My take on infidelity and leaving wife for OW.

[waterwoman]

I think the position you posted is also very simplistic thecharade. IME there isn't a single marriage where both parties are equally happy all the time. It isn't natural. We all have ups and downs in our live and our moods.

I would suggest that I was more unhappy than H many times. His 'unhappiness' only manifested itself after our 3rd child with learning difficulties was born and he dealt with it by becoming more distant. He certainly made me more 'unhappy' in that way. It was swings and roundabouts not a simple downward path.

 

But in your example I would rather the unhappy spouse told me they were so unhappy they wanted a divorce, for several reasons:

 

1. If there was a chance to work on the marriage the 'happy' spouse would get an uneqivocal message that things had to change and how.

 

2. There wouldn't be a third party muddying the water. The issues would be clear. No chance to say 'Oh you wouldn't have left me if it wasn't for X'.

 

3. If the 'happy' spouse might well not be able to change. The things that were making the other spouse unhappy might well be unsolvable so divorce is inevitable. An affair just makes everything more complex.

 

The hurt is inevitable. Personally I'd prefer one flavour of hurt (the D without A) to the other kind.

[Betterthanthis13]

What about the selfish spouse? What if someone cheats on (due to fear of divorcing) a selfish spouse?

 

Who needs to do "the work" to reconcile the marriage?

 

I've been snippy with you for some reason, so I'm going to start over with my reply to this. I apologize for being rude. Something about this post really rubbed me the wrong way, but that is my issue and I shouldn't have taken it out on you.

 

I think when a person finds themselves in a marriage where their needs are consistently not being met, yet they have been trying and trying to get through to their spouse to work on the marriage, they are in a terrible position that is totally unfair. It can be maddening, isolating, frustrating beyond words and if this dynamic goes on long enough, it can drive the isolated spouse to crave attention and affection so badly that they start looking outside the marriage for what they are not getting at home.

 

Unfortunately, it is exactly at this point, when you are at your most vulnerable, that you are faced with one of the toughest choices you will ever have to make. Your spouse, who you should be able to turn to for support and guidance, is of no help. You are angry at them . Here is new person- willing to listen, interested in you.... It seems like such a relief, it's been so long, you feel like a plant that has been shoved carelessly into a dark closet and theis new person is offering sunshine, water and plant food.

 

This is exactly how pimps recruit young girls into lives of prostitution and drugs. Their family lives are so miserable, they are abused and ignored at home, and a man comes along showering them with gifts, sex, and attention, until she becomes loyal to him- then he turns her out on the street.

 

Not saying your AP was a pimp. At all. Just comparing the dynamic to illustrate the manipulative technique. Your AP most likely did not employ this manipulative technique on purpose- but there must have been something screwed up in his head enough to make him interested in a married woman- so even though he probably seemed like a perfectly normal, nice man, it only looks that way from the inside. Just like the young girl thinks the pimp is her true love at first- she is so messed up herself she can't see what is really going on.

 

As an adult person with a commitment to your husband, at some point there was a conscious decision to make the change from unhappy faithful spouse, to cheater. It creeps up slowly, it always "just happens" in the mind of the WS, but in actuality it never "just happens". There was a choice. You may have surpressed the memory, but the choice happened.

 

That choice to cheat- was your ethical decision to make, and your responsibility alone. It is totally independent of the decaying marriage conditions or your husbands unwillingness to recognize said conditions.

 

That being said, your question was whose responsibility is reconciliation in this situation?

 

The answer is both of you. You and you alone are responsible for all the damage caused by the cheating. If you continue to believe that he "deserved it" there will never be healing for either of you. If you don't do full disclosure, again no healing. Full disclosure, true remorse, accountability for your decision, all of that is on you alone.

 

The marriage problems are still the marriage problems. He does not get a free pass for his covert,passive aggressive abuse that he demonstrated towards you for years because you cheated. That doesn't happen either, or again- no healing.

 

It is now very, very complicated.

 

There were better choices at your time of distress than to have an affair. Having an affair was actually the worst choice you could make, even though it was the only appealing choice at the time. Drugs are like that.

