Husband Looking up Happy Ending Massage

[CarrieT]

He asked if I wanted to talk about it and I said not really.

 

There was your opening and you did not take it.

 

He knows you snoop -- as that is wearing him down -- and you had the opportunity to say, "You know I snoop but the fact that we both know you are looking at gay porn is concerning and confusing me."

 

He can tell you he would never touch another person until he is blue in the face. But that fact that you two cannot be completely open and honest with each other about your desires and fantasies is a recipe for disaster.

 

In a loving marriage, he should be able to express his desires and interests to you (even if he NEVER has any intention upon acting on them) without fear of recrimination. That he has to hide them and that you have to snoop speaks volumes about how dysfunctional your relationship is and -- if you want to save it -- should include counseling.

[It-is-what-it-is.]

I said looking at places near us is what is confusing and hard to understand. He said looking at places near us which make his fantaties possible make them more arousing, but that he would never do anything out of his love for me. That the shopping is hurting us both.

 

I am supposed to go on faith.

 

One more thing...clearly he believes that using porn, trolling hook ups, looking at local places for massages, AND not being intimate with you. How exactly is that not impacting the marriage?

 

I don't get it.

 

What you have here is a choice. You figure out if you can live with his promise or if that isn't enough of a commitment.

 

I think you can stop checking, because you know what he is doing, you did not raise the issue with him, you scheduled an appointment with a counselor. He raised it and then didn't like your answer.

 

It isn't the snooping that is causing the problem, it's that you cannot pretend it doesn't bother you and he wont stop.

 

Also, the lack of intimacy is probably the root of this...you feel that he isn't into you and gets his needs filled some other way.

 

Not sure why he says he would never cheat to risk your marriage, but does something you have said is painful to you? And then blames you for checking?

[BreakOnThrough]

Why don't you ask him if he is ashamed of his fantasies and that you are not going to judge him? Perhaps he feels that you would be judgemental and overbearing (considering you do snoop on him) and he is far less likely to be open and honest with you because of this. I see this as a trust issue on both sides, not just your trust issues. He is not opening up to you and you need to find the reason why.

 

One reason, Men usually want to "protect" and will hold things from their wife that may hurt them, especially if they are "good guys" in all other aspects of their life.

[redfathom]

He said he looks to help him perform better by helping him get aroused and that he is working on medical reasons for his ED problems. But this is a first to me. I told him he should be more open with me so that I could understand. I also told him he can't keep looking at thing he knows hurts me...which wouldn't if I wasn't looking. He almost thinks he is doing our relationship a favor by looking at those things.

[CarrieT]

I also told him he can't keep looking at thing he knows hurts me...which wouldn't if I wasn't looking.

 

Which part hurts you? The fantasies with other men or the proximity of the massage centers?

 

Do you have an objection to him looking at porn in general?

[eddyctv]

Did you ever try watching porn WITH him while having sex with him? Just a thought...

[redfathom]

The proximity. I don't generally have an issue as long as it doesn't interfere with our sex life...which he says he watches to help him with his ED so he can be intimate with me because he has performance stress and all, me shopping and confronting, this isn't helping his performance.

[redfathom]

Should I take him to Vegas and get him an erotic massage so he can get it out of his system? Would that even work?

[CarrieT]

Should I take him to Vegas and get him an erotic massage so he can get it out of his system? Would that even work?

Probably not - all of this feels as though there are much bigger issues at hand that you two are not discussing.

 

And if someone has these types of fantasies, doing it once rarely produces an "out of his system" solution.

[It-is-what-it-is.]

The proximity. I don't generally have an issue as long as it doesn't interfere with our sex life...which he says he watches to help him with his ED so he can be intimate with me because he has performance stress and all, me shopping and confronting, this isn't helping his performance.

 

I am confused.

 

How does the porn help your sex life if it is not resulting in sex between the two of you? I mean he is not doing these things with you, is he?

 

I agree he may be embarrassed by the porn or type of porn or the need for it. Or he is a sex addict. All things I think you need professional help with discussing, in a safe non judgemental way, but realistically discussing the fact that if he masterbates he cannot hope to be intimate with you. And intimacy is lacking. Ad he doesn't want to change or compromise.

