Do you think MM/MW would cheat on you if you were in the same boat as the BS?

[So happy together]

Why on earth would your happiness make me angry? Even if I were bitter that just makes zero sense. Are you in the right thread? I seriously cannot decipher what you are saying here. You have posted here many many times that your affair is long distance and your MM is not divorced. It's as though you disagree just to disagree. But call others bitter?

 

I get it. It's because he isnt divorced yet. Don't be so hard on yourself. They all say that.

 

OMG. LMFAO! Okay. Whatever you say. You don't sound bitter at all. You sound happy. And sweet. Like candy.

[HappyAtLast]

As this thread appears to have gone completely off topic and is submerged in details....

 

I have to ask, did you have to cut the parrot open? What kind of parrot was it?

 

I am a bird lover as well as an OW.

 

Thankfully (for both the bird and myself) not. We were able to massage her and get the egg to pass. This was rather nerve racking because had we caused the egg to break we definitely would have had to take drastic measures. Neither baby delivery or bird egg delivery is my particular specialty.

 

The bird was a green wing macaw, for which I was thankful. I could not imagine having to do that to a smaller bird.

 

I myself am not a bird lover. But my beautiful wife continues to bring home all sorts of the homeless little feathered monsters to torment me.

[So happy together]

As this thread appears to have gone completely off topic and is submerged in details....

 

I have to ask, did you have to cut the parrot open? What kind of parrot was it?

 

I am a bird lover as well as an OW.[/quote

 

You know, I had a sweet parakeet named Petie. He was a she, but that is irrelevant. She said "Shut the damned door" and "here kitty, kitty" to our cat, at which point she would bite the cats paws as she grabbed the cage.

 

When Petie got sick, I took her to the vet. They put her in a warmer and she died in the night. I got two calls from the vet, it was his first death, he was so sweet. A year later, I got a card saying that he remembered her and what a sweet bird she was. If you love birds, you're awesome.

[janedoe67]

 

I like this. As an analogy, I am adopted. I never felt rejected. I never felt this void or hole. I never felt like part of me was missing. I never even gave much thought to the idea of "real" or "not real" parents.

 

It always amazed me when other people who were adopted would ARGUE with me about how all adopted people feel that void so I MUST feel a void. I did some research, and ya know what? The OBJECTIVE overall stats agree with them. A majority of adopted people DO feel a bit of "missingness." It just bugged me when they assumed I didn't know how I felt.

 

Then again, I didn't take MY case and assume I could generalize it to all adopted people. I even had a best friend who was a happy adopted person. Still couldn't generalize. Because the objective overall stats said the opposite.

 

So I didn;t let them tell me how to feel, and I wasn't stubborn enough to assume that my friend and I made a general majority.

[happy stillmore]

janedoe,

 

Hey! Like you, my twin and I were adopted. I never felt like anything was missing. My parents were great and I loved them as any child would love their parent. I don't get it when some say they feel like something is missing. We felt special because we were very much wanted. In fact, our adoption day was like a second birthday where we celebrated. I will have to read the prior posts to see how this topic came up.

[seren]

Sorry for T/J but to prevent further eggbound parrot, make sure it has plenty of grit in its cage, make sure it's wormed, also if happens again, syringe garlic oil into beak, warm bathe egg end and if truly stuck, use a syringe and needle to gently pierce egg and remove contents being careful not to crack egg as it can perforate intestine. I have rescue hens and eggbound is a common problem and can be fatal. OK, sorry for T/J

[WakingUp]

LOL this thread has gone all over the place!

 

Steering back towards the topic...

 

Yes I think MM would cheat on me. I would never trust him.

 

He is currently hysterically bonding on a tropical island, and in between all that swinging from the chandeliers he is emailing me to tell me how much he loves me.

 

No I haven't replied. Im going sailing. (Different time zone here)

 

Let him sweat.

 

Im getting there!

[Spark1111]

Do you think your MM/MW would cheat on you if your relationship was in the same boat as their relationship with the BS is (i.e. sexless, loveless, like roommates, staying because of obligations, etc.)?

 

If yes, why? Would you try to prevent cheating from occurring? Do you think MM/MW would ultimately choose to stay with you over ending the relationship?

