Differences in BS's pain level

[Betterthanthis13]

I don't think anyone can know for sure what does or doesn't cause a particular outward reaction. Sometimes the really tough stuff takes awhile to sink in. If I were a faithful BS, the idea that I was shady because I didn't wig out would really rub me the wrong.

 

Very true but outward reaction is totally different from how much pain someone is actually experiencing. Someone could be acting all sorts of outraged and "how could they do this to me" but be experiencing very little emotional trauma, while another could be dying inside and keeping up appearances.

[Trimmer]

Hmm so people think my shady people don't react badly to the discovery of betrayal theory is either offensive to BS's or wrong.

I think there's a logical twist that many people may be working with here.

 

If you're truly only saying that shady people wouldn't generally react so badly... then that's one thing.

 

But I think people may be inferring the converse: If you don't react badly, then that implies that you must be shady.

 

Without necessarily weighing in on the first one, I'd say that I completely disagree with the second one, as a lack of outward affect (and yes, I'm using that in its noun form) or even inward reaction, could be due to many reasons including "shut down" type defense mechanisms, somebody who's been beaten up so much they just give up, etc...

[Betterthanthis13]

I think there's a logical twist that many people may be working with here.

 

If you're truly only saying that shady people wouldn't generally react so badly... then that's one thing.

 

But I think people may be inferring the converse: If you don't react badly, then that implies that you must be shady.

 

Without necessarily weighing in on the first one, I'd say that I completely disagree with the second one, as a lack of outward affect (and yes, I'm using that in its noun form) or even inward reaction, could be due to many reasons including "shut down" type defense mechanisms, somebody who's been beaten up so much they just give up, etc...

 

You are exponentially better at explaining things in logic-speak than I am. It's all sorted out in my head the way you are explaining it, I'm just not expressing it coherently. Can I telepathically submit my questions to you from now on and have you ask them for me so I don't jumble them up and stick my foot in my mouth please? Thanks

[Eggplant]

This may get me in trouble with some folks, but I think a certain portion of people live in a Pollyanna-ish wonderland. Those people take it on the chin and take it hard. They just can't handle the fact that their spouse might fall for someone else and act on it. Completely devastated.

 

Others I think realize that people go through changes over the course of life and may take trips down another path for awhile. These folks get over it a good bit easier. As long as the unit is still intact they can deal with a few problems.

 

I view it as a look into the absolutist mind versus the non-absolutist mind.

 

I will add that this is not something the person can control. It is innate.

 

I think some personalities are more likely to take a Pollyanna approach. The Pollyanna approach is a high-stakes, high-risk approach. You trust somebody. If you're wrong, you're shattered. If you're right, you experience great happiness. The "realist" approach is safer. You don't get as hurt, but you also don't reach as high.

[Spark1111]

I think there are ALL types of marriages....some ARE contracts where you pay the bills, I'll raise the kids and together we maintain the status quo....

 

Those BS may not be as affected by their spouse's infidelity as long as the apple cart is not overturned. I know them and have spoken with them. Not that big a deal to them. Painful, but they moved on quickly after discovery.

 

This Pollyanna deeply, passionately married for LOVE and trusted him blindly and completely. I married the only man on the planet that I felt completely safe with; that trusted blindly that HE ALWAYS had my back.

 

The longest we went without hot sex was 13 days AFTER he had major spinal surgery and that INCLUDES the births of our three children.

 

His affair devastated me....to the core...and took me YEARS to overcome.

 

I LOVED him enough to let him go if he felt he found better elsewhere and told him so often. His LYING to me just about did me in. He never had to.

[Spark1111]

I think some personalities are more likely to take a Pollyanna approach. The Pollyanna approach is a high-stakes, high-risk approach. You trust somebody. If you're wrong, you're shattered. If you're right, you experience great happiness. The "realist" approach is safer. You don't get as hurt, but you also don't reach as high.

 

EXACTLY! Without complete trust, there cannot be true intimacy. Without true intimacy, the emotional and physical attraction is not as strong...

 

So, for me, what is the point? FWBs is as good as it gets. I choose to risk more to feel more.

 

And yes, you risk great pain when you do open your heart to that extent, but for me, that is the only way to have the greatest joy.

