Do you think MM/MW would cheat on you if you were in the same boat as the BS?

July 23, 2013

This makes no sense to me....

Good coming out of a bad situation doesn't render the situation itself good, although understandable, in the sense that, "if that didn't happen, I wouldn't have met my SO."

If you were raped and it produced your child, or in an abusive relationship, but you had your children with that man, or name any other bad situation, in which something good came out of it, why would it make sense that you see rape or abuse as good things now, versus just seeing how, in spite of them, there was a silver lining?

I think that is the difference in the line of thinking: some see certain results as a good that came in spite of, and not because of.

I frankly think the term "reformed" is...cute. It implies this was some lifestyle choice or philosophy one espoused, then denounced. I'm sorry, but although I participated in an affair, at no point did I think it was a good thing. Hence, I was never a "good OW" or "happy OW", as I always felt conflicted and never adopted an attitude of how great it is because I love him etc. Therefore, I didn't "reform", as it was NEVER something I chose as a solid life choice then suddenly denounced. Even if I had married my AP, my stance would be: don't think it's a great thing to do at all, even though this happened for me.

I'm a mentor for undergrads, and there are lots of things I did that I wouldn't advise them to do, even though it may have worked for me, or something good came out of it incidentally, it's not hypocritical, it's becoming older, and wiser and seeing in hindsight the pitfalls I couldn't see while embedded in the situation. If as a parent I snorted cocaine at 16, and because of my drug using life, my coke dealer, became my boyfriend, who then became my husband, and we both cleaned up our act after he went to jail for a while, and now I have my children and we have a great life, am I a hypocrite for denouncing drugs and telling my child, or forget child, a friend of mine who is an adult, that I would stay far away from cocaine? Hypocrite or traveling a tumultuous road and seeing a better way/seeing the pitfalls? Because the tumultuous road smoothed out eventually, drug use and jail time are rendered irrelevant and now ONLY the silver lining counts as a basis for recommending a certain course of action? It makes sense to tell others to bet on that off chance that maybe they won't become an addict like I didn't, maybe they won't go to jail, maybe they will end up marrying their supplier. We all make mistakes, sometimes we do stuff that sheer luck prevented us from crashing and burning, or we get surprised and something good comes out of it, that said, it's quite different to then advise others based on that. You say As are Russian Roulette....why advise someone to play a foolhardy game? I have a very hard time understanding how others don't differentiate between silver lining and good in spite of, from a course of action being wise and a good investment.

In your example of rape or abuse it was a situation inflicted upon you with no real ability to stop it. Participating in an affair is a willing and conscious decision. So no, it isn't the same. And so I find NOW, once you marry your AP, suddenly hating the idea of affairs to be hypocritical. Where was that dislike while participating in it? Where was the holy line then?

Bee - your situation is different. You did not continue in a relationship with the AP. And with the choice of "reform" it was not across the board and I don't believe I was directly speaking to you. I was speaking to HA which I would say actually engaged and benefited from her affair. Why continue on with the AP if one disliked it so much? Why continue on with the pain towards the other people involved. As many are aware, just having the AP in the picture, even if the BS and WS divorce continues to hurt the BS. Why not bow out if one is so apologetic and regretful of their affair?

So, for me, when these actions are taken one is really not that sorry about their affair. I don't believe, one can be fully remorseful over their affair, I mean fully, deeply regretful for the pain they caused the BS, if they continue with their affair or spin off relationship. You just can't. You are still putting your feelings first. And that is the line for me. I am very sorry for what I have caused but I have never walked away. So I am sorry . . . . but up to that point. I am not willing to make the biggest sacrifice and end things. I wasn't while in the affair, during separation, after divorce, etc. So I don't get holier than thou and sneer at those in affairs now because I know that my talk doesn't have the walk tied to it.

It is easy to be out of the affair and tell others they are wrong. But once you have "been on the dark side" come out the other end, and still with the AP, there is one defining line you have never allowed to cross. You have not had the rubber meet the road and put into action the most active and sacrificing decision. You did not walk away from the AP to eliminate yourself from any ties to the BS.