 

If not, why? How is your relationship with MM/MW different from their relationship with the BS?

 

Replies from former APs and BSs also welcome.

 

Sorry if I missed the last 22 pages of this thread....

 

but NO, I would never be with a man who cheated on me because he was unhappy with his partner.....What a cowardly, spineless thing to do.

 

Didn't do it as a GF, a SO, and only, finally, considered it as a BS because.....a million reasons, the recounting of which, once again, would really aggravate me and drive me crazy.

 

we always had sex, we always had love. in fact, I had many a strong, resourceful friend wanting to know what I was still doing with HIM, working three jobs while he dealt with the crash and burn of his business and broken back and doctor induced pain med addiction.

 

So shoot me! I loved him and prayed and hoped he would get straight and fly right. He did, right into the OW who knew NOTHING of our past, and man, he ate it up. nice, nice fantasy...I get it.

 

but no....someone who cheats is really, really damaged goods. there are fifty HEALTHY ways to leave your lover and cheating is not one of them, IMO.

 

poor coping and communication skills and low, low, "I'm a victim who cannot escape" is the mentality you are getting in this prized partner.

 

Who WANTS that future?

[Got it]

I don't think you will find anyone here who will be courageous enough to closely examine that possibility, or be truthful about what they may do about it, how they would feel. The possibility of being cheated on terrifies a cheater or ex cheater more than ANYONE else.

 

Again, you are speaking for everyone else as if it is a fact. This may be true for you but this is not true for all.

 

How on earth does one research and analyze to come to the conclusion that one who has been in an affair is terrified of being cheated on more than ANYONE else? Where is the science that is supporting your conclusion?

[Got it]

I understand why the OW who got their man would be so adamant that affairs are this wonderful thing, and why they are unrepentant, and seemingly smug. I really do. To say otherwise, would be a slap in their own face, would make their relationship seem less than, taken, not given freely. I can only think of 4 or 5 on this board, with one being suspect, that snagged their MM, and I'm not talking about the ongoing, long term affairs, as they haven't snagged anyone. I could really care less if you were an OW and the MM left for you, go forth and prosper, be happy, live in bliss, and I hope he's all you dreamed he'd be. Where I do take issue, is that small group (and it is small) who when OW come to these boards, clearly in pain, in some f'd up situations, wanting out, wanting answers, there are some that automatically take the story to THEM, how, that NEVER happened in their affair, how their MM never treated them like that, how he NEVER disrespected them. So sending the message to these broken women, that they obviously didn't do something right, didn't wait long enough, didn't love him hard enough, didn't stroke his ego lovingly enough, no, they weren't enough clearly, as they shouldn't be so miserable, and their beloved MM is still with that awful, BS. When the real answers they seek are brushed to the side, with a good luck, and I hope you find peace. If you're happy, be happy, you should be, but to minimize someone else, cause they seemingly fell short with the cheating MM, evidenced by his still being married, and treating the OW as a piece of meat, is wrong.

 

And who is doing this? I don't see anyone on this thread posting like that.

 

Edit - majority are not posting as such.

Edited July 24, 2013 by Got it

[2sure]

And who is doing this? I don't see anyone on this thread posting like that.

 

Edit - majority are not posting as such.

 

A very small group, as the poster stated. And I'm pretty objective, but just reading this thread it's obvious who. But I'm pretty sure we can't name posters outright , it's against the rules .

[2sure]

For the record, I am OW and BS, and my stance on birds is " somewhat indifferent". But I'm open, you know.

[jlola]

Again, you are speaking for everyone else as if it is a fact. This may be true for you but this is not true for all.

 

How on earth does one research and analyze to come to the conclusion that one who has been in an affair is terrified of being cheated on more than ANYONE else? Where is the science that is supporting your conclusion?

 

 

My father was a cheater. Vigilant about my mother or any woman cheating on him. I heard he once slapped a mistress because he was jealous. What the hell did he expect, he had a wife and kids. My sister has acyually said about her 5th husband"He is a good guy, he doesn't believe in cheating" with a straight face. This from the QUEEN of cheaters.

