What a BH is looking (in part) during R.

[Tau]

I've read a number of posts where women have wished men would be 'open and honest' about their emotions/wants. Maybe this can provide insight to where a BH can be, 8 months out. Maybe I'm alone, maybe I'm typical. These are based on my own experiences. I hope they offer insights.

 

I know when I have sex with my WW, I imagine the AP and her together. Huge mood killer, virtually every time. A bit graphic but still relevant: Even I watch porn, I get destructive images of what they might have done together.

 

The point? You might have ruined sex for your H. His wandering eye (which apparently is pretty common) might be that he doesn't feel happy/comfortable being intimate with you. Doesn't feel at one with you. Maybe feels like he's not worth being with you. I know I feel incredibly emasculated.

 

One of the sad stories I read on here involved a double betrayal.

I can only imagine if my best friend did this to me, that alpha male sh*t would magnify all of this.

 

If you want a happier man, make him feel like an alpha male. Tell him he's got a huge d*ck. D*ck worship is, for whatever reason, a big thing to guys. Notably more so after an A. Heavily tied to insecurity. Ask to feel his muscles (if he's got any). Paw and grope him, make him feel like he's a piece of man that you MUST have. Make a point to be spontaneous and adventurous.

 

Sh*t talk that douchebag who helped create this hell. Make your H feel like you're completely on his side. He can never feel like you and your AP are a team. If R is going to work, he'll need to learn how to trust you again. Ever giving even a hint of positive emotion or defense of him does the exact opposite.

 

My W sh**talks her AP all the time. It's one of the few things she does that consistently brings a smile to my face. Sometimes it's even derailed arguments.

 

Take efforts to make your AP sound like a terrible lover. Make him sound like a weak, undesirable, disappointing little man. Remember: men want to be the alpha male. You need to represent the AP as the complete opposite of that. And he needs to genuinely believe it.

 

Be sexy around your BS. You guys dated, I'm sure you had to woo him somehow. Think back to the things you learned to do for and with him. Why'd he choose you over any other woman? A woman can bring a man's soul to life. Are you seeking to light his fire? He needs you now more than ever.

 

You'll need to win him over again, because I can guarantee you're on the outside! Now is not the time to be super wifey. Now is the time to be pursuing him. To woo him again. He may not acknowledge it at first, but over time it adds up.

 

My wife and I were virgins when we married, and after the A I spent a LOT of time worrying about things she'd do for him but not for me. New experiences created with another man, rooted in a fear that such joy can't be made with me. That I'm not good enough or capable enough to be considered.

 

As such, I have lots of insecurities about how my performance and desirability as a mate stack up. Not as a life mate. As a sexual mate. I don't worry about family and kids. I know what I offer there. I'm worried about being more exciting and desirable than HIM. I'm worried about being the Alpha male.

I'm worried about reclaiming my confidence, masculinity and desirability.

 

One last reminder, these are based on my own experiences. The interest is in hopefully providing therapeutic perspective through honesty.

[Spark1111]

Tau....great post!

[Mickey_Fitzpatrick]

I agree with everything you've posted. The problem is that most betrayeds ask their spouse to be honest with them. In order to do the things you posted - for example, to ****talk the other man - would in most cases require the cheater to lie. Sincerity is the key. The betrayed has to think the cheater is sincere in what the cheater is saying to the betrayed. No doubt the betrayed will at first be very skeptical that the cheater is just saying those things to get back together for whatever reasons (financial, reputation, but not necessarily love). I agree that it will add up over time if the cheater keeps it up.

 

I guess what I'm saying is that I agree, but the cheater has to be convincing. The betrayed can't think the cheater is just saying it to get what they want.

 

Another problem is, if the cheater doesn't feel that way, and is just saying those things, albeit convincingly, it is a way of lying to the betrayed and possibly leaves the betrayed open for another betrayal by the cheater in the future when the cheater acts on their true feelings, not the lies they are telling the betrayed just to keep them.

[BetrayedH]

I agree with everything you've posted. The problem is that most betrayeds ask their spouse to be honest with them. In order to do the things you posted - for example, to ****talk the other man - would in most cases require the cheater to lie. Sincerity is the key. The betrayed has to think the cheater is sincere in what the cheater is saying to the betrayed. No doubt the betrayed will at first be very skeptical that the cheater is just saying those things to get back together for whatever reasons (financial, reputation, but not necessarily love). I agree that it will add up over time if the cheater keeps it up.