And so, for me, there is not true remorse. So, for me, it is hypocritical to speak so diminishing of those in affairs and tell them to do what is right when "you" couldn't actually do it yourself.

I guess it reminds me of the parenting joke, do as I say not as I do.

July 23, 2013

\A hypocrite IMO is one who pretends they NEVER had an affair and hides their marriage was from an affair and bashes those having one, not one who admits to it, but says they wouldn't recommend it to others. Because the tumultuous road smoothed out eventually, drug use and jail time are rendered irrelevant and now ONLY the silver lining counts as a basis for recommending a certain course of action? It makes sense to tell others to bet on that off chance that maybe they won't become an addict like I didn't, maybe they won't go to jail, maybe they will end up marrying their supplier. We all make mistakes, sometimes we do stuff that sheer luck prevented us from crashing and burning, or we get surprised and something good comes out of it, that said, it's quite different to then advise others based on that. You say As are Russian Roulette....why advise someone to play a foolhardy game? I have a very hard time understanding how others don't differentiate between silver lining and good in spite of, from a course of action being wise and a good investment.

Miss Bee...I believe I'm developing a small crush on you! LOL! Seriously, you have a way with words that is just so concise and clear!

July 23, 2013

Geez! Are people no longer allowed to change their minds about issues? It's like a person used to smoke, but has since quit and is living a much healthier life and now advocates against smoking... but nope! That's being hypocritical!

July 23, 2013

You say As are Russian Roulette....why advise someone to play a foolhardy game? I have a very hard time understanding how others don't differentiate between silver lining and good in spite of, from a course of action being wise and a good investment.

I don't advise anyone to play a foolhardy game. I just don't paint the picture that is all fire and brimstone either. I try and give a fair and balanced picture of what it can be, based on my experience. I tend to speak in "I" statements, preface with it being my experience, and I am very clear how I laid things out in the beginning as it was not a lifestyle choice for me to continue on in.

I think there is a happy medium and I can't deny, lie, or cover up the positive moments I had, nor am I quiet about the negative ones.

But, I feel, if one is not speaking from the far end of the pendulum swing then they are seen as only speaking from the opposite end. There is no allowance for a middle ground.

July 23, 2013

Geez! Are people no longer allowed to change their minds about issues? It's like a person used to smoke, but has since quit and is living a much healthier life and now advocates against smoking... but nope! That's being hypocritical!

Not if they are continuing to sneak a puff in here and there, but only when they are out partying for the night. Or only when it has been a really rough day.

July 23, 2013

In your example of rape or abuse it was a situation inflicted upon you with no real ability to stop it. Participating in an affair is a willing and conscious decision. So no, it isn't the same. And so I find NOW, once you marry your AP, suddenly hating the idea of affairs to be hypocritical. Where was that dislike while participating in it? Where was the holy line then?

Bee - your situation is different. You did not continue in a relationship with the AP. And with the choice of "reform" it was not across the board and I don't believe I was directly speaking to you. I was speaking to HA which I would say actually engaged and benefited from her affair. Why continue on with the AP if one disliked it so much? Why continue on with the pain towards the other people involved. As many are aware, just having the AP in the picture, even if the BS and WS divorce continues to hurt the BS. Why not bow out if one is so apologetic and regretful of their affair?

So, for me, when these actions are taken one is really not that sorry about their affair. I don't believe, one can be fully remorseful over their affair, I mean fully, deeply regretful for the pain they caused the BS, if they continue with their affair or spin off relationship. You just can't. You are still putting your feelings first. And that is the line for me. I am very sorry for what I have caused but I have never walked away. So I am sorry . . . . but up to that point. I am not willing to make the biggest sacrifice and end things. I wasn't while in the affair, during separation, after divorce, etc. So I don't get holier than thou and sneer at those in affairs now because I know that my talk doesn't have the walk tied to it.