[waterwoman]

Oh well, I guess I must be a Pollyanna. Actually I know I am. Not just in love, in life in general. I assume the best of people, and you know what? in 47 years I had never been proved wrong. I honestly beleive that you get what you give - approach someone with an open, generous heart and you get openess and generosity back . Even in the depth of my depressions I assumed people were fundamentally decent and well-meaning.

 

DDay shattered my world. But it's mending again, exponentially faster. I still think the world is a beautiful place and that MOST people are decent and well-meaning and I am perhaps more forgiving of faults. If my H and his OW, who are both good people at heart, can f*ck up so spectacularly, anyone can. I just feel a little less special myself as if the affair tainted me a bit. And there is a little spring of anger inside me that never was there before.

[dichotomy]

Omg your sticking around for a third time?

 

 

Ha!...no...each time was in a different marriage. Affairs were different types though.

 

I think maybe what I was trying to say to OP's theory was that I have become more jadded each time and less affected by it. Shaddy would not be right term, but certainly my shock and awe over infidelity and affairs has dwindled and MAYBE I simply have lost some moral fiber or something, or I don't care as much, or simply would shrug now if I was cheated on again a third time.....and as I have posted elsewhere, I think I have maybe I value it less myself because no one I have loved values it - society does not seem to care much anymore about cheaters. hmmm...does that make me shaddy if I start to feel this way as well (a tiny bit)?

[janedoe67]

I know this is not completely on topic, but your question and the mention of Pollyanna has me thinking (which is a good thing). What if it is the WS who has the Pollyanna thinking and the BS who is more of the "realist" or pragmatic one? I am absolutely the Pollyanna thinker. I always figured if you're gonna love, then love with abandon for all you've got. And when I realized that was not anywhere close to the kind of love I was ever going to receive....my world just toppled. I wonder if my Pollyanna view and realizing how real life would be for me made me more vulnerable to an A. NOT blaming that for the A, but maybe that particular quirk in me made me more vulnerable?

 

OK, I will leave that because it isn't really on topic, but I wanted to type it somewhere so I would remember it.

[Betterthanthis13]

It doesn't have to do with a BS being shady to be less affected.

 

Even though it will always hurt, or in some cases simply piss off a BS, for me I know that I will be less hurt in the future because I have dealt with it already.

 

I'm more guarded with my emotions and feelings. When I was younger and naive, it hurt like hell.

 

Now older and wiser, it might still hurt, but not more than it will anger me and I simply won't stand for it. Will leave and never look back.

 

I regret my poorly worded prior post. It was a half baked thought and didn't reflect the depth of the question I had in mind. I still don't know if I can properly express my question if that makes any sense.

 

So new question to you- would you give me the advice as a "Pollyanna" type, recent BS, to become more guarded in the future since that was the path you chose? Other posters say they would rather love completely and trust completely and take the risk on devastating heartbreak again.

[Betterthanthis13]

Not sure if I can tell you how to be more guarded. I think its something you either do or don't do.

 

It may be because I'm a man that it is easier for me to be guarded.

 

I'll be honest, during Dday, I was hurt by what my x-wife did. But that hurt turned into anger. Once that happened, from that point on my heart was hardened and I decided I wasn't going to let anyone hurt me again.

 

Maybe thats the key, you need to get angry.

 

I am angry- and I am leaving, I'm getting my ducks in a row now to get out of this mess. I'm just not sure if in the future I want to be guarded with my partner so they can't hurt me, or trust them completely and possibly go through this again.

 

I feel like if I am capable of being trustworthy then there have to be other people who are also capable of it. But the ones who arent trustworthy are damn good liars. It's such a messed up system. Add in society's nonchalant attitude towards infidelity and it is a gamble. Like playing blackjack, only with my heart.

[Betrayed&Stayed]

Discovering you have been betrayed is always painful. It seems like some people are shaken to the core and totally devastated, sometimes even suicidal or homicidal, while others heal faster and are less emotionally wounded. Lots of reasons, what do you think is the main one for the differences in pain levels between BS's after DDay?

 

First thing that comes to mind for me is how shocked they are by the lies and deceit. If the BS is the type of person who is faithful, honest and genuine, and believes their spouse is faithful, honest and genuine, then the shock is so overwhelming it can cause a complete meltdown and psychotic break.

