Do you think MM/MW would cheat on you if you were in the same boat as the BS?

July 22, 2013

I appreciate your insight. I'll take it into consideration. Thank you for being kind about it. I say mine is different when people ask questions about OW being hurt or unhappy. I wasn't. I'm not.

But... I believe even if an OW is only happy right now, and that is what they want, then they should be able to, without having people attack them like someone who cut their arm in the ocean and the sharks are circling, trying to get we OW to run over to the 'Oh my god, we are horrible, should repent and this was the worst decision ever' side... for MOST it is not. They are getting pleasure from the A or it would not be happening. I'm not happy that my R began with an A because I feel sorry for his stbx... but generally speaking, if they are in it, I'll support THE PERSON and be kind.

It's been a really interesting thing for me on this forum. I am a member of other forums. The people there are kind. They appreciate that people are people, and need guidance and love. Not to be spanked and sent to the corner. We are not children. Never have I seen such rancor. EVER.

I am here to say there IS hope. IF you want it, fight for it. And if it is difficult, it is a R like any other and we are here if you hurt. And BS's come to the OW forum and rip them to shreds. Deny it if you like, but it is true. I went to the infidelity forum specifically to see what was going on. I posted some harsh reviews. But what I found was that BS's feel exactly the same way we do. And we hate one another. Pathetic. I'll be friendly with anyone who is friendly with me. I wish I had the balls to post the PM's I've rec'd from BS's... I laugh when they call OW despicable.

I'm rambling now. But I will say Miss Bee, I feel you have a grip on things. I always read your posts and appreciate your insight. I hope I haven't offended you. See the posts after you? They are just waiting for a fight. It's sad.

Well I think most people do not offer hope for OW because most of the time A's end badly and the fallout can really mess you up for a lifetime. Same for the BS, hope can be the same thing. Hoping the WS will change, but they don't always do they? I am a fMOW and current BS and I feel A's are wrong because of the amount of devastation they cause. To give someone hope about a situation that is most likely headed towards devastation doesn't seem too wise IMO and neither is trusting the WS for the BS situation.

I do have a question for you so happy together, if your current SO were to have an A how would you feel towards his OW if she were casting you in a negative light? Just curious.

July 22, 2013

Some BS' and OW have men like that. You have to understand these people love to triangulate. They love to pit OW and BS. I would say OW are more common because he can only have one wife. Throughout the course of a marriage, there can be multiple OW. So OW have a higher chance of meeting that man.

These folks always have affairs. They need the adrenaline,honeymoon stage,the rush.

OW are drawn in because they paint the wife as evil,bad . they paint themselves savior of kids. It is the pity that the other woman fall for.

The longer a man can lie and gaslight his wife when he has a mistress or several, the more likely something is seriously wrong.

And it is easy to fool the OW with lies while he goes home and acts the perfect husband to wife.

OW can never really verify what is going on with the marriage and counts on what he tells her.. Half the time, she is afraid to confront the wife because she knows if she calls the wife and confronts to get the truth , mm will stab her in the back.

My father had all his OW believing he was "father of the year". He had them all believing my mother is evil. he had them all believe he was the main bread winner and gave us a lifestyle. Meanwhile, my mother had a great inheritance with land.

He used to try to make me believe my mother was the crazy one even when I was right there. It was as if his cheating,lying,manipulating and abuse was to be ignored.

Her reaction to his behavior was what any normal person's would be. But he thrived on her reaction to prove to others she was crazy.

Meanwhile he was the crazy one,who was just clever enough to put his mask on to OW. Funny thing there were lots of OW who wanted to believe his version.

As for my mother, she has issues also. No matter how sweet and loving she is. Her faith,hope and extreme empathy kept her thinking the man she met who wooed in such an intense way would come back one day.

She does not realize that man never existed. IT WAS A MASK!!!!

As for the OW, they saw an evil side from the beginning. They heard a man who willing to belittle his wife, giving her no credit and taking it all for raising good kids, disrespecting her and willing to spend family money on them. They saw the liar and the cheat. they cannot look back at a time when he was not that.

The OW just believe all the lies and think they are special enough to make him not cheat. Granted, there are men who are in bad marriages and have affairs and leave. But the ones who stay,bad mouth wife,build up affair partner and are disrespectful are a total different breed.