It is easy to be out of the affair and tell others they are wrong. But once you have "been on the dark side" come out the other end, and still with the AP, there is one defining line you have never allowed to cross. You have not had the rubber meet the road and put into action the most active and sacrificing decision. You did not walk away from the AP to eliminate yourself from any ties to the BS.

And so, for me, there is not true remorse. So, for me, it is hypocritical to speak so diminishing of those in affairs and tell them to do what is right when "you" couldn't actually do it yourself.

I guess it reminds me of the parenting joke, do as I say not as I do.

If this were true, noone would ever really learn from the error of their ways in any area of life and then go on to try to help others. If a person makes it across a bridge that is old and shaky and halfway falling down, and almost perishes but makes it to the other side, and then sees another car approaching, should they not try to warn them not to try to cross over? Or if a person was once suicidal, but learns how to cope with life and builds a happy life for themselves, should they never join a suicide line to tell others not to kill themselves, because they would be hyprocrites if they made unsuccessful suicide attempts?

I suspect you know better, but this is yet another defense mechanism.

July 23, 2013

But listen, I am loving this swing of the pendulum swing that apparently is advocating the fact that once a cheater isn't always a cheater. And apparently the taint of the affair isn't on the AP couple forever! I wonder how the BS in these situations feel about that? I am sure they are appreciate of the negative slant on affairs. I guess better late than never?

July 23, 2013

In your example of rape or abuse it was a situation inflicted upon you with no real ability to stop it. Participating in an affair is a willing and conscious decision. So no, it isn't the same. And so I find NOW, once you marry your AP, suddenly hating the idea of affairs to be hypocritical. Where was that dislike while participating in it? Where was the holy line then?

Bee - your situation is different. You did not continue in a relationship with the AP. And with the choice of "reform" it was not across the board and I don't believe I was directly speaking to you. I was speaking to HA which I would say actually engaged and benefited from her affair. Why continue on with the AP if one disliked it so much? Why continue on with the pain towards the other people involved. As many are aware, just having the AP in the picture, even if the BS and WS divorce continues to hurt the BS. Why not bow out if one is so apologetic and regretful of their affair?

So, for me, when these actions are taken one is really not that sorry about their affair. I don't believe, one can be fully remorseful over their affair, I mean fully, deeply regretful for the pain they caused the BS, if they continue with their affair or spin off relationship. You just can't. You are still putting your feelings first. And that is the line for me. I am very sorry for what I have caused but I have never walked away. So I am sorry . . . . but up to that point. I am not willing to make the biggest sacrifice and end things. I wasn't while in the affair, during separation, after divorce, etc. So I don't get holier than thou and sneer at those in affairs now because I know that my talk doesn't have the walk tied to it.

It is easy to be out of the affair and tell others they are wrong. But once you have "been on the dark side" come out the other end, and still with the AP, there is one defining line you have never allowed to cross. You have not had the rubber meet the road and put into action the move active and sacrificing event. You did not walk away from the AP to eliminate yourself from any ties to the BS.

And so, for me, there is not true remorse. So, for me, it is hypocritical to speak so diminishing of those in affairs and tell them to do what is right when "you" couldn't actually do it yourself.

I guess it reminds me of the parenting joke, do as I say not as I do.

Although it's a joke...that is what parenting has to be sometimes though. Every mistake or choice I made as a parent, I cannot say "Well since I did it, I can't tell my child not to"...oh yes I can and a good parent should! Just like therapists aren't perfect, I'm sure much of the advice they give, they may have a hard time following themselves; however, that's irrelevant, as it doesn't mean their advice is wrong, just because they can't do it themselves or in the past they made some of those mistakes too.

Even if we take rape and abuse away as inflicted, drug use, for example, is still a choice...how does the analogy work for you in that case?

I didn't think you were talking about me, but wanted to address the so oft used reformed term, as from my very first post in this forum, I saw it and was like this makes no sense.