 

The more shady of a person the BS is, the less they are affected.

 

I think that pain level is dependent on how much the BS invested in the marriage, and how "out of the blue" the affair was.

 

My wife's affair broke me. I believe that I understand why it broke me the way that it did. I've discussed this in IC following D-day. Here are my findings:

 

1 - I was blindsided. (Granted I was told about A 8 yrs after it ended) It would've been different if we were in a rocky marriage. When the affair started we had just celebrated our 2nd anniversary. We were happy. We had passionate sex regularly. We were getting along well. We were best friends. Even on D-day (8 yrs later) we were viewed as the perfect couple. I viewed our marriage as one of the better ones. After 10 yrs of marriage I thought that I knew my wife. I had been a good husband for all of these years. Like Seren mentioned, I would’ve bet my life that my wife was not capable of cheating on me. The few friends that know of my wife’s affair were absolutely shocked when they were informed.

 

2 – My worldview was shattered. How I viewed my wife was destroyed. How I viewed my marriage and family was destroyed. My trusting nature was wiped away. I realized that I was naïve and grew up thinking as long as I played by the rules than I would be okay. If I treat people with respect, than they would treat me with respect in return. I was wrong.

 

 

3 – Value of Marriage/Self-Identity. I did not take marriage lightly. I said “I do” with full commitment. I placed a large amount of value on our marriage and me being a good husband. My self-worth and self-identity was built on being a good husband, having a strong marriage, and raising my children. Being a family-man was my top priority and how I valued myself as a human being.

 

4 – Trust & Betrayal. Until D-day I was a very trusting person by nature. I trusted my wife, and believed that she would have my back. Betrayal is a bitter pill to swallow. It comes not from an enemy, but from a loved one.

 

5 – Love Language. My love language is Physical Touch. This adds depth to the cut to the heart. This adds potency to the sexual triggers. What I cherished (physical intimacy) with my wife has been tainted. It has been cheapened. And for what? For cheap thrills with a guy that she only knew for a month or so.

 

Over the years I’ve had to do a major paradigm shift on how I view the world, marriage, and my wife.

[krazikat]

I am angry- and I am leaving, I'm getting my ducks in a row now to get out of this mess. I'm just not sure if in the future I want to be guarded with my partner so they can't hurt me, or trust them completely and possibly go through this again.

 

I feel like if I am capable of being trustworthy then there have to be other people who are also capable of it. But the ones who arent trustworthy are damn good liars. It's such a messed up system. Add in society's nonchalant attitude towards infidelity and it is a gamble. Like playing blackjack, only with my heart.

 

Omg yes. My view has changed as well. I have never cheated in any relationship...yet I have been cheated on. And cheaters.can be damn good liars...my H, who I dedicated myself to, lied so easily to me for so long and I believed him because I could never see myself cheating. When I was cheated on before I left and didnt look back...yet this time, which was the worst betrayal of all, I find myself staying. There are reasons, but still my first reaction, after flipping out, was to call a divorce attorney and get to stepping. But then, after seeing his immediate change and considering many things I stayed.

 

But my view of people has changed. My trust has changed. I now look at the people around me and wonder who has cheated and who has been cheated on? Who has been an AP?

 

I have been reading a book called "The Other Woman" which is a collection of short, true life stories involving cheating from all angles, from BS to WS to even children who witnessed a parents A. It is very interesting. And sad.

 

Why does society glamourize infidelity? All the lies involved are not glamorous. If one doesnt want a monogomous relationship, why not be honest? Find a spouse who is ok with an open M. No one should have the truth of their marriage, their life, hidden. To be hostage to a lie.

[findingnemo]

I am no Pollyanna. I knew that the romance I read about in novels was fiction. I had already had my heart broken by xMM. I loved my H with reservation. As a W, I knew that any OW my H ever got would get almost nothing and that unless she was psychotic, she wouldn't take away much from me.

 

And yet the first time I found out, I was really really hurt. It took me a while to analyze what had hurt me. It was the lies, the playing me for a complete idiot and the humiliation when my friends told me about it. I was scared for my kids and our life as a family. It wasn't my idea of perfect but I had worked really hard at making a home. I had compromised so much of my personal freedom for my H. He had so many needs I sometimes felt like he was one of my kids. And the bagger went and had an A. Well if you had interacted with me then, you'd think everything was just fine. I found it near impossible to express my anger except to ignore him completely.