 

I guess what I'm saying is that I agree, but the cheater has to be convincing. The betrayed can't think the cheater is just saying it to get what they want.

 

Another problem is, if the cheater doesn't feel that way, and is just saying those things, albeit convincingly, it is a way of lying to the betrayed and possibly leaves the betrayed open for another betrayal by the cheater in the future when the cheater acts on their true feelings, not the lies they are telling the betrayed just to keep them.

 

This is a sobering but very good post.

 

In the aftermath of Dday, I believe my WW stayed out of guilt and obligation. Thus, she continued lying. And the lying is what really needed to stop.

 

That said, the feelings of emasculation were also overwhelming for me. It's a terrible thing all around.

[Betrayed&Stayed]

I agree with everything you've posted. The problem is that most betrayeds ask their spouse to be honest with them. In order to do the things you posted - for example, to ****talk the other man - would in most cases require the cheater to lie. Sincerity is the key. The betrayed has to think the cheater is sincere in what the cheater is saying to the betrayed. No doubt the betrayed will at first be very skeptical that the cheater is just saying those things to get back together for whatever reasons (financial, reputation, but not necessarily love). I agree that it will add up over time if the cheater keeps it up.

 

I guess what I'm saying is that I agree, but the cheater has to be convincing. The betrayed can't think the cheater is just saying it to get what they want.

 

Another problem is, if the cheater doesn't feel that way, and is just saying those things, albeit convincingly, it is a way of lying to the betrayed and possibly leaves the betrayed open for another betrayal by the cheater in the future when the cheater acts on their true feelings, not the lies they are telling the betrayed just to keep them.

 

100% Agree. My WW said thing to minimize the affair sex and the OM's sexual prowess. She could have been telling the truth but I didn't buy it, and I still don't buy it.

 

While she was trying to make me feel better, I received it as a slap in the face. Looking back at the conversation years ago it still insults me now.

 

On the flip side: I encourage the ego stroking of the BS, but don't fake it.

[Zenstudent]

100% Agree. My WW said thing to minimize the affair sex and the OM's sexual prowess. She could have been telling the truth but I didn't buy it, and I still don't buy it.

 

While she was trying to make me feel better, I received it as a slap in the face. Looking back at the conversation years ago it still insults me now.

 

On the flip side: I encourage the ego stroking of the BS, but don't fake it.

I agree with this. I prefer the truth at any time. She doesn't have to downtalk OM or the affair rush, it only serves to insult my intelligence. And if she can't find anything positive to say about me as man and spouse, then don't - let's just part our ways of life.

[dichotomy]

AS a BH I feel your pain. Dealt with these feelings and still do.

 

However, I have to acknowledge that as mutual virgins, your wife has really tossed aside something unusually special in your marriage; I can’t begin to understand the extra pain this must have brought you.

 

Ydo need to ask for what you want and need from your wife, whatever that is. Certainly words of praise for you, and dismal of OM are important things. I agree with what your asking for now.. you should get it.

 

That said , I want to add my own personal views on the longer term for you and your wife. I agree with what others are saying here. Honesty is crucial, but it is also rare to get from a WS. Why do WS continue to lie? Because complete and total honesty may bring more pain on them and pain on you. That is the sex might have been better, he might have been better equipped, she might have done more things with him sexually, or other any number of things which would be painful to hear. Would a WS really be honest? I can only think of one or two stories her on LS where a WS told BS “ask me anything, any detail no mater how painful or personal and I will answer everything completely honestly with no holding back”.

 

Your post essentially focuses on your self-esteem, OM issues, and your comparison to OM. Wow - do I understand that! Focused on this for a darn long time (still do a little) But let’s talk about this:

 

1) Asking your wife to boost your self-esteem by saying what you wish to hear (you’re the alpha male, your better in bed, you have a bigger dick)….basically relying on your wife for your self-esteem – is a mistake. Especially if she is lying, or exaggerating for your benefit. I am not saying it is not nice for her to do so, or even if it might not be true in some ways, or even helpful (she should praise her husband) but you’re going to have to spend some hard time looking inward and working on your own self-worth. Individual counseling has helped me greatly on this – especially with a female therapist. I feel better and more confident about my sexuality and “alpha maleness” then I ever have in my life, regardless of what my wife (or anyone) really thinks about me.

