curly Posted October 21, 2004 Posted October 21, 2004 I have been involved with a MM for 5 months. In addition to that issue, he's 15 years my senior. He's been married for 32 years. She got pregnant at 19 and they got married. He says he's regretted ever since. However, they had 2 more children. He has told friends for many years that as soon as the youngest goes to college, he's leaving. Well, she is in her sophomore year at school and he's still there. We used to work together. The affair began when I was leaving the job. He lead me to believe that he was separated from the W. I believed. I realized the truth shortly thereafter and told him to take a hike. He kept coming back and I was in pretty deep at that point. The beginning of the affair was, of course, magic. I had never felt like that before. So over the summer, he has asked me to wait until his daughter goes back to school and he will move out. He told the W and she convinced him to try counseling. Then he waffled and said no, counseling was appropriate. He told her he was leaving, found an apartment, made so many promises to me... Then his wife told the middle daughter that he was leaving. She freaked out and MM freaked out. Told me he could not move out. I know this is very vague and I'm only hitting on the highlights. I've been reading posts on this forum for many months just trying to figure out how to handle this. I've never felt like this before with anyone. I've also never thought for an instance I could get into this situation. It is truly hell. So, now he's agreed to 30 days of counseling while telling me he's just going through the motions. He doesn't believe that counseling will help but he wants to apease the family before making the move to end the marriage. He doesn't want to be the heavy in all of this. I'm well aware of all the pitfalls in this scenario. I know that what I'm doing is wrong and damaging to me. However, I can't seem to find the courage or conviction to say goodbye to this man. He has become my best friend. He doesn't hold anything back from me (yes, that I know of...). We can speak on the phone or in person for hours about so many things. He has told me he believes I am his future. I am his match. The person he never thought he would meet. We have tried many, many times to have no cnotact and one of us just breaks down. It feels so right when we're together. So natural. But at this point when he leaves, I get so upset. I'm so tired of feeling like the "secret" in his life. So I guess this post is to hear some words of wisdom. No comdemnation, please. I do that for myself. How do you walk through the flames? How do you walk away from someone you love?
netrie Posted October 21, 2004 Posted October 21, 2004 Originally posted by curly ...He says he's regretted ever since. However, they had 2 more children. QUOTE] What a LOSER! And A LIAR. If you have any self-respect left, get away from this loser. You will go down with him. If you are that bored---buy a drama book. But stay out of other people's dramas... good luck Netalia
Quilly Posted October 21, 2004 Posted October 21, 2004 You know MM better than anyone here... is he worth another 30 days of living in limbo? If so, then tell him to stay in touch but that you can't be with him until he moves out and the divorce is under way. Provide him the emotional support he needs, but that's it. If he's really just going through the motions and he really wants to be with you... then it will happen. Good luck.
Nocturnalkitee Posted October 22, 2004 Posted October 22, 2004 Curly Your MM has no intention of ever leaving his wife. It will be hard to discontinue this relationship, but I feel you need to. When he leaves you and go home he is not unhappy, but you are. How can he be your best friend when he has been lying to you from the beginning?
Pocky Posted October 22, 2004 Posted October 22, 2004 "He has become my best friend. He doesn't hold anything back from me (yes, that I know of...). We can speak on the phone or in person for hours about so many things. He has told me he believes I am his future. I am his match. The person he never thought he would meet." He's holding quite a lot back if he's still married to another women while he professes that you're his future. If you really are his future, don't you think he would have left by now? If you really want to know what he intends to do, then tell him you don't want to have any contact with him until he moves out of his house. As your best-friend, he's not treating you with the respect you need. If he really feels he needs to go through the motions, so to speak, then let him go through the motions without you in the picture. If he truly wants to be with you he'll leave his relationship - and in keeping with you being understanding and patient you give him the time to get everything in order to leave. So there's your easy answer - tell him how you feel, tell him you're giving him time to work things out and that you don't want to talk anymore until he's moved out and in his own place.