We'll have to disagree though about not being remorseful because you went on to be with your exAP. I mean, if they left their spouse, it's not as though you stopped them from being together, if in their case they would have left anyway. I do think there is some black and white going on, which people sometimes see in others, but not themselves. I fully believe we're all capable of mistakes or making less than stellar choices. Some mistakes can never be undone and all you can do is live as best as you can with the consequences. I don't agree that just because you ended up with your AP means you cannot regret having an affair....I don't know where to begin to understand that. I have so many many many situations I would never repeat and regret it happening in that way, yet, I appreciate some of the incidental good. I can hold those two simultaneously....it's not a black and white either or. You can hate rape, and love your child who is a byproduct. You can know cigarettes are bad, but still smoke them and tell other people they can be toxic. You can dislike affairs, but love your spouse and also regret having had an affair. I also believe the current OW who says they feel bad for the BS, yet they are still in affairs. It's not as simple as: if you felt bad you'd stop. It's more complex than that, it's, I have a conscience, which this violates, so I feel badly about it, but I am still doing it because I'm already attached and it is hard for me to let go of this person and the good I feel doesn't currently give me enough reason to stop.

That's how human beings work...we hold contradictory feelings and emotions ALL the time. It is simplistic to believe that people only do things they feel good about or never do things they feel badly about. Most OW are conflicted...very few are genuinely basking in the A as a wonderful enterprise and course of action to be repeated again and again as they see fit. Most see it as a messy business they are doing hoping for some good outcome in spite of, and that makes sense. I totally get it. That's also why I get why if you've always been conflicted, when it's over and done, you won't be the first to encourage it and I do not think it is as simple as: well if you felt so bad, you would have dumped him and not gotten married, even after he and the BS divorced....that's a stretch. Don't know HA's background but in a case where the MP had an exit affair and divorced their spouse anyway, I don't see how it would further help the BS if the former AP avoided being with this new single exMM, because they felt bad they met during the affair.

July 23, 2013

Not if they are continuing to sneak a puff in here and there, but only when they are out partying for the night. Or only when it has been a really rough day.

That sneaking and excusing in the above statement is part of the mindset I am talking about. And the one I am very glad to have walked away from.

July 23, 2013

Regret and remorse are two totally separate things.

I don't agree, nor have I read on other forums, especially those by BS, whom believe that one can ever be truly remorseful if they continue on with the AP. There just isn't the essence of what remorse truly means.

One can change their mind, and obviously with time, the past is softened and forgotten. To me, not exhibiting the above negates any actions following the words.

It is easy for me to now say how much I dislike affairs. I am sitting pretty, not in conflict and not needing to put action to words. But my past actions acutely show differently and as much as I may want to distance myself from that, saying I have learned, I know better, I understand, that person is still a part of me. So I don't feel I have the right or ability to come down so black and white.

If others feel differently, then that's fine. Whatever floats your boat.

July 23, 2013

Don't know HA's background but in a case where the MP had an exit affair and divorced their spouse anyway, I don't see how it would further help the BS if the former AP avoided being with this new single exMM, because they felt bad they met during the affair.

There's a whole lot more to our background than the little bit I shared, but there was a period of time where we both walked away from eachother and I tried to see if I could save my marriage. And we reunited a while after my H and I seperated. That's the super abridged cliff notes version. So the "rubber meets the road" comments Got It made did not even apply for my situation as remorse was something that was felt long before me and my now H entered a LTR and eventually married.

July 23, 2013

I totally get it. That's also why I get why if you've always been conflicted, when it's over and done, you won't be the first to encourage it and I do not think it is as simple as: well if you felt so bad, you would have dumped him and not gotten married, even after he and the BS divorced....that's a stretch. Don't know HA's background but in a case where the MP had an exit affair and divorced their spouse anyway, I don't see how it would further help the BS if the former AP avoided being with this new single exMM, because they felt bad they met during the affair.

