Can you date someone who lacks goals and ambitions?

[hoping2heal]

The lack of goals and ambition is a major turn off for me. I wouldn't know how to relate to that person either. So, no I couldn't date someone who lacked those things.

 

On the order of your boyfriend though..if it doesn't come from himself it isn't coming and if it does come it's temporary and will go. That's just the reality, you can't make anyone do anything. You can offer support and guidance and if they just lack the motivation and understanding on their own it isn't going to happen. If anything, he might start to feel pressure from you. That pressure may cause resentment or he may get a feeling of wanting to retreat from you. It could be that he's young or it could be this is how he is. I don't know how old he is but I'm guessing young since he's behaved so irresponsibly. In which case, there's still the chance he'll mature and get his act together but you can't clean up his act for him.

[jcrew11]

I read that 60% of married women prefer to work part-time or not at all after they get married and have kids.

 

Now, I know women get paid less than men on average, but does any man or woman really want to make $100 K but have to work 40+ overtime, and never see their kids.

 

Women much rather prefer to see their kids. But Feminists are still saying that Women need to work and earn equal to men.

 

But society is changing, and Feminists have won the wage war, but naive single women still expect a Man to make $100 K like it is the 1950's and the woman stays home and raises the children.

[hoping2heal]

 

Is it so wrong of me to wish he had ambitions to try to improve his situation?

 

Nope! It would be wrong if you weren't aware of that. Afterall, this is the man who may potentially be your Husband or father your children. If this is how he handles **** what kind of future will that be?

[hoping2heal]

I read that 60% of married women prefer to work part-time or not at all after they get married and have kids.

 

Now, I know women get paid less than men on average, but does any man or woman really want to make $100 K but have to work 40+ overtime, and never see their kids.

 

Women much rather prefer to see their kids. But Feminists are still saying that Women need to work and earn equal to men.

 

But society is changing, and Feminists have won the wage war, but naive single women still expect a Man to make $100 K like it is the 1950's and the woman stays home and raises the children.

 

I have my own career passions and interests that I intend to continue pursuing once marriage and kids arrive. Might I take some time off while the kids are very young? Yes, more than likely. But, I hope to be back working after that. I want my Husband to be able to support our family for the few years I'm not working but I'll do what is necessary too. I am not attracted to the lack of ambition and it's not because I need it so that I can not have to work, etc. I don't think every woman has the expectation that the man should be the breadwinner and have all of this money.

[hppr]

Now my current boyfriend works in a hospital as a patient transporter and he supplements his salary as self-employed part-time trainer. His prior education was in auto repair, but for much of the last 20 years of his life, he was a NASM certified personal trainer. He also used to be certified in Olympic power lifting, and has even participated in bodybuilding competitions. However, he has let his licenses expire and he has been reduced to working an hourly wage of $12.

 

So he's a big burly macho weightlifter guy with no job prospects.

 

He has a cell phone business on the side which he had invested in with a good friend of his, but he has not been serious about his investments, and he spent $20,000 of his mom's money, which at this point most likely he won't see a return of.

 

And his mother is working for minimum wage? My mother works for 10$ an hour at a bakery and when I was 20-25 I wouldn't take 20 bucks from her much less 20 thousand. What a scumbag.

 

Guys like this grow on trees. You can either date quality men or keep looking for guys to fix. That's all there is to it.

[Dread Pirate Roberts]

So he's a big burly macho weightlifter guy with no job prospects.

 

 

 

And his mother is working for minimum wage? My mother works for 10$ an hour at a bakery and when I was 20-25 I wouldn't take 20 bucks from her much less 20 thousand. What a scumbag.

 

Guys like this grow on trees. You can either date quality men or keep looking for guys to fix. That's all there is to it.

 

Yeah, I'd never ask someone to lend me that kinda money. That's pretty crappy.

[SammySammy]

A couple of thoughts ....

 

1. Being a personal trainer and owning a personal training business are two entirely different things. Understanding physical fitness is quite different from understanding or wanting to do the accounting, marketing and other tasks that a business owner must do to be successful. Many people have no desire to take on that responsibility. Though they may have said they wanted to have a business, the actual thought of going through the process of starting and owning one is daunting to some people. You have a business degree. He doesn't. Things that may seem simple to you may not be so easy or simple to him.