"Pity me, look at me". married to such an evil woman. But I stay for the sake of the children. I am a martyr,"I would not cheat if she was not so horrible! "I will leave one day, but I do not want to upset the shrew wife right now", . They always say watch out for the pity play! # 1 rule!!!

I know it all too well. Grew up with pity play experts and can spot one of these pitiful folks in a heartbeat. Quite easy actually. Just let them talk. they will soon tell you what a horrible spouse they have. What a great parent they are. How they stay for the children. All same song and dance. It's all over this board. They all read from the same script.

Edited July 22, 2013 by jlola

July 23, 2013

I appreciate your insight. I'll take it into consideration. Thank you for being kind about it. I say mine is different when people ask questions about OW being hurt or unhappy. I wasn't. I'm not.

But... I believe even if an OW is only happy right now, and that is what they want, then they should be able to, without having people attack them like someone who cut their arm in the ocean and the sharks are circling, trying to get we OW to run over to the 'Oh my god, we are horrible, should repent and this was the worst decision ever' side... for MOST it is not. They are getting pleasure from the A or it would not be happening. I'm not happy that my R began with an A because I feel sorry for his stbx... but generally speaking, if they are in it, I'll support THE PERSON and be kind.

It's been a really interesting thing for me on this forum. I am a member of other forums. The people there are kind. They appreciate that people are people, and need guidance and love. Not to be spanked and sent to the corner. We are not children. Never have I seen such rancor. EVER.

I am here to say there IS hope. IF you want it, fight for it. And if it is difficult, it is a R like any other and we are here if you hurt. And BS's come to the OW forum and rip them to shreds. Deny it if you like, but it is true. I went to the infidelity forum specifically to see what was going on. I posted some harsh reviews. But what I found was that BS's feel exactly the same way we do. And we hate one another. Pathetic. I'll be friendly with anyone who is friendly with me. I wish I had the balls to post the PM's I've rec'd from BS's... I laugh when they call OW despicable.

I'm rambling now. But I will say Miss Bee, I feel you have a grip on things. I always read your posts and appreciate your insight. I hope I haven't offended you. See the posts after you? They are just waiting for a fight. It's sad.

I'm not offended

I think the problem too is, I think often, the ones who bring up things like attacks and bullying are not the alleged victims themselves, but longstanding members saying it about other members, and a form of infighting, versus it actually being a new OW coming here and feeling this way. I've seen that so many times, where a current "unrepentant OW" is the one who comes into the thread and accuses others of being mean to the OP, even when the OP themselves is thanking people for their advice or participating with no seeming feelings of animosity. Which goes back to the whole idea that sometimes it seems unrepentant OW are on their own crusade which has very little to do with the present issues and as much as they accuse BSs of projecting, they too do the same.

I will of course disagree that an OW should fight for her affair. I believe affairs are usually bad investments so can't in good faith provide hope, but I respect your right to say so and advise that. My only thing, as I explained is, whether OW/BS/fOW...please advise based on the situation presented and not on only what happened for you or what you hope will happen for you, even if it is irrelevant or unlikely based on the OP's story. I think we all have to be conscious of reading into and projecting on to situations, both unrepentant, former and BS, as we ALL do it.

Also...being happy now is fine. But I will always advise OW that most hurtful situations don't start that way, come on...of course not! The woman witht he abusive spouse usually married him not because she loved the abuse, but it started out very differently, but she missed the red flags that could have pointed to problems in the future. Hindsight is 20/20, so nothing is wrong with someone pointing out that their happiness now might be very shortsighted and may not be worth it in the end. But again...it all depends on the situation presented. I don't try to talk happy OW out of their relationships or try to get them to "repent" . I mostly focus on women I see who resemble how I felt when I was in the A and whose situations I feel my own perspective may enrich.

But all in all: affairs are a touchy subject. And unrepentant OW may shout to the moon that it's just a normal relationship...but it's not. It's not in most societies and hence it will always be a highly volatile topic. That's a fact. Therefore, in an open forum like LS, it pretty much reflects that, where it will be hard for some people to leave their biases against affairs aside. I think some "unrepentant OW" are just that...unabashed, rude, like to rub salt in wounds and are just as nasty as they say BSs are and some seem to relish in bashing BSs and competing with them and then so the digs and prodding start and then people push back. BSs aren't saints just because they're BSs and I know some are highly volatile as well. But such is the nature of the affair beast...it will rarely ever be a tea and crumpets and polite exchange between APs and BS....and just like in real life, most times the WS who is in the middle is MIA and it's the OW and BS who are left to duke it out.