destinedtobealone Posted October 23, 2004 Posted October 23, 2004 Curly, Your's is the closest I've seen to my own story so far. This is why I came to this sight, to see if there is anyone else like me, and how they are managing. Like you, I'm involved with an older, married man. After a very emotionally and verbally abusive marriage of 11 years, I finally managed to get out of a bad relationship, only to end up in another one. I didn't set out to find a married man, in fact I never thought I would be in this position. I watched my mother struggle with this problem when I was young after her divorce. This is usually how it happens: You meet someone who seems very charming. At first you're not interested, but he doesn't give up easily. Eventually, he convinces you to give him a chance. In my case, he never came out and said was presently divorced, he just used our casual conversation, while at the Gym, to lead me to "think" he was divorced. Men can be very clever with their words. I was vulnerable. These men see that vulnerability. They see recently divorced women as easy targets. We're vulnerable and gullible. We're inexperienced in the single world and we trust too easily. We desperately want to find someone who will give us the love and attention we missed out on in our marriage. Once I found out he was married, I tried to break it off. He would humiliate himself in his efforts to get me back every time I broke it off. He would cry outside by bedroom window. He would call my family and tell them he was worried about me. He would call me at work, show up at my home, show up at my work, whatever it took to force me into a confrontation, because he knew that he could always convince me to take him back, if he could just get me to see him. Over and over he has promised to leave his wife, yet there is always a reason why it's not a good time. First his youngest daughter was in college. Then she graduated, and there was another excuse. There's always an excuse. He's in a situation where his wife and family know about me. They even allow it. As long as he keeps me out of their family time and as long as they don't have to give up their lifestyle. What real motivation does he have to leave? Only me. What motivation does he have to stay? Lots. He has a wife that allows him to have an affair, he has a very nice home, which he'd have to give up, and put his mother, who also lives with him and is very elderly, out in the street. Every sensible part of my being tells me he lies every time he tells me he'll do anything not to lose me. But he's always so sincere, when he begs me to give him another chance, that love can conquor anything. Yet everytime I agree, it seems he's forgetten every promise he made me within weeks, and things are back to the way they were. This has gone on for 3 years. In that time, I'm afraid I've taught my son to lie. He tells everyone the man is my "friend" even though I know he knows better. But I encourage it, because I'm embarrassed. I've given up most of my friendships because I'm tired of the ones who know telling me "I told you so" every time he doesn't leave his wife after telling me he will, and I'm ashamed to tell any new friends of what an idiot I am. Like you, I don't want to hear judgments, there is nothing negative anyone can tell me that I haven't already told myself a million times. I just want some support from someone who knows what it's like. I want some advice on how to get out of this kind of relationship. When you know it's bad for you, but you love them and you feel loved like never before. When everytime you try, they use every means available to them to break down your defenses, and they promise you everything. Originally posted by curly I have been involved with a MM for 5 months. In addition to that issue, he's 15 years my senior. He's been married for 32 years. She got pregnant at 19 and they got married. He says he's regretted ever since. However, they had 2 more children. He has told friends for many years that as soon as the youngest goes to college, he's leaving. Well, she is in her sophomore year at school and he's still there. We used to work together. The affair began when I was leaving the job. He lead me to believe that he was separated from the W. I believed. I realized the truth shortly thereafter and told him to take a hike. He kept coming back and I was in pretty deep at that point. The beginning of the affair was, of course, magic. I had never felt like that before. So over the summer, he has asked me to wait until his daughter goes back to school and he will move out. He told the W and she convinced him to try counseling. Then he waffled and said no, counseling was appropriate. He told her he was leaving, found an apartment, made so many promises to me... Then his wife told the middle daughter that he was leaving. She freaked out and MM freaked out. Told me he could not move out. I know this is very vague and I'm only hitting on the highlights. I've been reading posts on this forum for many months just trying to figure out how to handle this. I've never felt like this before with anyone. I've also never thought for an instance I could get into this situation. It is truly hell. So, now he's agreed to 30 days of counseling while telling me he's just going through the motions. He doesn't believe that counseling will help but he wants to apease the family before making the move to end the marriage. He doesn't want to be the heavy in all of this. I'm well aware of all the pitfalls in this scenario. I know that what I'm doing is wrong and damaging to me. However, I can't seem to find the courage or conviction to say goodbye to this man. He has become my best friend. He doesn't hold anything back from me (yes, that I know of...). We can speak on the phone or in person for hours about so many things. He has told me he believes I am his future. I am his match. The person he never thought he would meet. We have tried many, many times to have no cnotact and one of us just breaks down. It feels so right when we're together. So natural. But at this point when he leaves, I get so upset. I'm so tired of feeling like the "secret" in his life. So I guess this post is to hear some words of wisdom. No comdemnation, please. I do that for myself. How do you walk through the flames? How do you walk away from someone you love?