 

2) Which brings me to your wife. You talked a lot about yourself and OM. Actually this is about your wife. I think it would be helpful for you to view your wife as broken – as the one who falls short – not you. Once you stop thinking “hey she cheated because of my failings or beta maleness… or because of OM’s strengths or alphaness and start thinking “My wife is the one with the weakness, SHE does not measure up to an alpha wife”. At first this brings anger, but it shift the issue away from you and how you measure up to OM – and becomes about HER not measuring up.

 

I can tell you that the combination of these two things will help you and your marriage in the long run.1) Finding your way to being self-assured and self-confident of your worth as a man and sexual being (outside of your wife or any woman) and 2) Understanding your wife has/had a weakness

 

At some point asking your wife to continuously reassure you you’re the alpha male and a stud will do the opposite in her eyes - it wil paint you as an inscure man in constant need of reassurance. But yes, this praise it is good for a while after Dday. Also this need for vlaidation from her (or others) will also leave you voulnerable should she ever slip up in anyway again - maybe even in anger says somethig mean a few years from know.

 

The focus should be on her being an “alpha wife” for you. It shouild be on her giving YOU HER best and not trying to convince you that you are giving her the best. If that makes any sense.

 

My two cents. Best wishes for your healing.

[compulsivedancer]

When H asked about sex with AP, I asked him how truthful he wanted to be. So I was 100% truthful. What that meant was that he knows we has good sex (it would be insulting to his intelligence to say otherwise - why else would I keep going back!?). But he also knows where AP failed or didn't measure up. He has been trying to override any experiences with his own prowess, and with pretty good success. He attributes (rightly, I would guess), much of the enjoyment with AP to the affair rush and draws his own conclusions from there.

 

I don't lie to him, but I make sure to appreciate him more, especially physically. I also initiate sex more and I'm more open with what I want in that arena.

 

My problem right now is that he wants me to talk bad about AP as a person, but he wants it to be truth. This is difficult because I am very conflicted, and if I bs him, he'll know. So I limit myself to statements like, "I hate him for taking you away from me," (which is true), etc, while I work on changing my state of mind.

[dichotomy]

 

My problem right now is that he wants me to talk bad about AP as a person, but he wants it to be truth. This is difficult because I am very conflicted, and if I bs him, he'll know. So I limit myself to statements like, "I hate him for taking you away from me," (which is true), etc, while I work on changing my state of mind.

 

Beyond the sexual performance, what you are saying here is what as a person made him appealing to you? And how you can re think this part of your mindset in the affair with OM?

 

Also I wonder about this perspective and focus on OM...is it about OM or about you? In other words "I hate OM for.." iOr should it more "I hate me for letting OM.." ???

 

My wife once said after some therapy "I see now that OM used me for sex !".... to which I said to my wife "yes he did for sure, but YOU used him as well for your needs"... this caused "a deer in the headlights" moment for her.

[Tau]

Wow. I feel better after reading all these. Dichotomy, it is incredibly painful to have lost our exclusivity. It was something special that we shared. It wasn't important to her though.

 

I see what you mean about the self esteem thing. Very good points. I never looked at it that way before.

 

Compulsive, sh*ttalk him. The more often you think and say these things, the more true they'll become to you. Even if they don't feel entirely true yet.

 

My W says she does this to try and destroy the bias she knows she has/had towards seeing her AP for what he was. She says it's part of 'making it up' to me. You cannot afford to think of your AP as anything but a selfish ass, and you owe your BS the effort to make it happen.

[Confused48]

My problem right now is that he wants me to talk bad about AP as a person, but he wants it to be truth.

 

I know you have heard so much about a special place in hell for you b/c you did it with H's BF. But what about that BF? What place in hell for him? Can't you as the repentant WS see that he did a pretty repugnant thing? Can't you look at him as reprehensible now? You often say you deserve the comments you get here, what about him? Let them fly, he deserves it if you do.