I agree that people should be approached with compassion and if we can't do that, on either side, don't bother. However, there are people who think affairs are fundamentally wrong, even though understandable as a human foible, and those people will always fight against the kind of unrepentant OW who acts like it is not a problem, no big deal, just a normal relationship. This will never change. I have read all the way back to the first page of this OW/OM forum and that has always been that way. But yes, if we focus more on the people involved and their issues and choose to bow out when we can't help or it angers us, that's all we can do. And the mods of course are here to help with that. I think only in a closed, OW-only forum will there be a certain level of "kindness", because of commiseration. I think that has its pros and cons. In an open one, it won't have the same level of commiseration, which also has its pros and cons. But yepp a focus on the person as a person helps...

July 23, 2013

Do you feel that you, as OW, have a predilection for being OW, or just being in an affair triangle since you were once involved?

I do. At the time that I was OW, I was OW more than once.

I eventually worked through my personal issues and past experience and didn't want to be OW ever again.

BUT. Then I married a man who turned out to be a serial cheater.

It took me a few years but I'm thinking that ...and I haven't yet found the right words so ...it isn't so much that I had comfort level with infidelity but I had become desensitized to the red flags I should have seen. Shady behavior like a married man texting and talking to another woman...had somehow become my normal.

July 23, 2013

And I can't stress enough how often I see this everywhere. Because I've looked. BS becomes OW. Cheaters cheat again. oW becomes BS.

On and on. There is something to this.

July 23, 2013

And I can't stress enough how often I see this everywhere. Because I've looked. BS becomes OW. Cheaters cheat again. oW becomes BS.

On and on. There is something to this.

Long story short...This! At some point you have to get off of the hamster wheel, or at least be working towards it.

July 23, 2013

I don't think that my R was self destructive to my boyfriend or myself. And the BS was already self destructing and trying to drag my boyfriend down with her. No thanks.

You think I should learn a lesson so that you are happy? Jesus. You know, I'm not even saying I haven't learned things, I just think it's utter bull that you think you can just swoop in and make everyone feel bad. Not your job.

If these boards are filled with pain, it's not only here. It's the BS's side. Even those who are 'happily reconciled'. And just to be clear, there is lots of HAPPINESS too. Trust me. I know the happy ones. The ones that aren't, I'll support as they make whatever decision is best for them.

I don't think you should learn a lesson so that I am happy, but that so you will continue to be. But it's your path to take. My aim is not to make people feel bad, but at least be realistic about affairs and the twists and turns they often take, even in the aftermath.

July 23, 2013

I'm not offended

I think the problem too is, I think often, the ones who bring up things like attacks and bullying are not the alleged victims themselves, but longstanding members saying it about other members, and a form of infighting, versus it actually being a new OW coming here and feeling this way. I've seen that so many times, where a current "unrepentant OW" is the one who comes into the thread and accuses others of being mean to the OP, even when the OP themselves is thanking people for their advice or participating with no seeming feelings of animosity. Which goes back to the whole idea that sometimes it seems unrepentant OW are on their own crusade which has very little to do with the present issues and as much as they accuse BSs of projecting, they too do the same.

I will of course disagree that an OW should fight for her affair. I believe affairs are usually bad investments so can't in good faith provide hope, but I respect your right to say so and advise that. My only thing, as I explained is, whether OW/BS/fOW...please advise based on the situation presented and not on only what happened for you or what you hope will happen for you, even if it is irrelevant or unlikely based on the OP's story. I think we all have to be conscious of reading into and projecting on to situations, both unrepentant, former and BS, as we ALL do it.

Also...being happy now is fine. But I will always advise OW that most hurtful situations don't start that way, come on...of course not! The woman witht he abusive spouse usually married him not because she loved the abuse, but it started out very differently, but she missed the red flags that could have pointed to problems in the future. Hindsight is 20/20, so nothing is wrong with someone pointing out that their happiness now might be very shortsighted and may not be worth it in the end. But again...it all depends on the situation presented. I don't try to talk happy OW out of their relationships or try to get them to "repent" . I mostly focus on women I see who resemble how I felt when I was in the A and whose situations I feel my own perspective may enrich.