Because, especially if there are kids, you are still connected to the BS. I think you will hear from many BS that once divorced don't care whom their ex dates but THAT person will always be a slap in the face if they resurface. That person will always be the reason for all the pain. Because if they knew that there was an OP, then that person represents the hurt, pain and betrayal regardless.

Am I in bizarro world here where I am the one defending this stance? I swear I thought this was common knowledge. Pop over the infidelity or SI and pose these questions and you are going to get a pretty good consensus on this.

July 23, 2013

Of course they're allowed! But they have no grounds when people call them out on their hypocrisy, is all.

I think we're misusing hypocrisy in this thread. I generally find wikipedia lacking, but, that's the first result which came up, which actually clarifies what it is, and clarifies my own point that hypocrisy isn't admitting to a choice then not advocating it to others, as you and others suggest. But rather, it involves pretending you believe something you in fact don't, pretending say that you've never had and affair and never would, while all the while keeping it secret that you in fact are in an affair. It is having had an abortion, keeping it secret, for the purposes of crusading and bashing others, while pretending you never made that mistake. Hypocrisy is more akin to lying than a change of heart/reformation (lol, which reformed OW is more appropriate here actually). Once one has admitted to having made a choice, then decides against making it again, one is not a hypocrite, solely because one has admitted it and isn't practicing deceit.

Here you are:

Hypocrisy is the state of pretending to have virtues, moral or religious beliefs, principles, etc., that one does not actually have. Hypocrisy involves the deception of others and is thus a kind of lie.
Hypocrisy is not simply failing to practice those virtues that one preaches.

Samuel Johnson made this point when he wrote about the misuse of the charge of "hypocrisy" in Rambler No. 14:

Nothing is more unjust, however common, than to charge with hypocrisy him that expresses zeal for those virtues which he neglects to practice; since he may be sincerely convinced of the advantages of conquering his passions, without having yet obtained the victory, as a man may be confident of the advantages of a voyage, or a journey, without having courage or industry to undertake it, and may honestly recommend to others, those attempts which he neglects himself.

Thus, an alcoholic's advocating temperance, for example, would not be considered an act of hypocrisy as long as the alcoholic made no pretense of sobriety.

Hypocrisy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I think that hits the nail on the head in defining what hypocrisy is and is not.

July 23, 2013

In my situation, they were separated and we had been broken up. They were doing okay coparenting for those months and figuring out how to handle the divorce. Suddenly, she finds out I am in the picture, and then holy crap, hell has no fury! Prior to that point, no discussion of them getting back together, finding out he and I are together, and it was a full court press to win him back. The divorce turned ugly from that point on. He was a separated man, living separately, no energies or actions by either of them to rekindle things and discussion the divorce.

July 23, 2013

I think we're misusing hypocrisy in this thread. I generally find wikipedia lacking, but, that's the first result which came up, which actually clarifies what it is, and clarifies my own point that hypocrisy isn't admitting to a choice then not advocating it to others, as you and others suggest. But rather, it involves pretending you believe something you in fact don't, pretending say that you've never had and affair and never would, while all the while keeping it secret that you in fact are in an affair. It is having had an abortion, keeping it secret, for the purposes of crusading and bashing others, while pretending you never made that mistake. Hypocrisy is more akin to lying than a change of heart/reformation (lol, which reformed OW is more appropriate here actually). Once one has admitted to having made a choice, then decides against making it again, one is not a hypocrite, solely because one has admitted it and isn't practicing deceit.

Here you are:

I think that hits the nail on the head in defining what hypocrisy is and is not.

Which again, to me, marrying your AP and staying in a relationship with them is no different than being in an active affair and saying you are against affairs. Both are hypocritical.

"The practice of claiming to have moral standards or beliefs to which one's own behavior does not conform; pretense."

July 23, 2013

I am not sure that there is not some hypocrisy happening here.

As I former wandering spouse married to their affair partner for many decades now, I will always advise someone on the side of not engaging in an affair. That said, based upon my background, there is really only so far that I can go with this. I cannot make blanket statements regarding affairs, since I allowed myself to engage in one.