 

The better choices were to file for divorce, and hope that wakes him up enough to admit to his problems and do something about them, or to tell him straight up that your needs are not being met, you refuse to take his passive aggressive abuse one minute longer, and that you are making the decision to get your emotional and sexual needs met outside the marriage.

 

He didn't have the right to hold you hostage in a bad situation and expect you to play along and pretend everything was just dandy. You are a human being and your needs are important. As your husband, if he was neglecting these needs in a significant way over time, he was already breaking the marriage. You had every right to point that out and do something about it.

 

You did not, however, have the right to covertly exact revenge on him with an affair. All you did was add more damage to a broken marriage, and give him a false sense of power over you because now you are the "bad guy", and without a LOT of IC and MC, he is most likely going to feel justified in turning you back into a hostage.

 

You both have a lot of work to do. Since you are here posting looking for answers, it seems like your real desire is to ultimately work things out with your husband. If that is true- Step # 1 is coming to terms with your own mistake and taking accountability for your choice, then being 100% honest about it and having true remorse for it. You can't control him- only yourself.

 

Think about Step #1 and if that is even possible for you. Don't get ahead of yourself. If you can't do step one everything you try do to repair the relationship from this moment forward is under false pretenses and ultimately will not result in healing your marriage.

 

You, me, therapists, family, the president of the United States can NOT make your husband change into the man you need him to be. Only he can do that, and only if he wants to. Accept that as law.

 

I wish you the best and I apologize again for being snippy. Take care.

[Betterthanthis13]

One final thought- his treatment of you in the marriage pre-A could be considered abusive. I'm sure it felt like abuse.

 

An abused person needs help, support, healing... They reach out for those things when they want to get better. Unfortunately, many abused people who do not confront and deal with the abuse they suffered run the risk of turning into abusers themselves.

 

Your reaction to his abuse was to turn into an abuser and cheat. Infidelity is a form of covert abuse.

 

Being abused doesn't excuse abusive behavior.

 

If someone was beat as a child, they should get help and recover from it. Unfortunately many times they do not, and as adults they become abusers themselves. They abuse their own kids, and the cycle continues.

 

That isn't something I made up in my head or something I am condemning you for. It is real and it is a big problem. You can stop the cycle, but you can't look to your abuser to save you. It just won't work.

[janedoe67]

The abuse analogy makes sense. In fact, it is amazing the number of women who are physically abused who DO end up turning to an AP.

 

I was one of those unhappy spouses whose husband was fine with the status quo of...nothing so long as I didn't rock the boat. There were discussions, pleadings, promises that he never kept for years.

 

The A may have provided a few hours of warm fuzzies and maybe a bit of release.

 

But what came along with it was guilt, shame, stress, hurting someone you love, depression, conflict, kids who were in an environment of chaos, hurting of extended family, huge life and lifestyle changes that ended up affecting us all.

 

SOOOO not worth it. Looking back, I told myself I couldn't leave because I was the breadwinner with the insurance and he has a chronic health issue. BUT I really didn't leave because after all the hurt he had inflicted on me with purposeful neglect (once they know about it and continue to do it it is purposeful), if I left, I would be the bad guy, and I wasn't about to be the bad guy.

 

I guarantee if I had walked in one day with separation papers in hand and said, "You obviously do not want a wife. So you are getting your wish," that would have gotten his attention. AND I wouldn't have wreaked havoc on my entire family with an A.

 

I cannot tell you the number of times I wish I had a time machine.

[Betterthanthis13]

The abuse analogy makes sense. In fact, it is amazing the number of women who are physically abused who DO end up turning to an AP.

 

I was one of those unhappy spouses whose husband was fine with the status quo of...nothing so long as I didn't rock the boat. There were discussions, pleadings, promises that he never kept for years.

 

The A may have provided a few hours of warm fuzzies and maybe a bit of release.

 

But what came along with it was guilt, shame, stress, hurting someone you love, depression, conflict, kids who were in an environment of chaos, hurting of extended family, huge life and lifestyle changes that ended up affecting us all.

 

SOOOO not worth it. Looking back, I told myself I couldn't leave because I was the breadwinner with the insurance and he has a chronic health issue. BUT I really didn't leave because after all the hurt he had inflicted on me with purposeful neglect (once they know about it and continue to do it it is purposeful), if I left, I would be the bad guy, and I wasn't about to be the bad guy.

