Are very bitter people, who despise the opposite gender, actually better off alone?

[hoping2heal]

That is already happening. The marriage rate has been declining for years, and a lot of this is due to men deciding that the only way to win is not to play. This is tragic because there are still a lot of quality women out there but you have to be a good judge of character. It's terrible when scumbag men marry good women and vice versa. The people who are serious about commitment need to do a better job finding each other because there are a lot of mismatched marriages.

 

Actually, it's been hypothesized in many social science circles that the declining marriage rate has to do with 2 main factors. In no particular order of importance or impact;

 

1. More women are attending college or similar trade/skill courses. Women are becoming less financially dependent on males and therefore less eager to jump into a marriage commitment.

 

2. Society has become more accepting of cohabitation than it's prior generations.

[JackDrc]

I think the biggest problem the MRAs have is their angry, combattive tone and their focus on women "winning" in divorce.

 

There are issues that are under-served in our system: men get raped, they get assaulted by their wives/partners, and these things don't get the attention they deserve.

 

BUT these issues are typically appended to less viable issues like the "unfairness" of child support... and that doesn't do the MRAs any more favors than their nasty tone (which makes them easier to dismiss).

 

Some women (not talking about you) refuse to believe that not all of them are bad. In fact, most women are great people. But 25% are rotten human beings. So are 25% of men, for that matter. When MRAs talk about this stuff, they do use too broad of a brush. I'm careful not to. My mom is part of the 75%. Her father, my grandpa was a scumbag. So is my mother's sister, who cheated on my uncle with her coworker. Scumbags should find each other and not ruin the lives of good people as they all too often do.

 

If you have consensual sex with another person when you are in an exclusive relationship, you are scum. MRAs are mad about the fact that this behavior is not held against women in divorce court. They are mad about the fact that cuckolded men have to pay for children that are not theirs. This anger is justifiable. I have no problem with men paying child support to women who are faithful or victims. I have a problem with men paying child support to cheating ex's. men should get joint custody and women should have to get a job of they don't have one and support their children. Taxpayers should make up he difference if her income isn't enough. This will make people who aren't involved angry and this behavior by cheating men and women will stop.

[ChessPieceFace]

I think the biggest problem the MRAs have is their angry, combattive tone and their focus on women "winning" in divorce.

 

And women and blacks won their rights by being polite about it, I'm sure.

[Woggle]

Extreme feminists can be just as angry and combative.

[nescafe1982]

I actually think it is feminism's best interest to be interested in boys. For every boy that gets left behind and feels screwed over the misogynist hate movements have a new recruit. It works with men as well. I know many men who are struggling in this bad economy who are starting to fall into that kind of ideology.

 

Agreed. And I think a lot of the hubbub about women's reproductive rights, the rapes that are always in the news, and abortion are connected to this.

 

There's some interesting stuff in African-American Psychology about bringing up black boys. Black young men are absolutely the more endangered group, and there have been social workers putting together youth programs rooted in Afro-centric pride, culture, heritage, that kind of thing.

 

But then, a middle-class white boy digging into his "heritage" might find some very problematic groups. So the problem has yet to be solved.

 

But I absolutely think that the last goal of feminism is to help men and boys find their new roles in society-- we're not there to do it for them, but in order for feminism to truly succeed in its goals of equality, male culture has to change too.

[Woggle]

Agreed. And I think a lot of the hubbub about women's reproductive rights, the rapes that are always in the news, and abortion are connected to this.

 

There's some interesting stuff in African-American Psychology about bringing up black boys. Black young men are absolutely the more endangered group, and there have been social workers putting together youth programs rooted in Afro-centric pride, culture, heritage, that kind of thing.

 

But then, a middle-class white boy digging into his "heritage" might find some very problematic groups. So the problem has yet to be solved.

 

But I absolutely think that the last goal of feminism is to help men and boys find their new roles in society-- we're not there to do it for them, but in order for feminism to truly succeed in its goals of equality, male culture has to change too.

 

I don't even want feminists to help. Just stop standing in our way and assuming that when we want to address family court issues, education and things of that nature that we want to take away from women. In rough times sadly people tend to turn against each other instead of working together and I think this is an example of this.

[nescafe1982]

And women and blacks won their rights by being polite about it, I'm sure.

 

Perhaps not, but men (as a collective) are fighting a very different battle. They represent the former establishment trying to temper/come to grips with recent gains made at their expense. They are not an historically oppressed group seeking alleviation from that oppression.

 

And MRAs will have to recognize this before they will see much success.

[Pompeii]

Don't you have that turned around? Women marry for $$$, men marry to be drained financially. Who's the emotional one there? Women get married because they get benefits from it, that's logical. Men get married when the institution is slanted against them, that's stupid. Men are the dopes who vow to take bullets for their wives, when women say they wouldn't do that for the man. That's men being emotional again. Men are the emotional ones, women the logical ones. Which gender punches walls when they get angry?

