Queen of Sheba Posted July 11, 2013 Posted July 11, 2013 Does the WS actually believe the ridiculous statements they come out with? The illogical, the hypocritical stuff that has been listed in the other thread? Or is it more wanting to believe it or wanting their BS to believe it to make themselves feel better or make them feel like they aren't as bad as they are painted because of XYZ rubbish. They all appear to do it. Why?
compulsivedancer Posted July 11, 2013 Posted July 11, 2013 The BS always wants to know why and the WS is put on the spot. S/he doesn't have the answer and so says stupid things trying to come up with one. 1
Author Queen of Sheba Posted July 11, 2013 Author Posted July 11, 2013 The BS always wants to know why and the WS is put on the spot. S/he doesn't have the answer and so says stupid things trying to come up with one. My WS would agree with you - however, what about when not on the spot and continue to say these things?
compulsivedancer Posted July 11, 2013 Posted July 11, 2013 I'm sure it varies quite a bit. I know I went through several stages very quickly in the beginning, and I'm sure I said absolutely ridiculous things, because I was still in affair mode. Some of these things we've convinced ourselves of, others are just us bsing our BS. 1
Author Queen of Sheba Posted July 11, 2013 Author Posted July 11, 2013 I'm sure it varies quite a bit. I know I went through several stages very quickly in the beginning, and I'm sure I said absolutely ridiculous things, because I was still in affair mode. Some of these things we've convinced ourselves of, others are just us bsing our BS. When challenged and your BS showed you how stupid some of the things were and what didn't add up etc. how did you handle that? Did you keep on convincing yourself and trying to convince your BS of the absurdity or did you realise that for recon to work you had to be more honest and take on board what BS was saying? Thank you for your candour
compulsivedancer Posted July 11, 2013 Posted July 11, 2013 (edited) When challenged and your BS showed you how stupid some of the things were and what didn't add up etc. how did you handle that? Did you keep on convincing yourself and trying to convince your BS of the absurdity or did you realise that for recon to work you had to be more honest and take on board what BS was saying? Thank you for your candour You don't ask the easy questions, do you! Some things I realized were dumb as they were coming out of my mouth. Some things I knew when he pointed out. Some things I felt the need to defend even though I realized they might be kinda dumb (out of stubbornness and/or wounded pride). Some things required a lot of growth and soul-searching. And even now there are a few things that we might not see eye-to-eye on. I don't know if I'll "get" these things later, if he'll come around later, or if we'll always be at an impasse with them. A lot of what caused this for me was how insular the affair was. The OM has a long-term GF, so we literally told no one but each other. So whenever there were doubts, fears, concerns, etc, we smoothed them out with rationalizations. There was no outside source calling us on our bull! So as soon as I discussed some of these things, primarily with my husband or one particular girlfriend who has walked me through this, it was exposed as bs. Edited July 11, 2013 by compulsivedancer 2
Spark1111 Posted July 11, 2013 Posted July 11, 2013 You don't ask the easy questions, do you! Some things I realized were dumb as they were coming out of my mouth. Some things I knew when he pointed out. Some things I felt the need to defend even though I realized they might be kinda dumb (out of stubbornness and/or wounded pride). Some things required a lot of growth and soul-searching. And even now there are a few things that we might not see eye-to-eye on. I don't know if I'll "get" these things later, if he'll come around later, or if we'll always be at an impasse with them. A lot of what caused this for me was how insular the affair was. The OM has a long-term GF, so we literally told no one but each other. So whenever there were doubts, fears, concerns, etc, we smoothed them out with rationalizations. There was no outside source calling us on our bull! So as soon as I discussed some of these things, primarily with my husband or one particular girlfriend who has walked me through this, it was exposed as bs. Great post! I think as one starts sliding done that slippery slope, a ton of rationalizations get repeated as mantras to JUSTIFY actions and assuage guilty conscience, whether consciously at first and then subconsciously as the affairs and secret-keeping escalate. I think I heard them all. So nonsense spews forth after DDay as the BS hears these defensive retorts. What helped us, (when I FINALLY calmed down) was to ask open ended questions and STOPPED defending his hurtful attacks. Why did you feel I stopped loving you? How did you convince yourself I was only here for a paycheck when I was working three jobs to keep this boat afloat? Why did you never seek professional help for your depression? Why didn't you join me at counseling? I still can't believe how often you lied to me to see her. Why not tell the truth and separate from me? And then, make sure he maintains eye contact.....and listen. just listen, even if it is untrue or seems strange. DO NOT DEFEND yourself. Just listen and maybe follow up with WHY did you feel this way? Prepare for two things; a kernel of truth, or silence because even they don't know YET. 3
Author Queen of Sheba Posted July 11, 2013 Author Posted July 11, 2013 You don't ask the easy questions, do you!. Nope, known for it. Known to be challenging, but in work and personal life it gets things done. Never had challenges like this htough it has ot be said. Never had a challenge I didn't enjoy until now... A lot of what caused this for me was how insular the affair was. The OM has a long-term GF, so we literally told no one but each other. So whenever there were doubts, fears, concerns, etc, we smoothed them out with rationalizations. There was no outside source calling us on our bull! So as soon as I discussed some of these things, primarily with my husband or one particular girlfriend who has walked me through this, it was exposed as bs. What was exposed as bs? Sorry, but your insight is interesting!