 

I guarantee if I had walked in one day with separation papers in hand and said, "You obviously do not want a wife. So you are getting your wish," that would have gotten his attention. AND I wouldn't have wreaked havoc on my entire family with an A.

 

I cannot tell you the number of times I wish I had a time machine.

 

I think I'm treading on thin ice with that one, taking my chances at really pissing off some BS's on here, but it makes sense to me.

 

Even if the abuse was only perceived abuse and the BS was nothing but a loving caring human being, I think this cycle could still take place. That is farfetched, though.

 

The tough part is getting both a BS and a WS to disconnect the WS's choice of cheating from the marriage problems and possible abuse pre-A. I strongly believe that is the singular most important concept that keeps WS's in perpetual justification mode, BS's in post A agony, and nullifies any attempts at healing.

 

Even if R is not the chosen path, I still think this is the most important concept to fully internalize. WS, BS, AP- nobody will ever truly heal or be good for a new monogamous relationship until they understand this concept, believe it, learn from it, and adapt it into their belief system.

Edited July 22, 2013 by Betterthanthis13

[janedoe67]

I agree. If a WS cannot make the distinction, then they continue to spin out the justification of I cheated because HE (fill in the blank). No, we cheated because we chose to deal with (fill in the blank) by cheating/betraying/deceiving. It was MY choice and I wasn't forced to make it.

 

If a BS cannot make that distinction, then they get so caught up in making sure the WS isn't justifying that they are incapable of hearing that there were any marital issues at all. OR the marital issues never get addressed.

 

If someone is starving, it is still wrong to steal. They could choose instead to ask for food or go to a food bank or a homeless shelter. Stealing is wrong no matter how hungry they are. They need to own that choice to steal.

 

If they go home after paying the price for stealing, however, and all the food is STILL locked up in the cabinets and no one will feed them, then that's a problem. The original problem of starving is still there. That is when the person with all the locks either needs to open them, or the starving person needs to say, "Hey, I can't stay where all the food is locked up so I'm leaving before I starve to death."

[Betterthanthis13]

I agree. If a WS cannot make the distinction, then they continue to spin out the justification of I cheated because HE (fill in the blank). No, we cheated because we chose to deal with (fill in the blank) by cheating/betraying/deceiving. It was MY choice and I wasn't forced to make it.

 

If a BS cannot make that distinction, then they get so caught up in making sure the WS isn't justifying that they are incapable of hearing that there were any marital issues at all. OR the marital issues never get addressed.

 

If someone is starving, it is still wrong to steal. They could choose instead to ask for food or go to a food bank or a homeless shelter. Stealing is wrong no matter how hungry they are. They need to own that choice to steal.

 

If they go home after paying the price for stealing, however, and all the food is STILL locked up in the cabinets and no one will feed them, then that's a problem. The original problem of starving is still there. That is when the person with all the locks either needs to open them, or the starving person needs to say, "Hey, I can't stay where all the food is locked up so I'm leaving before I starve to death."

 

Awesome metaphor! (Analogy? Similie? whatever I love those!

 

I'd take it one step further to include the 3rd person in the triangle, the AP. If they don't get that concept, whether the WS goes back to BS or chooses to divorce and start a life with AP, or neither, the AP is doomed as well. He or she has their own bucket of problems an mind****s from the A to deal with, and again this is the starting point. On the OW/OM board, most of them want an exclusive relationship to be the result of the A. And if that doesn't happen, they want a faithful monogamous relationship in the future with someone else. So if they can't make that leap from "understanding why WS did it, after all" to seeing the choice to cheat clearly and rationally, they will remain damaged and unsuitable for monogamy.

[So happy together]

I think sometimes people have affairs because to them, it feels like they are trying to not hurt the spouse. I know that sounds counterintuitive, but it's possible.

 

I think that sometimes people are so fundamentally unhappy in their marriage but just have so many road blocks to leaving, they feel trapped. They are unhappy and think if they embark on an affair they can have some happiness in their life and still stay with the person who needs them

 

My bf's stbxw is very broken. At the very beginning of the A he talked about being afraid to leave for fear she could not take care of herself. By the time he left, he just realized she'd have to handle it as he just couldn't stay in a toxic relationship anymore.

