Eggplant Posted July 12, 2013 Posted July 12, 2013 I have a question for people who divorced because of infidelity. Does the infidelity have any influence on the judge? Does it matter? Is fault ever assigned?
Pyro Posted July 12, 2013 Posted July 12, 2013 Not one bit. Wrong again. My Dad was granted custody of my sister and I when the divorce was finalized and she was the one who cheated. I'm sure that there are many other cases like that out there.
Woggle Posted July 12, 2013 Posted July 12, 2013 Wrong again. My Dad was granted custody of my sister and I when the divorce was finalized and she was the one who cheated. I'm sure that there are many other cases like that out there. I know that if my ex hadn't lied on the stand about me abusing her and got caught she would be living in my house right now and I would be paying alimony. Thank god she is not a good liar.
Woggle Posted July 12, 2013 Posted July 12, 2013 Are you divorced? Yes I am and it was her unstable behavior in court that worked in my favor.
Author Eggplant Posted July 12, 2013 Author Posted July 12, 2013 I know that if my ex hadn't lied on the stand about me abusing her and got caught she would be living in my house right now and I would be paying alimony. Thank god she is not a good liar.Wow!!!! Sounds crazy.
Realist3 Posted July 12, 2013 Posted July 12, 2013 In today's world, not very much at all. The only concern is whether the offending partner(cheater) placed the children in a position of dealing with the affair. In 99% of the case in means zip, zero, nada. Judges today are not interested in hearing why who did what. It is a non-factor.
Author Eggplant Posted July 12, 2013 Author Posted July 12, 2013 In today's world, not very much at all. The only concern is whether the offending partner(cheater) placed the children in a position of dealing with the affair. In 99% of the case in means zip, zero, nada. Judges today are not interested in hearing why who did what. It is a non-factor.Okay that's too bad. Did you experience it personally?
Woggle Posted July 12, 2013 Posted July 12, 2013 Wow!!!! Sounds crazy. I am just speculating but I really think that is what saved me.
Author Eggplant Posted July 12, 2013 Author Posted July 12, 2013 I am just speculating but I really think that is what saved me.She fits into a certain category. I've met this kind of crazy person. They are FRIGHTENING. Narcissists or borderlines or sociopaths. They can do serious damage, but eventually people around them get wise to their ways and they develop a reputation. Crazy people are to be avoided at all costs -- now I know why you're saying you're bitter. 1
carhill Posted July 12, 2013 Posted July 12, 2013 In a community property state with no-fault divorce and no fault divorce pathway, infidelity matters very little, presuming both parties have competent counsel and both parties care equally about the outcome. However, one can establish legal residency in a fault state where the judiciary is customarily favorable to betrayed spouses and, presuming adequate bankroll for forensics and a protracted lawsuit, it's certainly possible to gain a more favorable result than in a pure no-fault state/jurisdiction. In our particular case, my EA had no relevance to the ending settlement and proceedings. California is a no-fault, community property state. Everything was pretty straightforward.
USMCHokie Posted July 12, 2013 Posted July 12, 2013 You should be able to add conditions to a prenup that would guide divorce stemming from infidelity.
Realist3 Posted July 12, 2013 Posted July 12, 2013 Okay that's too bad. Did you experience it personally? No, not personally, but I have several friends that are divorce attorneys. Judges really have to interest in determining the ins and outs of personal relationships. Put yourself in their position, it is a fools game.
BetrayedH Posted July 12, 2013 Posted July 12, 2013 I agree that it's rarely a factor. It wasn't much of a factor in my divorce even though my wife's affair was pretty heinous and I had plenty of proof. Realist is correct that the system is now designed to avoid delving too far into inter-personal relationships and whose fault it was that they failed. Divorce judges see infidelity in the vast majority of their cases. They don't care. They see their job as splitting the kids and splitting the stuff. Bear in mind as well that few divorces actually go before a judge. There was never a judge that heard my side of the story because we settled things out in mediation. Going to court is expensive and has no guarantees. Many times the best option is to negotiate your best deal outside of the courtroom. 2
carhill Posted July 12, 2013 Posted July 12, 2013 You should be able to add conditions to a prenup that would guide divorce stemming from infidelity. That's a good point and, once the proof has been established to indicate a breach of contract, a lawsuit for damages under the contract could be mounted. IMO, in such a circumstance, the value of the damages would be weighed against the costs of prosecuting the lawsuit. That's where having competent advisors, both legal and accounting, would be helpful. For 'average' folks, it's probably not worth pursuing, but certainly could be for people with substantial assets, e.g. 'wealthy' people. For example, a high earning celebrity whose low-earning spouse has an affair and wishes to protect their income and assets from equal distribution due to the 'damage' caused from the affair of their spouse.
USMCHokie Posted July 12, 2013 Posted July 12, 2013 That's a good point and, once the proof has been established to indicate a breach of contract, a lawsuit for damages under the contract could be mounted. IMO, in such a circumstance, the value of the damages would be weighed against the costs of prosecuting the lawsuit. That's where having competent advisors, both legal and accounting, would be helpful. For 'average' folks, it's probably not worth pursuing, but certainly could be for people with substantial assets, e.g. 'wealthy' people. For example, a high earning celebrity whose low-earning spouse has an affair and wishes to protect their income and assets from equal distribution due to the 'damage' caused from the affair of their spouse. If the contract is written in such a way that prosecution could be done simply and unambiguously, it could be viable; this would include specifically stipulating conditions which would satisfy "infidelity" in the eyes of the party, i.e., what is the minimum amount of evidence required to show cheating? And what would be the penalty? Can you install a deterrent into the agreement? Clauses requiring the cheating party to pay punitive alimony to the aggrieved party?