Author curly Posted October 26, 2004 Author Posted October 26, 2004 Thanks everyone for all your replies. Some were helpful. Others--not so much. It seems like some posters are just not very empathetic to the situation. Perhaps have never been there themselves? It's easy to say I would never.... but once you're caught up in the situation, you realize it was not intended, it just happened. To Destinedtobealone... Your situation sounds very difficult. That's a very long time to be in a relationship with a MM. I can't believe that you are not utterly exhausted by the emotions. I suppose you will not be able to end the relationship until you decide for yourself. But three years is a long time to wait. It doesn't sound like he's going to leave. What I've been able to surmise is that the OW/OM & MM/MW do truly develop genuine feelings for each other. I don't discount the feelings as not in the real world. Some relationships might only exist in that lustful, adrenaline pumping stage we all knew in the beginning. But after time, it becomes something else. It's in that time, where the lovers realize their feelings for each other that the married person must make a choice. Again, IMO, the marriage rarely ends. I don't think it's because of a lack of love or concern for the OW/OM. Just a fear of the change in life. Not many people are capable of embracing change. It's very hard. Another reason the OW/OM can't let go. We found something very special. But is it really our's? Only if it comes to us free and clear. I heard about a book called "This Affair is Over.." or something close to that. I'm considering purchasing it. Anyone have an opinions?
Quilly Posted October 26, 2004 Posted October 26, 2004 Curly, You are so right... the fear of change as well as the fear of losing what they already have and how people may perceive them differently is too much for some. How else can you rationalize chosing to remain in an unfulfilling marriage rather than taking a chance to be with someone you love. At least that's how I see it, but I'm one of those persons that thinks it's worth the risk. Regarding the book... yes, I heard about it and purchased it (This Affair is Over!!! by Nanette Miner and Sandi Terri, BVC Publishing, 56 pages, US $6.95). I guess it didn't provide me with any grand revelations or easy solutions. Then again, it is a book, what did I expect? What is gives you are stories and statistics related to a study they completed on affairs. It talks about how people rationalize having an affair, the excuses used by MM/MW in not leaving the marriage, the few success stories, and the reality of how many don't succeed, and finally ten steps to getting your life back in order. These steps are basically to accept it's over, to stop talking with MM/MW, to not think about MM/MW, and to move on. I read it once and haven't gone back to it again. It can't help you to deal with the struggles that you will face in truly accepting that it's over or in giving up hope that MM/MW will change their mind, it won't tell you how to make yourself fall out of love or be there for you when you fail at no contact. I find having close friends to talk to and this forum gives me the support I need, but obviously everyone's needs are different. You have to find what works for you. Good luck.
destinedtobealone Posted October 28, 2004 Posted October 28, 2004 It's been nearly a week since I came onto this site and posted my story in repy to Curly's. I haven't talked to the MM in a little over a week. I think I've pushed the envelope further than ever with my last ultimatum. I decided to send him an email, which I knew his wife would read, because they only have the one computer, and he's rarely on it. I've always suspected that he wasn't telling me the whole truth, even though his wife called me herself shortly after I discovered he was married to tell me that he loved me. I realized that she was trying to manipulate me, but she made it clear that she knew about me and they had discussed me often. In fact, she called me often in the beginning, as if she wanted to be my friend. It freaked me out so much that I moved to another town and avoided ever calling his home, or answering her calls. My situation is so wierd, and probably unique in a lot of ways, but essentially, it is still the MM situation, where I'm expected to wait for a man who takes his sweet time getting his life in order. The hardest part for me is avoiding him. Everytime I resolve myself to the fact that I'm better off without him, and that I will only be truly happy if I break it off, as painful as that is, he starts calling, or showing up at my work or home. I'm hoping that my long, insulting and very revealing email caused enough trouble and embarrassment with his family, that he'll respect my wishes this time and leave me alone. A week is the longest he's ever gone before he started stalking me again. Every time the phone rings my heart skips a beat. I'm hoping it's not him, yet when it's not, I'm disappointed. I want him to pine for me. I want him to miss me, and I want him to suffer. Is that so terrible? As far as books go, I just purchased the ever so popular book "He's just not that into you." I find it somewhat helpful. Every time I start missing him, I read a few lines I've highlighed in the book, especially in the chapter about married men, and it helps me to remember what a jerk he is, and that I deserve better. I especially like the line, "don't waste your pretty."