 

A friend once uttered "me and MW have vowed to never cheat on each other". But helping her cheat on her husband was A-ok!

 

I know other stories. It always makes me shake my head to hear cheaters talk about how they will not tolerate being cheated on. Or they know for a fact their man will never cheat on them because they are too special. But they can certainly do it to others because . Others are not as special as them so they deserve to be cheated on!

Edited July 24, 2013 by jlola

[threelaurels]

First, the same argument could be made for a BS and a WS who stay together. The ability to stay together, keep family, home and hearth is a reward to the WS for cheating. Because there is no significant consequences (monetarily, etc.) and because the pattern has already been established that they could cheat on this specific person, when things settle down again and when things get disconnected, there is a good likelihood they will seek out the same coping mechanisms. They have proven it already and if they have not addressed the whys will do it again.

 

What your argument is negating is outside of a reward/punishment stance is the person in question actually stepping out of the line of logic/coping mechanism and addressing the steps they took and making a concerted effort to change them. That regardless of the opposite sex partner, AP or BS or other partner, the WS addresses the most important pieces that are not controlled by others, by rewards, or by punishments. It addresses their desire for their actions and what they wanted to do in their lives.

 

Your scenario for the AP and WS doesn't work. One, there is always some external or internal potential motivator for cheating as that is within the individuals and will arise over time. And the idea that punishment can effect change. It may but in no type of training of any animal, human or otherwise, is the most effective way of changing behavior. It must be done through rewards and teaching the subject why this is the best course of action, and their desire to do make this decision to prove to be permanent. With humans, this cannot be truly effective if only controlled by outside sources and must be one done by the subject.

 

There is no way that our relationship hasn't already had moments of stresses that would not provide an opportunity to look to cheat if one of the two parties didn't so desire. And there is no level of controlling, punishment, etc. that the other one could effect that would stop the other party if their mind was set on it. It is by the independent will and desire of each party to make. Every day.

 

Sorry for the late response, especially as this thread has taken off. I haven't been online in a few days. I think you make valid points that I hadn't considered before. I think the cognitive element is a very important factor, and I'll have to think about this some more.

[threelaurels]

Really? How many times have you seen Bs NOT become OW? How many times have you NOT seen MM have another affair? How many times have you seen AP become the primary R? I see it often. O-F-T-E-N.

 

I cheated on my ex with my current boyfriend. After the cheating, I left my ex immediately and took some time to be single/have casual relationships before settling down my current boyfriend. I am happy with our relationship.

 

My sister's ex-husband left her for another woman. Then, he left the other woman and came back to my sister, only to cheat on her again with the same woman. My sister left him for good and now has a new partner who she recently had a child with, while he is still with the same woman. Once her ex found about about the new guy, he started doing the whole "I love you, I want to come back" nonsense and even suggested that my sister become his OW.

 

My boss cheated on his first wife with his second wife. Then, he cheated on the second wife with the third wife. He is still with the third wife. I don't know if he's cheating or will cheat on her, but I wouldn't be surprised if it happened.

 

Overall, I think there are a wide variety of outcomes for affairs. Although my experience lines up the most closely with a MP leaving for the AP, I was never married to my ex. I would have simply left him instead of cheating had the relationship not been physically, sexually, and emotionally abusive. I needed a support system to fall back on because I wasn't strong enough to do it on my own. Cheating was the easy way out, but I had to do what I had to do. Had I stayed, my ex might have one day escalated to the point that he killed me.

 

I may know more successful A couples that I'm simply not aware of, but I doubt they would make up the majority. Statistics most likely under-report the number of successful affairs, but I can't imagine that the real number would exceed 10% of all affairs--which still would make them a minority.

[cocorico]

I cheated on my ex with my current boyfriend. After the cheating, I left my ex immediately and took some time to be single/have casual relationships before settling down my current boyfriend. I am happy with our relationship.

 

My sister's ex-husband left her for another woman. Then, he left the other woman and came back to my sister, only to cheat on her again with the same woman. My sister left him for good and now has a new partner who she recently had a child with, while he is still with the same woman. Once her ex found about about the new guy, he started doing the whole "I love you, I want to come back" nonsense and even suggested that my sister become his OW.

