the AP is giving them something that you cannot. I understand that logically we may know these things are not true but it's still very hard to cope with and for me personally, has made me question the type of person I was in the relationship and wondering if I am indeed a terrible person, even though I know deep in my heart I was very loving, wonderful and amazing to him. There were flaws but nothing crazy significant.

[AbeNormal]

Out of curiosity, how did you deal with your significant other blaming you for their infidelities, especially after DDAY? I'm speaking about your significant other making it clear that YOU are the problem and not THEM and that the AP is giving them something that you cannot. I understand that logically we may know these things are not true but it's still very hard to cope with and for me personally, has made me question the type of person I was in the relationship and wondering if I am indeed a terrible person, even though I know deep in my heart I was very loving, wonderful and amazing to him. There were flaws but nothing crazy significant.

 

Personally, I did not deal with it well at all. Still struggling with that (and the trickle-truthing). Hard to resolve those things when/if they carry on for an extended period of time...

 

In a sense, of course, the "point" of gas-lighting (and blame-shifting, etc.) is perhaps a subconscious need to confuse/re-direct/deflect/shift, etc. If done well (and I use that term in the negative!) it most certainly can lead to you questioning your own sanity and lead to a degradation of your self-esteem.

 

It is a defense mechanism. A very nasty defense mechanism.

 

Let's hope that your significant other comes around (before the damage is too deep)...

 

I have not read your background story, but I most certainly wish you the best - it's a hard road to travel.

Edited July 21, 2013 by AbeNormal

[Confused48]

How soon after Dday is this happening? My WS did this right after Dday. And we continued for some time as you are.

 

One wise old poster here on LS, now gone, told me that my WS had already checked out of the marriage before the A began. That if I wanted to reconcile with my WS I would have to put up with this kind of crap for some time and hope that eventually my WS would value our marriage and me and come back.

 

I'm glad that I did. It did happen.

 

I was patient. I waited for WS to value me and the marriage. That did not happen quickly. And eventually I got tired of the fits and starts of remorse from WS. Eventually I broke down under the stress of knowing that WS was a stupid fool for not knowing what a great gift of mine WS was passing up. By that I mean the offer of reconciliation. Eventually I said good bye to WS.

 

Then WS saw the light. WS begged me for a second chance. WS and I are working on that now. Now neither I nor WS know if it will work. But we would never have had a chance if I'd not been able to say its over and I'm out of here.

 

You might need more time to get to where you can say its over. That's ok. Take it as slow as you need to. You are in control. Then when you say it is over, mean it. Move on if you have to. Be sure that you can and then say it. The end result will be far better than begging the cheater to love you again.

[AbeNormal]

... than begging the cheater to love you again.

 

I agree. This is something that should never be done. High road. Hell's bells.

Edited July 21, 2013 by AbeNormal

[mbee]

Thanks for all the thoughtful replies. I have cut him off a couple of weeks ago. A couple of weeks ago he told me that I was not the person I'm portraying, mainly because I'm showing anger and sadness. I'm a very nice person and would say I've been kinder than most given the situation. Due to us talking the anger has leaked through and he said I'm not the person he remembers and all this nonsense. At that point I felt no need to reply and cut him off. I am moving on. The sting of his words still remain however and make me question everything about myself.

 

This has been going on for about 3 months sadly but I cut him off 2 weeks ago. There was too much drama and him making it harder for me with actions and words that implied he was unhappy with his current situation and needed me. That was all a load of crap though since he's still in this mess.

[AbeNormal]

mbee,

 

Still haven't read your back-story. But I gather you don't have any children with this person.

 

Move on.

 

Crazy making is part of the gas-lighting/blame-shifting game. If you don't have a family together (or even if you do?) - you should not bet that the psychological abuse will change. Not a good bet.

 

You will likely find YOUR LIFE TURNED UPSIDE DOWN if you stay and attempt to work it out. Is it worth it if you don't have children to fend for? Much harder question - is it worth it if you do have children together? If you have children together, can you "turn this man/animal around"?

 

Crazy making.

 

You are not crazy. Get away from (or - if your have a family together - proceed to quell in the most direct way possible) the crazy making...

 

Again, I have not read your back-story. Just responding to your posts here.

 

But, if you don't have a family together then (based upon what you have posted here) - I'm sorry to say - lace up those running shoes.

Edited July 21, 2013 by AbeNormal

[AbeNormal]

Just went back and read some of your previous posts.

 

Good luck. Best wishes.

[BetrayedH]

Just having read a few of your prior posts, it didn't take long to figure out that this guy is a prime-time unstable cheating jerkwad.

 

You, on the other hand, sound like a bright and caring young woman.