doggydog Posted November 19, 2004 Posted November 19, 2004 After reading thru these posts I want to shake all the OW and say, "Why do you have to marry the MM". It seems like everyone is really happily in love with their MM yet would let them go because they want to get married to them. I gave my MM an exit years ago but he wouldn't take it.....instead I was informed that he wasn't getting divorced...he couldn't. My decision was to accept that I wasn't ever going to be married to him and do I want to life the rest of my life alone yet still have him in my LDR MM love affair. I decided to keep him in my life (talk 3x day ) and go on mini vacations with him. At the same time, I do have two other men in my life who I see for sex only and male companionship. These men know about my MM and I was engaged to one of them years ago and never lost contact even though he was married (still saw him) and the other who was never married I've known even before my MM and the sex is fantastic with him. One of these guys I make him give me money too....just because I want to and know he will pay to see me....maybe you think I'm acting like a wh____re. So be it....nothing is for FREE. Especially not ME....or my BODY and no one fully has my HEART.... Getting back to the subject....WHY MARRY...you don't have all the garbage of everyday answering your whereabouts, money issues, emotional trauma when he's pissed.....just live your life without him being in your "space" full time. Now am I the only one who feels this way? Have yet to read anyone's posts who are like mine...or am I alone with this lifestyle..I'd love to read your thoughts. Until then I guess I am forced to read over and over the OW complaining about their MM not leaving their W's for them. Sad that us OW should even have these thoughts. Will he or will he not......Pull the plug...or light the fire...
2Confuzed Posted November 19, 2004 Posted November 19, 2004 Doggydog, That's a very interesting post. I would have to guess and say that most women dream of finding that one special person, getting married and having kids. The "happily ever after" kind of scenario. I think most of us were raised that way. There are times when I wish I could live the lifestyle you do. I have tried, but it only keeps me satisified for a short time. If you can honestly say that the lifestyle you live is emotionally fullfilling, then good for you. I guess I am a hopeless romantic. I need to feel special and loved by the one person who I love. I can't see how getting bits and pieces of your MM can make you happy. I think that you settled for less than what you deserve. That is why most of us OW try to end our relationships. We want to be that "special someone," we don't want to share the love of ours lives with anyone else.
Maria46 Posted November 20, 2004 Posted November 20, 2004 I know how you feel. In my first marriage, my husband was always out with other women. He would never admit, but I knew. I ended up having an affair with my best friend who was married and he worked with me. During this time, I finally went to counseling to try to get my head on straight. My MM stayed with his wife and I divorced my husband which I should have done years before. MM and I stayed best friends. Years later, MM divorced and wanted to get together with me, but I was in a different relationship. It seemed like for the following 13 years, one of us was in a relationship when the other wasn't, but we had always continued our friendship. When we were finally both out of relationships, we tried to start over. It never worked out. What we had so many years ago, was lust and wanting companionship. We will always be best friends and there will never be anything else. Neither of our partners know about our history together. Did I regret the affair? I really can't say I did. But it didn't solve any of my problems at the time. My husband and I should have split up many years before. When I starting seeing a counselor, I learned to make a decision about my happiness. If you are in a relationship where you are not happy, try to seek counseling or just get out of the relationship. Don't think you have to find someone else to love you before you leave the bad relationship. Get your head on straight and try to find what you really need in a relationship to make you happy. An affair is just a diversion from your real problems. Diversions do not last long.