 

Again, you don't need to check on him, anymore, cause you know he is doing it, and without any communication or resolution between you, you can assume he will continue and escalate. You need to decide if you can live with the uncertainty, the lack of intimacy, and keep it the way it is. Or if something needs to change and what that needs to be for you to stay married. Hey he also can decide the porn, trolling for hook ups etc is more important to him than your marriage.

 

I would be curious, since he believes that the issue is that you snoop, and not his actions or anything...would he be happy if let's say...

 

You stop checking his activity, stop talking about it, stop trying to improve things, but since you feel (and you cant get support to change how you feel) that he is either cheating, tempted to cheat or will eventually cheat; and he will not work to address that adequately for you to feel safe, that the physical side of your relationship ends and you obtain your intimacy needs elsewhere? (Like he is?)

 

Curious

[pteromom]

That kind of mentality is why so many women are alone and pining away for a perfect man they'll never find. It's awful that you'd tell a woman to end a marriage which is otherwise good just for sexual issues, without even having them attend counseling.

 

This isn't just for sexual issues. This is about dishonesty. Major dishonesty, and at least attempted cheating (and probably actual cheating.)

 

Nobody is perfect, but you can't build a foundation on lies. Both people at least have to WANT to try.

[ChessPieceFace]

This isn't just for sexual issues. This is about dishonesty. Major dishonesty, and at least attempted cheating (and probably actual cheating.)

 

Assuming the worst = major relationship killer.

[pteromom]

Assuming the worst = major relationship killer.

 

As is sticking your head in the sand and ignoring what is going on.

 

I hope her husband sees his mistakes and gets help. But I think she'd be a fool to just take him at his word that he's looking up massage parlors just to get himself aroused for her.

[It-is-what-it-is.]

So I told him j am going to counseling Friday. He asked why and I said I am confused about a few things. He asked if I wanted to talk about it and I said not really. He asked if I snooped and I said yes. Today he texted me how my day was. He also said mg snooping and lack of trust is wearing in him and I told him his searches were wearing on me. I said maybe its best we talk to a counselor together.

 

How are you doing?

[redfathom]

Hello IIWII. Not good. My counseling was okay. The guy said what my husband is doing is not okay and the story he is telling me is BS. Doesn't mean he has cheated. He said I should research sex addiction. Then H and I went to MC and she also mentioned MC and referred us to a therapist (as that was more of an intake process).

 

When we got home we talked and he said he felt like our marriage was like our sick cat that we had to put down. I told him it was worth going to MC. He agreed to stop looking at porn as much.

 

I found out what has been happening with me. I have been gaslit. Where one person will manipulate the other person in to doubting what they perceive is reality. Or defelct blame to it being the other persons fault. i.e. I say his porn upsets me or his looking at casual encounters and he says my lack of trust will ruin the marriage and I start to cry and beg forgiveness for hurting him.

 

We just had our first MC and the therapist said we each need to go to IC first and decide on our (mostly me) dealbreakers. She said if it's sex addiction it might never stop and I need to decide if that is a dealbreaker for me or not.

 

Again after therapy he won't talk to me.

[It-is-what-it-is.]

Hello IIWII. Not good. My counseling was okay. The guy said what my husband is doing is not okay and the story he is telling me is BS. Doesn't mean he has cheated. He said I should research sex addiction. Then H and I went to MC and she also mentioned MC and referred us to a therapist (as that was more of an intake process).

 

When we got home we talked and he said he felt like our marriage was like our sick cat that we had to put down. I told him it was worth going to MC. He agreed to stop looking at porn as much.

 

I found out what has been happening with me. I have been gaslit. Where one person will manipulate the other person in to doubting what they perceive is reality. Or defelct blame to it being the other persons fault. i.e. I say his porn upsets me or his looking at casual encounters and he says my lack of trust will ruin the marriage and I start to cry and beg forgiveness for hurting him.

 

We just had our first MC and the therapist said we each need to go to IC first and decide on our (mostly me) dealbreakers. She said if it's sex addiction it might never stop and I need to decide if that is a dealbreaker for me or not.

 

Again after therapy he won't talk to me.

 

I am not criticizing...just want to ask

 

why you will accept that he will try to not look at porn "as much"?

 

What do you get from the marriage?

 

Are you willing to accept that he will not be intimate with you?

 

Are you willing to accept that he will always be looking at porn and escalating to more active things, if not already?

 

If you can say yes. Then ok.

 

If you say no, or you are unsure. I think you need to back off (180) and start to explore your options. Get financials together, visit a lawyer, get tested for STDs. Stay in therapy for yourself.