 

2. I wouldn't assume that he lacks ambition. My ex made the same assumption. Although I did have a college degree and was working, she thought I could do so much more. She was right, but the problem was I didn't have the passion or ambition to do the things SHE wanted me to do. I had my own dreams. My dreams did take a little longer and more preparation to come into fruition than some of the things she thought I could do. I finally got enough money to get started on my dream a month before we broke up. At that point, she had gotten discouraged because I "wasn't doing anything" and she had "fallen out of love with me". Our relationship was over. That was years ago. Let's just say she gave up on me too soon.

 

I believe that truly successful people love what they do. He has to find what that is and do THAT. Once he finds his passion, you just may find that he has more ambition than you think.

[crude]

I help him out financially at times but I don't how long this can take. I have goals of my own and I need a partner who is on the same pace and

same level as myself- both in terms of financial stability and goals.

 

 

Because you're ambitious personally and are willing to work for your financial goals, I think you need to choose a different type of man. No use trying to change someone, you're just making things more difficult for yourself. It's like cooking, when you need to start with good ingredients to have a satisfactory end result. Of course if you didn't want to work at all because of your gender and just wanted a man to be ambitious so you could mooch more off him, my advice would've been to hang yourself.

[white]

I don't care. With the proviso that "lacking ambition" does not mean getting drunk or stoned all the time. I would date someone who made no money making beach art, just wanted to read in the evenings and never left the town she was born in ten times over before I wanted to date a cutting thrusting ambitious go getting dullard who couldn't sit still for five minutes and bought a new car every year. TBH I'd rather toss a molotov over them.

[Goldenbrwn]

As a man I don't really need a woman to be super ambitious and make a lot of money. I just want her to be able to take care of herself without resorting to using her body/looks to get money from men.

Its almost opposite since as a woman makes more money it changes what men she can actually be with. IE a woman making Oprah's money now has a harder time finding a guy making about 30k attractive.

 

Seems like the closer we get to equal pay the less happy a lot of women are in general with their love life.

[sillyanswer]

Someone who lacks goals and ambitions but leads a happy and fulfilling life? Yes, probably.

 

Someone who lacks goals and ambitions who complains about their dead-end job and poor living conditions? Probably not.

 

Someone who lacks goals and ambitions having already reached them and now lives in a life of luxury and will share it with me? Yes please.

[smile1983]

I think you do not need to push him to do anything. If he is not ready for something you pushing him to do it will only push him away. If he is ready for it, you will not need to push. Give him encouragement if he decides to do it for himself but let him know you are not going to support him financially. He should not be living off you unless he has got a real reason to (like being physically unable to work or staying at home and taking care of your kids while you work).

[GravityMan]

Having goals, ambition, drive and a strong work ethic are big reasons why I'm where I'm currently at in my career. I think I would have a hard time relating or or connecting with a woman who didn't have at least some of those things. But OTOH I doubt I would want someone who's too ambitious and goal-driven either. Going overboard with those things can be problematic. Having a playful side and being able to chill out and have fun is important too.

[jcrew11]

I have my own career passions and interests that I intend to continue pursuing once marriage and kids arrive. Might I take some time off while the kids are very young? Yes, more than likely. But, I hope to be back working after that. I want my Husband to be able to support our family for the few years I'm not working but I'll do what is necessary too. I am not attracted to the lack of ambition and it's not because I need it so that I can not have to work, etc. I don't think every woman has the expectation that the man should be the breadwinner and have all of this money.

 

Its okay to be a gold-digger and want to marry a semi-rich man.

Feminists have tried to change the rules of dating and society.

Yet, women still use code words to describe men who aren't rich or working at a "husband wage" - these men lack "ambition"

Women want "options" when it comes to working - the option to work or to be a stay at home mom.

But real men don't have the "socially acceptable option" to not work or be a stay at home dad.

Also, when a woman says she wants "man's salary and job" she is literally preventing another guy from being hired, so there becomes less employed men who have "husband wages"

 

Look, stop complaining that your boyfriend is a loser, and just dump him. If he wants a job, then he will get one.

