Do you think MM/MW would cheat on you if you were in the same boat as the BS?

July 22, 2013

Miss Bee,

Is your xmm still with his BS? I'm sorry, I don't know your bckground very well...

He wasn't married and nope, they're no longer together.

July 22, 2013

Do you think your MM/MW would cheat on you if your relationship was in the same boat as their relationship with the BS is (i.e. sexless, loveless, like roommates, staying because of obligations, etc.)?

If yes, why? Would you try to prevent cheating from occurring? Do you think MM/MW would ultimately choose to stay with you over ending the relationship?

If not, why? How is your relationship with MM/MW different from their relationship with the BS?

Replies from former APs and BSs also welcome.

Yes, I believe xMM would cheat on me if we were M with the same issues. He cheats because of a number of reasons none of which make it right.

I don't believe one can prevent cheating. But I would make his life a living hell once I found out.

He would ultimately choose to remain M and cheat once in a while. He would stay M while in love with someone else. I would be pissed and probably D but that is assuming I know what's going on (which BW may or may not).

July 22, 2013

It is NOTHING like a reconciling couple, a couple who is reconciling, at least at one point had a relationship that had a honest foundation and beginning. A couple formed from an affair does not have a foundation built on honesty and transparency, the very nature of the relationship is built on deceiving someone else.

While I can't speak for anyone else, our R was certainly built on honesty and transparency. If you're going to consider " a R" to include all the other incidental dealings one or the other partner may have outside of the R as "part of the R", I'm sure you'd have to exclude many couples - reconciling or otherwise - that had not started out as an A because the W may have told an untruth to her mother at some point, or the H may have created at a game of squash, or the W may have been less than forthcoming on her tax return....

A R is between the two people in it. I don't include the neighbours, the postman, colleagues or former partners when I delineate my R, so why should his xW feature as part of our foundation any more than the guy I shagged back in high school? She was never part of our R, and while she may once have been part of his life, she was never part of mine and never impinged on what we wanted or did.

July 22, 2013

He wasn't married and nope, they're no longer together.

Gotcha. Thanks Bee.

July 22, 2013

Mm would have cheated no matter what state any relationship was in. It's called a serial cheater. I don't believe all his lies that he wasn't sleeping with his w, that he slept on the couch, that they were just roommates..etc. it's all lies. Would I try to prevent it if I were with him. Well yes but my means of preventing would be illegal. Also if I knew what I knew now and had put all the puzzle pieces together I wouldn't want him anyhow.

Our relationship was different because it was an A. Affairs are fantasy. I was the escape from mundane life. I didn't represent financial responsibility or any of the hard life bumps in the road. There is no way to compare my relationship with him to hers.

Very true, xMM would cheat on me as well. He cheated on his wife even when things were good, during their early married years. He was always saying that he didn't want to be confined or be treated like a dog on a leash.

The A was a fantasy. And lucky for me, I didn't have to bear the brunt of sharing financial issues w him, as he has no concept of paying bills on time or even paying them at all. He's had vehicles repossessed and most recently nearly lost his house. He has/makes good money but just uses poor judgement when it comes to paying bills.

So if we were to b together as man and wife, in addition to being cheated on, I could also expect our checks to bounce and bills not to get paid.

July 22, 2013

Despite all protests to the contrary, an affair is very much woven into the foundation of an AP and WS relationship, and yes the actions of dishonesty are threaded in too even if that dishonesty was towards someone else. You cannot seperate those actions from the person. Bottom line is, for whatever reason, they chose that dishonest behavior.

I would like to ask, why is it that the OWs turned Wives or long term partners continue to frequent this forum in support of affairs? Isn't it counterproductive to support the type of behavior you are now attempting to seperate yourselves from, and are loathe to think could now enter you and your APs now primary relationships?