 

I don't know if it's right or wrong, but that was his thinking, regardless. He had a great need to leave and make things right for us, but also for his stbxw, because she really needed to step up and become a functioning person. I don't know if she'll ever do that. It looks like she'll be moving in with her parents who are also raging alcoholics.

 

Someone mentioned having an affair if your spouse was in a long term coma, etc... I think in our situation, it almost felt like that for my bf. And maybe it's not okay to even have a relationship even if your spouse is in a coma... I just don't know.

 

Anyway, Just something I was thinking about.

Edited July 22, 2013 by So happy together

[HopingAgain]

I agree. If a WS cannot make the distinction, then they continue to spin out the justification of I cheated because HE (fill in the blank). No, we cheated because we chose to deal with (fill in the blank) by cheating/betraying/deceiving. It was MY choice and I wasn't forced to make it.

 

If a BS cannot make that distinction, then they get so caught up in making sure the WS isn't justifying that they are incapable of hearing that there were any marital issues at all. OR the marital issues never get addressed.

 

If someone is starving, it is still wrong to steal. They could choose instead to ask for food or go to a food bank or a homeless shelter. Stealing is wrong no matter how hungry they are. They need to own that choice to steal.

 

If they go home after paying the price for stealing, however, and all the food is STILL locked up in the cabinets and no one will feed them, then that's a problem. The original problem of starving is still there. That is when the person with all the locks either needs to open them, or the starving person needs to say, "Hey, I can't stay where all the food is locked up so I'm leaving before I starve to death."

 

This really presents the quandry between seperating issues caused by the affair and issues already present in the marriage so clearly. It can be extremely difficult to untangle the 2 and keep them seperate and deal with each accordingly. I think for a BS, even a WS, part of the trouble is that the pain from the affair is so fresh and intense, it demands all the attention, at least initially. It seems to push the already existing marital issues to the back burner. Very difficult to deal with both simultaneously.

[Betterthanthis13]

I think sometimes people have affairs because to them, it feels like they are trying to not hurt the spouse. I know that sounds counterintuitive, but it's possible.

 

I think that sometimes people are so fundamentally unhappy in their marriage but just have so many road blocks to leaving, they feel trapped. They are unhappy and think if they embark on an affair they can have some happiness in their life and still stay with the person who needs them

 

My bf's stbxw is very broken. At the very beginning of the A he talked about being afraid to leave for fear she could not take care of herself. By the time he left, he just realized she'd have to handle it as he just couldn't stay in a toxic relationship anymore.

 

I don't know if it's right or wrong, but that was his thinking, regardless. He had a great need to leave and make things right for us, but also for his stbxw, because she really needed to step up and become a functioning person. I don't know if she'll ever do that. It looks like she'll be moving in with her parents who are also raging alcoholics.

 

Someone mentioned having an affair if your spouse was in a long term coma, etc... I think in our situation, it almost felt like that for my bf. And maybe it's not okay to even have a relationship even if your spouse is in a coma... I just don't know.

 

Anyway, Just something I was thinking about.

 

I took a medical ethics class in college and this one example seems relevant here: the topic was euthanasia.

 

It was something like this,

Doctors aren't allowed to end their patients lives. It is illegal. If they do it and get caught, they face jail time and losing their license. If a doctor has a terminal patient who is in such excruciating pain that their only wish is to die, what should he do?

 

He should not risk not being able to help more patients by going to jail, so assisted suicide was the consensus from the class. Give the patient the information he needs to do it himself.

 

Ok said the teacher, and gave us a case study where one patient had been so badly burned with 3rd degree burns over his entire body, all his limbs had to be amputated, he was in constant unbearable pain 24/7, but was not on life support so a DNR would not help. He was going to live, indefinitely, in this pain. We watched a video of him begging and pleading to the courts to allow his doctor to administer a lethal injection. It was denied. The entire class was crying hysterically from watching this video.

 

He could not kill himself. He had no limbs and had to be fed through a feeding tube.

 

Now what should the doctor do?

 

After a week or two of debate, the final consensus was, it's worth losing the license and going to jail. The jury and the medical board will probably be lenient. Put him out of his misery.