compulsivedancer Posted July 14, 2013 Posted July 14, 2013 Hmm, well, the affair began as talk of an open relationship. I remember being upset, when H finally decided not to do it. I remember thinking/saying "this whole time I thought that if I ever really desired to have sex with someone else, I just had to ask. And now I find out that that isn't so. I feel like I've lost some freedom in the relationship." Entitlement and selfishness. I thought the relationship was owed to me in some way. That's the one that comes to mind most strongly. Before this had started, I had been reading a lot of erotica about threesomes (MFM) and cuckolding, and had some wrong ideas about the whole thing. My interest in cuckolding had nothing to do with humiliation. It was an interest in threesomes, trying out sex with different men, and fantasies about voyeurism. In a lot of the cuckold blog posts, the men talked about finding out that their woman was cheating on them and finding themselves aroused. I would fantasize that it would all be okay, that he would find out after the fact and realize that it was okay after all, that he didn't mind so much, or even find it a turnon. I daydreamed/fantasized about having a threesome with AP and H. Etc. Once it all came to light, I realized how untrivial it all was. I had wanted to go out and have a little harmless fun and I realized that it had been anything but harmless, and that all of the fun was at H's expense (and also OM's GF). I also realized that while it was about sex, it was also meant I lied over and over and over to my husband. And there was the relationship with the AP (If you've read my posts, you know I struggle with this). And the fantasy just wasn't fun any more. And I realize that it was exactly that - a fantasy! It was a daydream and rationalization that I had come up with to justify my interest in sleeping with another man. Also, I convinced myself that I really wanted to sleep with someone else, when really I wanted to sleep with this particular guy, which I had only half realized. A few weeks ago, I was looking through an old journal and discovered an entry from the first time I hung out with OM (way back, long before the affair), about how attracted I was to him. This was a total surprise to me. I didn't realize I'd been carrying a torch for him so long. Also, I have always looked at other guys, even while with my H. I always thought this was natural and normal. And it is to some extent. But for me, it was a way of evaluating the other options. The whole time we were married, I was keeping my options open. When my ex got married last year (5 years after I broke up with him, I cried; it was really rough. In the back of my mind, I had always kept him as my backup plan. But I didn't realize any of this until I began to talk it through with my H and with this friend, who really helped me shine a light onto my thought processes. I'm sure there were other things too, but those are the things that come to mind.
Author Queen of Sheba Posted July 24, 2013 Author Posted July 24, 2013 Liked this thread so much thought it worthy of a resurrection! "It wasn't an affair it was only sex" We worked out over 50 hours a month spent on getting sex. That'll be an affair then.
ComingInHot Posted July 24, 2013 Posted July 24, 2013 My absolute FAVORITE "stupid" & insulting line my fWH have me was, "It was an...accident." Whaaa?!!?? 1
Author Queen of Sheba Posted July 24, 2013 Author Posted July 24, 2013 My absolute FAVORITE "stupid" & insulting line my fWH have me was, "It was an...accident." Whaaa?!!?? Never have I seen a line more worthy of "Didn't know whether to laugh or cry"??? I still wish I had slapped my WS hard round the face when I found out. One of the first things out of his mouth was "It's not what you think it is". I cried, I didn't laugh again for a very long time. 1
dichotomy Posted July 24, 2013 Posted July 24, 2013 Some things I realized were dumb as they were coming out of my mouth. Some things I knew when he pointed out. Some things I felt the need to defend even though I realized they might be kinda dumb (out of stubbornness and/or wounded pride). Some things required a lot of growth and soul-searching. And even now there are a few things that we might not see eye-to-eye on. I don't know if I'll "get" these things later, if he'll come around later, or if we'll always be at an impasse with them. . This is good stuff, and you mention in another post, that you actually believed some of your own Bull. I think my WS has bits and pieces of all this - plus a very confused and flawed memory. I have noticed on even normal issues, my wife has a very warped long term memory. Her mother, my mother in law, has also mentioned this long term memory thing. So with my WS it is a mixture of usual lies, minimizing and dumb stuff that is very common....plus she actually believes some things - or remembers them very incorrectly. Unfortunately I have a memory like an elephant - every thing she every said about OM's or her past, every email, places, time lines...and now years later I am telling her what happened.
Author Queen of Sheba Posted July 24, 2013 Author Posted July 24, 2013 oops sorry this should have been on the other thread to resurrect hold on...
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