MissBee Posted July 22, 2013 Posted July 22, 2013 I'm wondering why the knee-jerk reaction is to date men and try to "push"/change them, rather than just dating more motivated and ambitious men from the start? It's never a good idea to go into dating someone with a running list of things you'd like to change about them. I.E. dating someone overweight and thinking, "I'll just try to get him/her to lose weight." Or dating an alcoholic or drug addict, thinking "I'll get him/her to change his ways." What an exhausting approach to life. I'm not insinuating that everyone should seek out a mate who's completely perfect (as if such a thing exists), but experience has taught you that this particular trait is important to you. Why not just stop settling on this one? I think if you've been dating for a while, and depending on your purpose, i.e. casual or serious commitment with a future, you really should have your absolute nos/dealbreakers as well as your absolute needs in a partner, and go into all dating scenarios with this info in mind. It's like going grocery shopping with a list versus without. With a list, you can get in and out, and get what you need and are more likely to avoid wasting time and money on random items, as you sometimes do when you just go into the store browsing. For me: I am pretty clear about what I CANNOT tolerate as well as what I really need in a partner, and when I am dating, I match men to that. It's not about perfection, but clearly if you have one or many of my "absolute nos", it makes no sense to date you then hope you transform.... I think one will save lots of head and heartache in dating if you go into dating with that mindset.
Author xpaperxcutx Posted July 23, 2013 Author Posted July 23, 2013 To answer why I didn't leave, the thing is, I develop feelings before the whole truth of their financial situations come to light. It happened with my first boyfriend, but I was pretty young and gullible at the time. My current boyfriend, we get along in many areas, but I don't know why he doesn't have any ambitions. I guess I always think leaving too early is similar to abandoning them, and I stay with them thinking they might change, but they never do, until after I leave.
lino Posted July 23, 2013 Posted July 23, 2013 ... what I'm wondering is, what the reason is for the fact that you listed all of your exes like an employer talking about past employees. Seems like men are just walking wallets to you. I was thinking the same. Doesn't sound very romantic at all.
jcrew11 Posted July 23, 2013 Posted July 23, 2013 To answer why I didn't leave, the thing is, I develop feelings before the whole truth of their financial situations come to light. It happened with my first boyfriend, but I was pretty young and gullible at the time. My current boyfriend, we get along in many areas, but I don't know why he doesn't have any ambitions. I guess I always think leaving too early is similar to abandoning them, and I stay with them thinking they might change, but they never do, until after I leave. Why do you need him to make more money? Do you have a lot of children that need food? Do you share a mortgage? Are you pregnant? People don't automatically develop ambition unless there is a reason. Some people just like money and getting rich, and will run over there mothers for Benjamin. There are some people who just can't handle the stress of college or stressful jobs, or getting promoted to manager. You may think you want your boyfriend to become ambitious, but what happens when he gets a stressful new job and starts ignoring you, working late, and gets friendly with the new college graduate at work?
mortensorchid Posted July 23, 2013 Posted July 23, 2013 I've been with a lot of losers in my life, but most of that comes from the fact that they don't feel that great next to me I realize. Most of them (as far as I know) have all had some kind of job, but they turned out to be very insecure or immature. They want someone who is just lesser than they are in terms of career plans, future goals, personal gains, etc. They want someone who is less educated, less charismatic, and quite honestly, trashy. Sounds bitter? It is. And has come from a long line of lessons.
proactivedreamer Posted July 23, 2013 Posted July 23, 2013 No I cannot date someone without ambition. I am very ambitious and have my own life to live, and am not interested in mothering a man. One of the most important things for me is having a man who has his own goals and career and is fulfilled therein and we're a power couple, in the sense that we're both successful in our own right. It's not the "size of his wallet" but size of his desire to do for himself and be independent...sitting around playing video games??? Um no way! I can support the dreams you have and the work you're putting towards it, as I expect you to do with me, we should both be an inspiration and motivation for each other, but I can't date someone whom I have to hold their hands and push them to be ambitious or even have dreams. You sound like a friend of mine...her boyfriend is 34 and trying to be a music producer, but puts zero work towards it, he has no driver's license, works at a supermarket job she got for him, she drives him to work and everywhere else, she's the one who is pushing him to go to college, she looked up the college, registered him, picked his classes, everyttthiiing, and she's 23...none of my friends understand this. I'm sure it fulfills some part of her to do this, in some ways, I think she feels he will never leave her and be indebted to her for "upgrading his life"...but for me, I could never be in that situation. I'm a mover and shaker and really need someone who is on that wavelength as well. We don't need to have the same career aspirations, but whatever you're into, you need to be into it, driven, self-motivated, mature, independent etc. I absolutely won't be paying for your life or hovering over you like your mom and driving you around and signing you up for things and giving you lunch money. Nope. Not for me. Why do you choose to date unambitious people then try to change them? I think that is a dead end. I really needed it this. I'm pretty much in the same situation as the OP, and have been too afraid to end it. Too busy playing martyr. To busy begging for some action. I keep thinking he is better than this! I can help him! I moving ahead of him, and trying to drag him along with me. And the crazy thing is he told me he feels indifferent to getting a job, having a social life, etc. It's becoming clearer that there is no helping someone who just doesn't give a ****. I feel sad for him. It breaks my heart,so I stay. But I feel myself waking up and pulling away. 1
phineas Posted July 23, 2013 Posted July 23, 2013 ... what I'm wondering is, what the reason is for the fact that you listed all of your exes like an employer talking about past employees. Seems like men are just walking wallets to you. I'm wondering two things. 1. why the successful guys she had one-off dates with went nowhere 2. what she actually does for a living & how much does she make? Not saying this is the OP, but i've got women friends from work and if we are out & someone pulls up in an expensive car they are giving themselves whiplash to see who gets out of it. They are always pushing their men to do better & make more money, meanwhile they are not making much money at all themselves but always have money to shop because they are attractive & there is always some putz willing to buy them drinks at the bar.