 

He sounds checked out. Sorry, but he does.

 

(Hugs)

[redfathom]

Well we just had a long talk. Kind of ended the same as the last one. He isn't sure where he wants this to go. He kept wanting to know my goals with the therapy. He said it was to look at less porn that he did that...he has only looked once in three weeks. I said I don't have a tangible goal. Just that I want out marriage to be healthy and I want us to respect and at least try to understand and respect each other.

 

So he brought up why we have not had kids yet. And he said if saving the marriage is just so we can be together and not have a family it's not worth it to him. I told him he was deflecting. I told him I snoop for my protection. I asked him how I could trust him if I tell him looking at casual encounters hurts me and that then he did it again three weeks later. He said he didn't know it hurt me. I asked him if me crying about how upset it made me and unsure about our future wasn't enough of a clue that it hurt me.

 

He said he has stopped now and asked me what my goal was. He asked me why I wanted to save the marriage and I said because I love him. He said that wasn't a good enough reason...to save the marriage so we can just go back to the way things were (while better) wasn't enough for him. I said it would be if he loved me and I asked him if he still loved me and he said he wasn't sure. Just that he is really angry.

 

We circled back and forth and my goal for the marriage and if he thought it was worth saving. I told him this will only work if we are both committed and love each other and that I was not going to verbally beat him into submission on the subject.

 

So now we have deteriorated to anytime I try to talk about going to MC and how we will make progress to him saying he doesn't think it's worth it. Which I think is his anger more than anything.

 

He said I brought up divorce first. I said I had, but that was because he wasn't taking my feelings seriously and I was feeling trapped.

 

He said the MC suggested an audio book about porn and relationships and he said he might look into it. He would not commit to actually getting it and I said that listening to it would be a start and help us establish the goals he is wanting me to setup for him.

 

Not sure what to do. When he brought up two weeks ago that he didn't think fixing our marriage was worth it, he made comments about how he would be single for the rest of his life, because what would he say to someone about what happened in his marriage. I told him he can't make me the bad guy on everything.

 

I told the MC (privately) that I feel like both of our futures are in my hands. He did say that he is not angry with me, that he is angry at the way he has made me feel and I asked him why he hasn't done anything to change that in 10+ years.

 

IIWII, I don't think he has cheated. I am almost certain of it. he has checked out for sure and the above just solidifies that. There was a time I checked out of our marriage and we separated (there was never anyone else, just issues that I got tired of), and I wasn't sure I wanted to be with him. I went back and fell in love again. That was five years ago. I wish he had the same faith in our marriage as I did.

[ChessPieceFace]

Well we just had a long talk. Kind of ended the same as the last one. He isn't sure where he wants this to go. He kept wanting to know my goals with the therapy.

 

The goal should be for both of you to restore communication and intimacy to save your marriage. What you say in terms of blame and guilt is extremely familiar to me even though I am not married. It's a horrible place to be and I imagine it is extremely hard for the guilter & blamer to stop doing it.

 

I agree with the assessment that your husband has checked out. Sounds like you're trying to hold up a collapsing marriage all by yourself. But he hasn't given up entirely ... my only suggestion is that I think he has an idealized view of what his sexuality would be after the end of the marriage. He can view all the porn he wants and get whatever cheap or paid sex he wants ... what he doesn't see is ultimately how empty it will be. In terms of porn addiction I've read how men who are addicted have to understand the fact that porn can offer more thrills and excitement, real sex offers more meaning and fulfillment, and they have to stop basing the choice only on what's the biggest thrill. Kind of like a junkie giving up a drug habit. I'm pretty far gone into porn addiction myself, but hopefully someday I'll get the chance to actually try to finally have a girl and a reason to give it up.

[It-is-what-it-is.]

RED,

Sometimes when I need to figure something out its easier to look at the facts. I don't have those so I am using your words.

 

He thinks

• He isn't sure where he wants this to go.
  
• He kept wanting to know my goals with the therapy.
  
• if saving the marriage is just so we can be together and not have a family it's not worth it to him.
  
• he didn't know it hurt me.
  
• He said he has stopped now (porn, trolling craigslist?)
  
• He asked me why I wanted to save the marriage
  
• I asked him if he still loved me and he said he wasn't sure.
  
• Just that he is really angry.
  
• He said I brought up divorce first.
  