July 22, 2013

Despite all protests to the contrary, an affair is very much woven into the foundation of an AP and WS relationship, and yes the actions of dishonesty are threaded in too even if that dishonesty was towards someone else. You cannot seperate those actions from the person. Bottom line is, for whatever reason, they chose that dishonest behavior.

I would like to ask, why is it that the OWs turned Wives or long term partners continue to frequent this forum in support of affairs? Isn't it counterproductive to support the type of behavior you are now attempting to seperate yourselves from, and are loathe to think could now enter you and your APs now primary relationships?

People who have turned wives or long term partners are still on this forum because they have insight into the relationships and can be of service. Why do people that are 'happily reconciled' continue to go to the infidelity forum?

My relationship is not classified as long term, we've been together... hell, 20 months. He left his marriage seven months ago. But I can still be helpful to others who are in the throes of the A. Who need advice or just someone to listen.

There are those on this (and other) forums who have been a tremendous help and support to me. I would have crumbled without their help in seeing my relationship in a proper light.

And while I am not actively in an affair anymore, I will never deny how it began. It is part of our story. Also, for a lot of OW dishonesty is not woven into anything. For A LOT of us, it is the first time for our MM/MW to have the opportunity to be honest and open about everything in their life. You don't understand. I get it. But that is still our reality whether you understand or not.

July 22, 2013

My guess is they do it because they want to remind everyone on here that not all A's are products of sociopath/addict behavior. In many cases, an A is simply a case of re-coupling---it's just that the WS didn't tie up loose ends and lay to rest the former relationship. It does happen, you know. Life doesn't always happen in neatly tied up packages... Sometimes you have kids before you're ready, buy the new house before you sell the old one, lose the job without a new one on the horizon. In some cases, an A is a transition. A rough and rocky one, but a transition nonetheless. On LS, the party line is too absolute, IMO.

Some M's really ARE a case of beating a dead horse, but the WS stays out of a sense of duty. An A is a sucky betrayal for the BS in a dead marriage, however, I don't think it should be THAT surprising if your M is fraught with millions of problems. Thinking that all can be solved by talking or MC is to give wayyy too much credit to those things. "You can't force beauty." Sometimes the sanest thing is to just let go.

^^^^^ . This was definitely us.

And it pisses me off when people refer to affairs as a drug. As addictive behavior. Ridiculous. If that is the case, EVERY relationship is addictive behavior at it's finest.

Edited July 22, 2013 by So happy together

July 22, 2013

I do understand what its like to survive an affair and come out on the other side with an AP, from a former WS angle, anyway. What I don't understand is the continuing rationalizations and justifications that take place afterwards. Its this attitude of "oh well they're marriage was dead anyway. Can't or won't happen to us." That really mystifies me. I guess part of it is self protectiveness and optimism and that part makes sense as human nature.

July 22, 2013

I do understand what its like to survive an affair and come out on the other side with an AP, from a former WS angle, anyway. What I don't understand is the continuing rationalizations and justifications that take place afterwards. Its this attitude of "oh well they're marriage was dead anyway. Can't or won't happen to us." That really mystifies me. I guess part of it is self protectiveness and optimism and that part makes sense as human nature.

Well, for me, saying the marriage was dead is not a justification, it is a simple point of fact.

July 22, 2013

As OW, I knew that if he wasnt cheating with me , he would still be cheating.

So it makes sense for me to have known if he was with me he would still be cheating.

Thats why I didnt want him.

July 22, 2013

As OW, I knew that if he wasnt cheating with me , he would still be cheating.

So it makes sense for me to have known if he was with me he would still be cheating.

Thats why I didnt want him.

Do you feel that you, as OW, have a predilection for being OW, or just being in an affair triangle since you were once involved?

July 22, 2013

Despite all protests to the contrary, an affair is very much woven into the foundation of an AP and WS relationship, and yes the actions of dishonesty are threaded in too even if that dishonesty was towards someone else. You cannot seperate those actions from the person. Bottom line is, for whatever reason, they chose that dishonest behavior.