pink_sugar Posted July 23, 2013 Posted July 23, 2013 Then don't stay with him. What do you want me to tell you? Sometimes people have it rough and sitting there pushing him wont necessarily help him either. I know a few people living on less than $12 an hour. Not everyone gets to be successful. Do you want the guy for who he is or what he does? That's really a question you gotta ask yourself. I just hope you never ever get to a point where you lose your job and have to take something less than desirable and have to bum money off of people. $12 an hour is poverty where I live. Doesn't even cover my rent, much less anything else. Even if you're not ambitious, you need a minimum of 35k-40k a year just to rent an apartment in my area and get by. Honestly, no I could not date someone who lacks ambition. It's one thing to take time off work for personal reasons, but as I am very goal oriented and ambitious, I could not be with someone who wasn't the same way. I want to be making close to six figures by the time I'm 30. I've set up a 6 year plan and everything. It looks like you've done your best to motivate him. I motivated my husband to go back to school and he finished before I did. A lot of people think he is not motivated because he stopped going to school for a few years. However, at that time, he wasn't sure what to do with his life, which is common for a lot of people in their early twenties.
krz12 Posted July 23, 2013 Posted July 23, 2013 There are several options in this modern Feminist society: (1) Ambitious Feminist marries a lower-earning man (2) Ambitious Feminist marries an equally-earning man (3) Feminist marries a high-earning man, so she can quit her job after marriage+babies (gold diggers) Now, in it is no longer the 1950's but the idea of a woman being the sole breadwinner seems to appall many Feminists who are in Scenario 1, where the woman makes much more than the husband. Scenario 2 seems desirable, but Ambitious Men usually don't care about finding a woman of "equal salary" so these Ambitious men are going to date the hotter, younger woman who is less whiny. The OP's problem seems that she chooses to date low-earning men instead of Lawyers and Engineers. She wants to change a Golds Gym Ken Doll into a Bill Gates with more muscles. She also makes enough money, where these Dumb Jocks can mooch off her without getting better jobs on their own. A man will find a better job if he has the motivation and desperation. Unfortunately, that motivation may be getting Dumped and being Single. My friend has 3 sisters, all in their late 30s and never married, all highly educated making $200k+ salaries. I don't know how often such types go for (1) willingly and happily. Men will pick up a trophy wife no problem. The 3 people in question all wanted something resembling (2).
crude Posted July 23, 2013 Posted July 23, 2013 My friend has 3 sisters, all in their late 30s and never married, all highly educated making $200k+ salaries. I don't know how often such types go for (1) willingly and happily. Men will pick up a trophy wife no problem. The 3 people in question all wanted something resembling (2). Many women don't particularly like children or at least don't want them all day, every day. The main reason for women to get married has traditionally been the man's money. The sisters simply don't feel strongly enough about children and a man's presence to justify getting married. I'm sure if they wanted kids and a man being there, they'd marry someone who makes less. Don't feel sorry for them, they're doing what they want.
MrNate 2.0 Posted July 23, 2013 Posted July 23, 2013 Some of the posters saying I should just love a guy for him and not his wallet... Of course I love him, that's why I've been trying to helping him. His family are barely making it by, his mom is working minimum for god's sakes. I merely encouraged him to renew his license so he can consider starting his own personal training business. He's always telling me he hates his job at the hospital because he's on his feet all day walking everywhere transporting the patients, not to mention commute is almost 1 and a half hours each way. Is it so wrong of me to wish he had ambitions to try to improve his situation? Hoping and wishing are merely subtle illusions of what might be someday. It's not wrong of you to wish, but understand unless he wants to do it, it won't happen. He can only be the catalyst for change in his life. No one else. So ultimately it falls on you to stay or go. 2
Ire3 Posted July 23, 2013 Posted July 23, 2013 I see so much potential in him, but my friends tell me I'm only mothering him. I help him out financially at times but I don't how long this can take. I have goals of my own and I need a partner who is on the same pace and same level as myself- both in terms of financial stability and goals. Does anybody else believe I can push him harder to get his trainers certificates and start his own training business or am i just gullible in thinking we have a future together? It's not your job to push your partner uphill all his life. That just builds resentment in both of you. I think we all need to be with those who share common values. I'd say farewell to this person. 1
jcrew11 Posted July 23, 2013 Posted July 23, 2013 I think the OP should buy him lotto tickets everyday and hope he becomes a millionaire! Or maybe he gets a quick-rich job like Amway or some other pyramid scheme. IF he is in good shape, he can become a male stripper, I think they make decent cash. There are high paying jobs out there, but those jobs come with lifestyle changes. He can be a long-distance truck driver, they make good money. He could join the national guard. A lot of lawyers are out of work, so even if he got a college degree, that is never going to guaranteed he will be rich. He could be a fireman and then he would get a lot of female attention.
Recommended Posts