• he made comments about how he would be single for the rest of his life
  
• what would he say to someone about what happened in his marriage.
  
• he brought up two weeks ago that he didn't think fixing our marriage was worth it,
  
• he is angry at the way he has made me feel
  
• He said it isn't a good enough reason...to save the marriage so we can just go back to the way things were (while better) wasn't enough for him.
  

 

You think

1. Just that I want our marriage to be healthy
   I want us to respect and at least try to understand and respect each other.
   
2. asked him how I could trust him if I tell him (looking at casual encounters) hurts me and that then he did it again three weeks later.
   
3. I told him this will only work if we are both committed and love each other and that I was not going to verbally beat him into submission on the subject.
   
4. I said he wasn't taking my feelings seriously and I was feeling trapped.
   

 

From an outsider looking in...this is what I see.

 

1. He does not want to be with you and does not love you. Men do not say they do not know, they say that instead of no.
   
2. He is willing to stay if you have children because he does not believe anyone will want someone with his behavior history or relationship history.
   
3. He will stop porn (etc) only to achieve the family he wants, but does not see the harm, nor care about your feelings about it.
   
4. He IS expecting and hoping that you will make the decision, he does not want to be the bad guy.
   

 

I think you should continue with IC, and he can do IC, but you are both in different places in your wants.

I don't know if you can feel safe enough to have children (I am sorry I don't remember if this topic came up before) and I do believe that is his driver.

How much worse would you feel now if you had a 2 year old in the next room? It changes things drastically.

 

I don't know if you want children or not, but, I would ask him this one question. Give it to him in writing and ask for a thoughtful answer.

 

"You have stated that you are not sure you love me or want to try to save the marriage, however you indicated that IF it were to happen it would be because you want a family and not because you love me.

 

If we were to bring a child into this relationship, what are you prepared to do to

1. Make me feel safe, emotionally, financially, and physically?

2. Ensure you are creating an emotionally, financially and physically safe environment for a child.

3. Ensure you are emotionally able to be a father and all that it entails

4. Ensure that you are able to fully invest in our personal relationship as a priority to everything else?

5. What would you need from me specifically?

 

I don't think you have a lot of hope, and his answer will be very telling.

 

Good luck

 

(Mom hugs)

[redfathom]

Chess, I don't think he is out completely. He never really takes responsibility for things wrong in our marriage. When we separated the first time was because he was so angry. He has depression and would not deal with it. After I left I told him I would not be back until he got help. He did got to the doctor and is now on medication and it's made a great difference. It took me walking out the door for two months and not coming back until he had gotten help. He just won't help himself.

 

Miss, thanks for latching on to the word porn without fully understanding the bigger picture before responding. I don't think he is a full blown sex addict, but he is putting porn first in how it affects my feelings and the marriage. Trolling casual encounters, even if just to read stories for arousal, is not okay.

 

IIWII, Thanks you for your thoughtful post. I think if I asked him those things he would say he would do all of them. I told him I wanted a healthy marriage and if that was something we worked on that I did want a family. But, only if I knew we had the tools to continue with a healthy marriage, but that I would not make that promise to him as a way to get him to go to MC with me. I said if I said yes to what he was asking it would be a lie and he said he knew it would be a lie so I asked him how I would be able to respond in a way that told him what he wanted to hear.

 

To add another layer. My husband has been suicidal. He was when we separated the first time and that was when he went to the EA and eventually to get help with his medication. He told me after our first MC session he came home and started looking in the cupboards for pain pills we have from old injuries and such. Then he said he knew better and took a nap to get over the urge. This is partly what I mean about feeling responsible for his future. Now I have to wonder during all of this if I am going to come home and find him dead. He said it again yesterday after our 2nd MC.

 

I told him everything would be fine and he said he does rationalize it and knows that he shouldn't kill himself, but the thoughts are there. He has had suicidal thoughts even when we don't have huge problems like this, it's something he struggles with.

[sweetkiwi]

Why is "sex addiction" the new go-to conclusion for every single guy that looks at porn or has an affair? Good lord, how lame.

 

You husband doesn't sound like he has an addiction to sex at all. It simply appears that he's lost interest in you sexually. And from the constant comments he's making about wanting to put the marriage 'down' like a sick cat, it sounds as though he's no longer emotionally invested, either.

 

Why do you keep insisting on marriage counceling? You think some therapist is going to magically make him feel differently?