I would like to ask, why is it that the OWs turned Wives or long term partners continue to frequent this forum in support of affairs? Isn't it counterproductive to support the type of behavior you are now attempting to seperate yourselves from, and are loathe to think could now enter you and your APs now primary relationships?

Why do you frequent the boards?

Unless you have actually been an AP or a WS that turned into a marriage I really don't think you can speak on the above with any sort of actual knowledge or experience. Again, being someone who is actually walking the talk, I don't agree.

Why am I here? Because I want to be. Because I don't agree that I know need to campaign or support/not support any type of relationship. I am here to speak from experience, to offer insight based on the path I have walked and to offer advice based on said experience.

My job is not to tell others how to live their lives, how they should think, feel or act.

Why shouldn't I support people who are in affairs? I am sympathetic to the OW/OM, I have walked the path of the WS so I have less sympathy but more real time experience, and I think that affairs are a fact of life that unfortunately do happen. I have never cheerleaded for them, I am not universally supportive of affairs in general as I don't think it is the best solution, but I support the individuals.

So to turn the tables, why are you here? Why are there so many BS here after amazing reconciliations?

I am sorry but you have a very linear black and white approach to people that I do not share. So I disagree with your continuing premise on affairs and those in them.

July 22, 2013

Why do you frequent the boards?

Unless you have actually been an AP or a WS that turned into a marriage I really don't think you can speak on the above with any sort of actual knowledge or experience. Again, being someone who is actually walking the talk, I don't agree.

Why am I here? Because I want to be. Because I don't agree that I know need to campaign or support/not support any type of relationship. I am here to speak from experience, to offer insight based on the path I have walked and to offer advice based on said experience.

My job is not to tell others how to live their lives, how they should think, feel or act.

Why shouldn't I support people who are in affairs? I am sympathetic to the OW/OM, I have walked the path of the WS so I have less sympathy but more real time experience, and I think that affairs are a fact of life that unfortunately do happen. I have never cheerleaded for them, I am not universally supportive of affairs in general as I don't think it is the best solution, but I support the individuals.

So to turn the tables, why are you here? Why are there so many BS here after amazing reconciliations?

I am sorry but you have a very linear black and white approach to people that I do not share. So I disagree with your continuing premise on affairs and those in them.

Its only through much, much, trial and error that I've come to the conclusion of taking a "black and white" stance on affairs. I've been on all sides of an affair at different points in my life. I've been a BS, OW, and WS. I'm currently married to my ex AP. We've been together 10 years...

I'm sharing all this to say that at one point I DID the whole justification and rationalization thing. I was in fact" the Queen of it. Its only been through lots of introspection and facing hard truths about life that have led me to what you feel is a linear approach. Sometimes the road less traveled is the best route to take.

As far as why I frequent the boards,I'm here to learn and support and be supported. But I won't lie or sugarcoat to someone making a self destructive choice. I also won't lie to myself to rationalize why my circumstances are unique,: rare":and invincible from consequences of my own behavior. So when I see others who exhibit the behaviors I rescued myself from, I do point it out.

Edited July 22, 2013 by HopingAgain

July 22, 2013

Its only through much, much, trial and error that I've come to the conclusion of taking a "black and white" stance on affairs. I've been on all sides of an affair at different points in my life. I've been a BS, OW, and WS. I'm currently married to my ex AP. We've been together 10 years...

I'm sharing all this to say that at one point" I DID the whole justification and rationalization thing. I was in fact" the Queen of it. Its only been through lots of introspection and facing hard truths about life that have led me to what you feel is a linear approach. Sometimes the road less traveled is the best route to take.
As far as why I frequent the boards,I'm here to learn and support and be supported. But I won't lie or sugarcoat to someone making a self destructive choice. I also won't lie to myself to rationalize why my circumstances are unique,: rare":and invincible from consequences of my own behavior. So when I see others who exhibit the behaviors I rescued myself from, I do point it out.