Edited July 10, 2013 by Confused48

[compulsivedancer]

Dichotomy, I understand that I deserve it. I feel it. I feel the wrong that I've done. I have owned up to my part, though I understand that that doesn't make up for anything. But it's difficult to put the blame on the AP. It's hard to think of bring used, even though that's what I asked him to do. It's easy to understand that I was using him. It's hard to think that maybe he didn't want ME, that he just wanted SOMEONE, even though in many ways that's how I felt about him. From what I understand about affairs, affairs are all about validation. So I guess it's still me being selfish. I want someone worthy to think I'm worthy, whether I am or not. If I'm not worthy, it changes nothing. If he's not worthy, or if he didn't really want ME, then it really was completely empty. Wow. I didn't understand that until I wrote it.

 

So I guess in order to get past it, I still have to get past my own selfish needs. I have to accept that my husband thought I was worthy (at least before), and he IS a person of value, and I have to figure out how to make myself into a person deserving of him, and a person of worth for my own sake as well.

Edited July 10, 2013 by compulsivedancer

[drifter777]

Replying to the title of this thread, I read something that summarized WHY I feel so betrayed and can never forget and completely forgive.

 

What is the infidelity?

 

The infidelity is that you took something that was supposed to be mine, which is sexual or emotional intimacy, and you gave it to somebody else. I thought that we had a special relationship, and now you have contaminated it; it doesn’t feel special any more, because you shared something that was very precious to us with someone else.

 

The fact that she contaminated our relationship, forever, is lost on her. She doesn't really hear me when I explain this fact and how it can never be undone. She cannot accept it because it is final and absolute and leaves no room for her mitigation and rationalization. Nothing my wife can ever do will wash this away.

[BetrayedH]

AS a BH I feel your pain. Dealt with these feelings and still do.

 

However, I have to acknowledge that as mutual virgins, your wife has really tossed aside something unusually special in your marriage; I can’t begin to understand the extra pain this must have brought you.

 

Ydo need to ask for what you want and need from your wife, whatever that is. Certainly words of praise for you, and dismal of OM are important things. I agree with what your asking for now.. you should get it.

 

That said , I want to add my own personal views on the longer term for you and your wife. I agree with what others are saying here. Honesty is crucial, but it is also rare to get from a WS. Why do WS continue to lie? Because complete and total honesty may bring more pain on them and pain on you. That is the sex might have been better, he might have been better equipped, she might have done more things with him sexually, or other any number of things which would be painful to hear. Would a WS really be honest? I can only think of one or two stories her on LS where a WS told BS “ask me anything, any detail no mater how painful or personal and I will answer everything completely honestly with no holding back”.

 

Your post essentially focuses on your self-esteem, OM issues, and your comparison to OM. Wow - do I understand that! Focused on this for a darn long time (still do a little) But let’s talk about this:

 

1) Asking your wife to boost your self-esteem by saying what you wish to hear (you’re the alpha male, your better in bed, you have a bigger dick)….basically relying on your wife for your self-esteem – is a mistake. Especially if she is lying, or exaggerating for your benefit. I am not saying it is not nice for her to do so, or even if it might not be true in some ways, or even helpful (she should praise her husband) but you’re going to have to spend some hard time looking inward and working on your own self-worth. Individual counseling has helped me greatly on this – especially with a female therapist. I feel better and more confident about my sexuality and “alpha maleness” then I ever have in my life, regardless of what my wife (or anyone) really thinks about me.

 

2) Which brings me to your wife. You talked a lot about yourself and OM. Actually this is about your wife. I think it would be helpful for you to view your wife as broken – as the one who falls short – not you. Once you stop thinking “hey she cheated because of my failings or beta maleness… or because of OM’s strengths or alphaness and start thinking “My wife is the one with the weakness, SHE does not measure up to an alpha wife”. At first this brings anger, but it shift the issue away from you and how you measure up to OM – and becomes about HER not measuring up.

 

I can tell you that the combination of these two things will help you and your marriage in the long run.1) Finding your way to being self-assured and self-confident of your worth as a man and sexual being (outside of your wife or any woman) and 2) Understanding your wife has/had a weakness

 

At some point asking your wife to continuously reassure you you’re the alpha male and a stud will do the opposite in her eyes - it wil paint you as an inscure man in constant need of reassurance. But yes, this praise it is good for a while after Dday. Also this need for vlaidation from her (or others) will also leave you voulnerable should she ever slip up in anyway again - maybe even in anger says somethig mean a few years from know.

 

The focus should be on her being an “alpha wife” for you. It shouild be on her giving YOU HER best and not trying to convince you that you are giving her the best. If that makes any sense.

 

My two cents. Best wishes for your healing.