DoggyDog Posted November 22, 2004 Posted November 22, 2004 Just here to try and help these OW in pain. We have so many different lifestyles and sharing some of our life experiences does help others perceive their situations as not hopeless...Especially when there is so much heartache involved. You can't think clearly....I didn't mean to say my situation is "wonderful"...but it is "content". and I got to this point after being married for 6 yrs and my husband left me for the OW whom he got pregnant and she already had two kids. I was very naive and because of this, I never saw the signs of what was happening with us. This is why my life is what it is with MEN...I don't trust and probably never will, no matter how much someone loves me....not to say I don't love them back but TRUST is a No No. In fact Thanksgiving is when it happened....he left me alone for the day after telling me not to make plans and never came back home...There I was alone and crying....pain is unexplainable and I never found out til after our divorce that that day he was pigging out with his OW, her kids and my mother in laws...Talk about Turkeys.....that was the Coldest Turkey Day of My Life and I can never forget it. I have much experience to share with anyone on these forums that could help them get thru many different and difficult times...Friends think I should write a book, but knowing I can write on here is much better and a safer way to hide my identity. OW, W, OGF, GF, Cheater...I've been all and am still a Survivor. So when you feel no one cares.....I Do and if I come upon a thread or post that I can give some feedback and heart warming thoughts...well then you will see me posting....I just have a hard time trying to find all the different things I get into. The MM/OW is a big one I like reading....also like the LDR site. Take Care All and Happy Thanksgiving DoggyDog
DoggyDog Posted November 29, 2004 Posted November 29, 2004 Its Over...last week my MM decided I deserve more..that he couldn't commit to me. Day before Tksgvg...I spoke quietly and though I was dying inside I told him that we will part. So to all the OW...my life is pretty much in pain right now...I have NC with him but know that he has called..I'm trying real hard to not breakdown....as for how the days ahead will go...I don't know...just trying to get thru today...I don't expect sympathy but if there is a kind word for me now, I really could use it. I've posted for myself really...it helps alot. Take care, DD
whichwayisup Posted November 29, 2004 Posted November 29, 2004 Hang in there baby. I can feel that pain coming across your words...Doesn't matter what I think or what anybody else thinks...Just know we all understand the loss and heartache of any relationship ending. It's sort of like a death in the family. Just take it one day at a time...Or one hour at a time. Keep busy, work on things that make YOU feel good and happy. Pamper yourself, surround yourself with friends and family. Talk about it too, cry and write down how you are feeling. It will take a while but eventually it will get better...Won't hurt as much. Maybe talk to a therapist, nothing wrong with that either. Could help you cope and deal with all the feelings and saddness of your loss. All the best! WWIU
Owl Posted November 29, 2004 Posted November 29, 2004 Originally posted by doggydog ... My decision was to accept that I wasn't ever going to be married to him and do I want to life the rest of my life alone yet still have him in my LDR MM love affair. I decided to keep him in my life (talk 3x day ) and go on mini vacations with him. At the same time, I do have two other men in my life who I see for sex only and male companionship. These men know about my MM and I was engaged to one of them years ago and never lost contact even though he was married (still saw him) and the other who was never married I've known even before my MM and the sex is fantastic with him. One of these guys I make him give me money too....just because I want to and know he will pay to see me....maybe you think I'm acting like a wh____re. So be it....nothing is for FREE. Especially not ME....or my BODY and no one fully has my HEART.... Doggy- This is going to sound cruel, but I don't know any other way to phrase it... Based on the quote above, I wonder how you can be hurt or shocked by the MM suddenly deciding to end it with you? Regardless...all you can do is drive on. You're hurting, even if I can't understand your pain. The advice Whichway provided is good...take care of yourself and try to distance yourself from the pain until it gets to a point where you can handle it.
DoggyDog Posted November 30, 2004 Posted November 30, 2004 WWIU, Thank you for your kind words...tomorrow will be 1 wk NC...Did manage thru Tksgvg with my sisters in laws...since I have no family here...which was nice of them to include me. What is really hard is I have no where to go...no friends I hang with....and my family consists of one here and she has her own family. My sister in another state did call me cause she was worried since my other sister told her about my breakup with MM. 15+ yrs is so long to forget. I'm trying real hard not to cry...I figured I did enough of that a few months ago to last a lifetime. What I don't understand is why everyone I love ends up hurtiing me....I think it's because I'm picking the wrong ones or something.....But all have cheated on me and I'm always left wondering "Why"...does that happen to just me...I doubt it after reading many posts and believe me you guys are helping me....just like a thereapist....I can vent my feeling and be heard and get feedback...this is good for me since I don't have money for a therapist....I'm by myself and have always been the so called "strong one" in the family...but truly I'm not.....I feel so insecure with my life and myself. I have to close for now because I don't have a computer except for work....maybe I'll have more posts for tomorrow for me.....Love yas, DD
fanou22 Posted December 1, 2004 Posted December 1, 2004 DD, I believe the previous experiences (especially the bad ones) that we have in our lives are what propell us to accept having an affair with a MM. MM provides the OW with a feeling of acceptance. He wards off the loneliness that engulfs the OW at that stage. It is very hard not have family close by. They provide the best support system. Keeping yourslef busy is the best remedy for the pain you are feeling. Start finding your true self. Not long ago I read a book called "I am ok, you're ok". It helped a lot understanding what was happening to me.