It is my humble opinion that you do not know what is best for everyone. You know what is best for you, and you can give your opinion, but that certainly doesn't make anyone else's life choices wrong or destructive. I mean really, think it through... you only know the tiny sliver of the lives of these people that they show you. You'd be shocked at the things you don't know. So please. If you are here to swoop everyone into a single net and make them a cookie cutter replica, you've made a grave error.

People say I am an unrepentant OW. In a lot of respects I am because (and I am literally getting teary saying this), I am the happiest I have ever been. I have never had a love like this in my life, except the love I share with my children. Never, ever will I regret this. If he left me today, I would still cherish this time.

Don't ever try to make MY love life a negative relationship. I am in love. And I am loved. Wholly. I couldn't ask for a better, sweeter, more loving partner and I would do anything for him.

July 22, 2013

It is my humble opinion that you do not know what is best for everyone. You know what is best for you, and you can give your opinion, but that certainly doesn't make anyone else's life choices wrong or destructive. I mean really, think it through... you only know the tiny sliver of the lives of these people that they show you. You'd be shocked at the things you don't know. So please. If you are here to swoop everyone into a single net and make them a cookie cutter replica, you've made a grave error.

People say I am an unrepentant OW. In a lot of respects I am because (and I am literally getting teary saying this), I am the happiest I have ever been. I have never had a love like this in my life, except the love I share with my children. Never, ever will I regret this. If he left me today, I would still cherish this time.

Don't ever try to make MY love life a negative relationship. I am in love. And I am loved. Wholly. I couldn't ask for a better, sweeter, more loving partner and I would do anything for him.

Noone knows what's best for everyone. But these boards are filled with pain...lots of lows, and very few highs. So yes, an affair is self destructive. It's destructive to absolutely everyone with an emotional tie to it. Accepting that truth is not the end of the world. If anything it sets a person on the path of healing. And very little shocks me about anyone anymore, lots of people are shocked to learn of the choices I've made. I'm one of those folks that "noone would ever think would do XYZ..." so believe me I get the hidden facets of people that very few see and choose to share or acknowledge.

You can be 100% in love with your affair partner, and still regret the affair, or the circumstances in which it took place, etc. To be unrepentant is to IMO, have learned absolutely nothing and will certainly speed one along the path to a repeat in circumstances. That is one reason why are you are so happy (relieved?) that your MM DOES regret having an affair and not leaving his marriage before reuniting with you, correct?

I'm not trying to make the fact you are in love a negative. Everyone's goal should be to be happy. To get there at the expense of others though, is a goal noone should want or be comfortable to accept.

July 22, 2013

Do you think MM/MW would cheat on you if you were in the same boat as the BS?

No, I don't. I think if we end up together he wouldn't entertain the idea of doing that. Seems silly to say, and if someone else said this to me I'd probably internally roll my eyes. But for me and my situation, I believe he would never do that.

I too, would never, ever, ever, EVER, have another affair. The highs do not outweigh the lows and I feel I have ruined the lives of so many people. I would never do this to myself or others ever again. Ever. Ever.

July 22, 2013

It is my humble opinion that you do not know what is best for everyone. You know what is best for you, and you can give your opinion, but that certainly doesn't make anyone else's life choices wrong or destructive. I mean really, think it through... you only know the tiny sliver of the lives of these people that they show you. You'd be shocked at the things you don't know. So please. If you are here to swoop everyone into a single net and make them a cookie cutter replica, you've made a grave error.

People say I am an unrepentant OW. In a lot of respects I am because (and I am literally getting teary saying this), I am the happiest I have ever been. I have never had a love like this in my life, except the love I share with my children. Never, ever will I regret this. If he left me today, I would still cherish this time.

Don't ever try to make MY love life a negative relationship. I am in love. And I am loved. Wholly. I couldn't ask for a better, sweeter, more loving partner and I would do anything for him.

If I can, I think the point of conflict which often arises, is indeed one of what is best for you versus everyone.