As an example, a reformed thief, in my humble opinion would need to return everything he had ever stolen and got it out of his life before becoming one who preaches out against stealing.

Preaching out against stealing whilst living amongst all of the luxuries that one has stolen does seem a bit hypocritical to me.

July 23, 2013

I don't advise anyone to play a foolhardy game. I just don't paint the picture that is all fire and brimstone either. I try and give a fair and balanced picture of what it can be, based on my experience. I tend to speak in "I" statements, preface with it being my experience, and I am very clear how I laid things out in the beginning as it was not a lifestyle choice for me to continue on in.

I think there is a happy medium and I can't deny, lie, or cover up the positive moments I had, nor am I quiet about the negative ones.

But, I feel, if one is not speaking from the far end of the pendulum swing then they are seen as only speaking from the opposite end. There is no allowance for a middle ground.

I don't know what exactly you mean by there is no allowance for a middle ground, however, I always believe in being fair and balanced. But I don't think any of us are in the absolute middle, like a judge, as we all come from our own angle and experience, so we're not right in the center. I think I try to be fair and balanced but my slant is more towards, nope, don't think this will work out for you. While others may try to be fair and balanced, but their stance is still more towards, yes, it can work out, mine did. There is more of a trying to be in the middle but your own slant being apparent than there is truly an unbiased middle.

July 23, 2013

Which again, to me, marrying your AP and staying in a relationship with them is no different than being in an active affair and saying you are against affairs. Both are hypocritical.

"The practice of claiming to have moral standards or beliefs to which one's own behavior does not conform; pretense."

Sometimes people really do change. That's the most simple answer I can give to such a complicated subject.

July 23, 2013

This makes no sense to me....

Good coming out of a bad situation doesn't render the situation itself good, although understandable, in the sense that, "if that didn't happen, I wouldn't have met my SO."

If you were raped and it produced your child, or in an abusive relationship, but you had your children with that man, or name any other bad situation, in which something good came out of it, why would it make sense that you see rape or abuse as good things now, versus just seeing how, in spite of them, there was a silver lining? Would it make sense to say "I can't see rape as a bad thing, when I stare into my baby boy's eyes?" No one would say that...as their beautiful child which came from that situation did not all of a sudden render the situation/rape itself a good thing. I think it seems sometimes that some in affairs, believe in accepting the baby and the bath water, as in if they found happiness As then are also good....while others, like myself, believe you can throw out the bath water, and leave the baby, i.e. embrace your happy outcome, no need to be ashamed of it, but you don't have to all of a sudden value affairs themselves as an enterprise and feel indebted to an affair and praise it as a good thing.

I think that is the difference in the line of thinking: some see certain results as a good that came in spite of, and not because of.

I frankly think the term "reformed" is...cute. It implies this was some lifestyle choice or philosophy one espoused, then denounced. I'm sorry, but although I participated in an affair, at no point did I think it was a good thing. Hence, I was never a "good OW" or "happy OW", as I always felt conflicted and never adopted an attitude of how great it is because I love him etc. Therefore, I didn't "reform", as it was NEVER something I chose as a solid life choice then suddenly denounced. Even if I had married my AP, my stance would be: don't think it's a great thing to do at all, even though this happened for me.

I'm a mentor for undergrads, and there are lots of things I did that I wouldn't advise them to do, even though it may have worked for me, or something good came out of it incidentally, it's not hypocritical, it's becoming older, and wiser and seeing in hindsight the pitfalls I couldn't see while embedded in the situation. If as a parent I snorted cocaine at 16, and because of my drug using life, my coke dealer, became my boyfriend, who then became my husband, and we both cleaned up our act after he went to jail for a while, and now I have my children and we have a great life, am I a hypocrite for denouncing drugs and telling my child, or forget child, a friend of mine who is an adult, that I would stay far away from cocaine? Hypocrite or traveling a tumultuous road and seeing a better way/seeing the pitfalls? Because the tumultuous road smoothed out eventually, drug use and jail time are rendered irrelevant and now ONLY the silver lining counts as a basis for recommending a certain course of action? It makes sense to tell others to bet on that off chance that maybe they won't become an addict like I didn't, maybe they won't go to jail, maybe they will end up marrying their supplier. We all make mistakes, sometimes we do stuff that sheer luck prevented us from crashing and burning, or we get surprised and something good comes out of it, that said, it's quite different to then advise others based on that. You say As are Russian Roulette....why advise someone to play a foolhardy game? I have a very hard time understanding how others don't differentiate between silver lining and good in spite of, from a course of action being wise and a good investment.