 

My boss cheated on his first wife with his second wife. Then, he cheated on the second wife with the third wife. He is still with the third wife. I don't know if he's cheating or will cheat on her, but I wouldn't be surprised if it happened.

 

Overall, I think there are a wide variety of outcomes for affairs. Although my experience lines up the most closely with a MP leaving for the AP, I was never married to my ex. I would have simply left him instead of cheating had the relationship not been physically, sexually, and emotionally abusive. I needed a support system to fall back on because I wasn't strong enough to do it on my own. Cheating was the easy way out, but I had to do what I had to do. Had I stayed, my ex might have one day escalated to the point that he killed me.

 

I may know more successful A couples that I'm simply not aware of, but I doubt they would make up the majority. Statistics most likely under-report the number of successful affairs, but I can't imagine that the real number would exceed 10% of all affairs--which still would make them a minority.

 

I'm sure they are a minority. Just as only a minority of dating Rs go on to become Ms. I think - aside from arranged Ms in traditional societies - that that is true for any kind of R, that on a small percent gage go on to become Ms.

 

I guess the difference is that the likelihood of a successful outcome of an A being small is seen as grounds on which to discourage anyone from ever participating in one, while people do not generally discourage others from dating, marrying or even forming friendships on the basis that such a small proportion of those will lead to M (and they may get hurt along the way). Seems like a double standard to me.

[cocorico]

 

I wonder how those who say they do not hate affairs would would feel if their spouse had an affair behind their backs. They were lied to,gaslighted,manipulated,used.

 

 

I would feel disappointed, I'm sure. It's not how I would have hoped things would pan out. But it would likely not be hat big a deal to me, TBH. I don't measure my worth by my Rs. I derive my identity from my work, and while I know that by loving him I have given him the power to hurt me as no one else has ever been able to, I also know that I was just great before I ever knew him, and I'd be just great again if I didn't have him in my life. I do want him, but I don't need him. There are many other adventures I could have.

 

If we parted, it would make our time together and the love we shared no less special, and I would always treasure that.

[cocorico]

Because of the nature of an affair. Because the level of deceit associated with an affair. It takes a certain type of person to be able to do this to another human being. I question someone's morals in my mind when I hear they are capable of such long and profound deceit on another.

 

I'm sorry you were subjected to long and profound deceit. Many As, though, do not feature that. I'm sorry your H was so much meaner to you than was necessary to maintain the A.

[cocorico]

My father was a cheater. Vigilant about my mother or any woman cheating on him. I heard he once slapped a mistress because he was jealous. What the hell did he expect, he had a wife and kids. My sister has acyually said about her 5th husband"He is a good guy, he doesn't believe in cheating" with a straight face. This from the QUEEN of cheaters.

 

A friend once uttered "me and MW have vowed to never cheat on each other". But helping her cheat on her husband was A-ok!

 

I know other stories. It always makes me shake my head to hear cheaters talk about how they will not tolerate being cheated on. Or they know for a fact their man will never cheat on them because they are too special. But they can certainly do it to others because . Others are not as special as them so they deserve to be cheated on!

 

I guess this is true of my H's xW. She had no problem with her own adultery, believing it was her "right" since M oppressed women, but having it done to her ate her alive.

[Got it]

My father was a cheater. Vigilant about my mother or any woman cheating on him. I heard he once slapped a mistress because he was jealous. What the hell did he expect, he had a wife and kids. My sister has acyually said about her 5th husband"He is a good guy, he doesn't believe in cheating" with a straight face. This from the QUEEN of cheaters.

 

A friend once uttered "me and MW have vowed to never cheat on each other". But helping her cheat on her husband was A-ok!

 

I know other stories. It always makes me shake my head to hear cheaters talk about how they will not tolerate being cheated on. Or they know for a fact their man will never cheat on them because they are too special. But they can certainly do it to others because . Others are not as special as them so they deserve to be cheated on!

 

Again, we all have some real life examples that will bend us to one direction or another. But having a "sameness" bias does not make it accurate.

 

If one has empirical data to conclude the original statement then I am all ears (or eyes). Outside of that we are talking about our assumptions based on a very micro level.