I think in more cases than not, affairs generally don't pan out well for those involved, esp if they want more than an affair. On both LS and other forums more sympathetic to affairs, I've seen it work out about the same. You have a few who are probably genuinely happy or who transitioned, and the rest are in turmoil or still hoping.

I think that sometimes "unrepentant" or "happy OW" seem to want to make a point of their affair not being the same, and sometimes in that attempt, it seems like they ignore posters who are the exact opposite/the rule, it's almost as though they have a fear of admitting most affairs won't work out, and try to downplay the reality of most As to bolster theirs. I think this is what Hope or others don't understand, that if your A worked for you, why does it become a case of "not all As are the same" instead of a case of "While mine wasn't like that, I do know for many it is hurtful." I think sometimes it comes off as though "unrepentant OW" ignore at all cost that most As don't work out, esp if working out means transitioning to an open A, and cannot simultaneously appreciate their own outcome while admitting that. I guess the conflict is one of: are you the rule or are you the exception and if you are in the few, how should you give advice in light of that? I think unrepentant OW often accuse those less sympathetic of affairs of gloom and doom and giving OW a bad picture...but reality: most OW already come to LS with their own tumultuous stories and people advise them based on the facts they present and the likely outcome based on that...and in truth I haven't seen too many cases where the OW came back to say everyone was wrong. Usually there are more cases of "I told you so." I also think many who'd consider themselves unrepentant, often seem to have no advice to offer OW who want advice, but waltz into a thread just to say their A wasn't like that and to argue about their own relationship with other members, instead of supporting the person currently asking for advice. I see this ALL the time..where an unrepentant woman turns every thread into a rehashing of how wonderful her relationship is...when that is so far from the point and like you mentioned, I'd also say to such a person: what is good for YOU isn't necessarily good for everyone else, and have you even stopped to look at the OP's situation before saying how wonderful your A is??

I have seen where the OP is asking for advice, it's not a discussion thread, and "unrepentant OW" seem sometimes to want to silence unhappy OW with tales of their success or do behave like just because the A was good for them it will be good for the other person too. I am sure some will disagree, which is fine, but I see affairs like smoking. It comes with a Surgeon General's warning because as a rule, it's not a good thing and can be destructive to your health and well-being. Adults are free to choose it, at their own risk and I think nothing is wrong with pointing out the risks. Like smoking, some may do it for years and years and live a long, healthy, wonderful life, where they never see any negative side effects or only minimal...many others end up with emphysema, smoker's lips, smoker's teeth, lung cancer. Should a person who smoked all their life advise other people who come to a forum struggling with smoking that they did it for 40 years and it was fine, they can, but I think if they said it was simply a lifestyle choice and is perfectly healthy, that would be a stretch. It's not healthy, as a rule it's destructive, and those who come out unscathed are the exception. I think people need to advise with those realities in mind, and I totally agree that we cannot use simply our own experience or what worked for us to advise, without taking into consideration what is the rule and what generally happens. I don't think it's fair for any poster not to read the situation and just advise blindly. I do think some people don't actually try to advise on the specifics but do make some overblown or blanket statements...I see it. I disagree with that. But it's not only BSs or "reformed OW" who do this, but the unrepentant do it as well. I think good and balanced advice takes into consideration the rule, what normally happens and the specifics of the person's situation presented and what seems likely based on that.

Edited July 22, 2013 by MissBee

July 22, 2013

If I can, I think the point of conflict which often arises, is indeed one of what is best for you versus everyone.

I think in more cases than not, affairs generally don't pan out well for those involved, esp if they want more than an affair. On both LS and other forums more sympathetic to affairs, I've seen it work out about the same. You have a few who are probably genuinely happy or who transitioned, and the rest are in turmoil or still hoping.