 

Not fair to the doctor who worked hard his whole life studying for that medical license, and just wants to do the right thing. But attending to that patient every day was slowly killing the doc anyway.

 

The only other camp in class was, this should NOT be illegal! It's not fair. The doctor should be able to give him the lethal injection and not have to have any consequences!

 

Problem with that? Now all euthanasia is legal at a doctors discretion. Think of how bad that could be. Other option- it's illegal, but in an extreme case can be brought in front of a judge for an exception.

 

Sounds good, but what are the criteria for administering death to a patient? Also a road to trouble.

 

Final conclusion- sometimes the punishment is worth committing the crime for. That does not make the action, however noble, not a crime.

 

It's the same logic puzzle as the choice to cheat.

[janedoe67]

I think for a BS, even a WS, part of the trouble is that the pain from the affair is so fresh and intense, it demands all the attention, at least initially.

 

This to me is a key and something WS's need to understand. The marital problems might be a chronic condition, like COPD. The A is an acute event, like a massive heart attack. If you are in the ER, which one are they going to address first? The massive heart attack.

 

A WS has to understand that healing from the massive event has to take priority in the beginning. My own personal inward rule of thumb is that a WS should put pre-A marital issues totally on the back burner for 6 months to a year and devote all energy to helping the BS heal and begin to be able to feel safe. I don't have some business model or guru to back that up, it's just a gut thing.

[So happy together]

I took a medical ethics class in college and this one example seems relevant here: the topic was euthanasia.

 

It was something like this,

Doctors aren't allowed to end their patients lives. It is illegal. If they do it and get caught, they face jail time and losing their license. If a doctor has a terminal patient who is in such excruciating pain that their only wish is to die, what should he do?

 

He should not risk not being able to help more patients by going to jail, so assisted suicide was the consensus from the class. Give the patient the information he needs to do it himself.

 

Ok said the teacher, and gave us a case study where one patient had been so badly burned with 3rd degree burns over his entire body, all his limbs had to be amputated, he was in constant unbearable pain 24/7, but was not on life support so a DNR would not help. He was going to live, indefinitely, in this pain. We watched a video of him begging and pleading to the courts to allow his doctor to administer a lethal injection. It was denied. The entire class was crying hysterically from watching this video.

 

He could not kill himself. He had no limbs and had to be fed through a feeding tube.

 

Now what should the doctor do?

 

After a week or two of debate, the final consensus was, it's worth losing the license and going to jail. The jury and the medical board will probably be lenient. Put him out of his misery.

 

Not fair to the doctor who worked hard his whole life studying for that medical license, and just wants to do the right thing. But attending to that patient every day was slowly killing the doc anyway.

 

The only other camp in class was, this should NOT be illegal! It's not fair. The doctor should be able to give him the lethal injection and not have to have any consequences!

 

Problem with that? Now all euthanasia is legal at a doctors discretion. Think of how bad that could be. Other option- it's illegal, but in an extreme case can be brought in front of a judge for an exception.

 

Sounds good, but what are the criteria for administering death to a patient? Also a road to trouble.

 

Final conclusion- sometimes the punishment is worth committing the crime for. That does not make the action, however noble, not a crime.

 

It's the same logic puzzle as the choice to cheat.

 

I do understand your point. But the fact is, it still happens. It is also a little difficult to equate the two because people have different moral values. So it's really hard to just have any sort of black and white.

[So happy together]

This to me is a key and something WS's need to understand. The marital problems might be a chronic condition, like COPD. The A is an acute event, like a massive heart attack. If you are in the ER, which one are they going to address first? The massive heart attack.

 

A WS has to understand that healing from the massive event has to take priority in the beginning. My own personal inward rule of thumb is that a WS should put pre-A marital issues totally on the back burner for 6 months to a year and devote all energy to helping the BS heal and begin to be able to feel safe. I don't have some business model or guru to back that up, it's just a gut thing.

 

OR... WS should leave. Go to where he is happy. And leave BS to find happiness also.

[ladydesigner]

OR... WS should leave. Go to where he is happy. And leave BS to find happiness also.