 

He's not invested anymore. You need to accept that.

 

Granted this is only one study and will need further research with similar results, but the brain does NOT behave in an addictive manner for those who are unable to control sexual urges.

 

Brain study debunks sex addiction | News.com.au

[redfathom]

So I texted him a good morning message and said I was here if he needed anything.

 

He texted back that what he needs is for me to be gone. That what he needed was trust and that if he makes my life so miserable that I would be better off without him.

 

I still feel like this is anger and that he doesn't mean it. What do I do? I have not talked to my friends or family about this. I guess I should start there.

[It-is-what-it-is.]

So I texted him a good morning message and said I was here if he needed anything.

 

He texted back that what he needs is for me to be gone. That what he needed was trust and that if he makes my life so miserable that I would be better off without him.

 

I still feel like this is anger and that he doesn't mean it. What do I do? I have not talked to my friends or family about this. I guess I should start there.

 

I am sorry. I do think you should get some support in real life. It would also be appropriate to call your therapist.

 

I read your post about him being suicidal, but that only alters part of my suggestion. I do feel compelled to go read your previous threads to see if I missed something.

 

People who suffer from brain chemistry illnesses are not always thinking clearly or rationally.

 

His porn use can be equated to alcohol or drug use...a way to self medicate.

 

The question is why. Ok, he starts at a lower level of happiness, then real life "stuff" happens, then consequences from depression, more stuff. If you have trouble seeing the light at the end of the tunnel, then suicide becomes in the loop. My friend once said that it is running the bad tape reel all the time and not realizing there is a good/happy reel too.

 

What kicked this off? You catching him? Or was it before?

 

Maybe you do need to let him go figure out what he needs. And you too.

 

Good luck...

 

(Mom hugs)

[ZenFree4]

Wow, I feel like we are leading VERY similar/almost parallel lives. Except that I have 4 kids with my spouse, & he has already visited a massage parlor..So since we have kids, I feel more stuck because divorce is more complicated. I too have had issues with porn use, but it took a turn for the worse when he straight up voiced that he was ok with neglecting me (our sex life was also lacking; I was willing but he wasn't interested.), but he continued looking at porn.

A month ago I found out about his trip to an emp, of which although I have proof, I haven't confronted him with it yet..although I asked him if he'd been to any place such as those, and he of course said no. And that was the deal breaker. He spent $1100 (no joke, but really, how does one spend that much?!!) & doesn't seem to be the kind of guy who would go with his buddies, which is what i keep telling myself maybe he did, to try and justify the cost.

 

We have to decide what we can live with & what we can't. If I didn't have kids, I'd be out the door in a heartbeat. But I do & although he is great with the kids, I wouldn't want them to think that being treated disrespectfully is the way to go. I've snooped too, but like you said, if he didn't do things that made you not trust him, then you probably wouldn't have to snoop.

So I would say get out while you can. But I'm still trying to tell myself that..

[It-is-what-it-is.]

Wow, I feel like we are leading VERY similar/almost parallel lives. Except that I have 4 kids with my spouse, & he has already visited a massage parlor..So since we have kids, I feel more stuck because divorce is more complicated. I too have had issues with porn use, but it took a turn for the worse when he straight up voiced that he was ok with neglecting me (our sex life was also lacking; I was willing but he wasn't interested.), but he continued looking at porn.

A month ago I found out about his trip to an emp, of which although I have proof, I haven't confronted him with it yet..although I asked him if he'd been to any place such as those, and he of course said no. And that was the deal breaker. He spent $1100 (no joke, but really, how does one spend that much?!!) & doesn't seem to be the kind of guy who would go with his buddies, which is what i keep telling myself maybe he did, to try and justify the cost.

 

We have to decide what we can live with & what we can't. If I didn't have kids, I'd be out the door in a heartbeat. But I do & although he is great with the kids, I wouldn't want them to think that being treated disrespectfully is the way to go. I've snooped too, but like you said, if he didn't do things that made you not trust him, then you probably wouldn't have to snoop.

So I would say get out while you can. But I'm still trying to tell myself that..

 

Zen:

Sorry you are here. I know you have kids, so it does make it different. So while analyzing your sitch, make sure you think about how his behavior might come across to them. Like, does it put them at risk for any disease?

 

$1100 is more than a massage. He didn't go with friends. You know that right?