 

Quoted for truth (and in hope that you read it twice).

 

Your W's affair was not about you; it was about something broken within her.

[Spark1111]

for me it has been six long years, and I KNOW WHAT I KNOW, whether he validates it or not:

 

There is not a person, true friend, loving family member on the planet that would allow you to be so self-sabotaging, so destructive to your life, legacy, reputation, family, marriage, as to let you engage in an affair..IF THEY TRULY LOVED YOU.

 

The only one who would do that is your AP, keeping it secret, for their own selfish gain.

 

Love, schmov.

 

Now all you men tend to be obsessed with the affair sex and I get it.

 

I have a secret for you. It just wasn't that good physically.

 

Women are ruled by their emotions, so emotionally she connected and thought the sex was intense, erotic, immediate......but skilled? meh, not so much.

 

Think 17, in the back of daddy's car. If you are better than that, stop obsessing about it.

[drifter777]

Quoted for truth (and in hope that you read it twice).

 

Your W's affair was not about you; it was about something broken within her.

 

I read this all the time and have no idea what it means. Are you saying that she didn't do it just to hurt OP? She just wanted to screw some other guy behind his back because it was fun and it felt good so, hey, what are you so upset about?

 

My feeling is that when you discover that your wife had or is having sex with another man ITS ALL ABOUT YOU! She is betraying you, she is stabbing you in the heart, she is emasculating you, she is destroying you. Just because she says "I didn't mean to hurt you" doesn't make it better, it just leaves the BS more confused. I mean, if I get drunk and drive my car into a kindergarten classroom and kill 25 children, exactly how much does it mean when I say "but I didn't do it to hurt anyone"?

 

When your spouse cheats for whatever reason, the damage is done to you. They have the fun, you get the sh*t. How does saying that "it wasn't about you" help any BS feel better? Its a stupid phrase that insults the BS with a ridicules rationalization.

[Zenstudent]

I read this all the time and have no idea what it means. Are you saying that she didn't do it just to hurt OP? She just wanted to screw some other guy behind his back because it was fun and it felt good so, hey, what are you so upset about?

 

My feeling is that when you discover that your wife had or is having sex with another man ITS ALL ABOUT YOU! She is betraying you, she is stabbing you in the heart, she is emasculating you, she is destroying you. Just because she says "I didn't mean to hurt you" doesn't make it better, it just leaves the BS more confused. I mean, if I get drunk and drive my car into a kindergarten classroom and kill 25 children, exactly how much does it mean when I say "but I didn't do it to hurt anyone"?

 

When your spouse cheats for whatever reason, the damage is done to you. They have the fun, you get the sh*t. How does saying that "it wasn't about you" help any BS feel better? Its a stupid phrase that insults the BS with a ridicules rationalization.

Yes, as a BS, you get to deal with the *****ty outcome, you get your more than fair share of the pain to deal with. No question about that. Allthough I think that it also needs to be acknowledged that many disloyal spouses don't realize the extend of the damage they create by their actions.

 

Moving forward, understanding the purpose and intend makes all the difference. You can't learn from mistakes and bad decissions, make amends and correct your behaviour if you haven't got any idea about why you did what you did.

 

The likelyhood of a succesfull R will IMO be very different in these two scenarios: 1. I think I'll cheat, just to teach husband a lesson and to emasculate him. And 2, I need external validation, maybe cheating is the best alternative?

 

The course of action on both sides will and should be very different. Using your example, I think it's important to realize, that the reason you caused the death of 25 children was, that you thought you could drive safely while drunk, not that you thought you should kill somebody. It's two different mindsets and needs to be adressed as such if you want to correct your behaviour for the future.

 

So, I agree, in most cases, it really isn't about you (me), the BS. You just happened to get your share of the sandwich you didn't ask for. Whether fair or not.

[AbeNormal]

...

 

My feeling is that when you discover that your wife had or is having sex with another man ITS ALL ABOUT YOU! She is betraying you, she is stabbing you in the heart, she is emasculating you, she is destroying you.

 

...

 

When your spouse cheats for whatever reason, the damage is done to you. They have the fun, you get the sh*t. How does saying that "it wasn't about you" help any BS feel better? Its a stupid phrase that insults the BS with a ridicules rationalization.