I think that sometimes "unrepentant" or "happy OW" seem to want to make a point of their affair not being the same, and sometimes in that attempt, it seems like they ignore posters who are the exact opposite/the rule, it's almost as though they have a fear of admitting most affairs won't work out, and try to downplay the reality of most As to bolster theirs. I think this is what Hope or others don't understand, that if your A worked for you, why does it become a case of "not all As are the same" instead of a case of "While mine wasn't like that, I do know for many it is hurtful." I think sometimes it comes off as though "unrepentant OW" ignore at all cost that most As don't work out, esp if working out means transitioning to an open A, and cannot simultaneously appreciate their own outcome while admitting that. I guess the conflict is one of: are you the rule or are you the exception and if you are in the few, how should you give advice in light of that? I think unrepentant OW often accuse those less sympathetic of affairs of gloom and doom and giving OW a bad picture...but reality: most OW already come to LS with their own tumultuous stories and people advise them based on the facts they present and the likely outcome based on that...and in truth I haven't seen too many cases where the OW came back to say everyone was wrong. Usually there are more cases of "I told you so." I also think many who'd consider themselves unrepentant, often seem to have no advice to offer OW who want advice, but waltz into a thread just to say their A wasn't like that and to argue about their own relationship with other members, instead of supporting the person currently asking for advice. I see this ALL the time..where an unrepentant woman turns every thread into a rehashing of how wonderful her relationship is...when that is so far from the point and like you mentioned, I'd also say to such a person: what is good for YOU isn't necessarily good for everyone else, and have you even stopped to look at the OP's situation before saying how wonderful your A is??

I have seen where the OP is asking for advice, it's not a discussion thread, and "unrepentant OW" seem sometimes to want to silence unhappy OW with tales of their success or do behave like just because the A was good for them it will be good for the other person too. I am sure some will disagree, which is fine, but I see affairs like smoking. It comes with a Surgeon General's warning because as a rule, it's not a good thing and can be destructive to your health and well-being. Adults are free to choose it, at their own risk and I think nothing is wrong with pointing out the risks. Like smoking, some may do it for years and years and live a long, healthy, wonderful life, where they never see any negative side effects or only minimal...many others end up with emphysema, smoker's lips, smoker's teeth, lung cancer. Should a person who smoked all their life advise other people who come to a forum struggling with smoking that they did it for 40 years and it was fine, they can, but I think if they said it was simply a lifestyle choice and is perfectly healthy, that would be a stretch. It's not healthy, as a rule it's destructive, and those who come out unscathed are the exception. I think people need to advise with those realities in mind, and I totally agree that we cannot use simply our own experience or what worked for us to advise, without taking into consideration what is the rule and what generally happens. I don't think it's fair for any poster not to read the situation and just advise blindly. I do think some people don't actually try to advise on the specifics but do make some overblown or blanket statements...I see it. I disagree with that. But it's not only BSs or "reformed OW" who do this, but the unrepentant do it as well. I think good and balanced advice takes into consideration the rule, what normally happens and the specifics of the person's situation presented and what seems likely based on that.

Very well said, Miss Bee!

July 22, 2013

Miss Bee,

I wish you could go around the country as a motivational speaker to empower and motivate women with your wisdom!

July 22, 2013

It is painful for me to see advice which states women should stand by Man and put up with all sorts of disrespect,lies,promises because "everyone should be given a chance" to change. And one day you will be rewarded when he does change. Really? So women have to stick around hoping he will change or keep his promise? Shouldn't a man who is over 40 know how to be a decent human being by now? Does he really need a woman to teach him values,respect,character and integrity?

Hope is what keeps us stuck with losers.

I see my mother ,her sisters and women of my culture as sad examples of this thinking. Being a martyr for her man is what a woman is expected to do. Forgiveness for bad behavior is encouraged.

Low boundaries,high empathy,low self esteem ,waiting for him to walk the walk has done nothing but waste time.

I see years wasted putting hopes on some sad excuse of a man, being made ok by some. As though it proves how much you love him. It proves nothing but the fact you are willing to be his victim.

