Dread Pirate Roberts Posted July 19, 2013 Posted July 19, 2013 I hate it when people make plans that they then can't keep, so I find it a turn off too. But if that's the first time he's done this then I'd give him another chance. At the moment his work is more important than you (and it should be since you've only just started seeing him) but since he has international clients it sounds like this could be something that comes up again in the future. Maybe ask him how often he ends up working unexpected nights due to client problems, and you might get an idea of how much this might affect dating him. At the end of the day he did something that turned you off. It doesn't matter whether (we think) that was reasonable or not... you were still turned off. Strike one! I find cancellations annoying as well... especially in the early stages when I'm trying to establish basic trust. Regarding his schedule... Most responsible adults have a variety of commitments... be it work, family, kids, friends, volunteering, hobbies, etc. My life is pretty full too. It can take a little while before I integrate someone into my life and start pushing other things off my plate and rearranging. It is easy to overcommit just a little when a new, fabulous opportunity arrives rather unexpectedly. YOU being the fabulous opportunity that arrived unexpectedly We'll see how he manages things moving forward though. I'm not keen on those who break plans. Very hard to develop intimacy and trust that way. I cannot stand extremely flaky people. You can always tell the best people (in relationships / friendships), because it will be like you were when you were a kid, in school; you'll hit it off and make time for each other. Often times they flake because they weren't taking it THAT seriously, or they might be afraid to get too close too fast and end up hopping back a space or two.
Kamille Posted July 19, 2013 Posted July 19, 2013 I have to disagree with the people who say that they'd let it slide once, but not twice. He's busy. He works 80 hour weeks. He owns his own business. It will happen again. What is telling is how he handled himself when it did happen: he took responsibility and made sure to reschedule. The bottom line is you can both play a role in how this plays out: either you can handle this kind of rescheduling or you can't. Either he can demonstrate by other actions that he is there for you - or he can't. But the rescheduling? In this case, it's a safe bet to say it'll happen again. 2
USMCHokie Posted July 19, 2013 Posted July 19, 2013 I think it was a bit of an overreaction on your part. You can't create a pattern out of a single occurrence, and you can't assume he is like other men you've dated who cancelled on you and then turned out to be flakes. I think he reacted better to your reaction than many guys would have... 1
Author Eternal Sunshine Posted July 19, 2013 Author Posted July 19, 2013 Yeah, it was an over-reaction. I saw him tonight and he brought it up again and said that he completely understands where I came from as he hates flaking as well. I told him it was cool. (I hate that I am even having these talks this early on. I wish I could stop being so intense.) Anyway, the rest of the date went really well. He is extremely funny, like a stand up comedian material. He can talk about an umbrella for an hour and make it interesting Very quick thinker and has witty comebacks to almost anything I say. I asked him about his relationship past and he had one that lasted 7 years and one that lasted a year. Never married and no kids which I definitely prefer. He already asked me to see a movie next week 9
Emilia Posted July 19, 2013 Posted July 19, 2013 (I hate that I am even having these talks this early on. I wish I could stop being so intense.) I wouldn't consider this kind of thing 'intense'. It's almost the kind of conversation you could have with a stranger in a pub. I know you want to come across laid back but I think lots of people make the mistake of being too easy going early on then deal with the communication issues later. 1
happydate Posted July 19, 2013 Posted July 19, 2013 Where do you live? A lot of people want to move there because they won't have to worry about finding a job, like they do in most places in the civilized world today. Read her original post carefully please... People; you guys are responding just with emotions!! He said he has never dated in a few years and now he has a chance with this girl. Why should he not make a good impression? In America, there is a booming dating service industry where millions of Americans use Match.com, POF and eHarmony. Those aren't free services at last for men, plus relationship gurus that sometimes charge an obscene amount of money to teach guys to date girls. Why then are some people willing to shell out lots of money when our economy is still in the abyss? If you're willing to work and have a passion to do the things you like, there's always a job for you. Are you passionate and extremely happy in your job?