[Summer Breeze]

Despite all protests to the contrary, an affair is very much woven into the foundation of an AP and WS relationship, and yes the actions of dishonesty are threaded in too even if that dishonesty was towards someone else. You cannot seperate those actions from the person. Bottom line is, for whatever reason, they chose that dishonest behavior.

 

I would like to ask, why is it that the OWs turned Wives or long term partners continue to frequent this forum in support of affairs? Isn't it counterproductive to support the type of behavior you are now attempting to seperate yourselves from, and are loathe to think could now enter you and your APs now primary relationships?

 

In my situation with DMM it is woven into our R but not in the way you're saying. As cocorico said there is nothing in our R that was dishonest. In the years we were together he never lied to me and since we've been back together he hasn't. Was he dishonest with his W. Yes but that was something in their R not ours. Just because he acted that way with someone else doesn't mean he can or will act that way with me. This is a whole new R and to be honest not much at all is similar to theirs.

 

How do I know that? Because they had multiple ddays and she told me several times she would never have walked away from him because she didn't want me to win. Because when I wasn't happy I ended it. Because he tried to start things up again after I'd ended it and I didn't respond til he was almost D. Because he knows I walked out with my toddler D when my xh cheated on me years ago. I'm not any better or worse than her. Our R isn't any better or worse than theirs. He might cheat on me again but if he does I'll walk away and he knows I can and will.

 

As far as being in here. It's no different to a BS who is in here. A few OW support As in general but in all actuality not many do. Many are in a situation like me where it is what it is and there's no reason to hide the truth of it. Sometimes the OW and the WS do end up together and there are pitfalls to that too. I'm not trying to disconnect myself from the fact I had an A. It's part of who I am.

 

I would hate it if he cheated but it wouldn't be the end of the world. Just us.

[Owl]

I'm sorry you were subjected to long and profound deceit. Many As, though, do not feature that. I'm sorry your H was so much meaner to you than was necessary to maintain the A.

 

Non sequiter.

 

An affair is a relationship that's founded in deceit. It's deliberately, intentionally hidden from the BS so that it can exist.

 

I don't buy that "many" A's don't feature that.

 

Was your H's wife aware of the affair from the very beginning? Or did he hide it from her as it grew...even if just hid it by lying by ommission?

[Owl]

I would feel disappointed, I'm sure. It's not how I would have hoped things would pan out. But it would likely not be hat big a deal to me, TBH. I don't measure my worth by my Rs. I derive my identity from my work, and while I know that by loving him I have given him the power to hurt me as no one else has ever been able to, I also know that I was just great before I ever knew him, and I'd be just great again if I didn't have him in my life. I do want him, but I don't need him. There are many other adventures I could have.

 

If we parted, it would make our time together and the love we shared no less special, and I would always treasure that.

 

It's easy to believe that you'll react in 'xyz manner' if you find out your spouse is cheating....right up until the moment you actually do.

 

Most every BS out there insists that they'd "do this", or "feel that" prior to finding out about the affair...and find themselves reacting far differently when it actually happens to them.

[Silly_Girl]

Non sequiter.

 

An affair is a relationship that's founded in deceit. It's deliberately, intentionally hidden from the BS so that it can exist.

 

I don't buy that "many" A's don't feature that.

 

Was your H's wife aware of the affair from the very beginning? Or did he hide it from her as it grew...even if just hid it by lying by ommission?

 

To me it's not like that.

 

I have a relationship with my boss. Albeit non-romantic.

 

If he doesn't lie to me but lies to his wife then he and I still share an honest relationship.

 

If he lies to his wife and says he's sacked me but hasn't, and doesn't lie to me, he and I still share an honest relationship.

[cocorico]

It's easy to believe that you'll react in 'xyz manner' if you find out your spouse is cheating....right up until the moment you actually do.

 

Most every BS out there insists that they'd "do this", or "feel that" prior to finding out about the affair...and find themselves reacting far differently when it actually happens to them.

 

I have no crystal ball, which was why I framed my post using "I'm sure" and "likely", etc. it's the best I can do without a TARDIS. I responded to the question in good faith. What kind of response would you have preferred, since you find that inadequate?