But all in all: affairs are a touchy subject. And unrepentant OW may shout to the moon that it's just a normal relationship...but it's not. It's not in most societies and hence it will always be a highly volatile topic. That's a fact. Therefore, in an open forum like LS, it pretty much reflects that, where it will be hard for some people to leave their biases against affairs aside. I think some "unrepentant OW" are just that...unabashed, rude, like to rub salt in wounds and are just as nasty as they say BSs are and some seem to relish in bashing BSs and competing with them and then so the digs and prodding start and then people push back. BSs aren't saints just because they're BSs and I know some are highly volatile as well. But such is the nature of the affair beast...it will rarely ever be a tea and crumpets and polite exchange between APs and BS....and just like in real life, most times the WS who is in the middle is MIA and it's the OW and BS who are left to duke it out.

I agree that people should be approached with compassion and if we can't do that, on either side, don't bother. However, there are people who think affairs are fundamentally wrong, even though understandable as a human foible, and those people will always fight against the kind of unrepentant OW who acts like it is not a problem, no big deal, just a normal relationship. This will never change. I have read all the way back to the first page of this OW/OM forum and that has always been that way. But yes, if we focus more on the people involved and their issues and choose to bow out when we can't help or it angers us, that's all we can do. And the mods of course are here to help with that. I think only in a closed, OW-only forum will there be a certain level of "kindness", because of commiseration. I think that has its pros and cons. In an open one, it won't have the same level of commiseration, which also has its pros and cons. But yepp a focus on the person as a person helps...

Miss Bee, you are one kick a$$ lady!!! Go on wichya bad self!

July 23, 2013

Some BS' and OW have men like that. You have to understand these people love to triangulate. They love to pit OW and BS. I would say OW are more common because he can only have one wife. Throughout the course of a marriage, there can be multiple OW. So OW have a higher chance of meeting that man.

These folks always have affairs. They need the adrenaline,honeymoon stage,the rush.

OW are drawn in because they paint the wife as evil,bad . they paint themselves savior of kids. It is the pity that the other woman fall for.

The longer a man can lie and gaslight his wife when he has a mistress or several, the more likely something is seriously wrong.

And it is easy to fool the OW with lies while he goes home and acts the perfect husband to wife.

OW can never really verify what is going on with the marriage and counts on what he tells her.. Half the time, she is afraid to confront the wife because she knows if she calls the wife and confronts to get the truth , mm will stab her in the back.

My father had all his OW believing he was "father of the year". He had them all believing my mother is evil. he had them all believe he was the main bread winner and gave us a lifestyle. Meanwhile, my mother had a great inheritance with land.

He used to try to make me believe my mother was the crazy one even when I was right there. It was as if his cheating,lying,manipulating and abuse was to be ignored.

Her reaction to his behavior was what any normal person's would be. But he thrived on her reaction to prove to others she was crazy.

Meanwhile he was the crazy one,who was just clever enough to put his mask on to OW. Funny thing there were lots of OW who wanted to believe his version.

As for my mother, she has issues also. No matter how sweet and loving she is. Her faith,hope and extreme empathy kept her thinking the man she met who wooed in such an intense way would come back one day.

She does not realize that man never existed. IT WAS A MASK!!!!

As for the OW, they saw an evil side from the beginning. They heard a man who willing to belittle his wife, giving her no credit and taking it all for raising good kids, disrespecting her and willing to spend family money on them. They saw the liar and the cheat. they cannot look back at a time when he was not that.

The OW just believe all the lies and think they are special enough to make him not cheat. Granted, there are men who are in bad marriages and have affairs and leave. But the ones who stay,bad mouth wife,build up affair partner and are disrespectful are a total different breed.

"Pity me, look at me". married to such an evil woman. But I stay for the sake of the children. I am a martyr,"I would not cheat if she was not so horrible! "I will leave one day, but I do not want to upset the shrew wife right now", . They always say watch out for the pity play! # 1 rule!!!

I know it all too well. Grew up with pity play experts and can spot one of these pitiful folks in a heartbeat. Quite easy actually. Just let them talk. they will soon tell you what a horrible spouse they have. What a great parent they are. How they stay for the children. All same song and dance. It's all over this board. They all read from the same script.

But love, don't you see how this taints your viewpoint? Are some R's like this? Of course. Are they all? Nah. I'm more interested in how this affected your adult R's.

I come from a fam where fidelity is a given. I don't have anyone in my fam. who has cheated. My bf is the same. Completely out of character for both of us, and yet, here we are. Which is how most come to be.