 

His nonsense is not a reflection of you. Please quit asking yourself if you're a bad person. He's a wreck and you need to run. Your only questions a out that sbould be how far and how fast. This has gone on long enough.

 

The real question...What in your childhood has so damaged your self-image that you don't think you deserve better?

[mbee]

The real question...What in your childhood has so damaged your self-image that you don't think you deserve better?

 

Sorry, I think there has been some major confusion haha! First and foremost I am NOT TRYING to get back with my ex at all. This was a decision I made probably 2 months ago. I have stopped talking to him a few weeks ago. The only reason I talked to him so long was because I was very emotional and he kept reaching out and it was only until certain things involving finances that came up and major blame shifting that I cut the cord.

 

I do know I deserve better. That's not really my concern. I tend to know my worth and I will admit I do have to work on some issues with handling relationships in the future, but that's something I'm working on. My ultimate question is how folks deal with gas lighting and blame tactics from the cheater that may hurt your self-esteem and have you questioning your own sanity. That was really my only question since that's the thing I seem to be struggling with the most out of this aside from the normal betrayal nonsense.

 

Again, it is over in my mind. I've actually quit a business we founded together which was very hard for me a couple of weeks ago. Unfortunately we are in constant communication with the business and that was something I wanted to avoid but cannot deal with. He also owes me quite a bit of money and I am taking it at a loss. It really and truly is over. I'm moving in a month to a new area and have been working on myself. Just making this 100% clear. It's been a crazy past few months and I'm not willing to put myself back in that situation.

 

I just personally have never dealt with blaming to this high of a degree once in my entire life and to this extreme. Some things I can rub off, but hearing someone's words say you are a terrible person and this and that does hurt to a very high degree.

 

If you read my original post it was pretty clear what I was asking. I think some people drew some assumptions based off of that and somehow made this into me wanting him back haha and all sorts of craziness. I figured this was the right section for this since it seems to be a normal phenomenon in infidelity but maybe not.

Edited July 21, 2013 by mbee

[mbee]

And thanks for all the responses so far! Many of you seem to be suggesting to just remember the person is a wreck and accept it has nothing to do with you. I get that, and have done that but is there anything specific people have done?

 

I know when this first started a friend suggested making a list of things good, bad about myself, the other person and the relationship. I did that and it provided clarity but not sure if anyone knows of similar techniques that help?

 

I've also been to counseling as well, but just curious what people specifically did to cope with these things?

[Betterthanthis13]

I realize pretty quickly that if I agreed to listen to toxic false information like being blamed for his actions, I would fall completely apart. I was in a very fragile mental and emotional state.

 

If we were having a discussion and he turned in a direction where he was assigning any blame to me, I started freaking out and ended the conversation immediately, and physically removed myself from his presence. I would ignore all attempts by him to contact me.

 

I would then write in my journal or read on Loveshack, or call somebody until I felt a little stronger and could go back and explain what he was doing to me. I would take hours, sometimes even whole days.

 

We live together so in the meantime I was polite and cordial but refused to discuss anything related to what he was saying until I got my head straight.

 

Sometimes he got it, sometimes not.

 

This went on for a few weeks.

 

He mostly gets it now. But his brain can easily slip into selfish justification mode and I am always hyper aware of it.

 

I am not trying to reconcile, I should tell you that. He wants to but it doesn't make sense for me, we aren't married and have no kids together. I care about him a great deal, I love him and this all hurts like hell but I have decided that my mental health and being able to make decisions for my own life on my own time without pressure is what is important to me right now. He does not like being put off and told no but that's his problem.

 

The way I see it, he spent a great deal of time lying, being selfish and not considering my feelings in his decisions, and I can't trust him right now. I am not convinced I ever will be able to. I don't really think its worth the effort to try- but my heart is all smashed up so right now I am doing nothing but working on myself. If he can respect that- maybe we have a chance in the future of at least being friends. A relationship? Eh, I doubt it.

 

He knows exactly how I feel. So far he keeps doing things that tell me he is sincere. It's actually kind of annoying- part of me wishes he would just screw up so I could be rid of him forever.

 

It's been about 6 weeks since DDay. His cheating was more than a year ago.

[Dread Pirate Roberts]

Out of curiosity, how did you deal with your significant other blaming you for their infidelities, especially after DDAY? I'm speaking about your significant other making it clear that YOU are the problem and not THEM and that the AP is giving them something that you cannot. I understand that logically we may know these things are not true but it's still very hard to cope with and for me personally, has made me question the type of person I was in the relationship and wondering if I am indeed a terrible person, even though I know deep in my heart I was very loving, wonderful and amazing to him. There were flaws but nothing crazy significant.