 

Then he did it again. But I hadn't even began to heal from the first one. This time I felt anger, rage. I adopted what I call the French Attitude and what in my culture is called a Walking Stick. Every time he cheated and I caught him, I got something I really wanted out of it. For a time, I was calling all the shots. As for R to the point of trusting him, it never happened.

 

I don't trust people who say they love me to not still sleep with someone else. XMM did. He cheated on his W. My xH did...and in one case with a person that I could never have suspected in our home.

 

I don't think being cheated on can break me. I broke a long time ago. I am much better off accepting that it happens and dealing with it when it does.

[grassisorisntgreener]

 

Why does society glamourize infidelity? All the lies involved are not glamorous. If one doesnt want a monogomous relationship, why not be honest? Find a spouse who is ok with an open M. No one should have the truth of their marriage, their life, hidden. To be hostage to a lie.

 

I don't find this to be true. I don't think anyone glamorizes affairs. In the media and even in television, it's always taboo.

[thecharade]

Hi, Better-

 

I posted to you in OW/OM forum, but the path of this thread really interests me. I had an A, I put myself into IC, I ended the A (my H doesn't know), I began to assert myself in my M and found my 'need' for my AP diminishing, my H saw how serious I was about my needs and got into IC himself (or I was divorcing him), and then we began MC. I am working very, very hard to understand and heal both myself and my M, and my H is now doing the same. These events cause me to reflect on marriage and cause me to scrutinize and analyze all the couples I know. I am desperate to find marital "role models," whatever that means, but it has been impossible. Why is that????

 

This leads to your topic. I am in a people related field and find people coming to me for advice on a daily basis. People trust my honesty and guidance. (Irony? Yes, but these same qualities helped me to reach for solutions in my life, even if it was a little after the fact.) Because people share with me so frequently, I am always seeing how perfectly imperfect almost everyone's relationship is! Often, they realize it. But equally often, they don't!!!

 

One guy speaks endlessly about the virtues of his wife, but at the same time, he is paying a lot of attention to other females as of late. Suggestive comments. Touchy feely. This was not who he was for the 15 years prior. When I told him of my concerns, he stated, "Jane knows I'd never cheat on her. We're great! No worries." I beg to differ. If he finds a willing female, he's done. I can tell. He's "ripe" for an A, unfortunately. (After one too many cocktails a couple months ago, he admitted as much.)

 

There is another woman I know in a deeply abusive marriage. He has hit her, but more common is the insulting, belittling, and degrading. What does she say, though? Her marriage is good and her H is "great!"

 

My own parents. Neither have cheated (to the best of my knowledge) but neither have ever been very satisfied in life either. They vent their frustrations to me, their child. (Yuck.) But their codependency has kept them tied together, mutually held back by each other's dysfunction. They tell people they are "so happy" though.

 

Here are my questions then:

 

1. If you think your marriage is perfect because of your own blinders and dysfunction, then is it perfect? Is your reality real? Or are you a Pollyana who could be destroyed at any second?

 

2. If one person thinks the marriage is great but their spouse is unhappy, is the person truly open and willing to hearing there are problems? Or do they hide from the signs and facts and cling to their false reality? And is an A often the result?

 

3. Are the people who were truly shocked by their spouses A people who emotionally or psychologically needed their Ms, needed spouses who would 'catch them' and thus felt more devastation? Were they codependent types? Had they been using (needing) the M to fill them up instead of being self-reliant and independent selves?

 

4. Are strong, healthy partners as "shocked" by As as codependent or needy partners? Are open-minded partners as shocked?

 

5. Are hurt and shock the same thing? I would be very, very hurt if my H cheated, but I would not be shocked. It happens. People cheat. So where does the shock come from? Do people feel hurt and call it shock?

 

6. When people say others thought they had a perfect M, are they just kidding themselves? Does anyone have a perfect M? Does anyone ever think anyone else does?