July 23, 2013

I do. At the time that I was OW, I was OW more than once.
I eventually worked through my personal issues and past experience and didn't want to be OW ever again.

BUT. Then I married a man who turned out to be a serial cheater.

It took me a few years but I'm thinking that ...and I haven't yet found the right words so ...it isn't so much that I had comfort level with infidelity but I had become desensitized to the red flags I should have seen. Shady behavior like a married man texting and talking to another woman...had somehow become my normal.

This just tells me that you have not worked through it. And you deserve someone who only wants you. We all do.

July 23, 2013

I don't think you should learn a lesson so that I am happy, but that so you will continue to be. But it's your path to take. My aim is not to make people feel bad, but at least be realistic about affairs and the twists and turns they often take, even in the aftermath.

I really have a hard time believing this.

July 23, 2013

Long story short...This! At some point you have to get off of the hamster wheel, or at least be working towards it.

Really? How many times have you seen Bs NOT become OW? How many times have you NOT seen MM have another affair? How many times have you seen AP become the primary R? I see it often. O-F-T-E-N.

July 23, 2013

Noone knows what's best for everyone. But these boards are filled with pain...lots of lows, and very few highs. So yes, an affair is self destructive. It's destructive to absolutely everyone with an emotional tie to it. Accepting that truth is not the end of the world. If anything it sets a person on the path of healing. And very little shocks me about anyone anymore, lots of people are shocked to learn of the choices I've made. I'm one of those folks that "noone would ever think would do XYZ..." so believe me I get the hidden facets of people that very few see and choose to share or acknowledge.

You can be 100% in love with your affair partner, and still regret the affair, or the circumstances in which it took place, etc. To be unrepentant is to IMO, have learned absolutely nothing and will certainly speed one along the path to a repeat in circumstances. That is one reason why are you are so happy (relieved?) that your MM DOES regret having an affair and not leaving his marriage before reuniting with you, correct?

I'm not trying to make the fact you are in love a negative. Everyone's goal should be to be happy. To get there at the expense of others though, is a goal noone should want or be comfortable to accept.

I find this post by someone that married and is married to their AP to be very interesting and quite hypocritical. How do you reconcile that you "benefited" from your affair but then denounce them carte blanche with others?

I have never been a cheerleader of affairs, I have always said that that it is like playing Russian Roulette, but I also am understanding and sympathetic towards those that are in them though I am less so to the MP because I have walked those steps and understand the hows and whys and how avoidable things can be. BUT I am not presumptuous to take a 180 stance on them, denouncing them across the board, when I myself have benefited greatly from having had one. How can I do that towards others when I did not walk the talk? It just seems so convenient and almost like the means justifying the end and suddenly there is this clean slate.

Because I married my AP, I don't feel I have the right to be reformed. I have to be humble about the beginning, owning all the pieces of it, but I don't feel I have the right to denounce them. And my purpose is to support others. I do believe that there are some very happy people in affairs. It wasn't a lifestyle choice that would have worked for me but I can take the leap that it works for others. I support the individual in them, especially the OP, and ask them questions to get them to where they can achieve their happiness, whatever route that is.

Maybe I am just a simple thinker, but I have a hard time hating affairs when I wake up next to this lovely man every day and I get to see his smiling face. How can I hate affairs when my heart literally melts when I look in his eyes and know that he is my husband? To be here, today, means I have to trace the line back to the beginning. Today wouldn't happen without yesterday and yesterday is a fact that is never going away.

July 23, 2013

Despite all protests to the contrary, an affair is very much woven into the foundation of an AP and WS relationship, and yes the actions of dishonesty are threaded in too even if that dishonesty was towards someone else. You cannot seperate those actions from the person. Bottom line is, for whatever reason, they chose that dishonest behavior.

That can be said of anyone who has ever cheated on their tax return, been less than honest on their golf scorecard, pulled a sicky to get a day off work, or made an excuse to get out of an appointment they did not want to keep. Those people chose that dishonest behaviour. Some, repeatedly, with impunity. And by the logic above, any R those people embarked on would be founded on dishonesty with dishonest actions threaded throughout, even of the dishonesty was toward someone else.

But I guess some people find cognitive dissonance easier to accept when it's their own.

I would like to ask, why is it that the OWs turned Wives or long term partners continue to frequent this forum in support of affairs?