carhill Posted July 12, 2013 Posted July 12, 2013 One practical clause might be to exclude co-mingled and transmuted assets from equal distribution. For example, if the betrayed spouse owns a beachfront home in Malibu and the wayward spouse attempts to prove contributions to that home in pursuit of profiting from its appreciation during the marriage, they could be forestalled from such gain from co-mingling via contract, if the contract included such sanctions for infidelity, with the burden of proving the infidelity being upon the allegedly aggrieved spouse. As example of a resolution, the sanctioned party could be compensated for the value of their contributions, as made in fact, but be blocked from participating in any appreciation in value therefrom. In the example, talking about multi-million dollar properties, such contracts would be worth enacting and enforcing, IMO. Even if legal costs ranged 10 to 15 percent of value, it could be worth it. In our case, mine ran between 5 and 10 percent of value received, but the aggregate value was far lower than anything a 'rich' person would be contemplating. TBH, if I were to get married again, and use a pre-nup, I likely would not include any verbiage regarding infidelity, rather address assets and income directly without regard to actions of the parties, though I would have discussions with my lawyer about potentials scenarios and risks relevant to that decision.
USMCHokie Posted July 12, 2013 Posted July 12, 2013 TBH, if I were to get married again, and use a pre-nup, I likely would not include any verbiage regarding infidelity, rather address assets and income directly without regard to actions of the parties, though I would have discussions with my lawyer about potentials scenarios and risks relevant to that decision. Well I suppose I'm thinking something a bit more diabolical in which conditions set forth in the agreement establish punitive measures to act as a deterrent against infidelity. As an extreme and unrealistic example to illustrate, let's say the wayward spouse owned the Malibu property before marriage and agreed that the property be forfeited to the betrayed spouse in case of infidelity. Would you cheat if you risked losing the property?
Got it Posted July 12, 2013 Posted July 12, 2013 I live in a fault state and no it really doesn't factor in that much. It can be used as a bargaining chip while negotiating the divorce settlement to get the other party to capitulate in the BS' favor by playing the public card. But outside of that, not really. I have a friend, caught his wife cheating, she left with the kids and he continues to be stripped of everything as the proceedings are going on. Her being the mother has far outweighed the fact she was cheating.
threelaurels Posted July 12, 2013 Posted July 12, 2013 I have a question for people who divorced because of infidelity. Does the infidelity have any influence on the judge? Does it matter? Is fault ever assigned? Not divorced, but I know a lot about the legal system in a few countries. In theory, infidelity matters. However, it only matters some of the time in practice. It mostly depends on the location and whether or not the area has "fault" or "no fault" divorce. Theoretically, infidelity has a greater weight on the custody situation than the divorce proceedings. One determination criteria for custody that many places use is "moral fitness", and one parent having an affair falls under this category. However, as with divorce, it only matters sometimes in practice. Obviously, this varies by country and location vastly. For example, in Saudi Arabia, a man can divorce his wife by saying "I divorce you" three times, but a woman who wants a divorce must make a request with the courts. They can, of course, deny her request and force her to remain married You should be able to add conditions to a prenup that would guide divorce stemming from infidelity. Prenup agreements generally hold little water in court. In my experience, they get thrown out by a judge more often than they are enforced. It is actually fairly easy to get a prenup thrown out because the criteria for making them valid is very strict and allows little room for leeway. Most people aren't aware of this fact, and they make a number of mistakes that ultimately renders the agreement and its conditions worthless. Even if a prenup is deemed valid, the judge can throw it out anyway because of judicial discretion. IMO, they are a waste of time and money.
Mycatsnuggles Posted July 13, 2013 Posted July 13, 2013 I spoke w a divorce atty and admitted to him about my affair. According to him technically the affair did not matter. But if alimony was being awarded I could expect 10% less if my affair was discussed in court. The judges in my county had a history of using this against women for both alimony and child custody. It was not on the law books (no fault state) but was a common occurrence. I do know several women who had situations where the judge determined the H earned the money and the SAHW was given limited alimony (1/3 the length of the marriage) to "get back on her feet" and become self supporting. Assests earned by H were not equally divided. If your a SAHW kinda scary.
Pyro Posted July 13, 2013 Posted July 13, 2013 But was he granted custody BECAUSE she cheated? My x-wife cheated and it didn't make one bit of difference. Now if she cheated and it could be proven she was overly promiscuous and would put the children in harms way, like having a different man over to the house every weekend, them maybe. There had to be some other factors involved as to why your dad got custody. I am willing to bet that played a factor. They both were making around the same amount of money at that time and neither one were 'crazy'. My Dad had (or so he said) plenty of evidence (phone recordings, etc.) of her infidelity. She was only seeing one guy.
JDPT Posted July 13, 2013 Posted July 13, 2013 My ex wife decided to have a baby (not with me of course) while we were in the process of getting divorced, this thankfully did not affect me emotionally or financially as I was done with her way before this.
USMCHokie Posted July 13, 2013 Posted July 13, 2013 Prenup agreements generally hold little water in court. In my experience, they get thrown out by a judge more often than they are enforced. It is actually fairly easy to get a prenup thrown out because the criteria for making them valid is very strict and allows little room for leeway. Most people aren't aware of this fact, and they make a number of mistakes that ultimately renders the agreement and its conditions worthless. Even if a prenup is deemed valid, the judge can throw it out anyway because of judicial discretion. IMO, they are a waste of time and money. And I do have a fundamental disagreement with the way the courts handle these. The prenup is on its face a contract, just like any other contract. Should courts be able to dictate which contracts should be enforceable and which should not, based on their whims and fancies? Is there a public policy reason for allowing courts to dictate the intent of the parties of the contract? And what if the prenup stipulated that all proceedings be handled in arbitration?
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