 

I disagree. Women don't marry because it's the "smart" thing to do. Most women don't think in the back of their minds of the benefits for them. They get married because they have a feeling to get married. For some, marriage is a business decision but if you ask women what is the number one reason for divorce, many will say "marital dissatisfaction". As in, "I have no feelings for him any longer or "he doesn't love me anymore". For men, when they externalize emotions, it tends to be in a physical display of aggression because it has been pent up for some time. That's why men seem as if they are more emotional when this happens. For women, they usually talk to their friends about their emotions, women have an emotional outlet.

 

Both sexes have the capacity for emotion but men generally think rationally more of the time than women.

 

I also think the MRA movement is BS too.

[Woggle]

The fact that Jodi Arias was convicted and not celebrated as a hero by women shows that MRAs are having some success.

[nescafe1982]

I don't even want feminists to help. Just stop standing in our way and assuming that when we want to address family court issues, education and things of that nature that we want to take away from women. In rough times sadly people tend to turn against each other instead of working together and I think this is an example of this.

 

I get the thrust of this argument, but things can never be "separate, but equal." Woman are a part of all of the issues that you mention here. That means that like it or not, men looking for a reappraisal of their rights/liberties in the educational/legal setting will have to deal with women's place too.

 

I would like to see more focus on raising our boys right though. Hell, even our girls... "feminism" has become a dirty word for young women, which is a shame because it provided the cultural base for much of their success in work/school/personal liberties in the past 100 years.

[JackDrc]

No you shouldn't but somebody who has been abused that becomes bitter is understandable. Would any rational person blame the Cleveland kidnap victims if they became misandrists?

 

I wouldn't, but when you have mainstream feminists claiming that it is impossible for women to rape men because of the anatomical differences, clearly massive double standards are at play.

 

How about the disparate punishments meted out to sex offenders? Remember mary Kay letourneau. She was a child rapist. She should have gotten the same punishment that a man would have gotten. Remember how some men, corrupted by our decayed culture, mused aloud that the victim was lucky because he got to have sex with his hot teacher? Disgusting. If he was a man raping an 11 year old girl everyone would have been calling for a life sentence and castration.

 

Does anyone on here really believe that men are not raped by women? It happened on my campus. Guy was passed out and got oral from a female acquaintance with whom he had never been physical. Other passed out men have had nonconsensual intercourse. Tell feminists about this and most will say it isn't as bad as a girl passing out and getting raped. There's a case in toronto where four 200+ women allegedly tied this guy down and raped him. He wasnt passed out. Man, the feminists have got it down to a science, in fact they probably think it is science. Take all the benefits of equality but none of the downsides.

 

Only men are required to register with Selective Service in the event of a draft. We are now in the process of opening all military combat jobs to women but they still won't be required to register with Selective Service. That is equality to your typical modern feminist. Many women don't subscribe to these radical new ideas, however.

[hoping2heal]

The fact that Jodi Arias was convicted and not celebrated as a hero by women shows that MRAs are having some success.

 

Ewww!!! As a woman I have to ask why on earth you would think she would be celebrated as a hero??

[JackDrc]

The fact that Jodi Arias was convicted and not celebrated as a hero by women shows that MRAs are having some success.

 

If Callie Anthony had been murdered by her father instead of Casey, a conviction would have been significantly more likely.

[Woggle]

I get the thrust of this argument, but things can never be "separate, but equal." Woman are a part of all of the issues that you mention here. That means that like it or not, men looking for a reappraisal of their rights/liberties in the educational/legal setting will have to deal with women's place too.

 

I would like to see more focus on raising our boys right though. Hell, even our girls... "feminism" has become a dirty word for young women, which is a shame because it provided the cultural base for much of their success in work/school/personal liberties in the past 100 years.

 

You can blame the extreme feminists who really do hate men for feminism becoming a dirty word. Young women who are not hateful are not going to embrace a movement they see as hating their fathers, brothers, friends and other men they care about. The feminism we see today is not the same feminism of yesterday.

[ChessPieceFace]

I also think the MRA movement is BS too.

 

You don't have to tell us that you think it's BS for men to have any rights. We figured that out already.

[Woggle]

Ewww!!! As a woman I have to ask why on earth you would think she would be celebrated as a hero??

 

Because she is a woman that killed a man. That is enough for some misandrists. I remember the Lorena Bobbitt case.

[JackDrc]

Extreme feminists can be just as angry and combative.

 

This. When some feminist claimed a few years back that all sex is rape and therefore all men are rapists, nothing significant happened to her. It got publicity but a not insignificant number of feminists agreed and still agree with her. In doing so they reveal the idiocy of their ideology. Here is the logic:

 

Men and women are equal, so we demand equality. That's what they say. ok, with you so far. But a woman doesn't have the same ability as a man to consent to sex, so therefore all men are rapists.

 

Your average sixth grader would realize this is garbage. It isn't scientifically testable in any fashion and some of these more extreme studies just cite back to fellow extreme studies, forming a singular ring of stupidity where common sense and reason are prohibited entry.