 

I could go on and on. I have formed some of my own answers, but I think that the honesty after a crisis does bring an authenticity, and BSs are not lying when they say that. I also believe people are often willfully naïve, but that being jaded can indicate living with more honesty which most say leads to intimacy. So for me, I prefer the marriage I am achieving now over the "perfect" one my H and others always believed we had. It's more real, even if fantasyland (of the pre-A marriage, not the A, but same concepts apply) was prettier. My H is an avoider, so he believed "prettier" was better. Until he started living "ickier but more real." Now he knows what he was missing all along, when he was telling people we had the Perfect Marriage.

[BHsigh]

Oh well, I guess I must be a Pollyanna. Actually I know I am. Not just in love, in life in general. I assume the best of people, and you know what? in 47 years I had never been proved wrong. I honestly beleive that you get what you give - approach someone with an open, generous heart and you get openess and generosity back . Even in the depth of my depressions I assumed people were fundamentally decent and well-meaning.

 

DDay shattered my world. But it's mending again, exponentially faster. I still think the world is a beautiful place and that MOST people are decent and well-meaning and I am perhaps more forgiving of faults. If my H and his OW, who are both good people at heart, can f*ck up so spectacularly, anyone can. I just feel a little less special myself as if the affair tainted me a bit. And there is a little spring of anger inside me that never was there before.

 

You're lucky, I believe that I was a Pollyanna too, but after a lifetime of being hurt I don't think I'm ready to be so again. I was proved wrong on way too many occassions. My WW's A was still the worst thing that I have ever been through, not only did she betray me, but two so called "friends" did as well, as well as the "friends" that knew about her A, and gossiped with WW about her A, all at the same time.

 

No, I finally realize that people are s**t, no matter how much I may think otherwise, I need to make myself assume that people only care about themselves, because that's what's been proven to me my whole life, ever since I was 18 months old and my parents dumped me off at my grandparents house, and my two sisters followed less than a year later.

 

I suppose that you could say that I'm bitter about people, but I refuse to take anyone at face value ever again, especially when my emotion is involved.

[krazikat]

I don't find this to be true. I don't think anyone glamorizes affairs. In the media and even in television, it's always taboo.

 

I was answering another posters question about that...there is a sense of taboo about it in some cases...but not all and there is some focus of infidelity in the media...ahhh entertainment. Just think of Scandal, for example. The plot made viewers almost wish for them to be together...

[Betterthanthis13]

I think that pain level is dependent on how much the BS invested in the marriage, and how "out of the blue" the affair was.

 

My wife's affair broke me. I believe that I understand why it broke me the way that it did. I've discussed this in IC following D-day. Here are my findings:

 

1 - I was blindsided. (Granted I was told about A 8 yrs after it ended) It would've been different if we were in a rocky marriage. When the affair started we had just celebrated our 2nd anniversary. We were happy. We had passionate sex regularly. We were getting along well. We were best friends. Even on D-day (8 yrs later) we were viewed as the perfect couple. I viewed our marriage as one of the better ones. After 10 yrs of marriage I thought that I knew my wife. I had been a good husband for all of these years. Like Seren mentioned, I would’ve bet my life that my wife was not capable of cheating on me. The few friends that know of my wife’s affair were absolutely shocked when they were informed.

 

2 – My worldview was shattered. How I viewed my wife was destroyed. How I viewed my marriage and family was destroyed. My trusting nature was wiped away. I realized that I was naïve and grew up thinking as long as I played by the rules than I would be okay. If I treat people with respect, than they would treat me with respect in return. I was wrong.

 

 

3 – Value of Marriage/Self-Identity. I did not take marriage lightly. I said “I do” with full commitment. I placed a large amount of value on our marriage and me being a good husband. My self-worth and self-identity was built on being a good husband, having a strong marriage, and raising my children. Being a family-man was my top priority and how I valued myself as a human being.

 

4 – Trust & Betrayal. Until D-day I was a very trusting person by nature. I trusted my wife, and believed that she would have my back. Betrayal is a bitter pill to swallow. It comes not from an enemy, but from a loved one.

 

5 – Love Language. My love language is Physical Touch. This adds depth to the cut to the heart. This adds potency to the sexual triggers. What I cherished (physical intimacy) with my wife has been tainted. It has been cheapened. And for what? For cheap thrills with a guy that she only knew for a month or so.

 

Over the years I’ve had to do a major paradigm shift on how I view the world, marriage, and my wife.