 

Drifter,

 

BetrayedH is a very thoughtful person, and I think his point is valid. He was (as I think you know) just saying that it is reflection upon the cheater (their own deficits in character, etc. - perhaps as amplified by the particulars of the situation) - rather than the person they cheated on.

 

Still, I understand your angst/pain. It really doesn't go away (at least for a man, as best I can tell) - does it? Wish it would.

 

Anyway, I'm not sure I remember your story in (reasonably accurate) detail. I did read all of your early posts (including those on a thread that mysteriously disappeared). If I recall correctly, you were very young (in your 20's) when you decided to divorce your wife. You had a young child. You had separated from your wife. She went on vacation with her family and came back with a "slug" of a man. We know that he was a "slug" because what type of decent guy would travel across the country to move in with someone he just met? (i.e. he couldn't have had a serious job/career, intent, etc.)

 

It seems for many years your wife was in denial about her actions. But maybe you have been as well. What a chaotic situation it must be for a young mother to think that she will be alone ... her behaviour may be inexcusable to you - but might not seem so crazy (or unusual) to an outside observer. Since it was not consistent with her general character - she then had to "rationalize" and perhaps "compartmentalize" what she did. But man, if I understand the situation (again, I am lazy and won't go back and search those posts) I think you need to look beyond your navel.

 

She is not that woman from 30 years ago. As, I presume, you are not that man who thought about separating from his family when he had a young child.

 

Might it be possible to find forgiveness and reconciliation - and peace for the future? (Believe me man, I'm not preaching here - I'm asking myself the same type of questions.)

 

I don't know. Personally, I vacillate between thoughts of reconciliation/peace etc. and getting away and "showing her" that I can "get it on" without her.

 

Sorry if this seems like a "diatribe" - I'm struggling with my own questions/demons.

 

Just thought I would throw it out there.

 

Best wishes.

Edited July 11, 2013 by AbeNormal

[compulsivedancer]

My BS thought at first that me cheating was a reflection on his failings as a husband. He kept asking me what he had done wrong, and then was completely bewildered when I told him "nothing." He wanted to know everything about sex with AP because he figured AP must have done something in bed that was better than him. Etc.

 

It was at least a month or two before he accepted that I am the broken one, that the A was about MY selfish choices and not about him. I think he still doesn't fully believe it, but it's true. As I've heard elsewhere on this forum, our marriage problems (which were pretty minor) are both our faults, but my choice to have an affair was 100% on me.

[BetrayedH]

I read this all the time and have no idea what it means. Are you saying that she didn't do it just to hurt OP? She just wanted to screw some other guy behind his back because it was fun and it felt good so, hey, what are you so upset about?

 

My feeling is that when you discover that your wife had or is having sex with another man ITS ALL ABOUT YOU! She is betraying you, she is stabbing you in the heart, she is emasculating you, she is destroying you. Just because she says "I didn't mean to hurt you" doesn't make it better, it just leaves the BS more confused. I mean, if I get drunk and drive my car into a kindergarten classroom and kill 25 children, exactly how much does it mean when I say "but I didn't do it to hurt anyone"?

 

When your spouse cheats for whatever reason, the damage is done to you. They have the fun, you get the sh*t. How does saying that "it wasn't about you" help any BS feel better? Its a stupid phrase that insults the BS with a ridicules rationalization.

 

The phrase, "It wasn't about you," isn't meant as a justification or rationalization at all. It has nothing to do with excusing the wayward's behavior and it has nothing to do with forgiveness. Frankly, I don't care if anyone chooses not to excuse or forgive their wayward. In my view, having an affair isn't a defensible position and any wayward that wants to justify it hasn't got a leg to stand on.

 

But far too many betrayed spouses internalize an affair as a personal rejection of them. They somehow think they must not be manly enough or that they failed as a spouse. They beat themselves up and feel emasculated. My point is, that thinking is prevalent but backwards. I don't think many waywards are thinking about their betrayed spouse during an affair. If anything, they compartmentalize and shove those thoughts away. They may just feel entitled to "more." Or they were just too lazy to solve their problems. They were thinking of themselves and taking care of their own "needs." They avoided conflict because they lacked the courage to deal with their partner. Of course, all waywards are somewhat unique but in my view, the wayward was either too entitled, too conflict-avoidant, or too needy for any one person to satisfy.

 

So why does a BS beat themselves up so badly for the wayward's broken thought processes and actions? Why does a betrayed spouse's personal ego get so bruised? We (BSs) make an affair much more about us than we should.