Emilia Posted July 19, 2013 Posted July 19, 2013 If you're willing to work and have a passion to do the things you like, there's always a job for you. Are you passionate and extremely happy in your job? It sounds like the guy runs his own business. What planet are you on?
happydate Posted July 19, 2013 Posted July 19, 2013 Da fuq? ANY guy that does this after ONE date, needs to get slapped in the face. With a brick. Read her original post rather responding with your emotions.. He told her he hasn't dated in a while cause he's married to his work. His action supported this, because he cancelled on her. She has the right to be angry. At least both were honest. He was honest about who he is and what she needs to expect and she is honest about her emotional feelings -- gets angry and release it fully. What I am saying is that, since he hasn't dated in awhile and that he has this chance for a second date; why would he reschedule it especially it's planned long in advance right?!? A shrewd business person has what is called a "CALENDAR" on his table and I hope he marked it clear of anything else. Plus, he should have been a little smarter and put it in this way when he called. He should have said.. Hi OP, I really like to see you as planned but I just finish a project with a client and I'm not feeling well. Do you still want to go ahead or should we reschedule the date another time? You put the ball back in her court and won't make her feel like he's flaking. Sometimes, just being completely honest in a relationship and dating helps makes things smoother. If not, people suspect with a funny gut feeling. And she's just having that.
happydate Posted July 19, 2013 Posted July 19, 2013 It sounds like the guy runs his own business. What planet are you on? Earth? And you? Planet that has a problem comprehending the English language?
Emilia Posted July 19, 2013 Posted July 19, 2013 Earth? And you? Planet that has a problem comprehending the English language? Certainly your English. Anyone that sacrifices their business for someone they have met once or twice is not a very smart person I would say. 4
happydate Posted July 19, 2013 Posted July 19, 2013 (edited) :eek::lmao::lmao::lmao::lmao: Honestly I can always trust LS to make my day in the early morning... I am guessing happydate doesn't have many second dates or he doesn't have a job Actually I have both. I also have a separate private practise providing strategic advice to counsellors and therapists in dealing with these issues. It's a serious issue. Like Kathy M posted, her warning is correct. In fact, we have met MANY women who are in or left the very same relationships as Kathy M described. First of all. This guy is a complete total stranger. She only met him once and now onto a second date. You don't know what is he all about. It takes roughly about 2 years of dating to know the person who you are with. The thing about this guy is that he starts out with the line that he's married to his work. And this is a standard line for guys who's been dumped or didn't get any more dates because he feared his loyalty to his work drive women who seeks lots of attention away. It's a way for him to filter out the needy and clingy women and attract more of a self-reliant highly confident woman to be his equal. That's what he's seeking anyhow. But you need to know about this guy. This guy truly will be married to his work and he will only give his attention to the woman whenever time he has to spare permits. When you marry the guy and have his kids, you need to expect that sometimes he'll miss his kids birthday parties often or even yours. He will keep saying that he's the sole bread winner and that he's doing this to put food on table and pay down the mortgage and he couldn't understand why his woman complaining. He always said; didn't you know who you are marrying into when you date me? I hear this all the time with women complaining that their husbands aren't around all the time and at least show some emotional intimacy and being close. And they always ask me why they are doing this to add a man's perspective. I said, you chose to marry a package and you got the package! The great thing about these men some women find really attractive are that, they are ambitious and independent. Edited July 19, 2013 by happydate
happydate Posted July 19, 2013 Posted July 19, 2013 (edited) Certainly your English. Anyone that sacrifices their business for someone they have met once or twice is not a very smart person I would say. Where did I say sacrifice his business dude? Putting words into my mouth huh? I said he can delay or put off his client's request for a day or two. If he looses this client, it's not a big deal. As a software developer, the guy should have MANY clients. We have friends working on Java, iOS and Android apps etc and they date and they put off work for clients to date. And they put off work if they get really sick. In fact, one of my best closet friends in particular married his wife and now a happy father of a beautiful girl. He put off a client's work to see her and never regretted it. He said, she's worth $80,000 in lost revenue, because you can not buy a woman who is loyal, honest, caring, family oriented etc for that much. Rich guys richer than him tried to keep their wives and hire private detectives to make sure they don't cheat and failed. So it's just what is his priority now? Did you know that the Japanese workers actually take slightly more off days than Americans? Did you also know that Americans in general are the most overworked people on Earth because they are afraid of loosing their jobs, especially in Europe where unemployment is in the double digit? Edited July 19, 2013 by happydate