 

Thank you so much for this thoughtful reply- you seem to have understood the nature of my question in the OP despite my poor wording and sticking my foot in my mouth using the word "shady"

 

Looking over your categories of what you think affected your pain level, a lot of them aren't linear, where your pain level would be high and someone with the opposite experience would neccesarily have a lower pain level. For example, #1, being blindsided. Certainly being blindsided = complete shock which means high level of pain, but a BS who was NOT blindsided---- for example suspicious for a long time but being lied to and gaslighted during an A, made to feel like they were crazy, could also feel an equivalently high level of pain.

 

This was really helpful to me in my very un-scientific analysis of why some BS's don't feel as much pain as others. I still don't have any clue what the answer is, or if there even is an answer, but at least I have some new things to think about. People are so complicated.

[Betrayed&Stayed]

For example, #1, being blindsided. Certainly being blindsided = complete shock which means high level of pain, but a BS who was NOT blindsided---- for example suspicious for a long time but being lied to and gaslighted during an A, made to feel like they were crazy, could also feel an equivalently high level of pain.

 

A better way to phrase it is this made it harder for me to Accept the betrayal and deception. Some BS's can accept it better than others depending on their experiences and past relationships.

 

My background did not prepare me for adultery. It was never on my radar. My parents have been married for 50 years. My wife's parents have been married for nearly 50 years.

[Spark1111]

Hi, Better-

 

I posted to you in OW/OM forum, but the path of this thread really interests me. I had an A, I put myself into IC, I ended the A (my H doesn't know), I began to assert myself in my M and found my 'need' for my AP diminishing, my H saw how serious I was about my needs and got into IC himself (or I was divorcing him), and then we began MC. I am working very, very hard to understand and heal both myself and my M, and my H is now doing the same. These events cause me to reflect on marriage and cause me to scrutinize and analyze all the couples I know. I am desperate to find marital "role models," whatever that means, but it has been impossible. Why is that????

 

This leads to your topic. I am in a people related field and find people coming to me for advice on a daily basis. People trust my honesty and guidance. (Irony? Yes, but these same qualities helped me to reach for solutions in my life, even if it was a little after the fact.) Because people share with me so frequently, I am always seeing how perfectly imperfect almost everyone's relationship is! Often, they realize it. But equally often, they don't!!!

 

One guy speaks endlessly about the virtues of his wife, but at the same time, he is paying a lot of attention to other females as of late. Suggestive comments. Touchy feely. This was not who he was for the 15 years prior. When I told him of my concerns, he stated, "Jane knows I'd never cheat on her. We're great! No worries." I beg to differ. If he finds a willing female, he's done. I can tell. He's "ripe" for an A, unfortunately. (After one too many cocktails a couple months ago, he admitted as much.)

 

There is another woman I know in a deeply abusive marriage. He has hit her, but more common is the insulting, belittling, and degrading. What does she say, though? Her marriage is good and her H is "great!"

 

My own parents. Neither have cheated (to the best of my knowledge) but neither have ever been very satisfied in life either. They vent their frustrations to me, their child. (Yuck.) But their codependency has kept them tied together, mutually held back by each other's dysfunction. They tell people they are "so happy" though.

 

Here are my questions then:

 

1. If you think your marriage is perfect because of your own blinders and dysfunction, then is it perfect? Is your reality real? Or are you a Pollyana who could be destroyed at any second?

 

2. If one person thinks the marriage is great but their spouse is unhappy, is the person truly open and willing to hearing there are problems? Or do they hide from the signs and facts and cling to their false reality? And is an A often the result?

 

3. Are the people who were truly shocked by their spouses A people who emotionally or psychologically needed their Ms, needed spouses who would 'catch them' and thus felt more devastation? Were they codependent types? Had they been using (needing) the M to fill them up instead of being self-reliant and independent selves?

 

4. Are strong, healthy partners as "shocked" by As as codependent or needy partners? Are open-minded partners as shocked?

 

5. Are hurt and shock the same thing? I would be very, very hurt if my H cheated, but I would not be shocked. It happens. People cheat. So where does the shock come from? Do people feel hurt and call it shock?

 

6. When people say others thought they had a perfect M, are they just kidding themselves? Does anyone have a perfect M? Does anyone ever think anyone else does?