Miss Bee, they say common sense ain't so common anymore. But you have lots of it.

I wonder how those who say they do not hate affairs would would feel if their spouse had an affair behind their backs. They were lied to,gaslighted,manipulated,used.

The new motto should be "It's all fun and games till "I" get hurt". Everyone wants to say they are sure they were the first affair partner, or "no, it would never happen to me because I am too special to him" God forbid it did. It seems a bit selfish to think it is ok to do to someone else what you do not want happening to you.

I think most people fall in love during an affair because they were seeking that honeymoon stage. They are addicted to that chemical high. So soulmate could have been anyone who was willing to delve into the affair with you. The high was just your body reacting naturally to someone you were attracted to. But also forbidden,intermittent time together,longing,secrets,obstacles fuel the fire.

Hopefully, when you marry the AP you get a man who understands the honeymoon and chemicals do not last. Years down the line when life gets mundane and a pretty woman at work gives him attention, those chemicals may start up again.

In the Polyamorous relationships. they warn that even if you and your partner are very close, bringing anyone new into the mix can create what they call "new relationship energy". It means though you may love your spouse completely, and be HAPPY in your relationship, be aware when you find a new person you have to be in control of your emotions, Do not allow emotions to control you. If you have bad impulse control, bad boundaries you can mess up your "good " relationship.

If you are not aware of "New relationship energy" You will find yourself giving less time to your spouse and falling in love with the new person. Comparing the old and known to new and exciting. It is human biology,to have all these chemicals come to the surface when we meet and spend time with someone we are attracted to.

But years later, when new is not new anymore and the chemicals have waned. Many find they have made a grave mistake.

"I Walk The Line"

I keep a close watch on this heart of mine

I keep my eyes wide open all the time

I keep the ends out for the tie that binds

Because your mine, I walk the line.

An aunt died last year. She was fairly young,50 something. Anyway, I will never forget what she told everyone on her deathbed. She said she regretted leaving her first husband for her second. She never had children, but she realized the true love did not come from the second husband. But the actions of her first.

I also have two male friends. One married his MW. He says after a few years and 2 kids later, he realized the affair should have stayed an affair.

And I have another friend who was involved with a MW. He does not know how his head got so wrapped up. But will tell anyone that an affair brings nothing but trouble and pain. He says he cannot even watch affairs on television he is too disgusted. Is he being a hypocrite? No.

But he has lots of FOO issues. His mother left his father with 4 children when he was 9 for her affair partner. He changed drastically after that and became a problem child. His mother has been married 4x now.

He and I parted ways a few years back because I was the only one who told him he was going against his integrity and he needed to find himself. I was the only one who pointed out,he was choosing a woman just like the mother he claimed to have no respect for.

He has thanked me for calling him out. said he began to look into himself and he did not like what he saw. Said the affair made him depressed, but after giving up his soul, he made the affair and MW out to be more special than she was.

He built her up. gave her qualities she never had. Made excuses for her behavior. But now he sees being with her would have been a nightmare. He also sees she had a great husband and she was the problem. Never satisfied,disrespectful to her spouse and prone to depression.

She used to pick up the phone and speak with her BS in her native language when they were together. Sometimes right after they had sex. So how could he ever trust her?

His MW would complain her husband came home from work drunk everynight. A very educated man with a high position. Friend would feel sorry for her.