 

If you want to be a career Feminist, then realize that there are many men out there that won't be working at the same wage, and mostly at a lesser wage than you, and accept that as the reality of modern-day society.

[jcrew11]

That's where you're very, very mistaken.

 

In the US, women have NOT won the wage war. It's still a well known fact that women are NOT being paid the same amount for jobs that men in equal positions are earning.

 

And working is only one of many things a woman does. She's usually also the primary caregiver when they have children, and she's the one that handles most of the household chores as well.

 

Considering the fact that women in general work so much harder at so many different things, I don't think it's so 'unfair' that she would hope her husband makes a decent salary as his contribution.

 

I completely agree, it is perfectly acceptable for a woman to be a gold-digger even if that is not the politically correct term. She should be able to marry a man who makes a "husband salary"

 

But Feminists have changed the rules, where single men need to accept Female ambition, but there are some men who aren't capable of working at that level, and you should dump him if you don't like his salary.

 

Women want the option of staying home or working full time. But men don't get the same "options" of staying home. I think some men have realized that working 50 plus hours a week sucks, and that being a stay at home dad isn't a bad idea. Only the Feminists will never let this happen.

 

You can say women don't get equal pay, but the face is more women "Opt-OUT" of the work force when they have children or get married. That means more women chose to be unemployed, not working, or working in part time jobs, because they want to be stay at home moms. Wake up, not many $100k high-paying 50 plus hours a week full time jobs, give women the "flexibility" to raise kids and work full time.

 

Quite simply, there are less employable women willing to put up the sacrifices of family time, to work full time $100k jobs. Then there are the $100k women who "Opt OUT" of working and quit their jobs when they have babies or rich husbands to support them.

[MissBee]

I read that 60% of married women prefer to work part-time or not at all after they get married and have kids.

 

Now, I know women get paid less than men on average, but does any man or woman really want to make $100 K but have to work 40+ overtime, and never see their kids.

 

Women much rather prefer to see their kids. But Feminists are still saying that Women need to work and earn equal to men.

 

But society is changing, and Feminists have won the wage war, but naive single women still expect a Man to make $100 K like it is the 1950's and the woman stays home and raises the children.

 

What does any of this have to do with the OP's problem....please explain.

[amazingdrummer]

I don't think anyone can change a man but himself. If you want an ambitious man, try to find one and date him. Don't try to be a hero and 'save' an 'unqualified' man. You love him as he is now (sweet, caring, lovely... but no ambition), if someday he changes and becomes that successful man, I don't think he will stay with you.

[jcrew11]

What does any of this have to do with the OP's problem....please explain.

 

There are several options in this modern Feminist society:

 

(1) Ambitious Feminist marries a lower-earning man

 

(2) Ambitious Feminist marries an equally-earning man

 

(3) Feminist marries a high-earning man, so she can quit her job after marriage+babies (gold diggers)

 

Now, in it is no longer the 1950's but the idea of a woman being the sole breadwinner seems to appall many Feminists who are in Scenario 1, where the woman makes much more than the husband.

 

Scenario 2 seems desirable, but Ambitious Men usually don't care about finding a woman of "equal salary" so these Ambitious men are going to date the hotter, younger woman who is less whiny.

 

The OP's problem seems that she chooses to date low-earning men instead of Lawyers and Engineers. She wants to change a Golds Gym Ken Doll into a Bill Gates with more muscles. She also makes enough money, where these Dumb Jocks can mooch off her without getting better jobs on their own.

 

A man will find a better job if he has the motivation and desperation. Unfortunately, that motivation may be getting Dumped and being Single.

[MissBee]

There are several options in this modern Feminist society:

 

(1) Ambitious Feminist marries a lower-earning man

 

(2) Ambitious Feminist marries an equally-earning man

 

(3) Feminist marries a high-earning man, so she can quit her job after marriage+babies (gold diggers)

 

Now, in it is no longer the 1950's but the idea of a woman being the sole breadwinner seems to appall many Feminists who are in Scenario 1, where the woman makes much more than the husband.