 

I could go on and on. I have formed some of my own answers, but I think that the honesty after a crisis does bring an authenticity, and BSs are not lying when they say that. I also believe people are often willfully naïve, but that being jaded can indicate living with more honesty which most say leads to intimacy. So for me, I prefer the marriage I am achieving now over the "perfect" one my H and others always believed we had. It's more real, even if fantasyland (of the pre-A marriage, not the A, but same concepts apply) was prettier. My H is an avoider, so he believed "prettier" was better. Until he started living "ickier but more real." Now he knows what he was missing all along, when he was telling people we had the Perfect Marriage.

 

I do agree that Complaceny kills more marriages than anything else, and perfection is often used to describe outward appearances and public interactions rather than private ones.

 

I believe gas lighting and future faking is why BSs are so shocked, yes SHOCKED by the discovery of an affair.

 

He spoke of a future with her and with me. He'd leave her bed and come to mine. if I was missing signs than yes, I was naive because love and true trust are blind.

 

They are suppose to be I think. That is why it hurts so much.

 

Also, there was no communicating of deal breakers or ultimatums by my fWS BEFORE he crashed into his OW. NONE. I was always the more heavily invested into our relationship. He seemed to think it was fine the way it was.

 

No demands of IC or MC or picking up a new interest together or scheduling romantic weekends away. THAT came after DDAY at MY insistence IF he was seriously honest about reconciling.

 

So I am curious. WHY did you not threaten divorce prior to your affair? IC, MC? And it saddens me your H does not know.

 

That's inauthentic for sure.

[waterwoman]

 

1. If you think your marriage is perfect because of your own blinders and dysfunction, then is it perfect? Is your reality real? Or are you a Pollyana who could be destroyed at any second?

 

2. If one person thinks the marriage is great but their spouse is unhappy, is the person truly open and willing to hearing there are problems? Or do they hide from the signs and facts and cling to their false reality? And is an A often the result?

 

3. Are the people who were truly shocked by their spouses A people who emotionally or psychologically needed their Ms, needed spouses who would 'catch them' and thus felt more devastation? Were they codependent types? Had they been using (needing) the M to fill them up instead of being self-reliant and independent selves?

 

4. Are strong, healthy partners as "shocked" by As as codependent or needy partners? Are open-minded partners as shocked?

 

5. Are hurt and shock the same thing? I would be very, very hurt if my H cheated, but I would not be shocked. It happens. People cheat. So where does the shock come from? Do people feel hurt and call it shock?

 

6. When people say others thought they had a perfect M, are they just kidding themselves? Does anyone have a perfect M? Does anyone ever think anyone else does?

 

I could go on and on. I have formed some of my own answers, but I think that the honesty after a crisis does bring an authenticity, and BSs are not lying when they say that. I also believe people are often willfully naïve, but that being jaded can indicate living with more honesty which most say leads to intimacy. So for me, I prefer the marriage I am achieving now over the "perfect" one my H and others always believed we had. It's more real, even if fantasyland (of the pre-A marriage, not the A, but same concepts apply) was prettier. My H is an avoider, so he believed "prettier" was better. Until he started living "ickier but more real." Now he knows what he was missing all along, when he was telling people we had the Perfect Marriage.

 

Nope, quite wrong for me at least. I don't believe in 'perfect'. Never have, never will. My marriage has always been 'real', in the sense of having warts and bruises. But I accepted it and loved it as it was. Just as I accept people as being less than perfect. Being Pollyanna means accepting people as they are and being OK with their faults. The one thing I believed in was that H and I were partners, we had each other's backs, whatever went on in the world we were on the same side, even if he was a grumpy bugger in the mornings, even if he was unhealthily obsessed with football, even if he doesn't much like my mum. THAT is what shocked and hurt me, not the blowing away of some putative bubble. Please don't minimise hurt by saying that it was due to unreality or naivete or was in some way deserved because of stupidity.

[Betterthanthis13]

I don't find this to be true. I don't think anyone glamorizes affairs. In the media and even in television, it's always taboo.

 

"There's no such thing as bad press"

 

Is a common phrase in advertising. Affairs don't have to be portrayed as glamorous per se in the media to be "glamorized". The concept of infidelity just has to be there, in your face, all the time. It certainly is pretty much everywhere.

 

Try to watch television for a bit without some mention of cheating. Any format you like. Sit-coms, news shows, stand up comedy, movies, etc.