 

If the OP is desperate for his wayward wife to stroke his ego, I think he is taking too much of the blame on himself and internalizing it more than he should and that he should stop doing that. This was about something screwed up with her, not with him.

 

Forgiveness of his wife is another subject altogether and a highly personal one.

[ISayWhoa]

I agree with the OP 100%. Great post. I can tell you right now, if my wife were to to that when I got home, I can safely say I'd stay with her. It would take alot to pull that off, but then again, men are not too hard to engage in fantasy. But I'd say he nailed it.

[Steen719]

So, I know this is just my opinion and I can't speak for all women of course, but I would say many of my friends feel this way. I would take BH, Drifter, Ninja's H, Steadfast, etc. - all of you good, honest men over a big freakin d*ck any day of the week (not to say you don't have one ). I think 2 people can learn to have great sex lives together and make it exciting, but you cannot buy an honest and honorable man. They are not a dime a dozen. Believe me, I have lived long enough in this world to know that. You men are what good women want - not some Lothario. I would never, ever, ever be with a man who cheated (again)...who wants someone like that? Anyone can cheat -now those are a dime a dozen. You could have, I could have and we did not. Try not to value yourself by what you think your WW or XWW thinks. Remember who they were with - their OM, someone who cheats with another man's wife and realize that their opinion may not really mean so much anyway. This is just my opinion and therefore subject to criticism, but it is my story and i am sticking to it!

[Confused48]

 

It was at least a month or two before he accepted that I am the broken one, that the A was about MY selfish choices and not about him. I think he still doesn't fully believe it, but it's true. As I've heard elsewhere on this forum, our marriage problems (which were pretty minor) are both our faults, but my choice to have an affair was 100% on me.

 

This is great to see this. Not that I'm able to say my marriage was one like yours. My marriage did/does have serious problems that predate the A. However, it drives me nuts when the serial cheating OW's and OM's and WS's generally state that, "Affairs don't happen in happy marriages." As BS we can't really refute that. Thanks for refuting that for us! (You are not the first but the more the better!)

[Confused48]

I agree with the OP 100%. Great post. I can tell you right now, if my wife were to to that when I got home, I can safely say I'd stay with her. It would take alot to pull that off, but then again, men are not too hard to engage in fantasy. But I'd say he nailed it.

 

I'm too lazy to re-read your whole threat Whoa, but didn't your wife go so far as to get on her knees and beg you? I'm not saying you should take her back but I am going to say if you wanted what the OP wants, you would get it.

[Tau]

"So I guess it's still me being selfish. I want someone worthy to think I'm worthy, whether I am or not. If I'm not worthy, it changes nothing. If he's not worthy, or if he didn't really want ME, then it really was completely empty. Wow. I didn't understand that until I wrote it."

 

Trust me, I think everyone will agree your AP is NOT a person of worth. From how it reads, you're just now accepting that you were a very likely a sex object. Congratulations. You're seeing clearer now. You're seeing a more realistic perspective.

 

A relationship that's completely empty cannot validate you. So stop looking for it to, stop pretending like it ever can.

 

"So I guess in order to get past it, I still have to get past my own selfish needs. I have to accept that my husband thought I was worthy (at least before), and he IS a person of value, and I have to figure out how to make myself into a person deserving of him, and a person of worth for my own sake as well."

 

And now you know what you have to do. Now that you know, if you don't put your all into it, you're lying to and cheating your BS all over again. Don't make him waste more of his life with an empty/insincere W.

 

"There is not a person, true friend, loving family member on the planet that would allow you to be so self-sabotaging, so destructive to your life, legacy, reputation, family, marriage, as to let you engage in an affair..IF THEY TRULY LOVED YOU."

 

Amen.

 

I've told my wife numerous times this same thing. It's annoying and frustrating that my WW only believes so much of what I say about this. It's like she expects a biased opinion, so she only takes my perspective so seriously. Even though shes clearly got her own bias. But then she'll accept the advice of strangers as more valid. She's thinking about seeing a counselor, maybe that'll help.

 

"Women are ruled by their emotions, so emotionally she connected and thought the sex was intense, erotic, immediate......but skilled? meh, not so much.

 

Think 17, in the back of daddy's car."

 

Hehehe. Spark, thank you. That actually helps a lot.