 

Scenario 2 seems desirable, but Ambitious Men usually don't care about finding a woman of "equal salary" so these Ambitious men are going to date the hotter, younger woman who is less whiny.

 

The OP's problem seems that she chooses to date low-earning men instead of Lawyers and Engineers. She wants to change a Golds Gym Ken Doll into a Bill Gates with more muscles. She also makes enough money, where these Dumb Jocks can mooch off her without getting better jobs on their own.

 

A man will find a better job if he has the motivation and desperation. Unfortunately, that motivation may be getting Dumped and being Single.

 

 

I still don't see why you singled out feminists....I see none of what you're saying as related to feminism and feminists at all.

 

Anyway, I shall bow out now and not bother to engage some of your flawed points.

[ChessPieceFace]

... what I'm wondering is, what the reason is for the fact that you listed all of your exes like an employer talking about past employees. Seems like men are just walking wallets to you.

[jcrew11]

I still don't see why you singled out feminists....I see none of what you're saying as related to feminism and feminists at all.

 

Anyway, I shall bow out now and not bother to engage some of your flawed points.

 

LOL, it is wrong to assume that all women are feminists.

 

I think there is nothing wrong with a woman wanting a Traditional Relationship, with a Traditional husband that works full-time and provides for the family.

 

I think the flaw in Feminist ideology, is that when ambitious full-time working women expect to marry a man of equal or higher pay, and that men who earn less than her are unacceptable. These seems that no matter how much a woman believes in feminism she is a closet gold-digger if she judges a man by his paycheck. A real Feminist wouldn't care how much her man makes, and is willing to become a female breadwinner. If they live together, and have enough to pay for the food and mortgage, then why does the boyfriend need to find a higher paying job? A lot of men with high-paying jobs work 50+ hours a week and never see their kids or wives. There's a lot less stress being a personal trainer than a company CEO on on-call doctor.

[MissBee]

LOL, it is wrong to assume that all women are feminists.

 

I think there is nothing wrong with a woman wanting a Traditional Relationship, with a Traditional husband that works full-time and provides for the family.

 

I think the flaw in Feminist ideology, is that when ambitious full-time working women expect to marry a man of equal or higher pay, and that men who earn less than her are unacceptable. These seems that no matter how much a woman believes in feminism she is a closet gold-digger if she judges a man by his paycheck. A real Feminist wouldn't care how much her man makes, and is willing to become a female breadwinner. If they live together, and have enough to pay for the food and mortgage, then why does the boyfriend need to find a higher paying job? A lot of men with high-paying jobs work 50+ hours a week and never see their kids or wives. There's a lot less stress being a personal trainer than a company CEO on on-call doctor.

 

 

 

Alright....

[kiss_andmakeup]

I'm wondering why the knee-jerk reaction is to date men and try to "push"/change them, rather than just dating more motivated and ambitious men from the start?

 

It's never a good idea to go into dating someone with a running list of things you'd like to change about them. I.E. dating someone overweight and thinking, "I'll just try to get him/her to lose weight." Or dating an alcoholic or drug addict, thinking "I'll get him/her to change his ways." What an exhausting approach to life. I'm not insinuating that everyone should seek out a mate who's completely perfect (as if such a thing exists), but experience has taught you that this particular trait is important to you. Why not just stop settling on this one?

[tbf]

To attempt to salvage the thread from its rock bottom gender war, pin everything on feminism because I have not a single clue diversion, xpaper, you can keep putting out small fires around the yard by pushing for change from men who don't show the characteristics that you want or you can stop the house from burning down by asking why your selection process includes a "loser fixer-upper" perspective.

 

But if you're not rejecting men who embody the traits you want, instead, being rejected by these men, then one way to ensure your house doesn't continue burning down is to ask why you're not appealing to them.

[crude]

Feminism isn't just what women want. Many men in the 50's were outsiders in their own families, a distant figure to their kids. Nothing but meal tickets. A large number of men today want to be a part of their childrens' lives and expect their wives to contribute financially like they do. The want a partner, not an overgrown child. So even if a woman doesn't want to work, she might just have to, like men have always had to. Sounds good to me.