 

Stand in line at the grocery store and look at the covers of the magazines on display. Go to any news homepage on the Internet that has social content.

 

And then there's my favorite website, Ashley Madison, who's tag line is "Life is Short... Have an Affair"

 

They advertise their web page just like any other using Google Analytics and such to target middle aged married people and repeatedly get their message on computer screens of folks searching for things like "home depot" , "my baby is sick" or, "my wife is annoying me"

 

We watch reality shows like "the real housewives" and sitcoms like "desperate housewives" soap operas, E! Network gossip shows, and it's become common knowledge that any famous athlete, actor or musician is most likely a serial cheater. Tiger Woods. Charlie Sheen. Arnold Shwartzenneger. This is all just off the top of my head.

 

There are over 500,000 books on Amazon.com on how to fix relationships and/or marriages after infidelity (I looked)

 

Oh yeah and don't forget Internet Porn and webcam girls- no need to leave the house. Just have an affair at home. It's not really cheating anyway. Right? Meh. Who needs intimacy with their spouse.

 

It's so pervasive, it's everywhere and we as a society just shrug our shoulders and do nothing and are shocked beyond belief when it happens to US, to ME???

 

Yep. We are all in denial.

 

I am not blaming society and the media for affairs. Not a chance in hell. I support the first amendment. Cheating always boils down to the choice of the individual. But I didn't see any of this affair glamorization in the media either until I was rudely awakened to it.

 

My problem isn't so much that the message of infidelity has saturated the media. It's the absence of an equally visible, alternative, positive message. What's in the media is a reflection of what we want to see- otherwise we wouldn't watch it.

 

It's not "other people" on TV and the Internet anymore. It's all of us. It used to be entertainment, a part time hobby. Analog. One or two TV households. A radio with 8 stations in the family car. Ooohhh maybe basic cable.

 

Digital media and the messages we produce and share with each other today have a different meaning than they did 10, 20 or 30 years ago. I feel terrible for any young couple in their 20's today trying to make sense of what a commitment is supposed to be. Can you imagine? The majority of the content they have ingested since they got their first iPad at 7 years old is utter garbage and littered with messages that having a relationship is two people pretending to fall in love forever and ever, but one or both of the partners is going to cheat and there will be drama but everyone will get over it and go to therapy.

 

Omg like have you seen "The Hills"??

[Betterthanthis13]

A better way to phrase it is this made it harder for me to Accept the betrayal and deception. Some BS's can accept it better than others depending on their experiences and past relationships.

 

My background did not prepare me for adultery. It was never on my radar. My parents have been married for 50 years. My wife's parents have been married for nearly 50 years.

 

I see what you are saying. Maybe the "level of pain" is a non issue. Coming to terms with, or acceptance of betrayal, might be a more accurate thing for me to focus on. So my true question might really be, why is it easier for some BS's to work through the stages of grief to arrive at the final stage of acceptance?

[thecharade]

Spark,

 

I thought my M was great because my H is great. And he is in many ways. End of story, I thought. I told my exAP that the A 'had nothing to do with my M or my H.' Then I started IC and found that was not at all true. It had everything to do with my M and the fact that I felt terrible pushing a 'great' H out of his comfort zone, felt awful about starting fights, felt guilty for even having unmet needs. Once I admitted that passive aggressive people can appear awesome while covertly sabotaging your most important needs, I stopped feeling guilty about my needs and my dealbreakers. Even if everyone else will eventually feel I broke up my family for "nothing," my therapist will support me in knowing the truth. I am fighting for my M, waiting for my H to learn how to stop being selfish. And my therapist, a BW herself whose H left her for the OW, is guiding me every step of the way.

 

She is also 100% of the belief that my H should not be told of the A. Her thinking is that our M was and is the issue, and we are working on it. The A was a symptom. There is no reason to tell him when I'm the one who ended the A (my only A, by choice) and I'm already doing all the necessary work on my why's in IC with her. She feels the work is there, so the additional pain to him serves no purpose. It's fine that many people disagree. I realize viewpoints differ, but she is a T and a BW, so I trust her education and experience. She's been very awesome so far, very helpful (and I've tried out or worked with 10 other therapists in life). There is no one path for recovering from this A stuff.