therhythm Posted July 19, 2013 Posted July 19, 2013 Actually I have both. I also have a separate private practise providing strategic advice to counsellors and therapists in dealing with these issues. It's a serious issue. Like Kathy M posted, her warning is correct. In fact, we have met MANY women who are in or left the very same relationships as Kathy M described. First of all. This guy is a complete total stranger. She only met him once and now onto a second date. You don't know what is he all about. It takes roughly about 2 years of dating to know the person who you are with. The thing about this guy is that he starts out with the line that he's married to his work. And this is a standard line for guys who's been dumped or didn't get any more dates because he feared his loyalty to his work drive women who seeks lots of attention away. It's a way for him to filter out the needy and clingy women and attract more of a self-reliant highly confident woman to be his equal. That's what he's seeking anyhow. But you need to know about this guy. This guy truly will be married to his work and he will only give his attention to the woman whenever time he has to spare permits. When you marry the guy and have his kids, you need to expect that sometimes he'll miss his kids birthday parties often or even yours. He will keep saying that he's the sole bread winner and that he's doing this to put food on table and pay down the mortgage and he couldn't understand why his woman complaining. He always said; didn't you know who you are marrying into when you date me? I hear this all the time with women complaining that their husbands aren't around all the time and at least show some emotional intimacy and being close. And they always ask me why they are doing this to add a man's perspective. I said, you chose to marry a package and you got the package! The great thing about these men some women find really attractive are that, they are ambitious and independent. Man... you are reading too much from all this... he has reschedule once and the new date was in a short period of time. OP is very happy with how he treats her and some people are more busy than others... so if OP can live with that idea there is nothing wrong with it. Expecting that someone who has only meet you once drop a customer issue and lose a customer for not rescheduling is beyond unreasonable ... I really hope you are not serious about being a counselor.... your advise is the worse in the whole thread .... 1
happydate Posted July 19, 2013 Posted July 19, 2013 Man... you are reading too much from all this... he has reschedule once and the new date was in a short period of time. OP is very happy with how he treats her and some people are more busy than others... so if OP can live with that idea there is nothing wrong with it. Expecting that someone who has only meet you once drop a customer issue and lose a customer for not rescheduling is beyond unreasonable ... I really hope you are not serious about being a counselor.... your advise is the worse in the whole thread .... I don't think you are reading between the lines either. Like I said, we've met people like that. Statistics don't lie. I don't know the dude and so do you and yet you make it sound you knew. Is this correct of you defending him? The OP's concern is that she's annoyed and she has the right to, but I never said she shouldn't go ahead and date him did I? I only said that he looked like a flake and can be a flake and has a likelihood of being one. First impression is everything in dating or even in business. He is not giving this girl that confidence. Let me ask you this. If she has every confidence that he's not a flake and that it's just a one off thing. Have you ever consider that she won't be posting this and asking for advice??
therhythm Posted July 19, 2013 Posted July 19, 2013 I don't think you are reading between the lines either. Like I said, we've met people like that. Statistics don't lie. I don't know the dude and so do you and yet you make it sound you knew. Is this correct of you defending him? The OP's concern is that she's annoyed and she has the right to, but I never said she shouldn't go ahead and date him did I? I only said that he looked like a flake and can be a flake and has a likelihood of being one. First impression is everything in dating or even in business. He is not giving this girl that confidence. Let me ask you this. If she has every confidence that he's not a flake and that it's just a one off thing. Have you ever consider that she won't be posting this and asking for advice?? Maybe you should stop reading between the lines and read the lines themselves... they give actual information and not just speculations 4
Emilia Posted July 19, 2013 Posted July 19, 2013 Where did I say sacrifice his business dude? Putting words into my mouth huh? I said he can delay or put off his client's request for a day or two. If he looses this client, it's not a big deal. As a software developer, the guy should have MANY clients. ...... Did you know that the Japanese workers actually take slightly more off days than Americans? Did you also know that Americans in general are the most overworked people on Earth because they are afraid of loosing their jobs, especially in Europe where unemployment is in the double digit? I'm sorry..... but.... what...? You think clients and projects and money grow on trees? What? 1