 

I agree with this. It is this part that is sick and has made me sick throughout this experience. It got to a point where I didn't want my WS anymore because the back and forth was just too much for me and I deserved to be loved and respected. The cake eating WS is the worst.

[Betterthanthis13]

OR... WS should leave. Go to where he is happy. And leave BS to find happiness also.

 

Do you believe that the majority of A's involve a WS who is having an affair because he/she has met a true love of their life and really wants to leave the BS but cannot for some unfortunate circumstance, or that the WS made a mistake and really loves their BW? Or neither, or whatever you think on the topic.

 

50/50? 70/30? 10/90? %

[MissBee]

Do you believe that the majority of A's involve a WS who is having an affair because he/she has met a true love of their life and really wants to leave the BS but cannot for some unfortunate circumstance, or that the WS made a mistake and really loves their BW? Or neither, or whatever you think on the topic.

 

50/50? 70/30? 10/90? %

 

Good question!

 

In my opinion, I do not think majority of As are because the MP met their true love in their AP.

[So happy together]

Good question!

 

In my opinion, I do not think majority of As are because the MP met their true love in their AP.

 

You would be shocked.

[sweet_pea]

You would be shocked.

 

Why do you think that? Do you really think that in most affairs, the MP meets their one, true love in their AP?

[MissBee]

You would be shocked.

 

What would I be shocked about?

 

I am not saying that can never happen...but knowing human nature and the research out their on relationships and infidelity, there is more evidence to the fact that monogamy is a choice, i.e. you can still be attracted to and if you allow it, fall inlove with other people, even when committed, as our capacity to develop new attractions and the appeal of new romance doesn't go away when committed. Therefore there is nothing magical about liking other people and getting into an affair, esp if your marriage is on the rocks. However, the idea of a "true love" and it surprisingly being your affair partner, seems to be a romantic comedy script, and not true to the more mundane realities of human psychology and relationships.

[So happy together]

What would I be shocked about?

 

I am not saying that can never happen...but knowing human nature and the research out their on relationships and infidelity, there is more evidence to the fact that monogamy is a choice, i.e. you can still be attracted to and if you allow it, fall inlove with other people, even when committed, as our capacity to develop new attractions and the appeal of new romance doesn't go away when committed. Therefore there is nothing magical about liking other people and getting into an affair, esp if your marriage is on the rocks. However, the idea of a "true love" and it surprisingly being your affair partner, seems to be a romantic comedy script, and not true to the more mundane realities of human psychology and relationships.

 

Well this is where you lost me. It happens. I know of several. And they are HAPPY. Not just "oh we've been married for x years so here we are" but "Oh my god, I couldn't live without this person. My life is complete. I suppose you are just on the wrong forum to hear these stories. They exist. Lots. I am one of MANY.

[sweet_pea]

Well this is where you lost me. It happens. I know of several. And they are HAPPY. Not just "oh we've been married for x years so here we are" but "Oh my god, I couldn't live without this person. My life is complete. I suppose you are just on the wrong forum to hear these stories. They exist. Lots. I am one of MANY.

 

How do you know they're happy? After all, we don't know what happens behind closed doors...

 

Anywho, I know of several MP/AP couples that weren't successful. So, I could also say that while yes they exist, there aren't lots, ya know? I think it's really just who you surround yourself with and are drawn to. Of course, you seem to only hang out with those who are seemingly happy in their new found relationships, so it will seem like a lot. While, another may hang out with reconciled couples or those who are no longer with their AP and thus, it will seem like not a lot of successful MP/AP couples. There are many forums to support both points, I think.

[Betterthanthis13]

Better... I want you to know firstly that I love your posts. They are insightful, articulate and interesting. Secondly... I just don't know. The thing is this: The people on this forum are of a certain 'variety'. They are the ones that struggle. Not all, but a lot.

 

On the other hand you have all of those, and I mean ALL... A LOT, who don't post here because they are happy. They are doing well, don't need a support system, whether that be BS, WS, or OW/OM. So really the small taste we get on this forum is slanted one way. It's not a true visual of society at large. I'm sorry, it just isn't.

 

Oh totally. We aren't seeing a microcosm of society at large on LS- we are seeing people with bad problems, who are so isolated that they get to the point of reaching out to an online forum, who like to communicate through the written word. Skewed? Definitely.