 

You don't deal with it. You break up with them and let them have the grass on the other side. People may have legitimate reasons to not be happy with a partner, but it is never excuse to cheat. If you are the problem and they weren't getting what they wanted that's fine. Let her have her cake and eat it and get the hell away from her.

[Dread Pirate Roberts]

How soon after Dday is this happening? My WS did this right after Dday. And we continued for some time as you are.

 

One wise old poster here on LS, now gone, told me that my WS had already checked out of the marriage before the A began. That if I wanted to reconcile with my WS I would have to put up with this kind of crap for some time and hope that eventually my WS would value our marriage and me and come back.

 

I'm glad that I did. It did happen.

 

I was patient. I waited for WS to value me and the marriage. That did not happen quickly. And eventually I got tired of the fits and starts of remorse from WS. Eventually I broke down under the stress of knowing that WS was a stupid fool for not knowing what a great gift of mine WS was passing up. By that I mean the offer of reconciliation. Eventually I said good bye to WS.

 

Then WS saw the light. WS begged me for a second chance. WS and I are working on that now. Now neither I nor WS know if it will work. But we would never have had a chance if I'd not been able to say its over and I'm out of here.

 

You might need more time to get to where you can say its over. That's ok. Take it as slow as you need to. You are in control. Then when you say it is over, mean it. Move on if you have to. Be sure that you can and then say it. The end result will be far better than begging the cheater to love you again.

 

That was a lot of acronyms.

[Betterthanthis13]

Also-

As far as my contributions to our prior "relationship problems"? I can discuss those with him, we have been talking. I have made mistakes too and i can be accountable for those. But under NO CIRCUMSTANCES is it EVER ok for him to connect our relationship problems with justification for cheating. They are 2 seperate things. Yes we had relationship problems. Nothing justifies cheating. When he is in that state of mind I will have open talks with him. Otherwise he is out of luck.

[BetrayedH]

OP,

 

I get that you've said you're done. What concerned me is that you wrote this in your second thread a few months ago...

 

"On Tuesday he woke up wanting to snuggle and seemed super happy. He even started crying a bit and said it was tears of happiness. Than an hour later, he started bawling and saying he wanted to break up. I was in shock and suggested he sleep somewhere else tonight to work out his feelings. But he took EVERYTHING out of the apartment. I freaked out and got very upset, because he started saying how I was cruel and wouldn't just let him leave. He then got so upset, he lunged at me, grabbed my neck and pushed my body violently into the bathroom."

 

You later write that he hadn't even apologized. This is after you've forgiven him for cheating once (which he has done again). But here you are months later thinking that you might somehow be a "terrible person." There is an underlying self-esteem issue.

 

I don't have any tricks to convince you but I hope sometime soon you begin to actually believe that you didn't cause or deserve this; it is about something broken within HIM.

[mbee]

OP,

 

I get that you've said you're done. What concerned me is that you wrote this in your second thread a few months ago...

 

"On Tuesday he woke up wanting to snuggle and seemed super happy. He even started crying a bit and said it was tears of happiness. Than an hour later, he started bawling and saying he wanted to break up. I was in shock and suggested he sleep somewhere else tonight to work out his feelings. But he took EVERYTHING out of the apartment. I freaked out and got very upset, because he started saying how I was cruel and wouldn't just let him leave. He then got so upset, he lunged at me, grabbed my neck and pushed my body violently into the bathroom."

 

You later write that he hadn't even apologized. This is after you've forgiven him for cheating once (which he has done again). But here you are months later thinking that you might somehow be a "terrible person." There is an underlying self-esteem issue.

 

I don't have any tricks to convince you but I hope sometime soon you begin to actually believe that you didn't cause or deserve this; it is about something broken within HIM.

 

I guess I am confused. My ex has cheated on me once, which was a few months ago. I am believing there is something broken in him that is not my problem which resulted in some of these extreme and destructive behaviors.

 

Anyway, I'll look into the self-esteem thing... so I'm not ignoring your advice I guess I'm just confused by how this was interpreted. I don't think I'm a terrible person, not at all. That's not really the issue, it's just processing his words versus how I think which have no bearing on me as a person, more on the type of romantic partner that I was with him.

 

Blegh I'm starting to confuse myself haha so feel free to ignore this. Thank you for your advice regardless! I do appreciate it.

[mbee]

Also-

As far as my contributions to our prior "relationship problems"? I can discuss those with him, we have been talking. I have made mistakes too and i can be accountable for those. But under NO CIRCUMSTANCES is it EVER ok for him to connect our relationship problems with justification for cheating. They are 2 seperate things. Yes we had relationship problems. Nothing justifies cheating. When he is in that state of mind I will have open talks with him. Otherwise he is out of luck.