Men like that love women with no boundaries and tons of patience and empathy. Then they can cake eat all they want.

Edited July 22, 2013 by jlola

July 22, 2013

Miss Bee,

I wish you could go around the country as a motivational speaker to empower and motivate women with your wisdom!

That's sweet of you , you never know.

July 22, 2013

Noone knows what's best for everyone. But these boards are filled with pain...lots of lows, and very few highs. So yes, an affair is self destructive. It's destructive to absolutely everyone with an emotional tie to it. Accepting that truth is not the end of the world. If anything it sets a person on the path of healing. And very little shocks me about anyone anymore, lots of people are shocked to learn of the choices I've made. I'm one of those folks that "noone would ever think would do XYZ..." so believe me I get the hidden facets of people that very few see and choose to share or acknowledge.

You can be 100% in love with your affair partner, and still regret the affair, or the circumstances in which it took place, etc. To be unrepentant is to IMO, have learned absolutely nothing and will certainly speed one along the path to a repeat in circumstances. That is one reason why are you are so happy (relieved?) that your MM DOES regret having an affair and not leaving his marriage before reuniting with you, correct?

I'm not trying to make the fact you are in love a negative. Everyone's goal should be to be happy. To get there at the expense of others though, is a goal noone should want or be comfortable to accept.

I don't think that my R was self destructive to my boyfriend or myself. And the BS was already self destructing and trying to drag my boyfriend down with her. No thanks.

You think I should learn a lesson so that you are happy? Jesus. You know, I'm not even saying I haven't learned things, I just think it's utter bull that you think you can just swoop in and make everyone feel bad. Not your job.

If these boards are filled with pain, it's not only here. It's the BS's side. Even those who are 'happily reconciled'. And just to be clear, there is lots of HAPPINESS too. Trust me. I know the happy ones. The ones that aren't, I'll support as they make whatever decision is best for them.

July 22, 2013

If I can, I think the point of conflict which often arises, is indeed one of what is best for you versus everyone.

I think in more cases than not, affairs generally don't pan out well for those involved, esp if they want more than an affair. On both LS and other forums more sympathetic to affairs, I've seen it work out about the same. You have a few who are probably genuinely happy or who transitioned, and the rest are in turmoil or still hoping.

I think that sometimes "unrepentant" or "happy OW" seem to want to make a point of their affair not being the same, and sometimes in that attempt, it seems like they ignore posters who are the exact opposite/the rule, it's almost as though they have a fear of admitting most affairs won't work out, and try to downplay the reality of most As to bolster theirs. I think this is what Hope or others don't understand, that if your A worked for you, why does it become a case of "not all As are the same" instead of a case of "While mine wasn't like that, I do know for many it is hurtful." I think sometimes it comes off as though "unrepentant OW" ignore at all cost that most As don't work out, esp if working out means transitioning to an open A, and cannot simultaneously appreciate their own outcome while admitting that. I guess the conflict is one of: are you the rule or are you the exception and if you are in the few, how should you give advice in light of that? I think unrepentant OW often accuse those less sympathetic of affairs of gloom and doom and giving OW a bad picture...but reality: most OW already come to LS with their own tumultuous stories and people advise them based on the facts they present and the likely outcome based on that...and in truth I haven't seen too many cases where the OW came back to say everyone was wrong. Usually there are more cases of "I told you so." I also think many who'd consider themselves unrepentant, often seem to have no advice to offer OW who want advice, but waltz into a thread just to say their A wasn't like that and to argue about their own relationship with other members, instead of supporting the person currently asking for advice. I see this ALL the time..where an unrepentant woman turns every thread into a rehashing of how wonderful her relationship is...when that is so far from the point and like you mentioned, I'd also say to such a person: what is good for YOU isn't necessarily good for everyone else, and have you even stopped to look at the OP's situation before saying how wonderful your A is??