DoggyDog Posted December 1, 2004 Posted December 1, 2004 I do have that book plus many others and loved reading them....it's been years but they do help to some extent...my problem was I started to get too deep .....and analyzed everything in my life. In fact, that's why I stopped reading them, the ole saying "do everything by the book" literally took a toll on me....Even my family told me to stop reading them...So I have... I'm a very intense soul.....call it "psychic" as I've been told years ago by a couple of fortune tellers....Sometimes I scare myself...Anyway, today is one more day closer to tomorrow with still thoughts of MM....wondering if he is thinking of me too. Part of me wants to believe that he CAN'T live without me....I really think I'm all that!!! NO....but I thought I'd just give myself a "boost".....LOL See, I'm getting my sense of humor back a little..
fanou22 Posted December 1, 2004 Posted December 1, 2004 Great that you are getting your sense of humor back. I felt the same way when I started reading that book. By the time I was done with the second chapter, I was convinced that I needed a psychologist. Then one day I came to the realization of "hey I want to being out my inner child out". I realized that the child in me had been put away that is why I was not happy with my life. I felt sad and depressed all the time. Now that I started bringing out the child, I am nore happy and content with my life. I am trying to make the best out of it. I changed my attitude from nagging all the time to accepting things as they are. Only you can make yourself happy. It is amazing what smiling does.
lynnered Posted December 25, 2004 Posted December 25, 2004 i think you need to just be strong ive been with a married man 3 1/2 years known him for 5 yrs i am so miserable i wish i would have walked away no wait never laid down with him ive tried to break up with him serveral times he will agree that he will call when he becomes separted he calls a month later telling me it will be soon my thing is i know what i need to do but doing it is so hard i am going to do it again for good save yourself a lot of heartache it would have been less painful to break up after 5months then 3 1/2 years ive wasted a lot of time crying over this guy and the holidays are the worst do whats best for u
Guest Posted December 25, 2004 Posted December 25, 2004 Originally posted by Quilly You know MM better than anyone here... is he worth another 30 days of living in limbo? If so, then tell him to stay in touch but that you can't be with him until he moves out and the divorce is under way. Provide him the emotional support he needs, but that's it. If he's really just going through the motions and he really wants to be with you... then it will happen. Good luck. Best advice I've seen all day.
2Confuzed Posted December 27, 2004 Posted December 27, 2004 DD, I'm sorry to hear what you are going through. I didn't realize (from your first post) what you had been going through. I know how tough it is. WWIU is right, it does feel as if someone has died. It is a horrible feeling and I wish you the best of luck with coping in this difficult time. From reading a few of your posts, I think some therapy would do you good. It sounds like you have had some bad luck with men and the past does effect how you act, think, and the choices you make. Good luck and remember, "this too shall pass"
Zoot Posted December 27, 2004 Posted December 27, 2004 Believing a MM will leave his wife is sort of like the lottery. It's okay to dream....but don't bank on it...or you'll find yourself homeless. Sure, there are cirumstances and reasons and feelings and all sorts of stuff.....but in the end....he'll be miserable with her while you are miserable alone. He's not leaving. That would take too much guts. If he actually HAD any - he would've been divorced when you met instead of whining at the water cooler like a great big baby who can't find his pacifier. It's a lost cause.
Miffy Posted January 2, 2005 Posted January 2, 2005 How to mend a broken heart by Paul McKenna is excellent - strongly recommend - explains why we crave people and techniques to get them out of your life, for anyone not just affairs but very good.
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