But towards the end of the affair,when she decided her husband was not so bad after all. My friend asked if he stopped drinking. She looked at him puzzled and said,"what?? he doesn't drink". He still shakes his head about that. He said there were more red flags. But they saw each other infrequently and they talked about marrying,kids and future. So he ignored it all because he wanted that fantasy to come true.He thought she was going to make his life happy just like in the movies.

I would love to have him on here. But he has no patience for forums and much more blunt than Pierre.

In the end he met a mutual friend who had no idea about the affair. The man told him the husband was a great guy and very much in love with his wife. She apparently had been the chaser in their relationship. But 3 years into the marriage, she was searching for a love high and her ego stroked. That finally woke him up to see who he really had been dealing with. He now sees her clearly. But admits the time limit of the affair, plus the competition and longing kept him around. Because he was familiar with that feeling. He had those feelings as a small boy. Longing for his mother but getting small amounts of time with her. Competing with the OM for her love. This woman triggered those feelings which he mistook for love.

Self awareness is crucial.

July 23, 2013

I am not sure that there is not some hypocrisy happening here.

As I former wandering spouse married to their affair partner for many decades now, I will always advise someone on the side of not engaging in an affair. That said, based upon my background, there is really only so far that I can go with this. I cannot make blanket statements regarding affairs, since I allowed myself to engage in one.

As an example, a reformed thief, in my humble opinion would need to return everything he had ever stolen and got it out of his life before becoming one who preaches out against stealing.

Preaching out against stealing whilst living amongst all of the luxuries that one has stolen does seem a bit hypocritical to me.

In our scenario, according to your analogy, the "riches" I guess that was stolen was me, and I was returned to the marriage. My current Husband/Ex AP and I were in NC until my ex and I seperated. So there was an attempt at "setting things right."

July 23, 2013

Additionally, I also fail to understand how those for whom an affair was "successful" for lack of a better word, ended up with their affair partner can possibly tell another embarking on the same journey that they are going to fail.

Yes, I may think it. We all know the statistics. But, being so blatant about it, to me, sounds as though one is saying "well yes, it worked out for me because I am smarter, nicer, insert appropriate word here, then you folks are so don't try this at home."

July 23, 2013

I wonder how those who say they do not hate affairs would would feel if their spouse had an affair behind their backs. They were lied to,gaslighted,manipulated,used.

I don't think you will find anyone here who will be courageous enough to closely examine that possibility, or be truthful about what they may do about it, how they would feel. The possibility of being cheated on terrifies a cheater or ex cheater more than ANYONE else.

July 23, 2013

In our scenario, according to your analogy, the "riches" I guess that was stolen was me, and I was returned to the marriage. My current Husband/Ex AP and I were in NC until my ex and I seperated. So there was an attempt at "setting things right."

I can justify all I want also. My ex-wife had two affairs, I stayed until my children were grown, etc., etc., etc.. It does not change the fact that I am married to the person with whom I engaged in an affair.

Like it or not, it DOES take away a bit of our moral standing.

July 23, 2013

Additionally, I also fail to understand how those for whom an affair was "successful" for lack of a better word, ended up with their affair partner can possibly tell another embarking on the same journey that they are going to fail.

Yes, I may think it. We all know the statistics. But, being so blatant about it, to me, sounds as though one is saying "well yes, it worked out for me because I am smarter, nicer, insert appropriate word here, then you folks are so don't try this at home."

Saying someone WILL fail, and pointing out the odds and possibilities of failure are 2 different things. as someone else pointed out, some people survive Russian Roullete, but would it be wrong or erroneous to say that SOMEONE in that circle is gonna die or get maimed by playing? At what point do people get real and face the truth about their behaviors and actions?

July 23, 2013

In our scenario, according to your analogy, the "riches" I guess that was stolen was me, and I was returned to the marriage. My current Husband/Ex AP and I were in NC until my ex and I seperated. So there was an attempt at "setting things right."

So no affair ever took place then?

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