I have seen where the OP is asking for advice, it's not a discussion thread, and "unrepentant OW" seem sometimes to want to silence unhappy OW with tales of their success or do behave like just because the A was good for them it will be good for the other person too. I am sure some will disagree, which is fine, but I see affairs like smoking. It comes with a Surgeon General's warning because as a rule, it's not a good thing and can be destructive to your health and well-being. Adults are free to choose it, at their own risk and I think nothing is wrong with pointing out the risks. Like smoking, some may do it for years and years and live a long, healthy, wonderful life, where they never see any negative side effects or only minimal...many others end up with emphysema, smoker's lips, smoker's teeth, lung cancer. Should a person who smoked all their life advise other people who come to a forum struggling with smoking that they did it for 40 years and it was fine, they can, but I think if they said it was simply a lifestyle choice and is perfectly healthy, that would be a stretch. It's not healthy, as a rule it's destructive, and those who come out unscathed are the exception. I think people need to advise with those realities in mind, and I totally agree that we cannot use simply our own experience or what worked for us to advise, without taking into consideration what is the rule and what generally happens. I don't think it's fair for any poster not to read the situation and just advise blindly. I do think some people don't actually try to advise on the specifics but do make some overblown or blanket statements...I see it. I disagree with that. But it's not only BSs or "reformed OW" who do this, but the unrepentant do it as well. I think good and balanced advice takes into consideration the rule, what normally happens and the specifics of the person's situation presented and what seems likely based on that.

I appreciate your insight. I'll take it into consideration. Thank you for being kind about it. I say mine is different when people ask questions about OW being hurt or unhappy. I wasn't. I'm not.

But... I believe even if an OW is only happy right now, and that is what they want, then they should be able to, without having people attack them like someone who cut their arm in the ocean and the sharks are circling, trying to get we OW to run over to the 'Oh my god, we are horrible, should repent and this was the worst decision ever' side... for MOST it is not. They are getting pleasure from the A or it would not be happening. I'm not happy that my R began with an A because I feel sorry for his stbx... but generally speaking, if they are in it, I'll support THE PERSON and be kind.

It's been a really interesting thing for me on this forum. I am a member of other forums. The people there are kind. They appreciate that people are people, and need guidance and love. Not to be spanked and sent to the corner. We are not children. Never have I seen such rancor. EVER.

I am here to say there IS hope. IF you want it, fight for it. And if it is difficult, it is a R like any other and we are here if you hurt. And BS's come to the OW forum and rip them to shreds. Deny it if you like, but it is true. I went to the infidelity forum specifically to see what was going on. I posted some harsh reviews. But what I found was that BS's feel exactly the same way we do. And we hate one another. Pathetic. I'll be friendly with anyone who is friendly with me. I wish I had the balls to post the PM's I've rec'd from BS's... I laugh when they call OW despicable.

I'm rambling now. But I will say Miss Bee, I feel you have a grip on things. I always read your posts and appreciate your insight. I hope I haven't offended you. See the posts after you? They are just waiting for a fight. It's sad.

July 22, 2013

It is painful for me to see advice which states women should stand by Man and put up with all sorts of disrespect,lies,promises because "everyone should be given a chance" to change. And one day you will be rewarded when he does change. Really? So women have to stick around hoping he will change or keep his promise? Shouldn't a man who is over 40 know how to be a decent human being by now? Does he really need a woman to teach him values,respect,character and integrity?

Hope is what keeps us stuck with losers.

I see my mother ,her sisters and women of my culture as sad examples of this thinking. Being a martyr for her man is what a woman is expected to do. Forgiveness for bad behavior is encouraged.

Low boundaries,high empathy,low self esteem ,waiting for him to walk the walk has done nothing but waste time.

I see years wasted putting hopes on some sad excuse of a man, being made ok by some. As though it proves how much you love him. It proves nothing but the fact you are willing to be his victim.

Men like that love women with no boundaries and tons of patience and empathy. Then they can cake eat all they want.

I hope you are talking about BS's ... because they are the ones stuck with someone like that.

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