 

Fubar? Maybe, hehe. Thats how most people got here, right? thats how i did. I am just some chick with heinous problems that needed to vent, initially... Somehow that morphed into a raging curiosity and interest in all things infidelity. Most of what I'm posting about now is out of genuine interest in other people's point of view- I love to analyze things and come up with opinions, but I'm certainly no expert on anything except my own experiences.

 

that's why I'm curious about your opinion

 

I'm not trying to prove anything. I'm trying to learn, because I am aware I have a tendency to think I'm right and that's that. I'm trying to achieve better for myself. I have no hidden agenda.

 

I do like to debate though, I won't deny that. Not because I want to "win", but because I truly believe if you don't take an objective look at all sides, you are moving away from the truth instead of closer to it. Nobody learns anything from talking to people who agree with them all the time.

[MissBee]

Well this is where you lost me. It happens. I know of several. And they are HAPPY. Not just "oh we've been married for x years so here we are" but "Oh my god, I couldn't live without this person. My life is complete. I suppose you are just on the wrong forum to hear these stories. They exist. Lots. I am one of MANY.

 

What are you lost about? You said it happens and I said it happens too. The point isn't whether or not it happens, but to what extent. As Betterthan asked, what's the ratio? 50% are of this variety, 70% 20%? My guess was I doubt it is anything like 50% or over. Are you arguing for the opposite, that you think 50% or more of affairs are about true love? I find the true love concept itself dubious...hence pointed to how relationships work in general and that I don't believe in "one true love" but our ability o choose to be monogamous, and turning down the other romantic attractions we can develop. An A in my mind is usually you developing another romantic attraction, which isn't about "true love", but a human possibility, which may be no more special than any other bf/gf you have liked in the past.

 

I have said in the past, that LS represents a subset of people who post on forums. Many people are in affairs who are unhappy and going through the same stuff but they just don't post on forums, don't have internet, all kinds of things. Before LS there was still research being done on affairs, magazine articles, movies, friends talking to friends, and many were just as unhappy, likewise, some aren't and are happy and fine.

 

On OW-Only forums...it's worse! Seems many OW on an open forum don't let on about their fears and unhappiness for fear of being told to leave the MM, but on the OW-only boards, whining, complaining, being fearful, drama, being unhappy is amplified without filter to say that's how they feel...sprinkled with some happiness...but mostly a back and forth rollercoaster.

 

I think some OW present the idea that in "real life" more OW are happy than not and LS is a false picture. Erm...I had an A in real life, my friend did, my professor confided in me she did, my dad had many, and many other people did, and many had the same unhappiness, complaining, drama and didn't end up with the MM either. So for me, based on what I know in real life, LS seems to represent the same ratio: most As are drama and the MP stays put and then some people get what they want from it. But I dunno..."happy OW" seem to always belong to a culture where As or normal or where everyone they know is in some happy A turned open relationship.

Edited July 23, 2013 by MissBee

[jlola]

You would be shocked.

 

So when a man or woman is single they have to kiss a lot of Frogs to find the right one. But of course in an affair MAGIC happens. as soon as they are unavailable and married, the first person they meet when they are attached is their soulmate.

 

What is the likelyhood of that? It is the situation of an affair that creates drama,longing,fantasy that helps to create that soulmate feeling. Like 2 teenagers who are forbidden to see each other.

 

Happy, not meaning to be disrespectful, but you are still living in fantasyland with your MM.

 

You have 4 children. That right there will make it a difficult adjustment. He has 1 grown child. Now he has to go raising more and we never know how the whole dynamics of this new life will be handled. Reality may not be what you or he imagined,nor you.

 

Living day to day with children who are not his will cut on the romance drastically. You can say all you want about your "successful" relationship now. But till this man is living in a home with you and your 4 children and all is going well, we cannot call this a "success"!

Edited July 23, 2013 by jlola

[2sure]

You would be shocked.

 

Most of the OW on here have said or probably thought that MM would be cheating with or without her. "if it were not me, he would be cheating with someone else" . To get what he needs emotionally or physically or Because the marriage was all but over.

 

If he would be cheating with someone else anyway....it means true love has nothing to do with it. Available, that's the main attraction.