I can't speak for those who do what you describe, but I am here not to support As but to support those in them, to provide a diversity of views to offset the cookie-cutter responses that insist that ALL As are this or that, that ALL OW are this or that, that ALL MM are this or that, or that all BW are this or that. I prefer to focus on the specific person in their specific situation, rather than wave a flag for a team. I've never been one for team sports anyway.

Isn't it counterproductive to support the type of behavior you are now attempting to seperate yourselves from, and are loathe to think could now enter you and your APs now primary relationships?

Again, I cannot speak for those who do this; personally I have never "attempted to separate myself" from the A period of my R. I own it, do not deny it, am quite open about it and have no interest in trying to rewrite history. Nor am I "loathe to think it could enter our M". I am quite aware of the risks and the conditions that could lead to either one of us becoming vulnerable to the temptation of an A, I have no need to stick my head in the sand and deny those. But that does not translate into my becoming reactionary reformed and denouncing what once worked very well for me, simply because I might in turn be on the receiving end. OTC, if our M is not strong enough to withstand an OW or OM hitting on my H or me then the M is at fault, not the OW / OM. I have no quarrel with OW / OM just because I am now M. Having successfully transitioned an A to an M I have insights and experiences to share that may be of use to some and I see them not as a threat but as other people, willing to share and learn from others.

Perhaps someone who more closely fits the description might chime in, if they exist?

July 23, 2013

I got pregnant when I was sixteen years old. I love my son to pieces, the sun rises and sets on him, the world is a better place because of him, etc. However being a teenager with a baby was hard, being poor and raising my kid in poverty was hard, seeing him not be able to do the things that other kids did was hard, seeing him hurt because he didn't have a father that loved him was hard. It was hard on me and surely even harder on him. Because his immature teenage mother made the stupid choice to get herself knocked up and keep her baby. My son is an adult now. I look at him and my heart swells with love. I would never say that I regret ever having him or that I wish I wasn't his mom. Never! However how do you think I feel about teen pregnancy? Given that it put me on a long road to overcoming all of the obstacles in my path and knowing that my beautiful son had to pay a price too. I'm perfectly okay with saying I love my son and I hate teen pregnancy. Doesn't make me feel like a hypocrite at all.

It's called learning and wisdom. Just because someone makes a wrong decision, learns from it and turns it around, it doesn't make them a hypocrite when they caution others from making the same incorrect choices they did.

I don't feel my decision was 'wrong'. Sorry.

July 23, 2013

it doesn't make them a hypocrite when they caution others from making the same incorrect choices they did.

That's where I have an issue.

I chose not to terminate my pregnancy, as a teenager. That was the CORRECT choice. It might not be for everyone, I might suggest to another teenager that they need to think very carefully and it's the biggest decision they'll ever make, and that it has lifelong repercussions etc etc etc. But telling them it's wrong (or 'incorrect') just doesn't work for me.

July 23, 2013

I realize that what I am saying is not being received kindly by many who are AP turned wives or significant others, It's not the most cheerful message to hear, especially when the rose colored glasses of your own romances have not yet come off, thus the accusations of not being in a position to understand, and then when it was revealed I was married to my AP, now a hypocrite. I get it. I do. But it doesn't change the reality of what I'm saying.

My own relationship did not come about without personal consequences, and consequences to others, and that is what I've come to regret, the circumstances which it came about, not the relationship itself. Alexandria's analogy summed it up very nicely. I get the feeling that those of you who quoted me with angry or disdainful responses see my abandonment of being "pro affair" as some sort of betrayal to the "affair club." I gladly turned in my card a long time ago, unfortunately lingering consequences still remain. I also understand the love you all feel for your now husbands and partners, why in the world wouldn't I? When you've gone through so much in an affair and finally you and your partner get to be together...of course you are ecstatic! I love my husband dearly, even after EVERYTHING we have gone through at this point.

But in the interest of preserving that love and growing, lessons need to be learned, and truths about the steps that you took to get there acknowledged. It's not that I got what I wanted by being in an affair, and then stepped away and started pointing the finger at other affairs...I just came full circle a long time ago and now see how not being accountable or remorseful for hurting others and engaging in dishonorable behavior plants a negative seed in the soil of your relationship. Sometimes it takes a while to take root, but unless plucked up, that seed will grow.