 

Thanks so much for writing this and your response earlier! It is very helpful. I'll try to remember that, how it's 2 different things. I may not have been the perfect partner but I suppose those flaws were exaggerated to justify the cheating and other abusive things that happened afterward. I'm glad you are leaving your ex as well, it is unfortunate you both have to live together right now.

 

There's things I can personally forgive but once it turns into not accepting responsibility and blaming games then that's something I personally cannot tolerate. I'll try to mentally find a way to separate any flaws I have from the way my ex has treated me.

 

Again that helps a bunch! Thank you!

[mbee]

OP,

 

I get that you've said you're done. What concerned me is that you wrote this in your second thread a few months ago...

 

"On Tuesday he woke up wanting to snuggle and seemed super happy. He even started crying a bit and said it was tears of happiness. Than an hour later, he started bawling and saying he wanted to break up. I was in shock and suggested he sleep somewhere else tonight to work out his feelings. But he took EVERYTHING out of the apartment. I freaked out and got very upset, because he started saying how I was cruel and wouldn't just let him leave. He then got so upset, he lunged at me, grabbed my neck and pushed my body violently into the bathroom."

 

You later write that he hadn't even apologized. This is after you've forgiven him for cheating once (which he has done again). But here you are months later thinking that you might somehow be a "terrible person." There is an underlying self-esteem issue.

 

I don't have any tricks to convince you but I hope sometime soon you begin to actually believe that you didn't cause or deserve this; it is about something broken within HIM.

 

EDIT: And just to add something else. I do think I have some self-esteem issues that are really hard to understand and something I hope IC may help with at some point. I think my biggest concern is sort of minimizing these behaviors from my ex. And I have no idea if I'm doing that cause I feel like it's "okay." For the record I come from a home that was filled with cheating, multiple divorces (5 from my mom alone) and other abusive behaviors (verbal, physical and sexual) from parental figures. Surprisingly I turned out pretty well from all of this, but clearly this shows up in my relationships, particularly with partners who have issues (this was never an issue with healthy, normal guys). Maybe that has something to do with the blame thing? Who knows.

 

Like I said it's difficult to understand since I do love my life, have a lot going for me and know what I deserve. Yet, perhaps this tends to show up with partners who are abusive and hurtful to some degree, hence my failure to cope with it. I am trying though, really hard, which is why I appreciate the advice others can give.

[Betterthanthis13]

Thanks so much for writing this and your response earlier! It is very helpful. I'll try to remember that, how it's 2 different things. I may not have been the perfect partner but I suppose those flaws were exaggerated to justify the cheating and other abusive things that happened afterward. I'm glad you are leaving your ex as well, it is unfortunate you both have to live together right now.

 

There's things I can personally forgive but once it turns into not accepting responsibility and blaming games then that's something I personally cannot tolerate. I'll try to mentally find a way to separate any flaws I have from the way my ex has treated me.

 

Again that helps a bunch! Thank you!

 

I was a mess the first few weeks after DDay so it was really hard, my mind was twisted and chaotic, I was prone to crying a lot, arguing, asking why, and doing all normal BS things. But I am really really glad I stuck up for myself on this one issue.

 

I don't know if you have ever seen the movie Rain Man, but there's a part in the movie at the airport where Charlie Babbitt is trying to convince Raymond to go on a plane. They talk about it for awhile and argue a little but as soon as Charlie starts to try to force him to go on the plane, he FREAKS OUT.

 

I had that scene in mind every time I would hear blame and justification, pull a Rain Man freak out, and leave the scene.

 

Probably not the healthiest way to deal with the situation or what a therapist would tell you to do, but I knew for myself there was no way I could tolerate being blamed for his cheating. Not then, not now, not ever.

 

I'm normally pretty calm and rational, and not prone to dramatic freak outs, lol.

 

Hope Rain Man gives you a little laugh here.

 

[96nole]

mbee:

I completely understand how you are feeling. My ex wife did the same thing to me. She threw it all at me.

 

After the first time I found out she was cheating on me, we went to a counselor. After the second time I found out she was cheating on me, I went back to the counselor. I filled him in on what had happened and everything that was said. I did my best to tell the complete story and as objective as possible. As I was telling him everything that was happening he stopped me mid sentence and said:

"stop....don't believe a word out of her mouth."

He continued on explaining that he's seen and heard it before. It's textbook blameshifting.

 

The only way to get past it all is time and knowing that it is the other person with the problem, not you.

 

That all started a year and a half ago for me. The divorce was finalized just over a year ago. I am now in a much better place. I no longer have the same feelings that I'm to blame like I was initially because of all of her blame shifting. And now, most of the comments and accusations that she threw at me are now jokes and punchlines between me and my family and friends. Many of the comments she made last year that struck me deep like a serrated knife are now producing hysterical laughter.