[crude]

I disagree. Women don't marry because it's the "smart" thing to do. Most women don't think in the back of their minds of the benefits for them. They get married because they have a feeling to get married.

 

It's not a coincidence that women date men who have more money. Women have always married up while men have married down. Money is always in the forefront of a woman's decision to latch onto a man. I think you're being naive if you think otherwise. During wartime, pilots and infantrymen who died at a staggering rate were perfect husbands for future widows who collected big bucks.

 

Prescott Evening Courier - Google News Archive Search

[JackDrc]

I get the thrust of this argument, but things can never be "separate, but equal." Woman are a part of all of the issues that you mention here. That means that like it or not, men looking for a reappraisal of their rights/liberties in the educational/legal setting will have to deal with women's place too.

 

I would like to see more focus on raising our boys right though. Hell, even our girls... "feminism" has become a dirty word for young women, which is a shame because it provided the cultural base for much of their success in work/school/personal liberties in the past 100 years.

 

Susan b Anthony and Cady Stanton would vomit if they could see where their good feminist ideas have led us. What you fail to realize I think is that the reason why boys act like such pigs can also be traced back to feminism. Smart women realize this and are rejecting modern feminism. They are realizing that try can still find professional and home success with quality men much as tie grandmothers did. If there is one benefit to feminism, it is that it has made women who would make bad wives easier to identify. If a woman believes that women still are treated worse under the law then I know she is not marriage material. None of my exes were feminists. They were all faithful. I'm on good terms with all of them.

 

Many feminists hate that women are realizing that women realize it is okay to act sexy. They often can't stomach the idea of women having one night stands because they feel these women are being abused. They think women should never use their looks to get ahead in life . In essence, feminists are anti biology and anti evolution.

[nescafe1982]

You can blame the extreme feminists who really do hate men for feminism becoming a dirty word. Young women who are not hateful are not going to embrace a movement they see as hating their fathers, brothers, friends and other men they care about. The feminism we see today is not the same feminism of yesterday.

 

Feminists are not "man haters." By their very definition, they cannot be. Feminism is about reaching legal and social equality between the genders.

 

When people talk about "extreme feminists," they aren't really speaking about feminism at all. Most importantly, those who oppose actual feminism are the ones who popularize the misuse of the term precisely to dismiss the movement's legitimate aims.

 

And in this, feminism's opponent have been largely successful. THAT is where we agree.

[Woggle]

Feminists are not "man haters." By their very definition, they cannot be. Feminism is about reaching legal and social equality between the genders.

 

When people talk about "extreme feminists," they aren't really speaking about feminism at all. Most importantly, those who oppose actual feminism are the ones who popularize the misuse of the term precisely to dismiss the movement's legitimate aims.

 

And in this, feminism's opponent have been largely successful. THAT is where we agree.

 

Many of those who call themselves feminists really do hate men. I advise to look at the comments on almost any feminist blog and you will see how they really feel about my sex. I am sorry but I respect myself too much to support something that is against me. They have done to feminism what the religious right has done to Christianity and what Al Queda has done to Islam.

 

I fully support feminists who just want an equal society though. A shame their voices are drowned out.

[nescafe1982]

Many of those who call themselves feminists really do hate men. I advise to look at the comments on almost any feminist blog and you will see how they really feel about my sex. I am sorry but I respect myself too much to support something that is against me. They have done to feminism what the religious right has done to Christianity and what Al Queda has done to Islam.

 

I fully support feminists who just want an equal society though. A shame their voices are drowned out.

 

Of course, there are a lot of embittered women (to bring this back to the thread's original theme, hehe) who find in "feminist" ideas a place to vent their own misguided ideas. Sort of like there are a lot of embittered men who find a similar sounding board in the MRA movement.

 

Sigh. I blame the internets.

[crude]

Feminists don't hate men. They want equality and I agree with them. Feminists want women to have careers so men won't have to pay alimony, they want men to be equal parents so they won't lose custody, they want both genders to register for Selective Service, they want equal jail sentences for women. It's conservatives who want the old double standards that make men second class citizens, condemned to do all the dirty work in life. For some reason, guys don't see that (illogical).

[Eggplant]

The very fact that women who commit infidelity still get a higher average share of the marital assets than non-philandering men should confirm the inequity. That is a direct result of no-fault divorce and property distribution laws. In my opinion, if infidelity is proven via evidence, the judge should grant primary custody of the children to the faithful party, regardless of their gender. The cheater would then pay child support, and if they didn't have a job at the time of divorce, they can get one, even at McDonald's. anyone who has a problem with this doesn't believe in equality. Let's punish bad behavior which leads to divorce.

 

I think it's outrageous if infidelity doesn't play a role in the judge's decision.

[ChessPieceFace]

Feminists want women to have careers so men won't have to pay alimony, they want men to be equal parents so they won't lose custody, they want both genders to register for Selective Service, they want equal jail sentences for women.

 

Show me a single feminist forum with the consensus of women pushing for the equality you claim.

 

Preposterous.

 

Women want only what they can take. None of the responsibilities and absolutely no fairness.