July 23, 2013

I think you kind of missed my point. It wasn't that we should tell people what to do or what is right for them. I was simply expressing that one is not a hypocrite just because they don't support others in making the same decisions they made. I would caution any teenager against getting pregnant. If I met a pregnant teenager, I would be honest with them about what they are facing as young single teenage mom and what their child may be facing. I would be honest with them about the things that were hard for me and hard for my kid. That wouldn't make me a hypocrite just because I survived and I love my son. My response was really directed at Got it's post stating that it's hypocritical for one to say they love their affair partner and also say they hate affairs. I was simply stating how it's possible to love someone but not love the way the relationship came about. I wasn't talking about making choices for other people. Thanks for your thoughts though.

I only commented because you called it an 'incorrect choice'.

Yet you don't regret it.

July 23, 2013

You know, I don't regret any of my life decisions. I learned from them whether they were positive or negative. I like who I am, and I just don't regret. I wouldn't be who I am without those experiences.

July 23, 2013

Well I think most people do not offer hope for OW because most of the time A's end badly and the fallout can really mess you up for a lifetime. Same for the BS, hope can be the same thing. Hoping the WS will change, but they don't always do they? I am a fMOW and current BS and I feel A's are wrong because of the amount of devastation they cause. To give someone hope about a situation that is most likely headed towards devastation doesn't seem too wise IMO and neither is trusting the WS for the BS situation.

I do have a question for you so happy together, if your current SO were to have an A how would you feel towards his OW if she were casting you in a negative light? Just curious.

As I've stated previously, as hypocritical as it seems, I would not stay with someone who cheated on me. I would feel that if that person felt they needed someone else, I would end the relationship and let us both find someone who suits us. At which point I would not care what they said about me because it would no longer be part of my reality.

July 23, 2013

I got pregnant when I was sixteen years old. I love my son to pieces, the sun rises and sets on him, the world is a better place because of him, etc. However being a teenager with a baby was hard, being poor and raising my kid in poverty was hard, seeing him not be able to do the things that other kids did was hard, seeing him hurt because he didn't have a father that loved him was hard. It was hard on me and surely even harder on him. Because his immature teenage mother made the stupid choice to get herself knocked up and keep her baby. My son is an adult now. I look at him and my heart swells with love. I would never say that I regret ever having him or that I wish I wasn't his mom. Never! However how do you think I feel about teen pregnancy? Given that it put me on a long road to overcoming all of the obstacles in my path and knowing that my beautiful son had to pay a price too. I'm perfectly okay with saying I love my son and I hate teen pregnancy. Doesn't make me feel like a hypocrite at all.

It's called learning and wisdom. Just because someone makes a wrong decision, learns from it and turns it around, it doesn't make them a hypocrite when they caution others from making the same incorrect choices they did.

The statement "I hate teenage pregnancy" is an all encompassing and very general dismissal of it.

I understand you point and breaking down the reasons, showing but the positive and the negative that came out of it, and THAT is my stance on how I discuss my affairs and affairs in general. Do you really hate teen pregnancy because there are some married 19 year olds whom get pregnant it is not an issue, they raise a family, etc.

I say, it is a very risky coping mechanism, that it is like playing russian roulette and that at some point things are very likely to explode. That it can have a host of issues, yada, yada, yada. That it is a very risky endeavor on both sides and for the OW this is what you need to worry about . . . . . . for the MP these are your risks . . . . . . . What my experience was, what I wish I could do differently, what consequences we are still living with, etc.

I will go over the host of concerns. But I find it would be disingenuous of me to say "I hate affairs. Sure I had one, married the guy, but I hate them". It is too swiping of a statement, for me, to get to the root of my actually feelings on it.

July 23, 2013

Are people not allowed to embrace their choices but still advocate against them as a whole? That's what I took from Alexandria, and would agree with the point. It doesn't matter if there are, for example, some 19 year olds who don't have an issue with their teen pregnancies, you can still be weary of them.

July 23, 2013

Are people not allowed to embrace their choices but still advocate against them as a whole?

Of course they're allowed! But they have no grounds when people call them out on their hypocrisy, is all.

July 23, 2013

I find this post by someone that married and is married to their AP to be very interesting and quite hypocritical. How do you reconcile that you "benefited" from your affair but then denounce them carte blanche with others?

I have never been a cheerleader of affairs, I have always said that that it is like playing Russian Roulette, but I also am understanding and sympathetic towards those that are in them though I am less so to the MP because I have walked those steps and understand the hows and whys and how avoidable things can be. BUT I am not presumptuous to take a 180 stance on them, denouncing them across the board, when I myself have benefited greatly from having had one. How can I do that towards others when I did not walk the talk? It just seems so convenient and almost like the means justifying the end and suddenly there is this clean slate.