Els Posted July 19, 2013 Posted July 19, 2013 Where did I say sacrifice his business dude? Putting words into my mouth huh? I said he can delay or put off his client's request for a day or two. If he looses this client, it's not a big deal. As a software developer, the guy should have MANY clients. We have friends working on Java, iOS and Android apps etc and they date and they put off work for clients to date. And they put off work if they get really sick. Are you for real? Really sick, yes. Date? No. I don't know any software dev who puts off work to date, and I have a feeling I know more of them than you do, being in a related field myself. Unless you're the rare minority who has already made a huge name for yourself and a lot of money and are just working to kill time, most people in the real world can't actually put off work to DATE. That being said, ES should feel free to ditch the guy due to this if she wants to, IMO. Work or no work, he isn't entitled to every woman he dates being fine with this. Her preferences matter too. 1
Els Posted July 19, 2013 Posted July 19, 2013 I'm sorry..... but.... what...? You think clients and projects and money grow on trees? What? "Did you also know that Americans in general are the most overworked people on Earth because they are afraid of loosing their jobs, especially in Europe where unemployment is in the double digit?" He also seems to think that Europe is in America...? 1
Emilia Posted July 19, 2013 Posted July 19, 2013 "Did you also know that Americans in general are the most overworked people on Earth because they are afraid of loosing their jobs, especially in Europe where unemployment is in the double digit?" He also seems to think that Europe is in America...? It is just all a bit bizarre. 1
MidwestUSA Posted July 19, 2013 Posted July 19, 2013 It is just all a bit bizarre. Does this explain the language barrier?
Emilia Posted July 19, 2013 Posted July 19, 2013 Does this explain the language barrier? I don't think it's about English as such. More about life experiences - or lack of.
MidwestUSA Posted July 19, 2013 Posted July 19, 2013 I don't think it's about English as such. More about life experiences - or lack of. Okay, I wasn't following. Probably because I'm overworked and unemployed. 1
myriad Posted July 19, 2013 Posted July 19, 2013 Thankfully it's not this guy Brad I was thinking of then.
Ninjainpajamas Posted July 19, 2013 Posted July 19, 2013 I think he pretty much made his situation clear in the beginning and his attempt to "over-explain" the situation of why he could not see you still showed interested, so it was no surprise there would be a second date. As far as him cancelling and being unavailable in the future....I think that's reasonable and to be expected...80 hours a week is a lot, I'm not sure if that's an exaggeration or overestimation but anything above 60 hours a week is pushing it on free time, 70 is pretty much buried in your work and 80 is just dead IMO. So unless he is willing to change and be more flexible for a relationship or dating, then I don't see him having all the free time in the world nor being able to relax and recover...this may turn into a weekend or every other week type of thing, but still that's farther ahead and yet to be seen how much time he will allocate to this, especially in the beginning phase if he really likes you. But I do think that in a strange way this might work out for you, given the pace and comfort level you have, as well as trust or lack of with men...this may or may not suit your needs...especially since you probably like to spend time on your own as well...at least until you're emotionally wrapped up in it. But this might actually have the potential of going past the dating phase quickly...but as far as emotions and investment on both of your parts, that's still yet to be seen. I think this would be a good situation for you to pursue though because of your own unavailability and fears. I don't know if overall it's the best relationship for you but it makes more sense for right now and where you are. I would make it a priority expressing how you feel right out of the gate with a lot of clear and direct communication, I think that's really important and you didn't go far at all telling him how you feel about flakiness...I say shet to people that most probably wouldn't even dream of saying in the beginning, not that I do it rudely but I do it to communicate...I practice what I preach myself, and I'm as direct as I want to be and express what I feel...I hear a lot of people say "I don't like playing games" but If I'm not playing games then my actions and words reflect that, not just my internal feeling that I keep all to myself...not that I wouldn't protect myself at all times either and put my heart on my sleeve (not that way anyway), but I think that's something everybody has the responsibility to do and to just use their common sense...you just gotta check yourself every once in a while to keep yourself level-headed and grounded to the "reality" of things, but also be not too scared to run away from something that is genuine. 2
BradJacobs Posted July 19, 2013 Posted July 19, 2013 As a software developer, the guy should have MANY clients. And if he doesn't? I know several small business owners in very niche industries that service very few clients.
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