Because I married my AP, I don't feel I have the right to be reformed. I have to be humble about the beginning, owning all the pieces of it, but I don't feel I have the right to denounce them. And my purpose is to support others. I do believe that there are some very happy people in affairs. It wasn't a lifestyle choice that would have worked for me but I can take the leap that it works for others. I support the individual in them, especially the OP, and ask them questions to get them to where they can achieve their happiness, whatever route that is.

Maybe I am just a simple thinker, but I have a hard time hating affairs when I wake up next to this lovely man every day and I get to see his smiling face. How can I hate affairs when my heart literally melts when I look in his eyes and know that he is my husband? To be here, today, means I have to trace the line back to the beginning. Today wouldn't happen without yesterday and yesterday is a fact that is never going away.

This makes no sense to me....

Good coming out of a bad situation doesn't render the situation itself good, although understandable, in the sense that, "if that didn't happen, I wouldn't have met my SO."

If you were raped and it produced your child, or in an abusive relationship, but you had your children with that man, or name any other bad situation, in which something good came out of it, why would it make sense that you see rape or abuse as good things now, versus just seeing how, in spite of them, there was a silver lining? Would it make sense to say "I can't see rape as a bad thing when I stare into my baby boy's eyes?" No one would say that...as their beautiful child which came from that situation did not all of a sudden render the situation/rape itself a good thing. I think it seems sometimes that some in affairs believe in accepting the baby and the bath water, as in, if they found happiness As then are good and can't be faulted. While others, like myself, believe you can throw out the bath water, and leave the baby, i.e. embrace your happy outcome, no need to be ashamed of it, but you don't have to all of a sudden value affairs themselves as an enterprise and feel indebted to an affair and praise it as a good thing.

I think that is the difference in the line of thinking: some see certain results as a good that came in spite of, and not because of.

I frankly think the term "reformed" is...cute. It implies this was some lifestyle choice or philosophy one espoused, then denounced, when in fact only the "unrepentant" seem to genuinely choose this as some great life choice it seems so seem to project on to others that we felt as they did but changed our minds and "reformed". I'm sorry, but although I participated in an affair, at no point did I think it was a good thing. Hence, I was never a "good OW" or "happy OW", as I always felt conflicted and never adopted an attitude of how great it is because I love him etc. Therefore, I didn't "reform", as it was NEVER something I chose as a solid life choice then suddenly denounced. Even if I had married my AP, my stance would be: don't think it's a great thing to do at all, even though this happened for me.

I'm a mentor for undergrads, and there are lots of things I did that I wouldn't advise them to do, even though it may have worked for me, or something good came out of it incidentally, it's not hypocritical, it's becoming older, and wiser and seeing in hindsight the pitfalls I couldn't see while embedded in the situation. If as a parent I snorted cocaine at 16, and because of my drug using life, my coke dealer became my boyfriend, who then became my husband, and we both cleaned up our act after he went to jail for a while, and now I have my children and we have a great life, am I a hypocrite for denouncing drugs and telling my child, or forget child, a friend of mine who is an adult, that I would stay far away from cocaine? Hypocrite or traveling a tumultuous road and seeing a better way/seeing the pitfalls? A hypocrite IMO is one who pretends they NEVER had an affair and hides their marriage was from an affair and bashes those having one, not one who admits to it, but says they wouldn't recommend it to others. Because the tumultuous road smoothed out eventually, drug use and jail time are rendered irrelevant and now ONLY the silver lining counts as a basis for recommending a certain course of action? It makes sense to tell others to bet on that off chance that maybe they won't become an addict like I didn't, maybe they won't go to jail, maybe they will end up marrying their supplier. We all make mistakes, sometimes we do stuff that sheer luck prevented us from crashing and burning, or we get surprised and something good comes out of it, that said, it's quite different to then advise others based on that. You say As are Russian Roulette....why advise someone to play a foolhardy game? I have a very hard time understanding how others don't differentiate between silver lining and good in spite of, from a course of action being wise and a good investment.

Edited July 23, 2013 by MissBee

July 23, 2013

Of course they're allowed! But they have no grounds when people call them out on their hypocrisy, is all.

No grounds for...?

**MissBee, once again, sums it up much more eloquently than I!

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